I like Dean. But I wish he would be outrageous with proveables...

[cyberpj]

I agree - it IS time to start making outrageous statements about the NeoCon Republicans but it doesn't help us to be labeling the entire Republican Party the way he did.

Name calling and alienating non-white, non-evangelical Repubs doesn't do anything to help us. Instead of these inflammatory debateables Dr. Dean should be using his outrageousness effectively by calling the NeoCon portion of the Republican Party OUT on such things as:

Election Machine Fraud - VOTER VERIFIED PAPER BALLOTS!
Illegal War - The Memos
Napalm and Depleted Uranium
Torture and Abuse
Halliburton Bribes
DeLay and Abramoff
and many others

Let him rant about things that NEED more attention in the news! I can't believe he doesn't know this.

[lebkuchen]

1. Then start a reformation

if you still think there's time.

[wtmusic]

2. He does know it but he's a loose cannon

The Republican statement was just not true. "Many Republicans (read "most") have never worked a day in their lives"? :wtf:

[bitchkitty]

6. read "most"?

Since he didn't say that, why are you interpreting it that way for him?

It's the truth, which he later qualified - Many Republican leaders have never worked a day in their lives.

[NYCGirl]

10. And even then you misquoted, "never worked an HONEST day..." NT

[wtmusic]

12. Thank you

You're right, I misquoted. "Many have never worked an honest day." That's pure snark, any way you slice it. Could have come straight out of GD.

[stickdog]

27. The context was that they don't seem to mind when their policies make

hardworking Dems stand in line for six hours to vote.

It wasn't "pure snark" until the media presented it without a shred of context.

[ScreamingMeemie]

26. Yes all of those Republican leaders have been devoting their lives to

"hard work"...Yep wt, those leaders are really something to emulate and not laugh at. /sarcasm


Go Howard Go! Thanks for speaking for those of us not afraid to call the emperor and his party naked.

[LaurenG]

3. Hey, IMHO he's done a fantastic job

So far he's battled the republican spin machine the panty waists in the Dem party and the media sludge hurling contest. Give him a minute and see what he does about the important stuff.

[cyberpj]

7. Hey - I've contributed lots to his causes - I like his attitude -

but if he's going to get into a "hurling contest" as you call it, then let him hurl items of IMPORTANCE. I can't even agree with some of what he said about the Republican Party and, frankly, it was a little embarassing to me.

[LaurenG]

19. I'll grant you that he's not perfect

I still think he'll get the job done. My guess is he'll make us proud before it's over. :-)

[cyberpj]

22. I'm with you - and him - just trying to make him more productive...

I sent him the exact item I posted here.

[cyberpj]

24. weekend kick

[Fluffdaddy]

4. I like Dr. D but he needs to tone it down. But I don't think he can

[cyberpj]

8. I don't even want him to tone it down... just get ON TOPIC. nt.

[Fluffdaddy]

11. Yes, If he could stay...........ON TOPIC....I can live with that.

[KurtNYC]

5. The MSM picks what to cover and how to edit it

It is not like Dean came out and said 'hey our new slogan is the GOP is mostly a white Christian party' -- The media and the opposition saw something they thought they could twist in one part of Dean's conversation with someone and they ran with that.

Clinton was once asked by reporters: 'When will Whitewater be off the front pages?' Which is a ridiculous question because Clinton was not a newpaper editor. Similarly Dean does not run the MSM.

[cyberpj]

9. Understood. But he HAS to know that and he should be more careful.

He did say it, afterall.

[seabeyond]

13. the republican story is dean alienating white christian. i am white chris

he is a white christian. why are you promoting the repug story is my question

i dont think many of us realize this is what we do so often

how many white christians are there are this board

if 80% of the nation is white christian

repug holds 42-45% of the vote. then that leaves an awful lot of white christians in the democratic party. i tend to go to the crux, and that is the very basis to what white christian repugs say, about the democratic party, not being christians, is merely another lie

that is what i am challenging
and that is what dean was saying last night, talking about what rove, cheney say, about christians, dean says, i am white christian btw......

[JNelson6563]

16. The current MO

I like (insert Dem of choice) but.....

The "but" negates all that comes before it.

This is the current MO in use by those with less than noble purpose here at DU. When enough get wise to it another MO will be employed and on it goes.

Julie

[cyberpj]

18. I don't believe I am one of "those with less than noble purpose" here

I believe I'm trying to stimulate conversation on how Dr. Dean could be a better rep for Dems.

This is a forum, by the way
fo·rum (fôr??m, for?-) noun
A public meeting place for open discussion. c. A medium of open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper or a radio or television program.
Excerpted from The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language

And sorry - but in my case the but is really a term of exception -- the first part of my phrase is also true and I have supported Dr. Dean in both his personal campaign and at the DNC by contributing.

[seabeyond]

20. and i am merely discussing that you are wrong, lol wink n/t

[JNelson6563]

23. You generally? No, I don't think so either

I do think it's absurd to be demanding more of Dean when he is out there every day. If not on national TV than in some corner of the country letting forgotten, neglected Democrats know that they matter too.

Do you REALLY think you were kicking off a productive discussion? I mean really?? If so then you posting the the definition of "forum" for me as though I were retarded and didn't understand it's meaning is all the more laughable.

At least you are busy "helping" here on an obscure DB instead of out in the RW.

Julie--trying to find the good in every situation

[stickdog]

28. I think your purpose here is noble, but your effect is harmful,

Ask yourself the REASON the media hyped and rehyped those specific statements rather than 1000 other ON TOPIC statements Dean's made recently.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cyberpj]

15. I've seen stats that show him doing very well with fundraising.

Right here on DU.

[Larkspur]

17. He's already broken the 2003 DNC 1st QTR fundriasing

and is set to break the 2001 mid-year record.

In 2001 and 2003 under McAuliffe, the DNC lagged behind the RNC too, so if you desire to compare the DNC to the RNC today, they you'd better compare that ratio to the ratios of 2001 and 2003.

[cyberpj]

21. Ah, I see. The yahoo article posted here supports your post;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1568026#1568039

[GodHelpUsAll2]

25. Provables?

Such as? The DSM? The fact that Bush lied us into war? The abuses at American prisoner of war camps? Possible vote tampering? Plush Haliburton contracts? And the list goes on an on.

All of those things are out there in in the public. The country KNOWS they exist but unfortunately a LOT of the the public doesn't seem to care. So what should he do, harp and harp and harp to a group that doesn't seem to care in the first place? Or maybe just maybe he's rattling some cages and drawing some fire that is showing exactly what the oposition really is. Trying something different.

Everyone that complains that Dean is not doing things right needs to ask themselves, what democrat in our recent past or current for that matter has got it right that set the example of how to do things effectively? Did Kerry get it right during the campaign? Is Hillary "getting it right" as a senator? How about the democrats that rushed to help the voters in Florida get debate on the floor to protest the 2000 election, did they get it right? You remember those, the democrat senators that all lined up to be the one signature needed to open debate. How about all the democrats that voted for the IRW, did they "get it right"?

[TheFarseer]

31. You are illustrating why repubs campaign more effectively

You want to quit talking about something because it has already been reported? If Rush did that, he would have went off the air about 15 years ago! But he keeps repeating that liberals want to give our country to gays and terrorists and take away all you money and give it to homeless UN officials. Every week he pounds this message, every week people believe it more because he says it more. A message is more effective the more you say.

[TheFarseer]

29. yeah, you're right

there is more than enough to attack these people on with without resorting to hyperbole and opinion.

[Seneca]

30. I am not sold on "voter-verified paper ballots"

This is embraced with evangelical zeal, but truly, this wouldn't stop the kind of fraud which occurred before the age of computers. What is to stop a cadre of voters from committing fraud? Think of how the Christian Coalition got stealth candidates to run for city council and school board positions. Yes, Diebold needs to be held accountable, and security is an indisputable concern... but really, the mantra of "voter verified paper ballots" as some kind of magical solution to the Diebold problem is just so much huffery and puffery and wishful thinking. It's a weak solution to a major problem.

That, and the fact that Dean does not hold the key either. Telling his base what they want to hear is hardly a solution in itself. He needs to work on telling people why they should vote Democratic and not why they shouldn't vote Republican. The difference is not subtle.