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Who fights to protect your rights better? NRA or ACLU?

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billbuckhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 11:28 AM
Original message
Poll question: Who fights to protect your rights better? NRA or ACLU?
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
1. You Can Not Deny That The NRA Has Been Effective
And in that sense they have done the best job.
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billbuckhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Best job of what?Getting the most fascist regime in history elected
:eyes: I don't think that getting the Bush regime elected qulifies for defending our freedoms.
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. The NRA Would Have Supported Democrats
If the Democrats had supported the right to bear arms. You certainly can not blame the NRA for fighting hard to get the guy elected who told them in all honesty that their cause would be supported in its entirety?

Do you recall General Clark's response to the gun control question? It went something like this, 'I've got 30 guns and I like to hunt, but nobody needs machine guns but if they want them just join the military, casue there are plenty of them there'. That comment caused no pain with the NRA and if Al Gore had said exactly the same thing in mid 1999 he would be President today.
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billbuckhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Enron supported a couple Dems too
Where was the NRA in the TeXXXas redistricting fight? Did they stand up for conservative progun Dems? Where were they in the fillibuster fight? Sure they'll support a Dem or two, it's called plausible deniablity.


Wes Clark's actual quote was, "Well, let's talk about guns for just a second. Number one is, there's no reason for anybody to have assault weapons in our society for any reason. They should be banned. If you want assault weapons, we've got a uniform and a pair of boots for you to wear." – General Wesley Clark

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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-25-05 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. Actually, No. NRA Would Always Prefer Rethuglicans
Edited on Sat Jun-25-05 02:48 AM by AndyTiedye
Rethuglicans start more wars, and wars make much more business for
the gun manufacturers than hunters and shooters ever could.
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tk2kewl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
2. Who fights for all the rights protected in the Bill of Rights?
and who fights for only one of them?
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Pithlet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
3. F$%#^ the ACLU
I want to defend my own rights with guns blazing! Blam Blam Blam! If I accidental hit an innocent bystander in the process, then I'm sincerely sorry.

:sarcasm: I voted for the ACLU in the poll.
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noonwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
5. Currently, the ACLU.
If the country took a few more steps in the direction of facism and decided to use military/police to enforce things like curfews and other draconian laws, I'd say a tag team of both organizations would be protecting my rights. The NRA would ensure that I could get a good weapon to use in any resistance type action and the ACLU would be fighting for my civil liberties in court, if they all hadn't been killed yet.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
8. False dilemma fallacy
Edited on Fri Jun-24-05 06:36 PM by slackmaster
The NRA generally champions the rights that the ACLU ignores, and vice-versa. On occasion the two groups find themselves on the same side of an issue, usually related to freedom of speech. When that happens, they synergize each other.
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billbuckhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Come on Slackmaster you liked this poll just as much a you like the ACLU's
Edited on Fri Jun-24-05 11:03 PM by billbuckhead
interpretation of the 2nd amendment.

<http://www.aclu.org/PolicePractices/PolicePractices.cfm?ID=9621&c=25>
March 4, 2002

Gun Control

"Why doesn't the ACLU support an individual's
unlimited right to keep and bear arms?"

BACKGROUND
The ACLU has often been criticized for "ignoring the Second Amendment" and refusing to fight for the individual's right to own a gun or other weapons. This issue, however, has not been ignored by the ACLU. The national board has in fact debated and discussed the civil liberties aspects of the Second Amendment many times.

We believe that the constitutional right to bear arms is primarily a collective one, intended mainly to protect the right of the states to maintain militias to assure their own freedom and security against the central government. In today's world, that idea is somewhat anachronistic and in any case would require weapons much more powerful than handguns or hunting rifles. The ACLU therefore believes that the Second Amendment does not confer an unlimited right upon individuals to own guns or other weapons nor does it prohibit reasonable regulation of gun ownership, such as licensing and registration.

IN BRIEF
The national ACLU is neutral on the issue of gun control. We believe that the Constitution contains no barriers to reasonable regulations of gun ownership. If we can license and register cars, we can license and register guns.

Most opponents of gun control concede that the Second Amendment certainly does not guarantee an individual's right to own bazookas, missiles or nuclear warheads. Yet these, like rifles, pistols and even submachine guns, are arms.

The question therefore is not whether to restrict arms ownership, but how much to restrict it. If that is a question left open by the Constitution, then it is a question for Congress to decide.

ACLU POLICY
"The ACLU agrees with the Supreme Court's long-standing interpretation of the Second Amendment that the individual's right to bear arms applies only to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia. Except for lawful police and military purposes, the possession of weapons by individuals is not constitutionally protected. Therefore, there is no constitutional impediment to the regulation of firearms." --Policy #47

ARGUMENTS, FACTS, QUOTES

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free
State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
The Second Amendment to the Constitution

"Since the Second Amendment. . . applies only to the right of the State to
maintain a militia and not to the individual's right to bear arms, there
can be no serious claim to any express constitutional right to possess a firearm."


U.S. v. Warin (6th Circuit, 1976)

Unless the Constitution protects the individual's right to own all kinds of arms, there is no principled way to oppose reasonable restrictions on handguns, Uzis or semi-automatic rifles.

If indeed the Second Amendment provides an absolute, constitutional protection for the right to bear arms in order to preserve the power of the people to resist government tyranny, then it must allow individuals to possess bazookas, torpedoes, SCUD missiles and even nuclear warheads, for they, like handguns, rifles and M-16s, are arms. Moreover, it is hard to imagine any serious resistance to the military without such arms. Yet few, if any, would argue that the Second Amendment gives individuals the unlimited right to own any weapons they please. But as soon as we allow governmental regulation of any weapons, we have broken the dam of Constitutional protection. Once that dam is broken, we are not talking about whether the government can constitutionally restrict arms, but rather what constitutes a reasonable restriction.

The 1939 case U.S. v. Miller is the only modern case in which the Supreme Court has addressed this issue. A unanimous Court ruled that the Second Amendment must be interpreted as intending to guarantee the states' rights to maintain and train a militia. "In the absence of any evidence tending to show that possession or use of a shotgun having a barrel of less than 18 inches in length at this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument," the Court said.

In subsequent years, the Court has refused to address the issue. It routinely denies cert. to almost all Second Amendment cases. In 1983, for example, it let stand a 7th Circuit decision upholding an ordinance in Morton Grove, Illinois, which banned possession of handguns within its borders. The case, Quilici v. Morton Grove 695 F.2d 261 (7th Cir. 1982), cert. denied 464 U.S. 863 (1983), is considered by many to be the most important modern gun control case. "

---snip---------------------------

Yep, the ACLU looks at the right to own a gun as the same as marrying your sister or smoking crack.

Morton Grove, ain't that a NAZI hangout?

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BamaGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
9. I voted ACLU, but I give money to both
:P And a whole host of other ppl who probably use it in ways I wouldn't approve of lol.
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Independent_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
11. ACLU all the way baby!
:)
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Endangered Specie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
12. The National Republican Association...
defending your right to shoot up a school. :eyes:

Im for reasonable gun rights, but a 'progunner' supporting the NRA is kinda like an animal rights person supporting the ALF.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-25-05 02:55 AM
Response to Original message
14. The NRA "Defends" Rights That Are Not In Any Danger
Edited on Sat Jun-25-05 02:57 AM by AndyTiedye
The ACLU needs all the help it can get, defending the 1st,
4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th Amendments, along with
the rest of the Constitution.

Not too many cases of soldiers being quartered in private homes lately,
so they haven't had to defend the 3rd Amendment too much.

No real threats to the 2nd lately either. The government is more
interested in what library books you read than how many guns you have.

I will not support the NRA because any money that goes to the NRA
goes straight to the Republican party, and besides, what they are
"defending" is not at risk. I give to the ACLU, and to Verified Voting.

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Ragnar Donating Member (184 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-25-05 03:09 AM
Response to Original message
15. The NRA, no doubt.
The ACLU is the organization I support, but the NRA has done a very good job in defending the right to keep and bear arms. The ACLU is hampered by its desire to protect the entire bill of rights, and does so with marginally less success than the NRA.

I never would give the NRA money though, as they fund the worst of th worst Republicans.
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