Is Billy Graham just another Evangelical?

[question everything]

All the news media were filled with his last crusade (oh how I detest this world) in New York. And that he was the "adviser" of all the Presidents.

But, when it comes down to it, what's the difference between him and all the dittoheads?

[BelleCarolinaPeridot]

1. He's a Democrat .

:shrug:

[FreedomAngel82]

5. I saw an article dealing with him earlier this week

One thing from him in the article is this: <In a week when evangelist Billy Graham is visiting New York for what may be the last mass meeting of a long and noble ministry, Richard Ostling of the Associated Press asked him about social issues. Graham replied, "I don't give advice. I'm going to stay off these hot-button issues."

Graham hasn't always shied away from those topics, but he learned where the greater power comes from and it isn't government. The 86-year-old Graham "now seeks to shun all public controversies - preferring a simple message of love and unity through Jesus," writes Ostling.>

Here's the article: http://www.townhall.com/columnists/calthomas/ct20050620.shtml

It's a pretty good read and makes some good points.

[Mark Williams]

2. I don't

I don't know too much about him but I have heard that he doesn't like mixing politics and religion.

[thebigidea]

8. its kind of neat the way he gets to say that...

... after doing so for decades.

[mitchum]

38. LOL!!!

thank you for injecting some sanity and truth into this thread

[madeline_con]

15. "I have heard that he doesn't like mixing politics and religion"

I saw something today, a tape where he and Nixon were talking not so nicely about Jews.

Then, he later said he "didn't mean" what he said on the tape. Man of God. Right.

[Blue_In_AK]

32. I think he learned his lesson about mixing politics and religion

when Richard Nixon, with whom he was publicly close, went down.

[LiberalAndProud]

3. His book Approaching Hoofbeats: The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse

In the book he teaches about the Christian mandate to care for the impoverished of the world. He does not discredit the Armaddon Theory, he simply points out that we have a responsibility as Christians to care for one another.

[cynatnite]

4. He's been a spiritual advisor to presidents since Truman, I think

He didn't with bush jr since he hasn't been able to do much because of his health.

I always liked him because he never got into the political world like falwell and robertson. He never said the crap those two spewed out. His son's gotten into the falwell and robertson 'speak' so I don't care much for him.

Graham's pretty well stayed away from what I have seen.

But there are others on DU who consider him worse for other reasons. He's the only one that I think is actually a christian and walks the walk.

[FreedomAngel82]

10. Same here

I have a lot more respect for him then I do Falwell and Robertson. That article I posted earlier is really good read though. Share it with any fundie types you know. Might give them something to think about. A lil sample: <Jesus said he came to bring a sword. A sword divides. The primary objective for the Christian should be to seek and to point others toward Jesus, not to political parties and agendas.

The social ills confronting us have not produced our collective indifference to a moral code. They reflect that indifference. Fixing social ills does not begin in the halls of Congress or Supreme Court, but in individual human hearts.

Government can't go there. God can. But if God's servants prefer government to God, or seek to attach God to political parties and earthly agendas, they are doomed to futility.>

[cynatnite]

22. I went back read the article you posted

Saving it and emailing it to my rw mother. Excellent read!

[hedda_foil]

6. He actually believes in the separation of church and state.

And he's never publicly slandered or dissed any group of people (though in tapes of his private conversations with Nixon he was clearly antisemitic).

[cprise]

21. I recall him crusading against humanists.

On his "coooooome home you hippie magots" ABC specials back in the 80s.

[mitchum]

40. Sure enough

[Media_Lies_Daily]

7. I'm sorry, but he's just like the rest of those people...

...it's all about personal power.

[Gloria]

9. BBC World Service today...interviewed someone (I don't know who) who

interjected a few realities. That Graham, in spite of the fact he never openly became political, was still at the start of the evangelical movement and that we now at the point that we have the beginnings of a theocracy in the US. He didn't let Graham off the hook on that one...that he helped get the ball rolling...


And where did his creepy son and daughter come from?? They are both insufferable....

[cynatnite]

12. Can you be more specific?

Better yet, a link?

[cprise]

30. Dominionism from Graham

The appeal to evangelicals went further. On April 29, 1985, Billy Graham, the respected and world famous evangelist, told Pat Robertson’s audience on the 700 Club show that:

“The time has come when evangelicals are going to have to think about getting organized corporately….I’m for evangelicals running for public office and winning if possible and getting control of the Congress, getting control of the bureaucracy, getting control of the executive branch of government. I think if we leave it to the other side we’re going to be lost. I would like to see every true believer involved in politics in some way shape or form.”

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5646.htm

I think today he is just dismayed at what he helped wrought. With a political past like his (e.g. Nixon) and apparent collusion with Domionists, I would have an incentive to be above the political fray, so-to-speak. Unfortunately, this indicates a weak and opportunistic personality.

[FreedomAngel82]

13. Right

He did do that. Now we have to try to seperate things again. Wasn't he a big force in the 90's? (I was young then so dunno)

[madeline_con]

18. "And where did his creepy son and daughter come from?? "

Friut of his sanctimonious loins, I'd guess.

[cynatnite]

20. What does his kids have to do with it?

We're talking about Billy Graham.

[madeline_con]

27. We're talking about Billy Graham.

Is he childless now?

[cynatnite]

34. Kids do grow up and don't always follow their parents' example

This discussion still doesn't have anything to do with his kids.

[madeline_con]

37. If you would read post #9...

which is the one I was responding to when you took issue with my reply to it, you will notice mention of two creepy kids.

[evlbstrd]

11. He's about to die.

In the touring show (which I was fortunate enough to see!) of National Lampoon's "Lemmings," they did the Swearing Out Ceremony of Richard Nixon.
By the Rev. Billy Graham.
"Richard Nixon, you son-of-a-bitch ..."

[Liberal In Texas]

19. They did that bit on the "National Lampoon Radio Show" back in the

'70's. I may still have it on tape someplace around here. I can't believe someone else remembers that!

[Hardrada]

24. It was actually The National Lampoon Radio Dinner

I still have the LP. tres amusante!

[Liberal In Texas]

29. There was a radio show on too. One hour every week.

This was from the "Impeachment Show". I taped a few off the air. Funny how some of the relatively unknown voices wound up later as cast members on the very first season of "Saturday Night Live".

On edit, found this:

The National Lampoon Radio Hour ran from November 17, 1973 to December 28, 1974, and was broadcast weekly on hundreds of stations throughout the U.S. It was one of the best radio comedy shows ever produced, and introduced many talented and now well-known perfomers to a national audience for the first time. Among the performers that appeared regularly or irregularly were Chevy Chase, John Belushi, Christopher Guest, Michael O'Donoghue, Bill Murray, Brian Doyle-Murray, Gilda Radner, Harry Shearer, Harold Ramis, Joe Flaherty, Richard Belzer, Tony Scheuren, Windy Craig, Flo & Eddie, George Coe, Gary Goodrow, Norman Rose, and Alice Playten, just to name a few.

The site also says the show came about as result of the album "Radio Dinner".

http://www.marksverylarge.com/nlrh/nlrhintro.html

[Hardrada]

41. That's fascinating.

I hope they bring those shows out on CD!

[evlbstrd]

43. I got to see it live.

And they chose Gerald Ford as president (Chevy Chase) by eliminating those who could walk and chew gum at the same time.

[cornfedyank]

14. of the ones i've seen in forty years... he's the most honest

he just preached the message of salvation thru jesus christ.

he never begged for money as hard as the rest.

[ovidsen]

16. He's not a racist.

In the early 1950s, he refused to hold segregated services in the Deep South, and during his 1957 NYC crusade, he invited Dr. Martin Luther King to join him at the pulpit.

Plus, either he's immune to the sins of pride and the flesh, or he hides his sins very well.

O8)

[Coyote_Bandit]

17. He seems a whole lot less legalistic

than the other fundie preachers - and a bit more accepting of those who differ from his political views. I also think his approach to evangelism is at least a bit less emotional in its appeal than say Benny Hinn or Jimmy Swaggart. And he obviously has some diplomatic skill - something Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell will never be accused of....Never mind the fact that his ministry seems to have more financial integrity and be less motivated by financial gain than some of the prosperity preachers. Like Oral Roberts, Billy Graham is reported to be a Democrat.

[question everything]

31. Thanks. I guess it is all relative

When Goldwater ran in 1964 he was seen as a reactionary right winger. Yet, during the 80's and 90's, when the real reactionaries took over the Republican party, he could have been described as almost a liberal... certainly a pro-choice moderate.

[whalerider55]

23. my two cents...

in all the years i've been politically aware, (JFK...) i've never thought that grahame was politically motivated, nor thought it was his message, nor saw much evidence of it... as much as i wanted to.

true, he began the evangelical movement. but jefferson was pretty keen on states rights, and helped frame a constitution that was kinda mum on slavery; do we hold him responsible for what Jefferson Davis and John Calhoun felt compelled to do?

i'm giving graham the benefit of the doubt. as a person of the hebrew persuasion, i think his expousal of the message of Rabbi Jesus is neither falwellian, nor robertsian, nor swaggertian, nor reedian...
it reflects a belief we can do better. the others, well, doing better means something different than the good Rebbe would have wanted. that he might have said anti-semitic things just makes me all aware of how imperfect we are, and how far we all have to go. including graham, which i suspect he would admit.

i'm giving a pass to Robert Byrd, too. the man made a mistake, admitted it, and asks us to consider a lifetime that probably ends up to the good.

at some point, you gotta let them go.

killen, however, now there's one of g-d's own weasels.

i'll take a flier on graham. when he meets his maker, i have a feeling he'll be saying i could have done more... and he won't mean getting a fascist on the surpeme court.

whalerider

[Malikshah]

25. personally, I'm offended when he's referred to as America's Preacher

fuck that.

he clearly raised a vile bigoted son in Franklin. What's that say about him? Quite a bit.

"You have to be carefully taught..."

[bobbieinok]

26. his crusades--he had to be invited and lined up churches to do follow up

he played golf or socialized with many presidents

he was 'burned' by Nixon and, I think, refused to get so close to any other president

when Swaggert and Baker were going down, there was a book by a Rice sociology prof that said Graham was always very careful in his dealings with women to avoid any possibility of scandal

Graham spoke at the dedication of Oral Roberts Univ in the late 60s

he was the main speaker at the 1995 nationally televised memorial service for the victims of the OKC bombing.....pretty generic and comforting message as I recall

very much unlike his son's sermon for the Columbine victims....a sermon that apparently angered many in CO

IMO, Franklin can be partly explained by the apparent need of young men to differentiate themselves clearly from their fathers

Graham started his crusades about the time I was in hi school....don't remember watching many.....2 things I remember---him holding the Bible in one hand and saying 'the Bible says....' and George Beverly Shea singing How Great Thou Art

[Auntie Bush]

28. He said he''s been a life long DEMOCRAT!

I wonder what bush and all those Fundies think of that?

[AlwaysQuestion]

33. This may be highly unpopular.......BUT

in my opinion, no religious leader serves any useful purpose. They sell fairytales to those who need comfort. I don't believe in religion. I don't believe in the Bible. I don't believe in the Koran or any other religious book. I don't need an intermediary to God. I don't need someone to explain God to me. I do my own thinking about spirituality and I'll be damned if I'll donate a penny to any religious entity. We've got more religion these days and more war. On the other hand, I will humbly admit that if I could see that religion was helping to alleviate poverty, sickness, war, torture, etc., I would embrace it so very quickly. But that's not the case. Given the religiosity of the U.S. I would think that each religious American should demand that the problem of poverty be solved--in their own country. That is not being done. That's why when one attacks the usefulness of religion, the argument is always, "it's a personal thing." And that is, indeed, true. It was never meant to embrace and solve the human condition as it claims it does.

I'm a Pollyanna who believes that all people no matter what their country are entitled to some peace, good health, food, water and shelter. Give me a religious country--any--choose your poison--and I will give you a country which is wrought with crime, big prison populations, poverty, declining education, and many other woes.

Given the Russias and the Chinas of this world, I don't believe that one should outlaw religion either. I would just like people to question their beliefs in the light of what they see around them. In short, I'd like to see more independent thinking taken up as a matter of choice.

[Ragnar]

35. I actually might go tomorrow night.

Just out of pure curiosity. I've always found him to be the least offensive of evangelicals.

[goclark]

45. Is it going to be on television tomorrow?

[mitchum]

36. He has great hair, a fantastic hawk-like profile. and a beautiful voice...

but he's still just another pulpit-dwelling grifter

[BMG]

39. I think a good leader has to think outside the box.

Too many leaders conform to an instutition, usually a religous one. Imagine a leader who saw things differently and objectivley, who didnt conform to a belief set but instead saw things how they should be.

[peacebaby3]

42. I'm almost sure I remember him publicly endorsing * this past election.

I was very disappointed and lost all respect. His son is absolutely horrible.

If I am wrong, please let me know because he was one of the only spiritual leaders that I had an ounce of respect for until I read he endorsed the "moran."

[MikeH]

44. I can't stomach Billy Graham, or anybody who believes the things he does

Whatever good might be said about Billy Graham, such as, say, having an inclusive message, I basically can't stomach him or anybody like him.

The problem I have with him is some of his basic beliefs. He, and people like him, basically believe in a Hitler-like God who is going to condemn people to Hell for all eternity if they happen to miss out on accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior in this lifetime (and for whatever reason, as far as I can tell).

Even if I accept Christ for myself, I cannot live with the idea of having to worry about other people being "saved" or "unsaved", and being obligated to do all I can to win others to Christ being motivated by such a belief.

And, personally, I did take Christ seriously earlier in my life, and found this business of a personal relationship with Jesus Christ to be not at all helpful to me in enabling me to better deal with frustrating and difficult real-world circumstances and people.

(If other people have found a personal relationship with Jesus Christ to be helpful to them, that is good for them; however this was not the case for me.)

That being the case, I have absolutely no use for Billy Graham or anybody like him.

[Perky]

46. I can not believe some of the post on this subject

Half of the posts on this subject are clueiess.


Billy Graham is neither a televangelist or apolitician disguised as a zealot.

He is asimply man who loves Jesus and is not ashamed to say it out loud.

He made a conscious decision years ago to eschew the religious right becuase he was afraid to get involved either is support or criticism of the idiotic movement would detract from his mission before God.

He has been everything an evangeleist should be...He has not grubbed for money. nor has he engaged in the culture wars as a means of raising cash.

In fact, he is likely the epitome of what we think men of faith ought to be in the public square. You may diagree with his religion on any number of points but he has proven himself worthy of respect

ANd to think some on here complaing about the fundies being intolerant of other opinions