They say enlistment is down but re-enlistment is way up especially in

[Toots]

Combat areas. I remember in Vietnam a lot of people reenlisted just to get out of the infantry or other combat areas. Could this also be one reason that reenlistment is up in combat areas more than others. Besides the huge bonus that is offered you also get a chance to select a new MOS. At least that was the way the army was forty years ago. A new MOS such as clerk or gas station attendant. Anyone with real knowledge care to give us the skinny?

[acmejack]

1. My experience is the same as yours

but just as old...

[salin]

2. Where is this info on increased reenlistment?

I heard bush say something to that effect - just after reading that the army had missed its targets for the second month and the guards were having a heck of a time. Perhaps this is what he was referring to? Where can I read about it?

[KharmaTrain]

3. A Lot Of Pressure Is Being Put On, Too

I heard a person who returned, and expects to go back in 6 months, saying the pressure to "re-up" is intense. There's the "guilt factor" of leaving buddies behind and how groups are pushed to re-enlist all at once so no one can really back out.

[acmavm]

4. All the articles I've seen, especially here, have been about military

personnel NOT re-enlisting. That's why there's supposedly a shortage in the officer department of the military.

I somehow doubt this.

[Vickers]

5. Officers don't reenlist (or enlist for that matter). Many officers get

out (resign their commission) after their commitment is over. The commitment can be because of ROTC, schooling, because they went to a service academy, etc.

I realize it's semantics, but there is a subtle difference.

The main point is: when the officer corps is saying adios during a war, it means things are seriously fucked up. Wartime is when officers (in particular) get "points" that will determine later on how high they will advance.

[MindPilot]

6. with stop-loss in effect, people are probably being told

re-up and take the cash or we'll keep you forever anyway.

[TheDebbieDee]

7. That makes sense, Mindpilot. That reasoning.....

might make me seriously consider re-upping and taking the bonus over waiting indefinitely to ETS.

[Toots]

9. The military is not really a bad place

It is only in these "Wars for Profit" that it gets quite uncomfortable. We won't always be over there getting shot at. There can be a lot of opportunity in the military and the bonuses now are quite astounding. We need a strong military and preferrably a Democratic leaning one. The military could be used for a real force for good if we were so inclined. Maybe with reenlistment you could change your MOS to something more appealing now that you have had opportunity to get to know what's available. Good luck with your ddecision and thank you for your service.

[TheDebbieDee]

10. Sorry, Toots. I didn't mean to imply that I am still active duty.

I left Army active duty in July '91 and ETS'd from the Army Reserves in June '03.

But if I were still active duty, no matter how pissed I was at this admin and it's overly aggressive foreign policy, I would probably re-up for the bonus over "detained" indefinitely in service without a bonus!

[cosmik debris]

8. That's a fact

I have a step-son-in-law who has been told "Re-up and get the huge bonuses or we will keep you at a discount. The choice is clear. but you will not be leaving the U.S. Army!"

[halobeam]

11. If this is going on, then why aren't they saying anything?

Why do they keep silent? Why? This is what I don't get. OK, pressure, fear... etc. But everyone? I'm not judging, I'm honestly puzzled. Is it less dangerous to be in a war, than to speak out? I'd rather chance being killed for opening my mouth, than being killed by combat. And that's the worst case scenerio, isn't it? Isn't it true that they would save more lives in the long run by FIGHTING the "demand".. ("you will never leave the Army"!)by speaking out, shouting out from the rooftops if they had to?? Calling a reporter they trust and staying confidential, whatever the hell it took?

What am I missing? My logic tells me it's not that simple, but my experience in life tells me, the hard things are worth fighting for. I honestly don't get it.

[cosmik debris]

13. look at the percentages

Your chances of being killed in Iraq today are less than 1 in a thousand, but if you buck the system you don't know what your chance are. The implied statement is that if you don't re-enlist you might be put on the front line with a Hummer that is un-armored. sacrifice the traitors and protect the loyal troops????? There are a lot of ways the US Army can screw a person who has already signed on the bottom line. It may be that a 1 in a 1000 chance is the best a soldier can hope for.

[halobeam]

15. I knew it was more complicated than I understood.

How many troops are home for good now? Those who've retired, or disabled? Wouldn't they be serving justice by speaking out? I wonder, it still seems like NO ONE is saying what needs to be said.

btw, while asking questions regarding troops, did we ever get the final count on their vote in the 2004 election?

[ThomWV]

12. Bullshit On More Reenlistments In Viet Nam

That is just pure bullshit. Guys in Viet Nam were not reenlisting to get out of humping. It would not have worked anyway - even a enlistee would still have to serve out his tour and anyone who signed the papers and took the money stayed right the hell where they were. By the way, in those days reenlistment bonus was capped at $10,000 (enlisted men) and to get that much you have to hold a MOS with a factor of 4. Grunts out in the bush had a reenlistment multiple factor of 1, meaning they got one hell of a lot less than ten grand. So even that wasn't much of a factor in what few reenlistments they got in the field.

There is one way of skewing the facts that would make it look like there were a lot of reenlist mens from Viet Nam. If you were in the Army and left Viet Nam anytime after about 1969 it was likely that you would fly to Travis Air Force Base, California. Then you'd be transported by bus to Oakland where you would process out of the service if your enlistment was complete. However it was part of the routine as you departed your last duty unit to be fed the sales pitch for a reenlistment. Just about everyone who reenlisted did it then and there, rather than waiting for the utterly impersonal atmosphere of a replacement depot to volunteer for reenlistment. So from that aspect, yes, most of the reenlistments of returning vets actually did take place in country, but sure as hell not for the reason you state and they took place in the last day or two of a tour of duty.

[salin]

14. I am still trying to figure out

where there is info about high enlistment rates - haven't read it anywhere - but did here bush say it once. Am guessing if he said it, it is based on something skewed but published. Wonder what it is based on?