US students leaving Aust. - too much anti-america voices

[donsu]

http://www.sundaytimes.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,7034,15734656%255E421,00.html

Students quit over anti-US slurs


AMERICAN students are quitting Queensland universities in the face of hate attacks by Australians angry at US President George W. Bush and the war in Iraq.

One university has launched an investigation into claims an American student returned to the US after suffering six months of abuse at a residential college in Brisbane.

American students have told The Sunday Mail the verbal attacks are unbearable and threatening to escalate into physical violence.

Griffith University student Ian Wanner, 19, from Oregon, said abusive Australian students had repeatedly called him a "sepo" – short for septic tank. "It is so disrespectful. It's not exactly the most welcoming atmosphere here," he said.

The Queensland Anti-Discrimination Commission has described the abuse as "horrible" and says it could be classed as racial vilification.
-snip-
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"racial vilification" ????


don't flame - are the US kids ninnies or just don't know enough about what the bushgang is doing, so don't know how to react?

if you were a progressive american student wouldn't you have a conversation with the name callers to tell them you quite agreed with them about the bushgang?

[justinsb]

1. There is some of that here too

A US reporter recently came up and pretended to be a southern Bush supporter and got quite a bit of abuse - as a anti-bush progressive, having lived here for 3 years I have heard very little of this though and none directed a me personally.

Oh and there is a new T-shirt selling here that apparently some of the tourists find offensive. It says "What is the definition of a Canadian" and on the back it says "An unarmed American with Health Care". No idea, personally, how that is offensive - the differences are actually alot deeper than that but .. whatever.

[gorbal]

2. I guess it would depend

I don't know about aussies, but I have had experiences with some Europeans who kept arguing with me, even after agreed with them.

Not saying they are all alike, but there are crazies everywhere. If you happen to go somewhere where the US is viewed in a negative light, you'll have the crazies on your ass, agree with them or no.

[justinsb]

3. I hate to break it to you

But I don't think there is anywhere left where the US isn't "viewed in a negative light".

[gorbal]

5. Let me rephrase

"If you leave the country you will have the crazies on your ass."... and quite a few perfectly sane people will probably spit at you.

[justinsb]

10. That's closer to the truth

but at least in most places, if you make it clear that you, personally, aren't part of the problem you will also find people who sympathise with you, are eager to talk to you and will lend you whatever support they can - including calming down their friends and countrymen. However, if you are a Bush supporter - don't travel.

[Karenina]

6. This reaction

is simply an indication of how BETRAYED your friends feel. YOU LIED TO THEM. YOU DECEIVED THEM. They are NOT in denial, they are ANGRY.

[noamnety]

4. I would wear a W-slash button

or upside down flag pin to make it clear I don't support Bush any more than they do. And I'd learn to refer to myself as a dissident. I share your questioning of the phrase "racial vilification" - it sounds political, not racial - two very different things.

The American students who see that as "war" need a little more exposure to what's happening in Iraq. Maybe then they'll understand the outrage over what our country is doing.

If I'm wrong on that - if it really does amount to a war, and I'm grossly underestimating it - then perhaps they need to reflect on that. If Australia now sees the US as an enemy, how do they think the Middle East sees us? How have Bush's policies made us safer, if even our allies are against us?

[justinsb]

7. It's not just the war...

it's that too but a short list might look something like

1) The war in Iraq
1a) Human rights abuses in Iraq, Afghanistan and Gitmo
2) Religious fanatasism, including the anti-gay stance
3) Refusal to sign major international treaties such as the ban on land mines, Kyoto and the International Criminal court.
4) the assault on the UN

and then a variety of things that will vary by country

[noamnety]

12. Good points, all of them

I can't disagree with any of that.

[bvar22]

8. Advice for Americans traveling outside the US....

..for your safety, masquerade as a Canadian!

[justinsb]

11. Um...no

Nothing will do more to further lower the view of the US in Canada, than travelling as an American and pretending you're canadian.

[bvar22]

18. You wear your American Flag,

I'll be wearing a Maple Leaf on the streets of foreign countries. ESPECIALLY Europe and South America. I haven't traveled much in Asia, so I don't know from experience how high the Anti-American resentment is there, but I can PROMISE you that you don't want to be on the streets in Venezuela with an American flag on your back.

See Ya!

[justinsb]

22. If you want to wear a Canadian flag, move on up and see what it means

until then you're part of the problem , and don't be suprised if a Canadian kicks your ass in your travels.

[bettyellen]

23. part of the problem for not leaving America? ROFL

and instead staying and fighting?
that may be how you to choose to (not) deal with stuff, but some of us and made of sterner stuff than you. I don't actually feel guilt over the actions of people i've fought against for years.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bettyellen]

26. maybe you've been mistaken for an american because "they are rude"

as was your suggestion.
glad you're gone!

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bettyellen]

30. ruder than name calling?

i don't think so. i'm glad you left because you felt it was in your family's best interests.
but you don't get automatic credit for having a better country just becasue you moved there for (according to you) selfish reasons.

[justinsb]

33. I get credit

because my friends and neighbors give it to me, they refer to me as Canadian now, not American - which I am proud of. I think I'm about done on these forums, I'll think about it, but I don't know if there is any point. There are some things people who live in the states simply won't get - regardless.

[bettyellen]

38. wow, well all that name calling was soo persuasive, who could fail to

"get it", and you braggin about how canadians will kick americans' asses! LOL.
Is that all part of how you're raising your kids better than us in the states? Let's all label people and insult them because of where they live! Next, we'll threaten violence, wooo hooo!!

all very well reasoned and thoughtful anti-american arguements, no wonder you're so happy posting here!!

:hi:

[justinsb]

39. You obviously weren't even reading what I wrote

join the republicans, you and your fact spinning would be right at home. Bye.

[bettyellen]

40. you want to raise your kids better,

learn to argue rationally and back up what you say..... instead of throwing out labels and again, name calling.
labeling is a sign of bigotry. painting a people with a broad brush is ignorance, and you did not suddenly become a better person than all americans by virtue of your crossing the border. it's hilarious from your posts that you feel somhow superior, and yet are completely unable to explain why....
if anything i said was untrue, you might start by pointing out specifics, instead you do what? call me a repubican!!
your debating skill set is darned limited, isn't it?
:rofl:

[justinsb]

44. Whine to someone else

This started as a discussion about Americans wearing the Canadian flag abroad. I didn't threaten anyone, I said that if you did that that you shouldn't be suprised if a Canadian kicked your ass, because it pisses them off. People here don't like it when others hide behind their flag. I said that if you wanted to wear the Canadian flag you should come on up and see what it means, rather than just hiding behind it. You were the one who was originally insulting. Saying that going to Canada was no solution and that those who didn't were made of 'sterner stuff' implying somehow that people who moved were weak or cowardly - neither of which is true. I admid I overreacted, but you were the one who was originally insulting and bigoted - assuming that you had any insight what-so-ever as to why people might leave the US. (which you obviously don't). Again, even though it was just a few posts you chose to ignore what I actually said and react instead to what you would have liked for me to say (a very repulicanesqe distortion of the truth.)

In short you have no moral high ground here, it was not only the republicans who finally convinced me that it was time to go, it was people like you who were "on my side" that caused me to ultimately lose hope that things in the states were going to improve much in my lifetime. Don't think for a second you can tell me how to raise my kids, or that you have anything to teach anyone about right and wrong.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

29. In Japan, people asked me whether I was a Republican or Democrat

(something that has never happened before in 28 years of traveling there), and when I said "Democrat," they relaxed and smiled.

The letters to the editor section of the Japan Times shows, however, that there are freepers even among Americans resident there.

[JVS]

32. What about pretending to be Quebecois and violently proud of it?

[bettyellen]

28. just belch a lot and call people " hosers"

most non-north americans can't tell us apart, anyway.

[JVS]

31. Yeah!

[julianer]

42. I live in a major tourist

centre and often hang around at a friend's antique shop. When anyone with an American accent comes in he automatically asks how things are in Canada. You either gets stoney silence or grateful grins!

I haven't noticed any outright anti-americanism directed at US citizens here, but I'm not everywhere, and anti-Bushism is really a near universal feeling amongst the population, and, unfortunately, I'm sure that sometimes translates as just being anti-American.

[alcibiades_mystery]

9. Living in a university town, and seeing the way Indian and Middle eastern

students are openly disrespected, and yet manage to persevere, I have three words:

Boo-fucking-hoo.

[sojourner]

20. Most kids US have had NO idea what prejudice feels like...so, Waah!

Except kids of color or gays ----

I know this sounds callous. But damnit I find that Americans are the most spoiled brats on the planet. Everything is "me", "mine" and "more". Many people on this planet would be grateful to live at American poverty levels.

I'm white. But I have listened carefully over the years to the slurs that white Americans have heaped on people of color, and thus have no great sympathy that some young'uns get an education firsthand.

That said, it is a tragedy that it's because of Bush supporters and their blind support of his fucked up policies that America has lost the last iota of respect. Sad.

[The Backlash Cometh]

13. Redneck Australians.

sort of.

[mr blur]

14. It's dumb and ignorant,

to vilify others just because they happen to be from the US but I would guess you'll be seeing more of this. We see this clown Bush bumbling round the world pissing everybody off, insulting their culture, their traditions, their beliefs. How do you think people in Baghdad react when they see some redneck fuckwit on the box claiming "they hate us for our culture, because they don't have one and they're envious of ours!"? These people had a civilised culture - buildings, libraries, beliefs - thousands of years before Washington DC was anything more than a swamp.

Oh sorry, they can't have done because Murcans know that the world is only 6,000 years old. My mistake.

Perhaps if these students watched some TV news elsewhere in the world they'd see what a freakshow their country represents to everyone else. Not fair, of course, to blame them for it, but they might come to understand some of the ridicule they might encounter.

[UdoKier]

15. They must be rightwing Bush supporters

trying pathetically to defend the indefensible war. Must be surprising to them that the pathetic rationalizations that work for them with American morons don't work on folks in other countries.

But they might want to remind them that Australia's right-wing PM Howard supported the war, against the wishes of the people, and maybe their ire should be directed at him, rather than a few foreign students...

[struggle4progress]

16. Why not just wear an anti-Bush T-shirt everywhere?

[Deja Q]

17. Well, when a country's president makes the country look bad...

I wouldn't be leaving it.

I'd be called a coward for leaving it, or I'd be called an emabler for supporting it.

[Snap]

19. So it is.

I am a Danish-American from Minnesota, and I live in Denmark in the summers for the last 10 years. People are extra pissed at America now with George Jackass and Co., but there hasn't been much regard for some time. The election of Ron Raygun, the great communicator and total fucking idiot was very telling of American political culture.
My personal experience has been that people are curious and mystified and WTF is going on in America that we happily elect such dangerous ninnies to positions of power. My position is that these corporatists, oligarchs, and fascists have a pretty firm grip on the system, and American progressives do as best we can, but we need all the help we can get from the rest of the world to show the Bush clan the door.

[The River]

21. I Was On Leave In Australia

during the height of the Viet Nam war.
I bypassed the "tourist" crap and ended
up in Canberra during an Arts Festival at
the University. Hotel rooms were non-existent
and I ended up renting a dorm room among the
thousands of students there for the festival.
Needless to say, the atmosphere there was the same
as campuses all across America at the time. They were
protesting the war.
NEVER, in the 2 days I was there, was I mistreated
for being an American (or a Serviceman caught up in the war).
I was NOT Nixon and I didn't defend his policies or his war.
I was living proof that not all Americans were war mongers.
It was 2 of the best days of my life. ;-)

I suspect the students who were "harassed" were pro-Bush Bots
who spouted RW talking points.
Some people just never know when to keep their mouths shut.

[anakie]

24. He must be a bit fragile if the term "sepo" upsets him

it is not a term of abuse. It is rhyming slang for an American. Yank...septic tank.....seppo. Was this guy defending the indefensible (Bush and the war), was he trying to force his fundy Xianity on his class mates (Aussies are generally much less religious than you seppos), or was he just being loud and obnoxious like a lot of American tourists. Australians are usually pretty welcoming people.

[Joe Chi Minh]

34. I wonder if the full story is told in that article.

That doesn't sound like the Ozzies to me.

If any foreigner told me they hated Blair and the UK, I'd be relieved at the first, and by no means surprised by the second or unsympathetic towards it. I prefer good foreigners to bad Brits, any day, and it tends to be the latter who run our country; particularly since the corporatists took over.

[Bouncy Ball]

35. That's what I'm wondering--why aren't they telling them they

are against bush?

And if these American students are FOR bush, well, the abuse still isn't ok, but damn, I think I'd lie and say I wasn't anyway.

[kohodog]

36. My son was in New Zealand for a semester and felt no such discrimination

And NZ tends to be more liberal than Australia. He had no problems, but then again, he joined them in the anti-war demonstrations. He did say that they tended towards an anti-america sentiment which was a bit creepy. Again, that was in 2003 and things may have changed. If he was republican or pro war it might have been different too.

I wonder if the kids political affiliation makes a difference, and that being said, it sounds like there is a problem of respect for individual rights that needs to be addressed.

[rockymountaindem]

37. I go to the University of Toronto,

and in Canada they can be pretty critical of the US. Often much of this is in a jocular manner, and I joke right back and no harm done. Other put-downs are more serious and not very funny. Despite my problems with the current administration, I always defend America. I don't care if some people think America=Bush. I know that's not the case and I'll say so. I've never thought of leaving U of T due to anti-Americanism.

[thespiritualzebra]

41. another thread on this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1581468

[expatriate]

43. I'm American, living in Australia and also an

Australian citizen - just took Australian citizenship in January.

I have had a few incidents where people who were a bit odd decided to take me to task for being American once they heard my American accent, even when I told them that I was violently opposed to all things Bush, did not support the war, did not vote for Bush, etc - one was a chronic drunk, the other an ex-drunk who has been "dry drunk" for years and won't get treatment. Only two other times has someone continued to deride me for being American, and this person was a "feral" - one of those folks who don't bathe or comb their hair and think they're real revolutionaries. I also had a very nasty town eccentric tell me once that I should go back to America, but he's just a nasty little bitch and finds something rude and cruel to say to everyone he encounters. In all these situations, I considered the source.

That's not to say that Australians aren't more than willing to discuss politics, and most of them are opposed to the Bush administration. They can become passionate and voiciferous. Conversely, there are also plenty of Australians who do support John Howard's Liberal Government and believe that the people in the Middle East need to be "kept in line". There are conservative ignorant jackoffs everywhere - it isn't strictly an American thing.

I can imagine that things might get a bit more heated in the universities, considering the youth of the people discussing politics, but as mentioned earlier in the thread, the reference to "seppo" is indeed rhyming slang, not actually calling someone a septic tank - and even if you were called a septic tank, come on! Boo hoo hoo! Sounds to me like a lot of cotton wool wrapped Seppo kids who've had their self-esteems boosted over nothing all their lives coming up against the first criticism they've ever encountered. For all we know, he was telling everyone how great America is, and how Australia sucks because he can't get Hershey bars here, or something along those lines.

So they'll go home and kids from China will come over to Australia and take their places. Thus the universe balances itself.