What is a neoconservative?

[cynatnite]

I've been reading 'Worse than Watergate' by John Dean and he makes a list of what one is. I've got to say it's downright scary to know that these people are in power.

This is the list John Dean has in his book. This book is a must read and I highly recommend it.

1)They agree with Trotsky's idea of a permanent revolution.

Trotsky wrote: "The permanent revolution, in the sense which Marx attached to this concept, means a revolution which makes no compromise with any single form of class rule, which does not stop at the democratic stage, which goes over to socialist measures and to war against reaction from without; that is, a revolution whose every successive stage is rooted in the preceding one and which can end only in complete liquidation."

http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/works/1931-tpv/

2)They identify strongly with the writings of Leo Strauss. (I'm going to hit the library on Monday and do some reading on this guy)

3)They express no opposition to the welfare state and will use it to expand votes and power.

4)They believe in a powerful federal government.

5)They believe the ends justify the means in politics--that hardball in politics is a moral necessity

6)They believe lying is a necessity for the state to survive.

7)They believe facts should only be known by the political elite and withheld from the general public.

8)They believe in preemptive war and the naked use of military force to achieve any desired ends.

9)They openly endorse the idea of an American empire and call for imperialism.

10)They are willing to use force to impose American ideals.

11)They scoff at the founding fathers' belief in neutrality in foreign affairs.

12)They believe 9/11 resulted from a lack of foreign entanglements rather than too many.

13)They are willing to redraw the map of the Middle East by force while supporting Israel.

14)They view civil liberties with suspicion as unnecessary restrictions on federal government.

15)They despise libertarians and dismiss any arguments based on constitutional grounds.

[Lecky]

1. they are the lowest of the low in my book n/t

[Jara sang]

2. Check out books by Irving Kristol as well

William Kristol's father: "Neo-conservatism : The Autobiography of an Idea"

[housewolf]

3. And his wife, Gertrude Himmelfarb

she was a prominent neo-con thinker and writer in her own right

[Jara sang]

8. Wasn't aware of her...

Thanks. The fruit doesn't fall far from the tree now does it?

[kliljedahl]

4. Watch "Power of Nightmares" if you really wanta know

A BBC program we'll never see in the US. If you're not scared shitless after watching it, there's something wrong with you. Available for download here: http://www.archive.org/details/ThePowerOfNightmares


Keith’s Barbeque Central

[cynatnite]

29. It was a good show and made me question everything

this country is doing and more.

It gave a very good picture of these guys and what they are doing aside from what it said about Al Qaeda.

[NeoConsSuck]

31. Your link is not working.

[cynatnite]

33. Try this:

http://www.archive.org/details/ThePowerOfNightmares

[kliljedahl]

35. Works for me

Keith’s Barbeque Central

[Igel]

5. It's rather like making a list of what a 'liberal' is.

I think I'd disagree with a lot of the points you list, if only because they apply to a minority of neocon.

My real problem with the list is that it presupposes that the best person to define a neocon is a progressive. I've seen how avowed neocons define themselves, and how non-neocon conservatives define themselves.

Would we rather be allowed to define ourselves, or accept, oh, a list of the "defining characteristics of a progressive" as compiled by a conservative and published in the National Review?

[unblock]

10. john dean is no progressive. he's a conservative

although, in the neocons' book, any non-neocon is a 'liberal'.

[Igel]

23. Really?

I should google names before I assume I know what side of the political fences s/he's on.

[unblock]

34. note the key difference between conservative and neocon

dean worked in the nixon white house, remember. not too many liberals there. but dean's an old-fashioned conservative, actually interested in smaller government, less intrusion into private lives, the ACTUAL rule of law, etc.

true conservatives who can cut through the neocon smokescreen understand that there's nothing 'conservative' about neocons.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

6. Same as neo-libs. Think Tony Blair, Dick Cheney, and Joe Lieberman.

Throw in a little Bismark and "realpolitik". The repug version of the DLC.

[KlatooBNikto]

7. In short, they hate the U.S.Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

As I have read something about the Godfather of this dangerous group of lunatics, Leo Strauss, let me take the liberty to introduce his ideas to you.He was a jew who escaped the clutches of the Naizs and landed at the University of Chicago sometime in the mid fifties. Almost as soon as he came to this country, he discovered he was a fan of the Hitlerian/Nietzschean concept of a superman,his only quarrel with the Nazis being that he was not included in the Nazi hierarchy of Ubermenschen.From then on he enlarged his Nazi world view by couching the same ideas in Mein Kampf in more palatable American lingo.The Ubermenschen thus became the Elite and the Untermeschen the Masses.He despised the American system of equal rights to people he thought were not deserving, such as blacks,hispanics, Asians etc. His influence, reflected in the extreme vileness of many of his disciples such as Wolfowitz, Ashcroft, Kristol,etc.,has probably poisoned political discourse in our country for a long time.He was a very evil man.

[bluestateguy]

9. I'll give you a few characteristics

1) They tend to be American exceptionalists: the idea that America is "special" with a mission (perhaps even a divine mission) to advance human civilization.

2) They tend to believe in the absolute, unquestioned moral superiority of American values, American culture and American foreign policy actions. We don't make mistakes, unless it was a mistake of not being "tough" enough.

3) They are never satisfied with how much money we spend on defense. They always want more, more and more for the Pentagon. As late as 2003, PNAC was still whining that Bush's defense budget was "inadequate" http://www.newamericancentury.org/defense-20030123.htm.

4) They tend to espouse a phony, pretend intellectualism that is blinded by ideological drivel and commands very little respect from the academic community.

5) They try to project a cheerful, optimistic tone to their arguments. They give war and militarism a happy face.

6) They have little use for international alliances, and little concern for international public opinion.

7) Historically, neoconservatives have espoused moderate positions on social issues (many original neo-cons were Democrats), but this tendency is being muted with time as more evangelical Christians are moving into the neoconservative camp.

[frictionlessO]

11. DU PNAC and Neocon agenda group!!! Its all right here!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=307


Well not in total, but it is a great starting place to reccomend. We could use more movement in there.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

12. Importantly, the term "neo" con is used because many of these folks

used to be Democrats, in fact Trotskyist Socialist type Dems. Nothing in moderation for these folks.

Now that they are Repubs they are all about jackboots across the Middle East.

The whole deal with Leo Strauss is that he was a professor at U. of Chicago and a number of the influential neocons, such as Wolfowitz I believe, were his students and proteges.

[kliljedahl]

13. I thought it was "Neo" to differentiate

between them and the "old" conservatives. Those who believed in fiscal responsibility, small government, keeping the government out of the citizen's lives. What the Libertarians are now. The Neo-Cons are for none of those.


Keith’s Barbeque Central

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

15. No, many used to be Dems. Hence "neo" or "new" conservative.

[kliljedahl]

19. I know Irving Kristol was, who else was there?

Not flaming, just asking.


Keith’s Barbeque Central

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

20. Wolfowitz is the most prominent one. He is after all the "architect" of

Iraqnam.

Excellent article by Jay Bookman reprinted from the Atlanta Journal Constitution on key neocons:

http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0930-08.htm

Excellent streaming video PBS Frontline program on the topic.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/iraq/view/


William Kristol, Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, among others...

[kliljedahl]

21. Thanks, copying & printing the AJC article as I type

Bookmarked the other for later viewing.


Keith’s Barbeque Central

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

24. A little more info specifically related to Strauss.

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0515-09.htm

http://www.lewrockwell.com/woods/woods28.html

[kliljedahl]

26. You obviously know more about this than I do

Is the portrayal of him & his disciples accurate in "Power of Nightmares"?


Keith’s Barbeque Central

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

28. Actually I haven't seen that yet. I don't care about Strauss. He's not

the one driving the policy now.

[NeoConsSuck]

32. And right behind him is Richard Pearle

[DanCa]

14. arent they also embryo lovers without exception?

I refuse to use the terms christian and pro life to describe the neo nazis

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

17. No. The neocons are the people like Wolfowitz/Perle/Kristol/Feith.

They are all about foreign policy and geopolitical strategy.

(good background article on the key neocons below)
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0930-08.htm

It is completely separate from the fundie social agendas promoted by shrubco to shore up a core Christian fundie vote. That is just a core group of voters that shrub and Rove decided were crucial to their election strategy.

[not systems]

18. no many are atheists.

Neo-cons and fundies are two different freaks in the
Republican freak show.

[DanCa]

22. Thanks for the information

I am abit surprised to hear that though.

[julialnyc]

27. there is the Wolfowitz show and the Santorum show

both scary, but different goals (blow up the world or picket hospices)

[Ready2Snap]

16. A neo-con is

simply a fascist that was picked before it was ripe.

[lala_rawraw]

25. In two words: elitist scum

[kaitykaity]

30. They believe in using religion to control the "children"

even though they are not religious themselves.

Read Shadia Drury's book, Leo Strauss and the
American Right. She lays it out beautifully.