Should Dems give up on the Flag Burning Amendment? Will it hurt us

[KoKo]

in '06? Seems Repugs have boxed us in by giving us another War where "flag burning" is tied to anti-war protestors from the 60's and is a hot button out there with many Americans that the Repugs have always kept whipped up about this.

EDITED: (Said Supremes can overturn it incorrectly in my original post but the States instead will have to take a vote on it and that means we can pressure our State Legislators) And that will take some time.

This is a hard one for me. I'm totally against the Amendment because it is a violation of our right to protest and puts more ammunition in Bush's already approching Fascism tactics towards protestors of his Regime. And how do we know that the Bushista's won't view any person from a group they don't like carrying an American flag as a "desecrator?" I can imagine stunts pulled where a "plant" in a peace group burns a flag and all the innocent protestors are charged and thrown in jail.

BUT....to vote against it could cause terrible ads to be run against Democratic House members running in '06. :shrug:

[tk2kewl]

1. An Amendment to The Constitution *is* The Constitution

And SCOTUS has no power to overturn it

[KoKo]

8. I edited my post to reflect that the States will have to vote on the

Amendment. Thanks for reminding me. :eyes:

[mediaman007]

2. This will not hurt us/the flag amendment is childish...

Either your for it, or against it.

[tritsofme]

3. I wouldn't worry about this

The Flag Amendment has passed the House every session since 1990, and it has always died in the Senate.

I don't think has ever been used effectively in a campaign.

And besides, in a time of war, $60 a barrel oil, and an economy on the fritz, I think the flag burning will be the least of voters' worries.

And BTW a court cannot strike down an ammendment, another important reason not to let this pass. They can't rule the Constitution to be unconstitutional.

[KoKo]

11. Yes....I edited my post about this to reflect States have to vote on it...

and it will take too long. Thanks.

[tritsofme]

15. It would probably be ratified by the states, if it passed the Senate.

All 50 states have sent non-binding messages to Congress telling them to pass a flag amendment, and if it got out of Congress I have no doubt it would be ratified by the states.

That's why its so important that this never gets out of the Senate.

[trumad]

4. We've got better adds

such as they're trying to destroy Social Secuity.

[still_one]

5. It is a distraction issue

what the dems should do is change the agenda, to an energy policy, DSM, what are the administrations specific goals in Iraq, medicare, deficiet, etc.

[Karmageddon]

9. Definite distraction - dems should answer questions about this by asking..

...why the republican led congress is wasting time and taxpayer money on this when there are so many vastly more important things to worry about, and then offer up a list of *real* issues that the repugs are ignoring.

Iraq
Deficit
49 million uninsured Americans
Jobs
Education
runaway brides
gay marriage
Michael Jackson
... oh wait, never mind those last 3

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

6. Not if they believe in the First Amendment. Why cater to the fascists?

The repugs trot this nonsense out every time there's a war that's going badly for them. Unfortunately, the pantywaist wing of the Dems usually sign on to save their pathetic asses.

[elehhhhna]

7. Who cares? To me it's a non-issue.

Certainly anyone who wishes to desicrate the flag could come up with a creative alternative method.

Wet, freeze, and sledgehammer come to mind. Any other ideas?

[Devlzown]

10. I don't think it's ever hurt anyone before.

I can't think of any Dem who's lost because he/she didn't vote for the amendment.

[Lowell]

12. Passing an amendment

is a long drawn out process. It has to be approved by a supermajority, unless they change the rules again, and then must go to the states for approval. Look how long the ERA has been in the mill. This will not happen, it is just a lame attempt to draw everyone's attention to this administration's many failures.

[BOSSHOG]

13. No, as long as our flag is flying, we have the right to burn it

Constitutional liberties and freedom are foreign concepts to conservatives. Fight it long and hard. What liberty will they seek to take away next?

[K-W]

14. Dont get sucked into the right wing lies.

Yes, when called on the phone and asked about it, alot of Americans support a ban on flag burning, but that is a far cry from Americans voting on the issue, which, by and large, they dont.

Most Americans see this for what it is a superficial gesture and waste of time, even if they dont see how it mocks the idea of freedom.

[Karmageddon]

16. Guess what the correct way to dispose of a flag is?

Faded (Old) Glory

http://longisland.about.com/cs/governement/a/flag_disposal.htm

Disposing of an Unserviceable Flag
Since September 11, 2001 more people than ever have been flying the United States flag in front of their homes. Flags, like most items made of fabric, are subject to wear and tear. Flags, unlike, let's say, your well-worn jeans, can't simply be thrown out. According to the Flag Code, "when a flag has served its useful purpose, it should be destroyed, preferably by burning" (Our Flag: http://longisland.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=longisland&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.legion.org%2F%3Fsection%3Dour_flag%26subsection%3Dflag_faq%26amp%3Bcontent%3Dflag_faq%235">Frequently Asked Questions, The American Legion).

Many American Legion posts hold Disposal of Unserviceable Flag Ceremonies on Flag Day, June 14th. Following is a list of local American Legion posts on Long Island.

[tritsofme]

17. This is a common misconception about the Flag Amendment

All it would do is give Congress the power (if they so choose) to ban flag desecration.

They would get to decide what that meant, and what penalties can be imposed.

I oppose it, but I just want to clear up misconceptions.

[FreedomAngel82]

25. Yep

If this bill also passes you can kiss goodbye tshirts, napkins, stamps, teddy bears/stuffed animals, hats, bandana's. All of that is a big no-no to the flag as well. I guess that means no more fourth of July parties.

[AndyTiedye]

18. Flag's Already Desecrated From Having Republicans Wrap Themselves In It!

They even got blood all over it. (Not theirs, of course).

What are we supposed to do with a flag in such sorry condition?

The U.S. Flag Code states, "The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning".

[MrBenchley]

19. Why not give up and become Republicans?

The GOP is going to attack every Democrat as unpatriotic anyway in 06....

Instead we should ask often and loudly, why do Republicans hate the Constitution? This makes the fifth or sixth amendment I've heard lately from the nutcase right.

[LynnTheDem]

20. Does it hurt America? Would the US Constitution then be taking away

a freedom? Does it expose US hypocrisy?

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

[KoKo]

21. BTW...Ed Schultz asked this on his radio program today....

:shrug:

[AlienGirl]

22. This amendment is the camel's nose

The Repubs are trying to ram this amendment through so that they can prove they *can* change the Constitution, and so that changing the Constitution no longer seems like such a big deal. I think this amendment would be followed by other, more serious amendments restricting freedom.

Tucker

[FreedomAngel82]

23. I know people who are against it

I know of several people who are against it on this Christian board I frequent. Mostly for the free speech aspect. This is just a ridiculous bill and they've got nothing else they can do (heh).

[Eric J in MN]

24. No, because the majortiy of Americans are against amending

the Constitution, and because passage wouldn't be the end.

Politicians would proceed to outdo each other in how broad to define the crime, and how severe to make the punishment.

[fujiyama]

26. No

We didn't give into the gay marriage amendment because that was bullshit.

Same thing here. More shit to get us distracted from other real important issues.

Amending the constitution should be a serious matter and the republicans are making a mockery of it.

Flag burning may be offensive, but it is a form of free speech. IMO it's not the most effective way of getting an opinion across, but hey the flag is ultimately a piece of cloth. What conservatives and others supporting this amendment don't understand is that it's more about what the flag represents. I'm more upset by those in power burning the constitution.

[chaska]

27. check the numbers and if we don't have the votes then every Dem should...

abstain. This will deliver the message that we are getting bent over the table by Republicans on issues like this. That we can't vote against it and shouldn't have to vote on it at all.

[KoKo]

28. I kinda go along with you "chaska." Principle is more important?

:shrug: We've given up everything so far to "compromise with Repugs."

When do we get OUR TURN?

[retnavyliberal]

29. Actually, it is a flag desecration amendment.

If it passes, I am going to have a lot of fun reporting people flying torn and tattered flags, flying flags that are unlit at night, faded flag magnets on suvs and flags as clothing :-)

[KoKo]

32. Good Point! A Repug friend of mines son who is Army Reserve used to

wear "undershorts/boxer shorts" around the neighborhood with the American Flag blazed on them. He was a runner who competed in the NYCity Marathons and in Marathon's for runners all over the US. Yet, around his neighborhood as an Army Reservist he wore the American flag on his running shorts.

It offended me..but his Mother.. a proud Repuglian and staunch Catholic in her opinion that women didn't have the right to "choose" thought it was okay that her son ran in shorts that to me were "desecrating the American flag." :shrug: Go figure....Today...Up means Down..and Down Means Up and who the hell knows what's going on out there today with this kind of disconnect. :eyes:

[Guaranteed]

30. HELL FUCKING NO.

Never. EVER. Should this issue be "given up on."

That's the most cowardly thing we could ever do.

Speak up for what's right, god dammit.

[DanCa]

31. Were backed in a corner on this

Theres bigger fish to fry right now. A horrible war in Iraq, No healt care for struggling families, democrats getting kicked out of churches, standing up for gays, restoring envioronmental laws that the chimp has written out, standing up for stem cell and reproductive choice. But you know what the sheeple and the rnc are going to focus on.

Its the damned if you do damned if you dont song the repukes love to seperate us on. I for one am not going to dance to this tune.

[Guaranteed]

33. What? No way. We want a chance to get our message out, right?

Well, here it is. Let them know what we stand for. Let them know that we don't tolerate fascism, that we believe in REAL freedom.