Justice Brennan quote on flag-burning. Something to chew on.

[Bouncy Ball]

We do not consecrate the flag by punishing its desecration, for in doing so we dilute the freedom that this cherished emblem represents. ~Justice William J. Brennan, for the Majority US Supreme Court Decision, 3 July 1989

Hmmm.

And just because I thought this was interesting, Brennan in 1980 on the military (it's prophetic):

"The concept of military necessity is seductively broad, and
has a dangerous plasticity. Because they invariably have the
visage of overriding importance, there is always a temptation
to invoke security "necessities" to justify an encroachment
upon civil liberties. For that reason, the military-security
argument must be approached with a healthy skepticism."

I've been reading up on Brennan. What an interesting man.

[Bouncy Ball]

1. Kick

[OldLeftieLawyer]

2. He was a great Justice

He has an interesting history, being one of New Jersey's great gifts to us - along with Sinatra, Springsteen, and certain fumes that cannot be duplcated anywhere else. Eisenhower appointed him, thinking he was getting a real tight conservative, and what he got - this used to happen with some regularity on the Supreme Court, something in the office ennobling those who took the seats, opening their minds - a brilliant, unyielding liberal who was, along with William O. Douglas and Thurgood Marshall, my first legal heroes.

I was fortunate enough to have been present in the Court when they were all seated. Heady experience for a law student.

[Bouncy Ball]

3. Wow, what great memories those must be!!

Have you ever written them down?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

6. Better than that

I told them to my captive law students when I taught. They had to listen.

[Bouncy Ball]

7. I would have loved it!

[OldLeftieLawyer]

10. They did

They especially liked my story about where Judge Crater's body really ended up.

[hootinholler]

11. Ok, now then a pointer to that story would be nice.

I'm totaly ignorant about Judge Crater.

-Hoot

[OldLeftieLawyer]

15. Ah, you're in for a great mystery

google "Judge Crater."

[hootinholler]

17. So, where did he end up? n/t

[nicknameless]

24. You can tell OLL was a professor. He/she is making us look it up. ;)

[hootinholler]

25. I did look it up, but,

No speculation as to where he ended up. I'm thinking under agoalpost sommers.

-Hoot

[nicknameless]

26. The most recent story about it that I could find:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8087942/

Vanished & never found. Grouped with Hoffa and D. B. Cooper.
... Gotta say, I'm kind of disappointed. I like your goalpost theory better.

[SquireJons]

30. He's living across the street from me.

And he's looking pretty good for a man over 110 years old.

Well, maybe not. $5,000 was a lot of money in 1930, but not enough to live on for the rest of your life. Was there any construction going on at Tammany Hall at the time? I'd look there.

[nicknameless]

32. Hehehe :D

But,OldLeftieLawyer's post #10 alludes to his body having been found...
"They especially liked my story about where Judge Crater's body really ended up."

We did our homework OLL. What's the story? ...The mystery continues...

[kohodog]

8. Your take on Rehnquist/O'Conner retirements?

Personally I thoughtsome of them were hanging on for a change in 04, but retirements will be limited until 08. At least I hope so. If Rehnquist stays a while it puts less pressure on the rest. If hr retires he will be replaced with someone more conservative, but that will only make a difference occasionally.

The next one will change the course of history if it happens under Bush.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

9. In the history of the Supreme Court,

there's a wonderful strain of people behaving quite differently once they're on the High Court. Lately, of course, that strain has been conspicuously absent. But, when you consider the matter of Earl Warren - a right-wing California Republican governor, an interim appointment, as I recall - and he came to the court at Eisenhower's behest just as Brown v. Board of Education was coming up.

The Warren court will be remembered - at least by people like me - as a shining time in our country's short history.

So, because things are so bad here now, and because the quality of the jurists whose names are mentioned as possible Justices is so limited, and because I am loathe to give up on the deep belief I have that people really are good and that they will inevitably do the right thing (this, in spite of 30 years of practicing law), I am trying not to think in terms of liberal or conservative, since those labels really have become meaningless and are used only to divide, which is, I think, why the Other Side uses them so ::: ahem ::: liberally.

There are, if you look closely, others who might retire before O'Connor - who's gonna stay until she dies, I bet - and Rehnquist, who seems to be doing better than he was. There's a lot people aren't saying in public.

[kohodog]

12. Very true, but in these Orwellian days where up is down I worry.

And I hope you're right about Sandra and even Rehnquist. I also know there's alot people aren't saying. I did lose respect for this court in 2000, and want to see it get better, less partisan. I feel this administration is not likely to appoint anyone who will write surprise opinions and would just as soon see things remain the same until 08.

Then again, if a huge fight shuts down the Senate Bushco's agenda will be slowed too.

[zinndependence]

19. ahhhhh....the Warren Era

I consider myself a huge S.C. geek (I teach Poli Sci so it works for me)

....could we ever be so lucky to have a similar Court? My favorites were all from that era....Brennan, Douglas, Marshall....

I know this seems odd but...I actually enjoy reading S.C. opinions, especially opinions from that period. the "good old days!"

[Jersey Devil]

13. Haven't been around as long as you leftie

but I've been around long enough to have the kind of appreciation for that court that you do. I remember as though it was yesterday when my ConLaw Professor came into the lecture hall practically doing backflips because an article he had written had been quoted at length by the majority in Roe v Wade, released that day.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

14. That was January 22, 1973

If you were taking Constitutional Law, you were a first-year law student, same as I.

Good thing you didn't go into math .......

[Jersey Devil]

16. Well, hell, then you were misnamed as "old"

You're just a young sprout like me. Hey, there's still plenty of fire left in the furnace.

[johnaries]

21. If you ever write a book, let us know.

I'll buy it! I bet most of DU would, also.

[SquireJons]

27. ...this used to happen with some regularity on the Supreme Court

Yes! What a fine tradition it was.

Sandra Day O'Connor
Anthony Kennedy
David Souter
John Paul Stevens
Lewis Powell, Jr.
Harry Blackmun
William Brennan, Jr.
Earl Warren
...and even Warren Burger to some extent. All were nominated by republican presidents, and all but Burger turned out to be far too liberal from the right wing point of view. Ah, those were the days. Unfortunately, the pugs seem to have come up with a solution to that and his name is Clarence Thomas.

[hootinholler]

4. What a great quote.

[Bouncy Ball]

5. Isn't it?

I accidentally found it in a kid's book about flags today while doing some research for a class.

[zinndependence]

18. I'm a huge S.C. geek....

and a Poli Sci teacher. Brennan is perhaps my favorite justice.

I frequently place quotes from favorite S.C. opinions on the overhead for my kids to read.

my favorite quotes are from:

Texas v. Johnson
Tinker v. Des Moines
Board of Education v. Barnette
Brown v. Board

The quote you mentioned is one I use!

Nat Hentoff has some great books dealing with First Amendment rights that you might like.

[Maraya1969]

20. Anyone see the Daily Show tonight? They showed some document

that described the way to dispose of a flag that is in deteriorated condition. Guess how?

Burn it! :rofl:

[Mythsaje]

22. That's how my dad taught me...

He was a Vietnam era Marine Corps vet and he told me that if a flag was damaged, it was to be burnt.

[SquireJons]

28. Way back when...

The wing-nuts were arguing for an amendment against flag burning(1980's), I read an interesting op-ed piece. A police man came upon three men standing around a metal drum and were burning an American flag. The first man was a veteran, the second was a punk-anarchist, the third was just an ordinary man. The veteran said he was disposing of the damaged flag in the proper way, the punk-anarchist said he was protesting American policy in central America and the third was just tying to keep warm. The cop didn't know what to do, under the new (proposed) Constitutional Amendment. Funny how times are a changin'

...back.

[Maraya1969]

33. The same with my father - he was an immigrant and very proud

to be an American citizen. So proud that he installed this HUGE flagpole in front of the house( :crazy: <<< that's me as a teenager )

He taught us how to put the flag up and how to take it down and how to fold it. You were never supposed to let it touch the ground and you were never supposed to leave it out after dark We all took turns folding the flag with my father. And I do remember learning that flags should be disposed of by burning.

[Broken_Hero]

23. sounds good...

I will have to put him on my TO READ list, thanks...:)

[AX10]

29. kick

He is right. The only desecration of the flag is done by those who look to curtail our freedoms.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

31. Don't forget

It's only fabric, red, white, and blue fabric, and it's only a symbol.

What it represents, among other things, is free speech.

Protect the symbol to squelch the thing it represents?