I was surprised to hear Rev. Billy Graham say this :

[kentuck]

On the Hardball show with Chris Matthews, he said that war "did not cause more deaths" because these people would die sometime anyway. He said he prayed for President Bush and admitted that he really did not understand war. How could the major religious figure in America say such a thing? How can he reconcile those remarks with the words of Jesus Christ? Has he lost his way at this late stage in life?

[Wapsie B]

1. Franklin's probably

filling his head with all the crap from the neocons.

[fasttense]

2. That makes no sense. Everyone will die sometime.

So it is OK to kill them before the natural end of their life? If that's the case then abortion is fine by him.

[Misunderestimator]

3. You forget that he has no education.

I don't think he's lost his way at all... he's always been like this.

[whistle]

4. Billy Graham lost his way at an early stage in life when he jumped

...into bed with all of those republican presidents.

[still_one]

5. that is an inane comment

there is NO questions that not only did the war CAUSE MORE CIVILLIAN DEATHS, but we were the largest contributor

[Postman]

6. They died prematurely as a result of unjust violence..

how does that square with his religion, logic, morality?

What a total fraud.

[Tom Rinaldo]

7. "and admitted that he really did not understand war"

That is very very different than the normal Christian Right type comments about "God being on our side" "and doing the Lord's will".

I give Rev. Graham slack on these comments. Theologically inclined people think about all kinds of things that don't usually come up in dinner time conversations. Things like free will and determinism. The bottom line, for the religious, is that God causes death. He causes childhood leukemia and he causes War. Or he allows them, or he always knew they would happen, or some other such nuance of theology.

"war "did not cause more deaths" because these people would die sometime" is literally true of course. Now whether War causes untimely or premature or meaningless or cruel deaths gets us back into theology, and those are the terms someone like Graham thinks in.

I admire at least his humility in saying that he does not understand wars. I don't either.

[Sgent]

8. What do you expect

"Kill them all, and let G-d sort them out."

The above are the words of a Pope during the Crusades, what makes this so unique?

[Tom Rinaldo]

14. That's kind of my point

I didn't read all of Graham's remarks, just what is mentioned in the OP. The equivalent of the Christian Right throughout history has always glorified war and justified it on religious grounds. That's not what I saw in Graham's comments. The Right never says "they don't understand War", they claim to understand the need for war all too well. Graham accepts the reality of War, obviously, but that isn't the same as glorifying or even apologizing for it .

Graham doesn't claim to be a pacifist. The man is in his 80's and ill, I am sure he is thinking about mortality, both his own and the theological reasons for mortality. Ministers have always preached that is was "God's will" to bereaved families when someone dies prematurely. Some die in accidents, some die in wars, as humans we should strive to prevent both, but we will still all die. I really think that is the space Graham is coming from here on this.

[goclark]

15. That was my view of the remarks too

I think he is stuck on the fact that "everyone must die" sometime.

He is really preparing to die soon so I think he sees it as "so what,to die is the price we pay to live and it is going to be beautiful ."

I don't think he meant it was a good thing to die in a war. If he believed that, he would not have said he didn't understand War.

[KittyWampus]

18. It'd Be Nice To Have Direct & Full Quotes. Rather Than Responding

to a DUer's version of what was said.

It might be dead accurate... but it'd be nice to know.

[ComerPerro]

9. wow. So, since everyone dies anyway, it doesn't matter how or when?

Did I read that right?

[tanyev]

10. That is bizarre.

Yes, everybody dies, but there is a huge difference between someone dying a natural death vs having their life violently taken from them. Call it sin, karma, whatever, it creates evil and anyone who values the teachings of Jesus should be adamantly opposed to it.

[karynnj]

11. This is totally lacking in sense and compassion

murder is not a crime because they are going to die sometime anyway. Also, can't this apply to abortion as well - they're going to get born then die some time. This is quite seriously the most thoughtless, compassionless statement I ever heard. Would he say this about the deaths of our soldiers? to their parent's faces?

[goclark]

13. I heard him say that too

I was shocked!

But when I heard the rest of the remarks, they deidn't seem to fit.

I think he was thrown by the shitty Tweety.

[Straight Shooter]

12. Huh? Culture of life, what about all the children that won't be born?

Someone dies in war in their youth, many of whom will thus never marry and procreate. The children that will never be born, don't they count in this culture of life? What about the children of those who die, will they grow up and refuse to have children because, "What's the use, the world is horrid and filled with war"? To cause a birth not to occur, doesn't that go against the so-called culture of life?

Sounds like Graham is saying it's all fate, that this is God's chosen time for those people to die.

FWIW, I think Graham's "way" has always been his way. Nothing to lose there, AFAIC. He's charismatic and he attached himself to all the right powerful people on his climb up the ladder, but I don't think he's anything to write home about.

edit to pontificate a bit more

[Zorbuddha]

16. Untimely death is not the equivalent of eventual death...

no matter what metric or religious ethic you use to evaluate.

Life is sacred, he should at least believe that.

[Neshanic]

17. He had nice talks with Nixon about "the Jews". He's a real keeper.

Scumbag.

[KittyWampus]

19. Yeah, Jessie Jackson Had Some Nice Comments About Hymietown

and Senator Byrd used to have some interesting concepts about the KKK.

[Neshanic]

20. There's serial scumbags and then others. He's old school bad.

[TWiley]

21. That is the problem with Christians, They rationalize everything.

They do not need proof of any sort as they have been brainwashed to belive everything the preacher says on faith alone.

"war "did not cause more deaths" because these people would die sometime anyway."

Now, if those were white babies being aborted instead of dark skinned muslims being murdered, what would his comment be?

[yurbud]

22. Graham best of bad lot--remember anti-Semitic cracks with Nixon?

I thought he was a good guy until I heard that stuff, then I realized he's just a smoother operator than Pat Robertson and Benny Hinn.

Hillbilly Hitler art:



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