If you dislike all Christians, you are a Bigot

[Tsiyu]

So just look at yourself in the mirror and accept that.

Some of you come on here with your holier-than-thou bullshit, thinking it is so "hip" and sophisticated to slam all people of one particular faith.

You make me sick , because you are projecting your own hatred and ignorance on a vast group of people. If that's not the definition of a bigot, I don't know what is.

I used to be a Christian. I still believe in the rules and tenets Jesus Christ spoke of and will ALWAYS try to love my neighbor as myself, do unto others, care about the poor and the sick and those in prison. Some Christians make me ill, but there are many Christians who do more than the Christian-bashers here to make this a better world.

My father is a devout Christian, as an example. He loathes George Bush. My parents are one of the only white couples living in a black neighborhood. One of his best friends is a black man. When I was a little kid, he took us to the library, to the Jewish temple, to many places to enlighten us. When our Episcopal Church in Syracuse refused to let some "hippies" come in to worship one Sunday morning in the 60's, my parents left that church.

My father goes to prisons and has a prison ministry. He would give a needy person the shirt off his back. He's not perfect by any means, but he is one example of a Christian. How dare anyone say "all Christians are this" or "all Christians are that?"

Get over yourself. You are not "cool" because you bash people of a certain faith. You are a pig, without even the sense of that pig.

[Zenlitened]

1. How about if I dislike Christianity? Islam? Religion in general?

:shrug:

[Tsiyu]

20. I was referring to the humans involved

not their beliefs.

[Zenlitened]

38. So I can dislike their beliefs, check. But I can't dislike them for...

... holding those beliefs. Kind of a 'Hate the Christianity, Love the Christian' sort of thing?

[arwalden]

67. I Think You're On To Something.

[Tsiyu]

74. And you honestly believe all chrisitans have the same beliefs?

Does that mean that peaceful Muslims are now just like the Taliban? Do you not see how ignorant that assumption is?

[Zenlitened]

102. Is there nothing in common then? Are there no core beliefs...

... central to a religion? I think you might be confusing the practice of a religion with its central tenets. Or are there no central tenets at all?

And if that's the case, it seems to me we descend right into the arena of deciding who is a "real" christian or not. So take heart! Maybe you are not a "real" christian at all, and no longer need to identify with those who have hijacked your religion.

Maybe you can begin calling yourself a "Jesusian," since today's Christians, by and large, give no appearance that they care much about the guy said to have delivered the Sermon on the Mount.

[illflem]

37. I don't dislike Christens

But feel that anyone who believes in some invisible god who has never shown itself is in deep need of therapy. Praying is just talking to yourself and serves no usefully purpose but to make a person think there is some higher being looking out for everyone separately.
Opiate for the masses. God and all religions is just the elite's way to attempt control of humanity.

[FreedomAngel82]

72. And you know this how?????

[Telly Savalas]

89. Explain how liberation theology served to oppress...

Latin Americans.

[Rainbowreflect]

100. It must be nice to be so superior.

To know all the answers & know how foolish the rest of us are.

[youthere]

2. ooooh-this should be good.

:popcorn:

[bryant69]

3. I agree

I have difficulty understand the benefits some derive from bashing religious belief.

I mean the larger philosophical point I can understand even if I don't agree with it (that being, that Religion is what is holding American back, and if we are going to make any real progress dealing with our problems, it needs to be eliminated).

But many anti-Religion threads are just rhetorical bomb throwing, with no real purpose it seems.

Bryant
Checke it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[JuniperLea]

4. oh, i don't slam ALL people of ANY section of the population

only the jerks in ALL segments.

i have no problem with people who walk the walk they talk. if you call yourself a christian, then by golly you better act like one.

so tell me, is your striking out in anger very christ-like?

[phylny]

5. (FYI, Jesus displayed anger.) n/t

[JuniperLea]

14. when?

while on the cross? or anger towards those were were judging others?

[phylny]

22. Two times come to mind

(and then I have to run out to work).

1) John 2:13-17
2) Mark 3:1-6

[JuniperLea]

51. those examples are both involving going against god's laws

he was angry because some people went against god's laws. and especially to those who claimed to believe then ignored the laws.

god gave us all free will to accept him or not. that is our god given right. you can't force anyone to believe anything.

jesus took pity on those who showed anger against him or god. he didn't ever get angry back, which was my point. he did get angry with those who professed to believe in god then went against all the teachings. point two.

[Tsiyu]

80. News Flash: I'm not Jesus n/t

[JuniperLea]

85. news flash

the word 'christian' means to lead a life that is 'christ-like'.

[FreedomAngel82]

82. Don't forget the time at the temple

[JuniperLea]

87. my point exactly...

read the passage

[CBGLuthier]

24. In the temple, the moneychangers nt

[bryant69]

17. So Christians should be Door-mats in your opinion?

Convienent.

What I suspect the other poster was referrng to was when Christ cleared the Temple of the Moneylenders

[JuniperLea]

52. remember turning the other cheek?

no, not door-mats. just walk the talk, that's all.

[kick-ass-bob]

21. it's not very liberal to exclude people because of what they believe,

either.

[FreedomAngel82]

75. Yes it is

They didn't swear and they watched their tounge. God never said to hold your emotions inside.

[DeepModem Mom]

6. Thanks again, buddyhollysghost. nt

[atreides1]

7. Not All Christians, Just the Fantical Taliban Type

Who, when you think about are not really Christian at all.

I agree with what you say, not all Christians are blind and deaf to the needs of others. But it seems it's the Christian Taliban that gets all the press coverage, and the down side is that's those are
the Christians that the majority get to see.

Perhaps those like your father need to come out into the public eye and show that the Falwell and Dobson types do not speak for all
Christians, and show that these men and their followers are no better
then the Pharisees of Jesus's time. That they do not worship a God of love and forgiveness, but the God of money and personal gain.

And those that berate all Christians, are as you say, bigots. Which makes them no better then the group they attack.

[Tsiyu]

33. They are in the public eye

they are all around you. But true Christians don't advertise their good deeds "Don't let your left hand know what your right hand is doing"

It's just like people who watch the MSM and claim Kerry never said anything about this subject or that subject. They never took the time to dig any deeper.

Not very intelligent or "deep" is it?

[FreedomAngel82]

96. Right

Don't forget Matthew 6. http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=matthew%206&version=31

[FreedomAngel82]

84. With them

I've never seen them actually talk about the things Jesus did. They always quote scriptures past Jesus or they do the old testament.

[dogday]

8. As a Christian, I feel like the minority here at DU

I am not angry just concerned that the Freepers have given the word Christian a bad rap. Du posters are slamming anything Christian now and that concerns me.

We must remember, one bad apple does not spoil the whole bunch. I won't slam you, your race, your beliefs, your sexual preference, your religion--Please don't slam me for mine....

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Just Me]

35. Oh, come here,...

:hug: Don't let buggars get to you.

[youthere]

43. I don't get angry because of the

posts slamming Christians. I understand that in 99% of the cases they are referring to the uberchristianists of the right wing. Of course there is that remaining 1% that I just chalk to "the bad apple" thing you mentioned. (yep, they're here on DU too.)

[JuniperLea]

76. in end times

you will be persecuted for my name's sake... what's the big surprise?

[Modem Butterfly]

9. They'll know we're Xians by our ANGER!!!!!

In all seriousness, I've never seen anything like what you're describing on DU. Most DUers go overboard catering to Xian sensibilities, IMHO. But I do think that if Xians have a problem with the actions of other Xians, they need to spend their time and energy working on those problems, not railing at those of us who point them out.

[undergroundpanther]

18. You go butterfly

Christians need to get the Satans out of thier own church before they bitch about how rude non believers who don't want to play Christian feel when put upon by a domineering religion that demands followers to evangelize the world..

[dogday]

29. We are not talking about all Christians,we are talking about

the Christians of this forum who are tired of being encompassed with a group that has gone astray. We are not like that and we resent being grouped with them. You have your beliefs, but you do what most do who are biased, you judge the whole group on the actions of a few...

[bryant69]

30. Interesting

"Most DUers go overboard catering to Xian sensibilities, IMHO."

That's may be true, but I think most DUers would be happy to not talk about religion at all. It's not a large number of people who bring up these religious posts - but those who do tend to slam Religion.

I do think it's easier to be an Atheist than a Christian on Democratic Underground (although certainly it's the other way in most other situations). I also think it's easier to be an agnostic than either one.

As for the last bit it's a bit of a duckblind isn't it? It lets you make any criticism of Religion (fair or unfair) you like, while we shouldn't be able to respond until Religion is completely fixed? That doesn't seem likely.

[erinlough]

61. The person who brought this post was not bashing religious people

and this is the way I usually see it done. It is usually the religious people who start these IMHO. I am always amazed because I think it is clear how it is going to turn out...bickering, division. Wouldn't it be easier to leave religion out of it?

:shrug:

[bryant69]

66. I see the total opposite

In my opinion it's usually those who don't like religion who start these kinds of arguments - did you see the post today about how Christians wouldn't accept a black Jesus (Presumably due to racism?)

Be interesting to do a statistical survey and find out who really does start the most of these posts.

Bryant

[Tsiyu]

68. And that post, friends, is what led to THIS post! n/t

[Zenlitened]

88. THAT thread? Are you kidding me? THAT thread?

Unbelievable. Taking a quick glance, the only unabashedly blanket condemnation was made by someone who is defending your premise in this thread. And then he/she amended the post to note it was sarcasm.

Unreal. Can I dislike you because I don't feel you're perceiving reality accurately?

[bryant69]

118. Maybe I should clarify since I made the post you are referring to

My contention is that real purpose of that post was to paint Christians as Racists. Or modern Christianity as racist.

Obviously if an anyone posted "Christians are Racists" his post would probably be blocked, so they figured a quick way around it by posting on whether or not Jesus was Black or not. But the underlying meaning is pretty clear.

[Zenlitened]

124. And are you not capable of seeing that the post is a discussion...

... of the public face of christianity in America today?

How many caveats, modifiers and excuse-me's must a poster attach before discussing the dominant, right-wing force that modern christianity has become in this country?

[beam me up scottie]

107. ONE POST ? ! ?

This drama queen act was because of ONE post ?
You cry and scream and rant and call DU'ers bigots because you read ONE post you didn't like ?

YOU are the bigot.

[Tsiyu]

111. Thank you. I respectfuly disagree

[beam me up scottie]

128. Right. Because you don't care if you offend the real victims by pretending

to be one of them.

Nice.

[Zenlitened]

115. Pretty incredible, huh? Stirring up an argument just to get that...

... "Help, I'm being persecuted" fix going, it seems to me.

[beam me up scottie]

123. We can't go one day without hearing the screams of the "persecuted" ?

You'd think they'd show some class and sensitivity towards all of the REAL victims on this board.

I'm sure the victims of racism and homophobia just LOVE to listen to this every day.

[Zenlitened]

127. Victims of homophobia? Why, that's CRAZY talk!

"Christian News Wire: Gays are disturbed, crazy"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3966252&mesg_id=3966252

[beam me up scottie]

133. I saw that. WE NEED MORE WOOD !!!

The persecuted christians used all of it and the reichwing still has the majority of gays left to crucify.

[erinlough]

81. Maybe that's why we see things differently. I usually ignor those kinds

of posts. This one was so in your face, I just had to click.

[bryant69]

110. Ah. Great

So you ignore religious posts but you know that most of them are started by Christians? Or did I misunderstand?

[erinlough]

129. I ignor most of the posts that are obviously intended to be devisive

whether they are religious or not. I don't know if I made it clear or not or if you misunderstood. I don't care for posts which look like they are designed to start a fight and have no other informational value. Actually I clicked on this one because I thought it might be a joke or a play on words or something. Mostly I am looking for information. During the Pope and Schivo threads I looked at some religious threads because that seemed to be all there were. I was responding from that perspective. But, Hey I could be wrong, who really cares? I'm just one person with one opinion.

[Zenlitened]

69. "... It is usually the religious people who start these..."

That's been my impression as well.

[Modem Butterfly]

73. Well, religion is now tightly enmeshed in politics, and vice versa

That's may be true, but I think most DUers would be happy to not talk about religion at all.

Unfortunately, it's extremely difficult, if not impossible, to separate religion from politics these days, thanks in large part to the Xian right.

It's not a large number of people who bring up these religious posts - but those who do tend to slam Religion.

Well, it is a big target. Religion is responsible for at least as much ill as good, and probably more. And certainly, as a powerful and now political force, it has earned much of the slamming.

I do think it's easier to be an Atheist than a Christian on Democratic Underground

I disagree very strongly on this point.

It lets you make any criticism of Religion (fair or unfair) you like, while we shouldn't be able to respond until Religion is completely fixed?

Actually, it puts the burden on the squarely on the shoulders of those who have taken it on. To complain bitterly about your religion being "hijacked" by the extreme right while simultaneously complaining about those of us who dare point out that the ways its being used by them is hypocritical at best.

[Tsiyu]

41. Can I attack all Muslims

and tell them they have to "fix" the Taliban? Is that really their responsibility? Can I attack all Jews, and tell them they won't be worthy in my eyes until they stop the violence against the Palestinians? PLease!

Can I attack all black or white or brown people because some don't do right by their kids? Can I dislike and hold responsible ALL whites because of what some do?

That is a ridiculous premise to base bashing a religion on...Ridiculous.

[Modem Butterfly]

77. Well, that would be as silly as attacking all Xians

But why on earth shouldn't Muslims be expected to address their own extremists? Who better to get through to those people than their brothers and sisters in the faith?

[Telly Savalas]

98. Why is Cat Stevens more responsible for Osama Bin Laden

than you are?

[Modem Butterfly]

104. Cat Stevens? No. Yusuf Islam? Yes

Because Yusuf Islam has a hope in hell of actually communicating with OBL. He's certainly not going to listen to an infidel woman, is he? It's the same principal behind ending segregation here in the South. Until white people were willing to stand up and say that it was wrong, it continued, and in fact, still continues today in places where white people won't stand up and say that it's wrong.

[Telly Savalas]

113. I wasn't aware he had Osama's cellphone number.

[undergroundpanther]

10. I don't hate YOU you are a person.

I HATE your belief system.Your RELIGION is the problem,not you. A religion is NOT a human being ,you are.Now if you use your belief system to be an ass it's your fault and your religions fault for not teaching any real life morals..

I hate the religion,

And I do not see people as their religions,unless they have decided to so FUSE their identity with their chosen religion,they cease to see ME as a human being too.Love the person hate the sinner can apply to love the human HATE the religion messing with their heads.It goes two ways.
That is why I hate religion,when people cannot separate themselves from their own beliefs which they ensconce as if they cannot be criticized,and take it as a personal attack that someone sees problems with people under the influence of a belief,when they act like jerks and justify it as OK because of their beliefs.I can't go along with that hypocrite crap.Sorry.
I hate religion I hate bigotry.If your identity is so closely tied to these things that you are a Christian first human being second I question your priorities.And I have every right to.

[dogday]

36. How can you say you hate bigotry

and yet be a bigot against religion? Does that mean I have every right to question your agnostic beliefs? Should I tell you that I feel people who have no faith, have no hope? No I shouldn't and you know why? Because we should respect people and their right to do what they want, even to not believe.... Isn't that the American Way?

[undergroundpanther]

60. OK

I am a bigot because I have READ the bible.

I AM bigoted against rape,genocide, torture,marrying off of children,incest,pedophiles, and misogyny woman must submit.. All that onward Christian soldiers and all that jazz. I am bigoted against fighting words like thou shalt not suffer a witch to live (I am pagan)and the idea that men that lie with men like women should be stoned to death because it offends god,or men that wear womens clothes should be stoned to death(I am trans gender).

That book threatens ME personally.Believers in that book have hurt me before.I have no evidence they are not wising up soon when once a month a transgendered person or people are murdered in this country.
So of course I am bigoted against a book and belief system actively promoting the abuse and torture and death of ME and people like me.

[dogday]

79. What does all that have to do with this

I believe in the Teachings of Jesus Christ who said love one another as you would yourself. I respect your right to not believe, and you should respect my right to believe.

My beliefs do not include the Torture, rape, incest or being stoned to death.

My beliefs do include treating people nice, not judging, helping those less fortunate, and loving my family. I just don't see how you can equate the two...

[undergroundpanther]

97. Because BOTH are in your bible

Both are sactioned by YOUR god.

The bible has the Beatitudes but it also has the book of Joshua and Revalations.What part of blood spilling up to a horse's bridle in a great battle is about loving your neighbor?

Read your bible. READ ALL of it.And think about what being A wrathful vengeful jealous God means when you are subjected to his will?
God discribes himself as such in the bible.
If you insist on quotes... Im gonna say look it up yourself. Because I do not allow that book in my house.I have been hurt by it too much.

[dogday]

106. Yes there are stories in the Bible

yes God was wrathful, but all that changed with the Birth of Christ. Like I said you can take from it all you want. You choose the blood and death and destruction of it, I choose to see the good in the teachings of Jesus Christ.

[Zenlitened]

119. Which one is the real Christian?

:shrug:

[undergroundpanther]

120. I see blood

Jesus is coming back in revalations to do what?

SLAUGHTER. All the wicked..as he defines them

And his definition are of people like ME.

[beam me up scottie]

117. "Does that mean I have every right to question your agnostic beliefs?"

Yes.

You do have the right to do just that.

And just so you know, THAT IS THE AMERICAN WAY.

If you want to ban free speech against religion go join the other side.
They're working on that right now.

[dogday]

132. Absolutely, noone wants to ban speech

I never said that, I said you should be as tolerant of me as I am of you...... And THAT IS THE AMERICAN WAY

[OctOct1]

11. These are the ones I hate

These are the Christains I hate.
Call me a bigot and a pig. So be it!
I am a Lutheran and go to church every Sunday, but I still dislike these type of Christains. Watch the trailer
http://www.beholder.com/movie_teaser_trailer.htm

[Lex]

12. If you dislike all people who dislike Christians, then you are bigot.

Slamming all people who dislike Christians that way!

[Tsiyu]

54. Ah, the old Southern Baptist argument!

If you complain about anything I do, that is unbiblical. You are judging me.

I speak up against certain Christians on a regular basis. The last preacher who came to my door got an earful. But I sure as hell don't lump him in the same group as ALL Christians.

Same concept, different application....

[Lex]

78. No actually it was your very own argument.

You paint with a broad brush against all people who dislike Christianity in your opening post.

But the very thing you are complaining about (generalizations against Christians) is the very thing you are doing (generalizations against those who dislike Christianity/religion).

[GeekMonkey]

13. I don't dislike christians, just christianity and all religion

i dislike all philosophies that are based on false dogma because they cause problems for everyone

on edit: not just christianity, all religion

[dutchdemocrat]

55. Me too

Me too

[demigoddess]

16. Some of us just dislike the idea

that christians show up on our front door to 'enlighten' us about our status before god. They would not like us if we showed up on their front doors and implied that they had chosen the wrong religion. And christianity is the only one who sends out missionaries to change beliefs rather than help.

[Stockholm]

19. Politics and religion don´t mix period

[UrbScotty]

23. Ah, nothing like a little honesty to ruffle feathers.

Right on.

[Tsiyu]

45. I like honesty

I like getting things out in the open. I feel sorry for those who are too afraid to speak their minds, too afraid someone might not "like" them if they say the wrong thing.

Fuck that. I'm not a Christian, but I have just read one too many Christian-bashing threads here. I would post this very same post if they were bashing Muslims, Buddhists, Athiests or any religion. It's bigotry, and it doesn't make you sound cool or sensible. It makes you sound ignorant. (not you, but those who bash Christians):hi:

[UrbScotty]

90. And it makes them sound Republican. (nt)

[Tux]

25. LOL

Poor Christians being persecuted. :eyes: Christians everywhere are allowed to hate others just because a book said so, allowed to worship as they please, have their own TV stations, radio stations, colleges, homeschooling movement, publishers, stores, and other things. How can Christians survive such dark times?

Get over yourself for once. All Christians follow Jesus. I must be a bigot. Try living in a red state where people look at you in shock if you tell them you're not a fundie like my liberal Christian dad. Worse yet, tell them you're a Deist like me and hear of Jesus non-stop. I see more Christian fish than anything. Even businesses are putting them on signs, cards, and business cars/trucks. Once you're stuck with that kind of culture, Christians do look bad since they hate everything not nailed down like gays, liberals, etc. Fundies should your enemy, not non-Christians who have to deal with this crap daily. Heck, some employers here only allow Christians to attend the local college by controlling the schedule, hiring, etc. Fun ain't it? Try living among these fools before you bitch about non-Christians killing babies, turning people gay, etc.

[undergroundpanther]

39. I suffered alot of abuse by Christians

For my own good.

Coming out was awful.


I was abused by a fundie pedophile


I was chased by teens in Jesus T shirts with knives because I was Pagan during the 80's.


I have been "hospitalized" during pagan holidays by staff at residential programs who were Christian bigots.

I have been dragged to the principal and lectured about Jesus for wearing a pentagram in school.I had a half dozen teachers try to convert me in school.


I have been dragged to church against my will.

My family is torn apart because of religion.

I have been called all sorts of epithets,
I have been threatened.
harassed,teased..scapegoated.

Of course I hate any religion that brags in it's so called sacred texts about how god wants me dead and to suffer forever being a heathen and transgendered and Bisexual..

The bible is a book of shit in my eyes toxic brutal and dangerous.

And I have very real,very direct reasons for my feelings on it.


I hate religion.And bullies. I really hate religious bullies.

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GeekMonkey]

92. bad comparison

they didnt do those things in the name of manhood

the previous poster had those things done to her in the name of christianity

nice try

[Tsiyu]

109. What they did was not for Jesus, please

Both the abusive Christians and the men did those things because they are control freaks and assholes.

It still does not follow that ALL Christians are control freaks and assholes.

YOU try again!

[undergroundpanther]

122. Then explain to me

Why bigots and assholes can rationalize thier abuses with the bible?
And the church stands by? Could it be because of what is written in the bible?

[undergroundpanther]

105. Do you have a religion

Justifying and excusing it for them?
Yes.
Do Christians have an organized social structure to make sure others are indioctrinated into bigotry and superiority additudes based on an TEXT when they are kids?

Yes

Do Christians have an organization that collects tithes to promote the religion of abuse of women because the male god says so?

Yes.

If you do not like abuse Please take those passages excusing it OUT of the bible and kick the abusers and bullies OUT of churches.

[ComerPerro]

26. I have seen very few threads slamming "all Christians"

maybe you are just too sensitive to it.

[Zenlitened]

42. Dude, yer harshin' their buzz. Christians in America are being...

... per-see-cuted, dontcha know?

:eyes:

[BillZBubb]

27. What brought this on?

It sounds like the right wing Christian "victim" mentality. How many DUers hate ALL Christians? Can you give a few examples?

I have no problem bashing right wing, so-called Christians. They are hypocrites and dissemblers. I have no problem bashing Christians who try to proselytize. I have no problem bashing Christians who deny scientific evidence and progress because of their interpretation of the Bible. It has nothing to do with being cool, and everything to do with being honest.

Of course, I would also bash Muslims, Buddhists, Rastafarians, Jews, etc. for the same reasons.

[Zenlitened]

59. That's the million-dollar question, isn't it? What brought this on?

Has there been an outbreak of threads proclaiming hatred of all christians? Or should we just accept the OP's premise on, um, faith?

:shrug:

[arwalden]

63. Hmmm....

:spray: :rofl:

[Tsiyu]

103. I am not a Christian and I'm also not amused

There was a thread this morning painting ALL CHristians as Racist.

Guess you didn't notice that one?


Honestly, haven't enough of you seen that there are Christians who think what gay people do is their own business, and that their god loves all people regardless of sexual orientation? I have.

Haven't you seen Christians here decrying the war, torture, the death penalty? I have.

Haven't you seen Christians here who are Pro-Choice, Pro-Heath care for all, pro- any and every progressive cause?

It's a no-brainer. But I suppose alienating ALL people of one sort or another is a popular sport these days on BOTH sides of the fence....

It doen't make you cool, arwalden, even if it increases your popularity.

[undergroundpanther]

28. No religion

Is a license to BULLY. Period.
Bad hearted people are bad hearted.When a religious texts make excuses for bad hearted bullies this is called enabling. The bible enables bullies and it shouts them down. It is a confused book that has confused humanity and led to atrocities for 2,000 years it's time to reedit the holy book and toss out the bully element in it, and close the door to keep the bully out of the church. Until; the church does this it is hypocrisy and no different from any other hierarchal authoritarian organization in the world..

[Just Me]

31. buddyhollysghost speaks for Just Me.

I agree with everything in your post. :hi:

[gordianot]

32. Be an equal opportuninty bigot "dislike everyone".

Line stolen from a Dirty Harry movie.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

34. If I may say the following to all christians and non christians

I really don't care what your religious or non religious practices are. If they are making YOUR life better then by all means, do practice.

I've always felt religion was a private thing. Something to empower one's own self with.

The teachings in the bible may or may not be insightful to you, but when you hit me over the head with your bible, I view that as assault with a deadly weapon.

Again, religion is a private thing, I no more want to hear about it than I want to hear how loose or solid your stools were this morning. I wouldn't want you to legislate based on how loose or solid your stools were and I wouldn't want you to legislate based on your religion.

Imagine for a moment, if you would, that tomorrow you woke up and the majority was solidly Jehovah's Witnesses. To wit, all blood transfusions including in emergencies such as car accidents were now outlawed....that's how it feels to me to have women's health dominated by religious arguments.

That is all.

[Corgigal]

47. Thank you

I was thinking the same thing, this is a private topic. Who we want to believe and how we want to believe or disbelieve is no one affair. To each their own and whatever works for you.

[BurtWorm]

94. Maybe there should be a "Stool Forum"

where people could discuss such things. :think:

[Not_Giving_Up]

40. I don't dislike all Christians

As an atheist in Texas, I bite my tongue quite a bit. I don't go around pushing my beliefs off on other people. Believe what you want, and I will believe what I want. The problem is that the Mega-Church Fundies will simply not do that. They are taught that it is their job to convert the rest of the world. I know, I was raised by fundies. They just can't wait to tell you all about what they believe, and when you express a difference of opinion, they get bent out of shape.

A little over a year ago, I was working with a guy who was obviously quite religious. Nobody bothered him about it, we respected his right to believe what he wanted to believe. One day, I'm in the break area eating my lunch, watching the noon news, and he was there. He starts asking me if I believe in God. I told him that I did not, he wanted to know why. I gave the short answer to the why, and he kept going. I finally had to leave the room after inhaling my lunch to get away.

Also, if the preachers are going to stand in the pulpit and even insinuate who the congregation should vote for, they should lose tax exempt status. Sorry, but a church here in Houston bought Compaq Center (formerly known as The Summit) - where the Rockets played and the circus and Ice Capades were held. They spent a ton of money converting the place over to meet their needs, and services are broadcast every Sunday. Why are they tax exempt? They don't NEED a break!

Also, if the preacher is up there telling the congregation that the leadership in this country is right where it needs to be, then the armed forces should be allowed to set up tables of recruiters in the foyer. All of those yellow ribbon sporting, "I love my country" proclaiming people could easily put their money where their mouths are. Yeah, that could happen.

[undergroundpanther]

48. Bullies

Will NOT live and let live,

Bullies will bully by any means they can get away with,until you punch them out. The mega church bully cabals want war a culture war,they are itching for a fight a crusade.

They are BULLIES. And bullies do not stop bullying until they are FORCED to stop it by overwhelming force.Do not PITY a bully when they cry persecution.Ever because to them it's all a game for power so they can get away with more abuse. Bullies are SICK and not safe to be around.They can fake empathy and fake compassion to get what they want.
But their hearts are toxic..

Bullies lack the ability to feel shame,remorse,empathy and self control,they lack all the things inside non-bully people that make it possible for a diverse population of all sorts of different people to co exist in relative peace.

[Lowell]

44. It is not Christians I dislike

it is organized religion that gets my goat. I think everyone is entitled to believe whatever they feel like. Be it Jesus, Buddha or some cloud fairy. What I don't buy is those people trying to sell their religion to me.

When a person's religious persuasion gets in the way of rational, scientific thinking I automatically dismiss that person's conclusions. A prime example is objections to stem cell research based on religious beliefs. Those convictions belong in church, not in government.

I know many Christians who are good, loving, charitable people who do not try to sell their beliefs, but practice them. I respect these people and their religious convictions. Even if I don't believe it myself. It is the interference of religion on social order and scientific research that pisses me off.

[jonnyblitz]

46. feeling a bit persectuted today are we?

yeah, it must truly suck being the majority religion , running and controlling everything. I feel bad for you. :( :eyes: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity:

[maddiejoan]

49. I hate the sin.

Not the sinner.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Coastie for Truth]

53. I don't "dislike" Christians

I happen to really like Rev Jim Wallis and Father Charles Owens Rice and Rev Cecil Williams -- and I felt that our Salvationst Chappie in the service was a cool dude -- and Cardinal O'Connor was a fine person and a truly outstanding Chappie.

I saw Cardinal O'Connor (when he was still a "Chappie") call in favors and pull strings to help a young sailor get home for his mother's funeral.

What I do dislike is what the UU's call "exclusionist" (i.e. - our pathway is the only pathway - and your pathway is 100% wrong) especially when "exclusionism" embraces RW politics and conflates RW politics with an "exclusionist" interpretation of Holy Scripture.

[GeekMonkey]

56. If only christians were the majority and controlled the govt

O wait, they DO!

Now quit whining that just because we don't accept your fantasy book as fact that we are 'bashing' you.

[AllyCat]

57. BHG, I hope I have not implied all Christians in any of my posts

but my frustration is with those who have taken the teachings of Jesus, flushed them down the toilet, and made up their own vindictive little god. But they still call themselves Christians (if I knew how to make a registered trademark sign, I would add it here).

Those who are true Christians, are not the ones out trying to make a name for themselves at every rolling of the tape from the corporate media. They are the ones out there actually living Christian ideals: serving others before self, showing love and compassion for all, particularly those who are unfortunate or persecuted, and fighting for justice.

Sounds like you are one of those as are most, if not all, the people I've read here on this board.

I've not felt that others on this board have been critical of ALL Christians, just the RW freaks who have co-opted a compassionate religion. They are not unlike what has happened throughout history in the Christian faith, starting INMO, right after the death of St. Peter, the only Pope who actually knew what Christ meant to teach.

I'll be careful of my language when posting about Christians, but I really think almost everyone on DU is referring to the RWers, not Christians as a whole.

[arwalden]

58. Oh....

[mopaul]

62. uh-oh

[RetroLounge]

64. As the Daily Show mentioned last night...

In NYC, at the same time, there was Billy Graham and the Gay Pride Parade.

Guess which group was trying to convert other people to their lifestyles and moral codes?

'nuff said.

Now get off the cross, we need the wood.

RL

[FreedomAngel82]

70. You make good points

I'm a Christian myself and know others who are good people. I do understand how people feel about the Christian religion because of the really big loud mouths and extremists and those who follow these extremists. My grandfather is the same as your dad. He's an elder in his church and was in the navy and does what he can for other people. He and my grandmother don't like Bush either and my grandfather thinks he's a moron and they both voted for Kerry.

[Bridget Burke]

71. So why are you addressing this to ALL DU'ers?

There's a vocal minority who haven't gotten over their Fundamentalist raising. They regret their early foolishness--can't say as I blame them.

I'm currently in the agnostic/atheist range but was raised Catholic. Having studied myth, legend & comparative religion, I understand the value of the concepts involved--they have a lot to do with human psychology and the creation of art. Of course, I've read my history & know how religion can be used as a reason to do wrong.

If you have problems with specific posts, why not just answer them? Is it really necessary to preach at everyone here?

[MrScorpio]

83. I don't have a problem with Christians

I just have a problem with people that use the name of Christ to justify their un-Christian actions and words.

Big diff.

[undergroundpanther]

86. the bible is a threat

OK


I am a bigot because I have READ the bible and found that god wants me dead,and this god demands of his followers to destroy me..because it is his good pleasure.

I AM bigoted against ANY rape,genocide, torture,marrying off of children,incest,pedophiles, and misogyny woman must submit.. All that onward Christian soldiers and all that jazz is excused in your bible.. I am bigoted against people excusing threats and fighting words like "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" as if it is not a threat to MURDER (I am pagan)
and I am angry that the idea in the BIBLE that says that" men that lie with men like women should be stoned to death" because it offends god ids somehow OK,or men that wear womens clothes should be stoned to death(I am trans gender).That is a THREAT to me,a threat that if I do not change who I am I will be tortured or killed by this god and I am fair gamer to his followers who would persecute me to please this god.That's some sick scary shit.

He bible threatens ME personally so of course I am bigoted against threats to my person..Believers in that book have hurt me before.And I have no evidence they are getting any depth of empathy twords people like me when once a month a transgendered person or people are murdered in this country because of bigoted beliefs perpetuated by"holy books" and churches with bullies in the pulpits..
So of course I am bigoted against a book and belief system actively promoting the abuse and torture and death of ME and people like me.

The bible has destroyed my family,Hurt me and God calls it righteous he brings a sword and a sword dividing brother from brother father from son,that's not very love thy neighbor thing..The bible is interpreted by the interpreter.If the interpreter is sick their religious slant will be because the bible ALLOWS that sickness because of what is written in it..which is phrases like "do not suffer a witch to live" the Dark ages shows what happens when true believer bullies adhere to the bible.

[dogday]

95. I am sorry to hear that

I don't know why people take parts of the bible and use like a weapon. I follow the teachings of Christ. And in his teachings, he says love one another, it does not say anything about judging or you can't love someone who is Gay. Jesus spread the word and the word was good because is was about love. You can take what you want from the Bible, I take the good and nurture it. I don't believe in Man-Made laws.

[undergroundpanther]

108. I don't trust man made religion

Because it's lawless

[dogday]

112. Now we agree on something

see wonderful, I don't trust them either. Men are corruptable....

[undergroundpanther]

116. And men wrote the bible too

[Coastie for Truth]

130. Jefferson's Bible

Thomas Jefferson "re-wrote" the Bible - stripping out all of the science fiction and "blind faith" -- very interesting read.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0807077143/qid=1119980553/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/002-2961057-2920035?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1420924923/qid=1119980553/sr=8-2/ref=pd_csp_2/002-2961057-2920035?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

plus a bunch of other versions.

It's on the reading list of the UUA web site and the local UU Church.

[ibegurpard]

91. Oh, spare me

Anyone with a lick of sense knows exactly what someone is talking about when they are disparaging "Christians." They're not talking about Methodists, Presbyterians, Catholics, etc. They're talking about the fundamentalist loudmouth busybodies.

[beam me up scottie]

93. Doesn't jesus hate liars ? Name one Duer who hates all christians.

How many bales of straw did it take to make that up ?

[VOX]

99. I hear and appreciate your passion, buddyhollysghost.

My only problem with certain Christians today is having their brand of "Christianity" rammed down my throat.

I was baptized and raised a Methodist, and I still believe in Jesus' teachings, but I do have difficulty with the exclusivity of some branches of Christianity -- the kind that say, "Our way is the only way, and if you don't see things our way, you're going to hell, etc. etc."

Unfortunately, too many offshoots of Christianity today have perverted and vulgarized something beautiful into a weapon of hate, divisiveness and oneupmanship.

But you're right in that people should be judged one by one, and not by the group.

[undergroundpanther]

114. But the book

That needs to be judged. People do what they do..
But the bible has been an excuser of so much artrocity.Christians need to ask WHY these bullies are clinging to that book and they need to examine thier own motives for thier selective editing of the bible be it omitting the books like Joshua or omitting stuff like the beatitudes.
The bible has positivity and horror BOTH in it and it should NEVER be taken literally..

[MissB]

101. Next time you see something that you think is bigoted

hit the alert button.

It really isn't necessary to have yet another "Christians are persecuted" thread on DU.

Some people are assholes. Use the alert button to let the mods know so they can take care of them.

[northzax]

121. yeah, kinda by definition

what's your point? trying to manufacture a victim complex? Evangelical religions, as a whole, tend not to work very well unless there's persecution involved, real or imagined, is that what's going on here? is your religious identity wrapped up in imagined persecution by the 20% of Americans who aren't church goers?

What do you gain by calling someone a bigot? it may be true, but how often does calling people names help them see the error of their ways? All this does is raise hackles and make people hostile and solidify their positions. If you have found someone who uses language and terminology that you find innapropriate, hit that little alert button, and let the good people who run the show deal with them. no one is perfect, y'know?

[jokerman93]

125. Speaking strictly for myself

It's not about being cool or hating Christians, but to be honest, all my encounters with so-called born-again Christians since I went to college in '75, have over time given me an aversion to the unctuous, dumbed-down, authoritarian, neo-Christian ideology of personal redemption (read: "My own personal Jesus"?), the unsolicited, pompous and presumptuous witnessing by the (largely) unread and unqualified, and the cloying culture of obscurantism. That's all stuff the Christians are going to have to back-peddle if they ever want to regain credibility in my mind. I was baptized a Catholic, but have seen little human good come out that church either.

It would be helpful if real folks who live inside the Christian reality tunnel would make an effort to demonstrate to the rest of us that they aren't just the same fresh-scrubbed zombie troglodytes that have usurped the Christian ethos here in America over the last thirty years or so. I feel they have much to be accountable for in this country, both politically and morally

So...I don't hate Christians. In fact, I don't think it's "cool" to hate or despise anyone - but the weight of history lies heavily against my sympathy for any followers of the Christian faith these days.

It doesn't fit much with Christians' self image as the millenial world religion but, real followers of the Gospel message are rare creatures, IMHO.

[bvar22]

126. If I dislike all Bigots, am I a Bigot?

I DO remember something about a LOG in my eye, and not judging others.

LOVE the Bigot; hate the Bogotry?

I strongly DISLIKE ALL Republicans (I hate republicans ,baby...)
http://www.bushflash.com/ihr.html

I REALLY dislike ALL simplistic GLOBAL Statements. Maybe somewhere there is someone who DISLIKES ALL Christians, but is NOT a Bigot.

I'm pretty sure its still OK to hate ALL mimes!

[Cats Against Frist]

131. It's one thing to dislike someone. It's another to think they're nuts.

Everyone has the right to THINK whatever they want. I sure hope so. And I think people who talk to "majik sky fairie," or any other form of delusion are slightly. That said, I may like them or not like them, depending on their other qualities.

Is there some kind of problem?

[Moderator]

134. locking....

This is flamebait and a continuation of an earlier thread.


DU Moderator