Hillary to take "key position in DLC" reports Kos

[patcox2]

Aww, ain't that cute? She's our liberal standardbearer, sure, she and Bill are real liberals all right.

[WilliamPitt]

1. Kos got it from Pitt

who posted it here a couple of hours ago:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3966193&mesg_id=3966193

:)

[patcox2]

13. Sorry, man, would have attributed if I saw it.

nt

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

She just wants to insure that she gets the corporate contributions

over the rest of the pack in '08. I'm not surprised one bit.

[LSparkle]

2. Yep, let's limp right back to the center where we can LOSE

The only reason Clinton won was because he was (is) a FORCE OF NATURE -- a natural born politician. OUR PARTY NEEDS TO BE BASED ON VALUES, NOT JUST SHOWMEN/WOMEN!!!!

And BTW, Hillary ain't no Bill in the charisma dept. If she's the nominee, we're doomed.

[shraby]

4. Are we headed for a three main-party system

DLC, DNC and RNC?

[mirandapriestly]

5. I think so, too.

That's why the GOP/Fox is promoting her so much

[Bluebear]

6. Absolutely. n/t

[chaumont58]

3. I am sure I must be underestimating them, but...

I look upon the DLC as an organization whose time has come and gone. What do Al From and Bruce Reed do all day? Rallying the troops? I know that they like to claim the last elected Democratic president, but Clinton won because he is the most gifted politician of the last 50 years, not because he was/in DLC.

[Bluebear]

7. I agree with your assessment

Bill Clinton may be the most gifted politician in history, and I say it as a compliment.

[Dr Fate]

28. Bill Clinton could sell Frigidares to Eskimos.

You are right- the DLC had little to do with his mass appeal.

[GreenPartyVoter]

8. Does this mean she is running for Prez? (not that I woulda voted for her

anyway.)

[FreedomAngel82]

9. *snicker*

Anybody who believes Bill and Hillary are liberals don't know liberals at all. Hmm, I wonder what they're up to. :shrug: Why are they painting Hillary as a liberal??? I don't get it.

[Bluebear]

10. 'Hillary' or 'liberal' sets up the drooling right wing

who will do anything to stop either. You start putting the two words together and hot damn!

[geek tragedy]

11. Maybe she can clean house there. Let's not all start forming the circular

firing squad yet.

[patcox2]

12. Why would she clean house? She and Bill were founders.

And nothing they've ever done tells me they ever changed. NAFTA? Sure, lets sell out labor and the owrking man in america to benefit wall street and the corporations. I see she is speaking out against abortion, too.

She's as bad as Lieberman. If she wanted to run to the center, she'd have to run to the left.

It is not a circular firing squad to cut the cancer that is clintonism out of this party. It would be a return to democratic party values.

[geek tragedy]

14. So, your solution is to have all moderates vote Republican?

Wow, that's a GENIUS move.

We liberals have to work with moderates in order to win. This country is not, and never has been, a liberal country.

Moderates are not a cancer--they are a necessary part of a winning coalition.


If you'd rather be pure and hold 15 Senate seats and 100 seats in the House, well I guess you could say I'm just a little more results-oriented.

[dissent1977]

15. What is a moderate?

Is a moderate a person that sides with the corporations over the working people?

Is a moderate a person who believes that gays are second class citizens?

Is a moderate a person that believes it is ok to kill over 100,000 civilians by bombing a country that posed no threat to the United States?

These don't seem like moderate positions to me, and I resent the DLC trying to tell us they are.

[geek tragedy]

20. Moderates think that:

1) We should favor workers over corporations, but that one can't be pro-employee and anti-employer.

2) Moderates generally have no problem with giving gays the same basic rights as heteros, but are somewhat uncomfortable with the state redefining an historical, cultural, and religious institution like "marriage."

3) Moderates want someone who is serious about keeping the United States safe. They believed their president, who LIED to them. This realization is beginning to sink in.

Now, I'm not a moderate, but we have to be able to work with moderates and form coalitions with them to win.

[Zhade]

22. Not the DLC.

Based on some definitions of moderates here - like "workers over corporations" - the DLC is decidely NOT moderate.

Check my sig line for more.

[patcox2]

18. Moderates don't object to core liberal principles.

Look at the resistance to Bush's attack on social security for proof of that.

Moderates are turned off by the fringe-special interest politics that are all tangled up with the democratic party. Eliminating the pledge of allegiance, school prayer, abortion, gay marriage, gun control, these are the issues that are killing us.

I divide the democratic issues into two groups. There are the economic liberalism or economic justice issues (social security, welfare, labor, medical care, labor laws, tort laws), and the social liberalism issues (gay rights, strict separation of church and state, affirmative action, abortion, gun control).

Its kinda a mirror of the republicans with their traditional economic conservatives, who I could live with, and the current crowd of whackjob social conservatives.

Sorry to brak it to you, but the democratic party is losing votes inthe middle not for its economic liberalism, but rather for social liberalism.

Returning to the core values of the democratic party, economic liberalism, to me is the way to appeal to the swing voters and moderates. Be libertarian on social issues, but be true blue roosevelt liberal on economic issues, protect working people, restrict abuses by big business, enact universal health care, worker protections, keeping jobs in the US. You are not abandoning the smaller groups who need a voice, gays, minorities; if you do a good job on economic justice, you help all).

The Hillary Clinton way is suicidal, she has completely abandoned the economic liberal traditions of the party, and instead clings to all the "special interest" issues that cause most moderates and swing voters to vote against democrats. Its the worst of all possible paths.

People often express consternation about why does Joe Sixpack from the red states "vote against his interests." Well, what does the Clinton agenda say to him? The Clinton agenda sells him down the river to the big corporations, exported his job overseas. Monetary policy favors investors over wage earners. Meanwhile, from his perspective, the democrats make more noise about being for gays and immigrants, they are gonna take his guns, and prohibit his kids from praying in school, than they make about anything in his life. Frankly, we don't represent his interests anymore, not since the Clinton "3rd path" sellout of the working class.

The only thing we all used to have in common was the economic interests. We all want jobs, we all want security in old age, we all want decent working conditions and a chance to get ahead for our children, education. But we (the people of america) do not all want to have prayer abolished from schools and have guns outlawed and have preferential hiring for minorities and sorry to acknowledge reality, many would consider it a tragedy to discover their child is homosexual.

If you want a coalition, you have to go on the issues that everyone has in common.

Hillary is exactly, 100 percent wrong. She is the perfect candidate to win the democratic primary, and the worst candidate possible in the general election.

I bet that Barack Obama is the man who could go the route I am suggesting. His race would give him more leeway to distance himself from special interest politics.

[geek tragedy]

19. The Dems big problem is that they engage in debates on Republican terms.

Why are we talking about gay marriage instead of civil unions and civil rights?

Why are we talking about gay rights, guns, and abortion instead of getting the government out of people's lives?

Why do we elect an aristocratic, social-climbing centimillionaire to be our nominee--was John Kerry really going to appeal to blue collar workers?

We need to talk in language that the people we seek to help--the working poor--understand. Instead of "stop voting against your economic interest, you stupid homophobes!"

[patcox2]

23. No, we champion fringe issues that divert from core democratic principles.

It doesn't matter what terms we talk about it on, when the biggest and most prominent policy issue in an election is gay marriage, we are going to lose. The fact that the discussion is taking place and diverting attention from democratic principles of economic justice and fairness for everyone is why we lose.

We are perceived by the ignorant as the party of whacky fringe groups and minorities, and unfortunately, its because too often we are.

I don't think its a coincidence that several different court cases focused so much attention on gay marriage and the pledge of allegiance just before the 2004 elections. I would not be surprised to find that the litigation was encouraged for financially supported by republican front groups.

[geek tragedy]

24. I half agree. We debate specific issues instead of the core values

that lead us to take our positions on those issues.

We favor abortion rights and gay rights because we believe in personal freedom.

We should be talking about our belief in personal freedom.

[patcox2]

25. Yup; we could grab a lot of libertarians with the right approach.

But that approach would also have to abandon affirmative action-like laws.

[geek tragedy]

29. Affirmative action doesn't curb personal freedom. As you said, there's

a lot of RINO's that are NOT happy with the current GOP Congress--they see it as corrupt, unprincipled, and full of religious extremists bent on imposing their own sick version of the nanny state.

The Dems need to make 2006 about teaching the out of control Republicans a lesson.

[SaveElmer]

16. Very Wise...

It is pretty amazing how people here would rather stick with what we have than accept Hillary Clinton. SHe has a 95 rating fromn the ADA, but I guess people here won't accept less than 100.

IMO she is our best hope in 2008!

[geek tragedy]

21. Zealots scorn heretics more than they do the enemy. eom

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

17. Kinda like having the Mafia clean up organized crime.

[Dr Fate]

26. This explains why she refuses to support Kerry's DSM investigation.

n/t

[ulysses]

27. "ulysses is shocked" AP reports.

:eyes: