The soldiers in the audience at Ft. Bragg tonight

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

deserve our respect and gratitude.

They did what was asked of them, as soldiers, and no more. They applauded with the absolute least amount of enthusiasm possible.

They, and their comrades, are paying the ultimate price for the follies of the emperor with no clothes.

Those soldiers provided a nice moment of understated civil disobedience.

I'm proud to be a veteran tonight. MKJ

:patriot:

[liberaliraqvet26]

1. What did u see ?

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

2. Golfclap for the win!

[SunDrop23]

3. Ditto (eom)

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

9. LOL, "golf clap" brilliant! n/t

MKJ

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

4. I saw the soldiers politely, on cue, applaud

No enthusiasm, faces frozen. They saw that they were being used as props.

Soldiers are limited in what they can do at a military event, certainly one that involves a speech by the commander in chief.

The fact that they applauded indicated to me that they had the option through the entire speech.

Why didn't they applaud any other time, except when prompted?

MKJ

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Booster]

66. I read that a WH staff member started and lead the applause,

otherwise, I doubt there would have been any at all.

[jeffrey_X]

97. Terry Moran reported this on ABC directly after the speech.

nm

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

5. I noticed that the troops in the audience seemed less than.....

...enthusiastic.

There were a couple of the folks on the stage that appeared to have been chosen for their extreme loyalty.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

6. They were the ones who actually had the Shrub Jr. rookie trading card!

[Lars39]

7. The *only* person I saw smiling in the audience

was a civilian female.

[in_cog_ni_to]

8. Mike Malloy just said Terry Moran is reporting the applause was FAKE!

Yep. Fake applause. One WH staffer started clapping to get everyone else to clap...and that was only ONE time. They were NOT happy that he was using them for propaganda purposes. Can't say that I blame them. The Tide Is Turning! Not only are the American citizen FINALLY waking up, the military isn't happy with the idiots war.

[AnnInLa]

20. Yes, Nora McDonald agreed

Is that NBC? I forgot which channel I was watching, duh. The anchor asked her why there were no interruptions for applause, and Nora said she had wondered the same thing, so she asked the military people in charge. They told her only that they behaved with politeness and that's all they would say. She said the only break from applause came when the White House staffers started applauding, and the audience picked it up from them. She did add that everyone applauded when the pres was leaving though. lol

I think it was a lukewarm audience, and they were practicing a mild form of disobedience and contempt for their commander. Maybe they didn't like being used?

[Pirate Smile]

45. It was probably Nora O'Donnell on NBC. Terry Moran also

reported it on ABC. I guess even Faux acknowledged it.

[Blue_In_AK]

46. We guessed it was prompted applause...

Perhaps a big sign off to the side..."applaud now."

[FreedomAngel82]

47. Good!

Tonight was a complete failure!

[secretpoet]

53. I was laughing so hard when they said that,

that a White House Staffer had to start the applause.

And I did like how you could tell exactly when he was looking at the plastic-sheet Teleprompter - whenever it was an actual name of something.

[steve2470]

10. I thought they had been ordered to be quiet. They were SOOO quiet.

I'm so glad they had the freedom to resist and not clap.

[trogdor]

59. They were at attention.

You don't bat an eyelash at the position of attention. This was a military formation, and that was that. No talking. No unnecessary movement. Was it done like that because it was the Army, or because the sergeant major in charge of the formation didn't like the dog and pony show bit.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

60. Yes but in many previous "captive military audience" shrub speeches in the

past (campaign 2004) there were repeated applause breaks.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LincolnMcGrath]

11. My Brother is at Bragg.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

12. Have you talked to him about gwb' s appearance? How do they

feel about his speech tonight? MKJ

[LincolnMcGrath]

17. Haven't spoken yet.

I am quite certain he would have to attend though.

[seabeyond]

26. i think that the majority do support bush

i think it is nice to believe that the soldiers are waking up. but i dont know that is true. i would love for you to share how your borther feels, what he thinks and sees with fellow soldiers. or sometime, start a new post on this.

i personally like to hear the soldier stories, regardless of what they are. they should have a strong voice, yet they arent allowed

[Media_Lies_Daily]

36. I don't think that's true anymore. I'm hearing a lot of grumbles from....

...retirees here in Alabama, and that almost NEVER happens.

The active duty folks that are having to lay it on the line are growing VERY restless.

[seabeyond]

40. cool to hear that in alabama

everyone that were supporters of bush stay away from me. so i dont know where the repugs stand in texas. i do know all my bumperstickers, about 8, no one has challenged, at all.

anyway, thinking about graham sayinghis people are coming to him and speaking out against the war, that is s carolina.

so with your alabama, his s carolina. no, it isnt looking good for bush

thanks media. always appreciate your posts

[insane_cratic_gal]

52. You didn't watch

Chris Matthews in TN.. or live on the floor in AL CNN..

It was a display, thought I do have to admit the military families seem hesitant to support the pResident. They were supporting their husbands and wives.

[Richard Steele]

56. All lame jokes aside, that's actually a pretty significant indicator.

If retirees in ALABAMA are unhappy, it's a safe bet that most people EVERYWHWRE are unhappy!

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LynnTheDem]

68. No they don't.

Of the 85% of the US military that are enlisted troops, only 1/3 are even Republicans.

No, the majority don't support bush; but the "liberal media" won't tell you that.

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[in_cog_ni_to]

15. Did he go to hear the idiot? Can you get some feedback from him?

He's not going to Iraq, is he? I hope not. :(

[LincolnMcGrath]

19. He has been there 5 times and is set to go back in the fall.

[AceAlmighty82]

33. I thank him for what he has done...

regardless of who has sent him. Whenever you get the word from your brother..if you get the word from him on what went down..post it..i believe all of us would like to know

[gordianot]

42. Welcome to DU

Good to see someone from JC. Not as many of us in that river town since baby Blunt rolled into town.


:hi:

[AceAlmighty82]

44. Oh yeah...

Baby Blunt isn't doing so hot either...spent $117,000 on two new SUV's for his family and redecorating his personal office.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

37. Good grief....he must be growing VERY tired of this crap.

[DefenseLawyer]

13. The story I saw

said they had "orders" not to be enthusiastic. No "hoohas" allowed or whatever. While I respect the troops, I suspect that most of these guys are so brainwashed with the program that they would have been cheering their heads off for the pretender in chief if they had been allowed.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

18. Well, I think I detect the latest RW talking point..they were TOLD not to

applaud.

MKJ

on edit: I guess the WH was counting on some spontaneous outbursts.
Talk about misjudging your audience. MKj

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. Correct, the troops are not brainwashed, in fact they don't

like the CiC

[DefenseLawyer]

34. I don't mean to jump on the troops

and I can't speak for all or even most of them. Perhaps you can. But I have two nephews, one is a marine officer and the other is a Navy Seal. I don't know if "brainwashed" is the right word, but they are definitely "with the program" 100%.

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. my husband is a retirned Navy Chief, (Sub Service)

I can tell you that you may be mistaking commitment to mission (for teh troops under us) for adulation or being with the program. It is soemthing very hard to explain unless you have served. I have worn a uniform, and I can tell you that what may look to you as being with the program 100% may be commitment to teh mission they have been ordered to carry out, and they have no way of quetioning those orders UNLESS is is so clearly ilegal that they knwo they have a duty to question the order.

As somebody who actually questioned an ilegal order I can also tell yuo that will end a career and quite possibly land you in jail or a firing squad in time of war... I am lucky neither of these two happened to me.

But we sometimes talk abou it, and the troops want to finish what was started out of loyalty to the ones who fell... not the CiC... nor are they allowed to quetion what is going on ...

I may add, operators are the ones who carry the hardest of missiins and have the least time to question orders, it is a psycological mechanism. I, as a medic, actually had an obligation to raise qusetions when orders violated Geneva... so it is more complex than what externally you are seeing. When this is over, your two relatives, may need help in understanding taht what they did was honorable as service members, unless they engaged in clear war crimes... because this will affect the services the same way that Nam affected them. We need to distinguish between the troops (even low level officers, the higher in teh food chain the more responsibity they bear) and the civilians who have ordered this mess.

[FreedomAngel82]

49. I'm glad you were okay

in the end. I remember watching something on PBS I believe about the soliders and Iraq. In the beginning people joined up to get BinLaden and everything with 9/11. Then Iraq happened and threw everybody for a loop. On this doc I was watching after a good while and soliders got to Iraq they realized the truth of what was happening and mostly were going to save their friends and help each other get out a live.

[tabasco]

93. Many in the military feel betrayed by Bush's invasion of Iraq.

Many like Pat Tillman joined up to help catch the people that attacked us. They, like me, believed we had just cause to go into Afghanistan. But Bush never fully supported the mission in Afghanistan and virtually abandoned it in his fixation on Iraq. Now we are failing both missions.

We should have gone into Afghanistan and finished the job and got the hell out. Now the troops there are facing a resurgent Taliban, who have killed at least thirteen of our troops today.

I am a infantry officer, 12 years active and currently reserves. I say Bush has betrayed the military and should be prosecuted for war crimes. He is responsible for an unjustified war of aggression.

BUSH IS RESPONSIBLE !

[KharmaTrain]

67. Marvelous Insight

I have met several returned Iraqi vets and I'm seeing the same thing in them that I saw in Vets that returned from Nam. It's that hesitancy to really speak what they feel. Even those who oppose the invasion or hate Bunnypants still measure their words as they are concerned it will be scrutinized closely.

The important point you bring up is the "mission" and the esprit-de-corps many of these people have vs. the overall circus they're playing in. Many now describe where they were as the "mission" or their little part as though they're totally disconnected with the bigger picture. It's the only way one can sleep at night.

I'm really not reading much into the reactions of a crowd...since these events are so staged, if you're looking at the body language and the distractions, there's not much to read here either as this is also very staged...sheesh, they always need to put props behind the manchild.

The big thing is this message flopped with a large thud. It didn't come close to reaching the majority of us who now are against this invasion and is creating further angst among the enablers...tonight, we've entered 1967.

[Qanisqineq]

57. She is exactly right!

I live on a military post and I sure don't hear anyone that likes Bush. My husband is in Korea right now. While he doesn't know that many people being new there and a little uneasy to bring up Bush/Iraq (he goes to the promotion board next week), he doesn't know many that like ol' George either.

[in_cog_ni_to]

29. What bullshit! They really do think we're stupid. IMCPO

THAT is a VERY dangerous thing to do. Never underestimate your enemy...they do.

[FreedomAngel82]

48. I wonder why they did that though

I wonder why tonight's speech was so serious. Why not some hoo-hahing and all that? This is definitley confusing.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

25. BTW, DefenseLawyer, I'm not saying that

you're spouting RW talking points.

As someone who was "brainwashed" by serving in the military, I can say that the troops I served with (during Raygun's regime} did not blindly follow the leader, and, in fact, had a very healthy dose of skepticism regarding anyone who would send us to battle.

And that was during a Cold War peacetime. I can't imagine how they feel now. MKJ

[chknltl]

80. Served under Pres. nixon...

I and others in my unit seriously considered going permanently awol if we were to be sent to fight against Egypt back '72,(73?). Some of us loved our jobs but despised our leader even more than we loved our jobs. It was shortly thereafter that tricky dick became distracted with that impeachment thingy.

[Walt Starr]

14. Those brave men and women faced a horror I would never want to face

they actually sat through a Bush speech in person.

:scared:

[fla nocount]

24. Many pay thousands for that opportunity. Imagine.

[Walt Starr]

28. Yeah, but they can't be convicted of a crime for not showing proper

respect.

:scared:

[anarchy1999]

77. Worse than that Walt, they HAD TO!

No options.

Best post on the this thread, not to mention.

As always, Walt Starr, a man of few words.

[tallahasseedem]

16. I agree...

someone over at Kos posted that they saw a soldier have to nudge another one to give a lame ass clap. Cant beat that. They know this is bullshit.

[understandinglife]

21. Agree.

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us - How ever long it takes, the day must come when tens of millions of caring individuals peacefully but persistently defy the dictator, deny the corporatists their cash flow, and halt the evil being done in Iraq and in all the other places the Bu$h neoconster regime is destroying civilization and the environment in the name of "America."

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. According to Terry Moran (ABC) that applause you haerd

was under orders...

Boys and girls, forced to mandatory fun time, yuo did well

[dchill]

99. And on CNN, Paula Zahn (yeah, I know)

said before the speech started that we could expect "several interruptions" for applause. (You know, 'cause these troops are basically Bush's "Home Boys.")

[woodsprite]

27. I couldn't watch tonight. Checked DU the minute I got home....

That stupid fairy didn't grant my wish. I was hoping for a public nervious breakdown. :(

[ignatius 2]

30. I agree. I felt very sad looking at them wondering if they will be the

next to die for the lies and incompetence of this little monkey man aka "war president" and if they realized as are many Americans now, that he and his neocon fuckwad allies are all traitors to what America stands for.

This speech in front of the soldiers at Fort Bragg was per usual a photo-op for the war president. But I think it backfired bigtime as it really became a poignant moment looking at all those somber young faces and realizing that they are the faces of the 1700+ who have died in this sham of a war started by this sham of a man.

[Burried News]

31. Guess his next speech will have to be at a Blackwater Security

or Halliburton shareholders meeting. What an indignity for troops to be used this way. Another night away from family to be a backdrop for a puppet show.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

32. I'm wondering, is this the moment that will damage gwb and allow

the MSM to finally take off the gloves?

Speaking in front of the soldiers, and scripting their applause?

Dare I hope this the "emperor has no clothes" moment? MKJ

[mandomom]

35. Did you know that when Hitler entered Vienna

after securing a bloodless coup, his advance SS team ordered all dissidents (mostly Jews) to be evicted from their apartments and all Austrian flags removed so that adoring, cheering, Nazi flag waving fans could fill those windows and front steps, all the better for Hitler to feel Austrian excitement was grand and behind all he said and did? Just saying . . . the dissidents were relegated to the backs of the buildings so he wouldn't have to bother his beautfiul mind with any risk of protest or even insufficient cheering.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

39. From the moment of Herr Busch's first inauguration they have pushed....

...American protesters off to the side in specially marked protest zones. During his inauguration motorcade, about protesters screamed at his limo as some threw eggs.

Everywhere he goes, security is unbelievably massive and unprecedented...and protesters are kept as far away as possible.

I'm beginning to think that is going to change fairly soon.

[FreedomAngel82]

50. Don't forget when he goes out of the country

They close down entire towns for that! You're not even allowed to look at him!

[democratic veteran]

38. The soldiers in the audience at Ft. Bragg tonight

Good post patriot. I'm glad to be a veteran also. I don't think the military will be blindly Republican after this. To paraphrase Rumsfeld: These guys have another '2-12' years of this.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

43. Thanks democratic veteran

I have been disgusted time and again by gwb's use of soldiers as a propaganda backdrop.

These soldiers said volumes by saying nothing at all.

MKJ

[mom cat]

51. Welcome to DU democratic veteran. I agree: the blinders are off!

:hi:

[secretpoet]

54. Did it seem bizarre to anyone else

that they didn't play "Hail To The Chief" as he entered/walked to the podium, but did once he finished speaking?

[ms liberty]

55. I just caught it on CSPAN...

I too noticed the lack of spontaneous clapping/cheering, and the lack of enthusiasm when the prompted clapping took place. And the looks on those soldiers faces when the cameras panned the crowd...it did not look like a group of people who were thrilled to be there, except a couple of the civilian women at the front of the audience. In fact, that's the first thing I noticed. Respectful and obedient yes, worshipful and adoring - no. When he was shaking hands there was one female soldier, a very petite woman, who didn't even smile when he shook her hand. He moved on very quickly, and she looked away very quickly. I might be reading more into it than was there. Did anyone else see that?
I was also struck by the secret service detail. The man was on one of the most important military bases in the country, surrounded by allegedly loyal soldiers, probably the tightest security known to mankind. Why were there secret service people standing in front on each side of the stage? Why were there (about) 5 of them around him as he shook hands with "his" loyal troops? I don't remember seeing them in so prominent a role in a military setting before. Does anyone else think that was a little strange?
He was wearing his deer-in-the-headlights look tonight, and it wasn't very flattering. Of course, his public speaking skills are not great anyway, so it's no surprise his performance was stilted and ill at ease. He looked and acted uncomfortable.

All in all, it wasn't as big a failure as I was hoping for; but it was no success for him, and I don't think he enjoyed it, so I'm satisfied. For today, anyway!

[Qanisqineq]

61. I only watched the first 5 mins. before I had to stop

I wanted to pound nails into my eardrums. But anyway... during the short time that I watched, I noticed the troops the camera was on were slumping, leaning to the side, and looking around. You'd expect they would be made to sit straight and tall and all that for their "great" Commander in Chief.

My husband was at work during the speech (he's in Korea) and if there is something important on the news, they will stop what they are doing and watch. They didn't watch. What bad, bad soldiers! :spank:

[Skip Intro]

58. Finger in the eye to bush. Total rejection of the "commander in chief."

that silence was deafening, forced applause - once durin speech (started by bush's people) and once as bush left.

This to me is the biggest hit to bushco tonight. And that's saying a lot with his plea to "join up and answer that highest of all callings" bs.

No enthusiasm from the troops..

I think bush is done.

[Renew Deal]

65. The soldiers are cool with me.

It's not their fault they have to deal with this shit.

:patriot:

[WriterRoss]

69. MURDER is funny, isn't it Georgie?

How does he get away with LAUGHING and SMIRKING and looking like he wants to giggle when he is talking about a self-inflicted war??

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggghhhhh.

I feel helpless
but a little less so
Feels like there's a new breeze blowin... There's an aroma of disgust in the air.

[Renew Deal]

70. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[WriterRoss]

72. Grateful Read

Thanks for that. {}

I'll stay here as long as I'm needed.. and then a day longer. ;>

[chknltl]

81. Welcome to DU WriterRoss...

Come to think about it... I feel a little bit less helpless too, bush IS smelling a bit gamey lately... a small hurray for the good guys may be in order.

[Pluvious]

71. This old quote shows he knows he's a media creation

...and perhaps he fears that facade will crumble leaving him naked and exposed for what he knows he really is...

"You know, I could run for governor but I'm basically a media creation.
I've never done anything. I've worked for my dad. I worked in the oil business.
But that's not the kind of profile you have to have to get elected to public office."
-George W. Bush, 1989

[deutsey]

73. Anti-war protests in September

www.unitedforpeace.org
www.internationalanswer.org

[blossomstar]

74. Yes! They do deserve our respect!

I live in NC on the coast close to several military bases. When Michael Moore's film "Farenheit 911" was on in the theaters here I went to see it. I did not expect to see a lot of military people there but it was filled to capacity with them. After the film was over, I was standing outside and was stricken with tears at all the beautiful young faces around me... they were all mostly being deployed to Iraq as I could hear them discussing their deployments together in small groups! I asked several how they felt about that after having watched this film and was told "we know it's all dirty politics, but it's my job, I have to do it and we'll do it well." I will never forget that night! I hugged every single one I passed by and told them that I was proud of them and loved them. So, these soldiers in Fort Bragg were not impressed by the lies and rhetoric they were told "again" tonight. They are weary... they have suffered more than any of us. I can not even begin to understand the personal sacrifices these men and women have given in order to fight for our country. Do not even think for a moment that they are unaware as to what's been done to them and I am very sure they did not like being used as "PROPS" for the jerk that sent them to hell...

[anarchy1999]

78. What an awesome 1st post and welcome to DU! I wish we could have

been there with you. We just got back from visiting Pinehurst, NC and we had no idea we were so close. Too little time but we will use it as a base for future actions.

Once again, welcome to DU and thank you ever so much for sharing your story.

[nadinbrzezinski]

79. From a military family, t

thank you... though my hubby retired, he was over there for this cluster fuck and he did his job... that was all he could do, duty, honor, commitment (Navy)

By the way, welcome to DU, and we noticed the same when we went to see F 911... the place was swiming wiht military personnel

[Blue Gardener]

82. Welcome to DU blossomstar!

Good post.:hi:

[saigon68]

83. Yet they seem to join in droves

Yet they seem to join in droves

And be used by the same MADMEN and Bush Criminals, day after day, month after month and year after year. They never think about the children, they will have to kill, before they enlist.

This is how fascist regimes get the sheep citizenry to "Support the troops"

ie: killing the sub-humans (those yellow star, pink triangle and towel head wearers) is hard work but in the recruit’s mind— I have to do it because I "joined up".

[ncrainbowgrrl]

92. Welcome to DU, blossomstar!

:hi: from Chapel Hill!

[evolved Anarchopunk]

94. Hey blossomstar ! i understand your feelings..

I go to Appalachian State (when schools in) and have a house in the country, so i'm on the other side of NC, but man the whole state is so Beautiful !! when farenheit 911 came out we had local showings of it, and surprisingly both the College Democrats AND Republicans clubs funded free private viewings of the movie for anyone enrolled in the ROTC program there. I kno, crazy right? I remember a evening show letting out near my dorm and watched maybe 30 such students walking out, a few were chatting and even fewer were in their BDU's, but the majority of them said nothing and just stared at the ground... it was such a mix of feelings, but i wish i did what you had the balls to do and give those guys a hug :grouphug:

But hey, welcome to DU, interesting first post !! :hi:

[blossomstar]

101. Thank you for the welcome!

Thank you for the welcome from Morehead City! It took lots of guts just to go see F911 in a college environment. You live in a beautiful place! Thanks again!

[namvet73]

84. From a former veteran...

In the military, you are living in accordance with military law based on the Miltary Code of Conduct.

Last Sunday on 60 minutes, a reporter asked a commanding officer if they felt a purpose for being there. The reply was that they were there because they felt they had a responsibility to finish/continue a job that those before them, especially dead and wounded, started. I thought it was a clever answer, because it's an honest and reasonable answer without saying "to fight terror" (or other political statement) or anything other than just the fact that they owed it to their fellow troops. (To a military person, a fellow troop is more. It is their brother or sister. That brotherhood extends beyond completion of service.)

Deep down, your responsibility is to survive and help your friends survive so that you can return to your loved ones and get on with life.

If I had been interviewed during the Vietnam war, I would surely have selected my words carefully if interviewed by a reporter. Part of survival is not rocking the boat.

When you are serving, the president is your boss. When you are a civilian, you are the president's boss. We used to say (while in uniform) a civilian is the highest rank of all. However, I have met people who were just children of military families and many seem to see the president as their Commander-in-Chief rather than their elected public servant, who is responsible to them as citizens. They were brought up that way and don't see it any other way, even though their parents are long out of service and they live among the rest of the civilian population.

I am not saying either way of thinking is wrong. When you are serving, in theory, you are serving your country as part of its defense against enemies* and your commander-in-chief issues orders. But, these orders must be in the light of responsibility of the people HE is supposedly serving...the citizens of the United States.

You cross a very big line when you enter the military. This is not to say that we aren't all public servants in some way, but it is a different way. You might say it is public service to your peers. Voting and questioning the government becomes your duty to your fellow citizens.

That's my simple, early morning, spontaneous reaction to this discussion and why military people, present and former, react to the president differently in public. The president is aware of this, hence, he chose Fort Bragg. But, apparently (I did not watch it), the audience at Fort Bragg either had their fingers crossed behind their back or their middle finger extended behind their back.

*Unfortunately, in Iraq, we did not get involved in a war with an enemy that attacked us on 9/11.

PS: I wonder what kind of graffiti one would find written in military vehicles, aircraft and ships.

[w8liftinglady]

86. My son...

When I have asked him in the past how he felt about the war and the president,has always stated that his buddies were there for him and he was there for them.No mention of the commander in chief,the validity of the war.I think,like my son,these boys went in with some idealistic vision(and to get money for school).That vision is gone,for the most part,and they are doing their best to keep their heads down and survive.

[Bluerthanblue]

88. my heart

breaks for your son, and ALL those who 'trusted' the government with thier very lives- That trust was abused, mis-used, and perverted.

i have nothing but respect, regret, and yes, some measure of 'guilt' for the soldiers who have been used by this government- the 'guilt' because we, the people, couldn't stop what should have been stopped- no matter how hard we tried- and as a result, so many have been killed- on every side, and trust ESPECIALLY cannot ever be completely re-gained.

And is essential for a truly contented full life.

So many politicians have so much to 'answer for' and hopefully will have long retirement years, and the 'enlightenment' to regret thier evil doings.

[DUBYASCREWEDUS]

85. SMIRKING CHIMP

Did anyone else note how that Smirking Chimp strutted on to the stage at the beginning of the speech? Or, how throughout the entire speech he had a smirk on his face? What a pompous, arrogant ass he is. I think my favorite part of the entire speech was watching the delay between words or word groups as if he was trying to hear what was being fed through his ear piece. Yesterday, in my hometown they buried a soldier killed 2 weeks ago in a roadside bombing - 25 years old; grew up in my neighborhood; probably worked at the local McDonald's while going to the grade school and high school down the street. I watched as this Republican city put out the flags, tied the ribbons, etc. It made me sick. Then I had to watch this arrogant, smirking asshole strut on national television. But the saddest part of the entire evening was the explanation point at the end of his speech - news that came later in the evening - word that a helicopter with 17+ soldiers went down over Afghanistan - possibly enemy fire. Somewhere in America other cities wait for their young dead to come home. Vietnam - here we come.

[Talismom]

96. Your town's experiences make me feel so sad!

I also can't help thinking about how many have actually died in this profiteers dream come true. I hear that the official count of some 1700 doesn't include those who die in Germany or on the way to the hospital there--that there are actually some 6000 dead as a direct result of this nightmare... not to mention the number of wheel chair bound we are going to become aquainted with in the next few years or the birth defects from depleted uranium that we will soon be seeing. I just walk around fuming with rage over this crime! Impeachment is not enough. Sometimes I yearn to see these thugs get the treatment that the Italians gave Mussolini. At the very least I want to bring those poor service men and women home ASAP!

[dchill]

100. Noticed the strut.

Noticed the smirk. Noticed the pompous.

Also noticed the fear, puzzlement, deer-in-the-headlights look on his face as time passed without applause. He SHOULD be scared...

[Bluerthanblue]

87. Did you notice how many looked down, or

had that million mile stare- like "anywhere but here"-

i saw not one soldier with a look of anticipation, awe, or pride to be graced by the 'commander in chiefs' presence-

and it broke my heart (for them) and gave me hope, for all of us-

[wake.up.america]

89. Most of the flag wavers are starting to realize this war is not worth the

Kids join the military because of a lack of jobs and/or because of future educational opportunities and perhaps some because they feel patriotic.

On all three counts they are getting the raw end of the deal.

Bush destroys the economy.

Less money for school and other benefits.

How can you feel patriotic fighting a war that makes no sense?

Bush had better come up with some intelligent answers - real soon.

Most of the flag wavers are starting to realize this war is not worth raising the flag.

[wtmusic]

90. Yeah, and maybe the war was wrong in the first place

What it's "worth" is kind of irrelevant, isn't it? We could throw all the money in the world at it, and it still would win it, or make it right.

[earth mom]

91. If the soldiers don't support * who are the freepers gonna support?

No more yellow ribbons on their cars....oh dear!

Judging from some of the deleted posts in this thread-the freepers are losing it!

[SeanQ]

95. I noticed that as well

for the few minutes I could stomach watching.

[TheUnspeakable]

98. I missed the speech, but...

was listening to the radio, flipping around the dials (AAR commercial break) and I caught the very end of the speech (local ABC
affiliate)- there was THUNDERING applause and then the "reporter" (I forget who) said something like "an OVERWHELMINGLY ENTHUSIASTIC response to their commander in chief" I was extremely disheartened and thought to myself "these poor kids just don't get it" To hear this report, you would think the whole place was going crazy! Then I read this thread and I can't believe it- Thanks Guys!!!!!!!!!