A message to Democratic politicians

[mmonk]

that want to continue with the myths surrounding Iraq and a connection to American security and 911; I will not support you no matter what office you run for. I can't support or stay silent concerning those that lie concerning such grave issues (no matter what the public has been lead to believe). My conscience is not for sale, not even for political victory.

[mopaul]

1. listen up democratic leaders, distance yourself from this war quick

or seek a new type of employment besides government work

[Cocoa]

2. specify those dem politicians please

and please note that Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi both responded to Bush's speech by disputing Bush's linking of Iraq and Sept. 11.

[mmonk]

7. They out themselves without any input from me

[Cocoa]

10. that means nothing

specify the dems you are referring to please.

[mopaul]

14. LIEberman, biden, kerry, clinton, any who support this obscene war

[seabeyond]

18. wow all the way from promoting 9/11=saddam to anyone

that voted on the whatever bush put out to senate before war

so the whole op has shifted

because the arguement could not be won that dems were supporting 9/11=saddam

[Tesla]

3. I want a VOICE!!!!

I see the fires burning in the distance.......

We need a person with

Even if you "physically", don't!!!!

[LightningFlash]

4. We need the heeding call of a Boxer.....

.....Barbara Boxer !!!!!!! :patriot:

[KharmaTrain]

5. Meeks On C-SPAN Was An Embarassment

I generally appreciate seeing CBC members on WJ, but Meek's performance today was "meek".

One major mess-up...someone called in asking about Depleted Uranium...it dropped on him like a dumb-bomb...he knew nothing about them.

A lot of Democrats still can't figure how you can support the troops, but not the invasion. They can't figure how you detach from the top command and reach out the the lower levels...and their families. When Democrats sound like Repugnicans...especially next to Repugnicans...trying to "out support" our troops, it always looks bad...the Repugnicans have this act down, cold.

OTOH, it's easy to say if a Democrat doesn't do this and that, he/she won't get my support. Since I assume we're talking Congress and Senate here, what are your alternatives? Vote for the Repugnican? Waste (and I DO mean waste) a vote on a third party? Stay home?

[Walt Starr]

24. third party

It's that simple. Third parties remain third parties because of the myth of the wasted vote.

[KharmaTrain]

27. In A Smaller Race It's More Than Wasted

From one whose worked on Congressional campaigns...and until recently in losing efforts...the two biggest pains we had were an internal primary battle and a third party. Not only did they draw away votes, but also valuable resources and created splits in our own ranks that all but gave the elections to the Repugnicans.

At one time I was very in favor of third parties and how both parties are corrupt and let's start things over. Then I got older and more familiar with how the game is played. I also saw how Repugnicans had regimented their party...no matter how bad the candidate was...they'd vote for a garbage can lid if told to.

While I share a lot of your frustration, I see a bigger problem on the other side of that wall right now and that the problems within the Democratic party as one we deal with when we have a stronger say in the destiny of the country than we do right now. No, I don't say let's kiss anyone who says their a "Democrat" and doesn't share any of the my core social views, but I'm not gonna split hairs when we need to win seats desperately to not only get back the House (this is sooooo critical) but to stem the Repugnicans from getting veto proof majorities...that's what their goal is in 2006.

[Walt Starr]

29. Electing a Democrat who acts like a Republican is no better than

electing the Republican.

It's that simple. so the reverse is also true. Allowing the Republican to be elected is no worse than electing the Democrat who acts like a Republican.

[KharmaTrain]

30. Is Politics Simple? How About Local

So would electing a wingnut Conservative bible-thumping Repugnican...or enabling that election to occur through spliting the opposition...worth losing focus on a bigger, harder and longer-term objective.

In my nearly 50 years of being a Democrat, I have come across many who I've disagreed with...and was far more vocal about DINOs and others when Democrats had control of Congress, but that's done with the luxuary of coming up with a better, not worse alternative. These days, we face a lot of the lesser of two evils, and sadly, by fighting the lesser evil, the greater one prevails.

Now where do we draw the line of what "a Democrat who acts like a Republican" is...or even what a DINO is for that matter. Is it any merely being anti-war or demanding an immediate withdrawl? Is this someone who will vote for a pro-corporate bill (one that may benefit their district) but lines up on social and anti-war issues. Be assured, this isn't much of a question that needs to be questioned in the Repugnican party...at least right now.

I wish it were that simple...my candidates would have never lost an election.

[Walt Starr]

31. Yes, it's that simple

and the definition of what crosses the line to the point of no appreciable difference between the two condidates becomes an individual decision.

What you may not consider crossing the line, I might. This may be why we lose, but that's the sad reality of the piss poor state our politics are in.

[KharmaTrain]

32. So We Continue To Burn The Village?

Walt, I'm from Chicago...a virtual one-party state. Many "Democrats" here are as right wing as they come, but still come out and vote for the national and statewide Democrats when the votes are needed. Do we cast off these type of people to create a "purer" system? Do so at even greater peril.

The sad reality is we're facing an opposition party that puts winning elections, power and greed about principles and values. Before we can redirect the focus on principals, we have to win elections and reduce the Repugnicans power.

Honestly...would you spite "borderline Democrats" that aren't in your district and have no direct affect on your life, but their vote would mean one more to end this war? Or inversely, can we afford to allow the GOOP to succede in getting 60 Senate or another 10 or 15 House seats?

Walt, I appreciate your posts and food for thought being thrown around here.

Cheers.

[Walt Starr]

33. Again, it's an individual decision

and it depnds entirely upon the candidate and the individual voting.

In my own case, were I to live in Melissa Bean's district, no way in hell would she get my vote next year.

Will I vote for Durbin? You bet your sweet ass I will!

See where I'm coming from?

[seabeyond]

6. biden, kerry, pelosi, reid, clark all contradicted the 9/11 saddam

lie. tell me one democrat that is perpetuating this myth. i have not heard one democrat say the war in iraq is keeping us safe from the people that took down the towers

[LightningFlash]

9. Biden said the speech was great!

So did DLC member Dodd....Chris Dodd..

[seabeyond]

11. biden also spent a lot of time pointing out how bush lacked in his speech

what he needed to say that he didnt. how he needed to have some answers. how there needed to be more troops and without that things couldnt get better. how he had to bring in the other countries and seal up the borders. biden didnt get on tv and say bush is good, speech is good. biden said a whole lot more

i dont watch the news anymore. i count on du to be factual. but the representation of biden on du has been false. i listened to the interview. and what is being reiterated here on du is total misrepresentation of what biden said

[LightningFlash]

16. So prove to us what he said, by posting it.

[seabeyond]

19. you prove it. you are making the accusations

surely it is your responsibility to back up what you are saying.

[ProfessorGAC]

17. Dodd Was, However, Very Supportive Of Li'l Georgie

I saw him with Costas last night. It was a treacly and sickening response. He is completely guilty of the complicity to which the OP refers.
The Professor

[seabeyond]

23. he is the one i didnt listen to, so i would have to get the transcripts

to see. and just isnt worth it to me. but....... if it is the same point the finger accusation that has been made of biden last nite, that is far off. i dont know. as i say, i didnt listen to dodds

[ProfessorGAC]

25. No. I Do Think Biden Has Been Overly Criticized

He was, IMO, too polite. But, he did offer a reasonable criticism of the speech. The same cannot be said of Dodd. He essentially agreed with the whole stay the course theme, and agreed that patience is necessary. He even agreed that a timetable is a bad idea. Biden did criticize that notion. Dodd concurred with it.
The Professor

[mmonk]

12. Those that say

it was vital to the security of the US. Those that pretend we are there for establishing freedom for Iraqis instead of a friendly oil provider. Those that pretend Iraq was some sort of threat to us. Those who support the overall strategy of imperial overreach. Those who will consider more invasions as an overall strategic policy.

[seabeyond]

15. you have totally opened your position up to

subjectiveness, where about all will be losers. well that isnt how you initiated your post. and you have it so all emcompassing, you have made it about impossible to argue.

so whatever to your position

[mmonk]

26. My position is simple

If you support an America that is different from the America before 911, I'm not for you. If you equivalate and engage in phony discussions concerning foreign policy and terrorism, I'm not for you. If you contiue to support the erosion of constitutional liberties, I'm not for you. Seems crystal to me.

[mmonk]

20. And finally,

those that say we must continue to build a "security state" by continually giving away constitutional liberties and funding a growing police state.

[greekspeak]

8. What all Americans today should be saying to all politicians.

"My conscience is not for sale." Great, simple quote. Put it on a bumper sticker and a t-shirt and give it away for free! And thank you for making it! :applause:

[Cocoa]

13. DNC's response leads off by addressing that lie

http://www.democrats.org/a/2005/06/bush_offers_def.php#more

IRAQ IS NOT WHERE OSAMA IS

"This war reached our shores on September 11, 2001."


IRAQ WAS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR 9/11

BUSH
"No, we've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with September the 11th."

RICE
"...We have never claimed that Saddam Hussein had either, that Saddam Hussein had either direction or control of 9/11.

RUMSFELD
"I've not seen any indication that would lead me to believe that I could say that .

[Hugin]

21. I saw Pelosi's response...

In fact, it was the only part of the whole sham I
paid any attention to.

What was said was good... It was very short, but, I
was glad to see it was at least *done*.

I could tell the corporate network was in a hurry
to get back to their sedative programming.

[shadowknows69]

22. No "stay the course, now we have to complete the mission" Dems

The mission is the point. there was none, there isn't one and its too late to come up with a succesful one. We want our troops home. Let the Iraqis rule Iraq.

[Patty Diana]

28. sign this petition telling shrub it's time to get bin laden

http://www.democrats.org/page/petition/osama