Our Democratic Leadership Better Pick Up this TALKING POINT

[berni_mccoy]

That to USE another country that had NOTHING TO DO with the war on terror is being used as "Terrorist Flypaper".

We are sacrificing 100's of thousands of Iraqi civilians to "lure the terrorists into Iraq."

This is absolutely dispicable and ought to be called out as a WAR CRIME.

The Administration's past excuses have all failed, so they think we are STUPID enough to buy this excuse, WHICH BTW is Internationally ILLEGAL!!!

[MindPilot]

1. Ohh that's good: "terrorist flypaper"

Using a sovereign nation to so we can "fight them instead of here" is absolutely despicable and that is exactly what they have done.

Kicked and nominated.

[Snotcicles]

35. Did Iraq put it's hand when Bush asked "who wants to host a war on terra"

n/t

[gumby]

2. How can Bush bring 'freedom and democracy'

to a country he is deliberately turning into a terrorist firestorm?

[mzmolly]

7. Exactly.

Pathetic.

[Imagevision]

34. To me, other countries aren't interested in Bush's brand of Democracy.

[rwork]

3. Well put Berni

Why can't our Democratic leaders be this expressive?It is so simple what he has done. The spin. The Iraqi's don't want to fight the war on terrorism on their soil.

[ElectroPrincess]

4. Yes, I wonder what the average law-abiding Iraqi ...

who's only hoping for utilities and basic security thinks of *'s master plan of luring in the terrorists to THEIR country?

A country that had nothing to do with 9-11 or formal state sponsored terrorism like Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan and Iran.

I have to admit if * wanted us to invade Saudi Arabia since 15 of the 19 hijackers came from there, I'd of been hard pressed to say "No." The deadliest terrorists are coming from SAUDI ARABIA.

What did the poor, overly sanctioned, Iraqi people have done against the USA that we have to use their precious country as "flypaper" for international terrorism?

The B.S. is getting so high, we need wings to rise above it. :puke:

[donkeyotay]

5. Really good point, but American's don't like to talk about war crimes

"Terrorist flypaper," indeed. Kicked. Nominated. May the DNC hire you. Great graph. (Who benefits?) Kudos.
:toast:

[rustydog]

6. Yea, why didn't we use Saudi Arabia? North Korea?

[DeepModem Mom]

8. They must seize this opportunity, period! Press is fairer, war unpopular,

Bush's numbers down. They need to pour it on, and not be mealy-mouthed about this war. I think the country is off this war, and increasingly off W. Dem leaders and spokespeople must help this process along. The door is wide open.

[mzmolly]

9. We are holding Iraqis as hostage decoys.

But it's "liberation" dontcha know. :eyes:

[The Stranger]

10. It is called the "Flypaper Strategy."

The Spider and the Fly

[sandnsea]

30. "Bring 'em on"

Which is why it is stupid for us to use THEIR words when what we're talking about is the EXACT OPPOSITE. They're trying to say Iraq will draw the terrorists in. What's really happening is terrorists are getting the best training against OUR TROOPS and GOING OUT INTO THE WORLD. We're doing the opposite of the Flypaper Strategy. It's more like the Queen Bee Strategy, where new Queen Bees are being created and going off to start new hives.

[Ready2Snap]

11. Counter to Talking point

We should start referring to Iraq as A TERRORIST INCUBATOR

This is an example of what George Lakoff is trying to get Dems
to understand, interalize, and start using against the right-wing propaganda machine:
Flip their distortions to show the issue from our viewpoint.

[unblock]

12. i like 'incubator' or 'breeding ground' or even 'terrorism univ.' better.

'flypaper' makes a good point regarding the cynical use of iraq in the war on terror. however, (a) it grants that the war on iraq DOES have a role in the war on terror and (b) it ignores the fact that our violent presence in that region is a recruitment bonanza for terrorist leaders.

[berni_mccoy]

14. Good point... I wonder if the term 'Incubator'

would be construed as 'sacrificial womb' of Iraq. Many different visions come to mind... some unspeakable.

[Ready2Snap]

40. My take

on incubator is something that is used to cause an organism to foster/fester.
In med terinology an incubator is also used to groww germ and bacteria cultures.
In the human ense, it still means giving life support to a newborn.
Anyone who would take it to have pro-life/choice implications
is probably to far gone to hear me anyway. Can't worty about them.

[mzmolly]

13. And refer to 911 as "Bush's failure"

:hi:

Welcome!

[berni_mccoy]

16. Oh, and let's not forget

Bush quoted Osama Bin Laden to make his point... let's keep driving the point in with that as the hammer.

[Just Me]

15. Excellent point.

This administration has certainly alluded that creating an environment that lures the "terrorists" into Iraq was part of their plan. What a horrifying form of exploitation! That's all this administration does is exploit people. :grr:

[sandnsea]

17. I think that's a horrible horrible horrible talking point

Because that is EXACTLY what the freepers have been saying for two years. THAT is what "fight 'em over there" means.

The Talking Point we've been using is fine. There were no terrorists in Iraq until Bush started this war, the war is creating terrorists, terrorists are now training against our actual soldiers and leaving Iraq to train others in how to fight our soldiers. It's a training ground for terrorists. We've got to change course immediately and get back to disrupting global terrorist cells and stabilizing Iraq so we don't create terrorists.

[berni_mccoy]

20. The Freepers have changed their tune

To say "we have to STAY THE COURSE to bring DEMOCRACY to Iraq. We have to finish what we started for the GOOD OF THE IRAQI PEOPLE..."

REALLY... We've got them cornered with their OWN TALKING POINTS. They can't have it both ways...

Either you are in it for the good of the IRAQIs or you are NOT.

They can't keep changing their tune on this. And we MUST CALL THEM ON IT or we are being complacent.

[sandnsea]

27. Huh?

They change their justification for this war more often than Liz changes husbands. It doesn't bother them. We have to stop using ANY of their talking points, particularly anything that gives credence to drawing terrorists into Iraq in order to "fight 'em over there". The point has to be that we're helping terrorists become better and the only way to take the fuel out is to stabilize Iraq faster and start to leave.

[bettyellen]

23. but they presumed they were there..... and not in saudi arabia, etc....

we are talking about how it's become a terrorist training ground because of our presence there.

[sandnsea]

29. Words matter

Specific words matter. Certainly it's becoming a terrorist training ground. But calling it terrorist flypaper is so wrong because that is the exact justification they've given for the war, Iraq would draw all the terrorists in so we could kill them all. I hope to god they don't pick up "terrorist flypaper", because it'll take another year to fight that simplistic meme. Terrorist Training Ground that is sending terrorists into the world is what is really happening and the reason we've got to speed up Iraqi training and start pulling out.

[bettyellen]

31. there is no one exact justification for this war

there have been many, many contradictory ones however.
the fact that terrorism is spreading because of the war is what i hear getting out. the fact that the borders are not secure is stating to get out now.
i'm not sure why youre so concerned about this meme getting out though, with the MSM what it is, i think it's pretty darned implausible. The idea that we could attract all the possible terrorist to one area and swat them all down is laughable, and if the repugs use it as a rationale, i think it'll easily be dismissed as a valid strategy.
but since you are splitting hairs, do you think all those terrorists are iraqui born and bred? and if not, why should we petend they are?

[sandnsea]

39. See #10

"Flypaper Strategy", written in 2003. That's been the only consistent reason any American has backed the Iraq War, they already believe it and they DO think we'll swat them down over there. That's why it's important to point out that these terrorists ARE NOT staying in Iraq to fight our troops, they're leaving to start cells around the globe. We could stay in Iraq and fight terrorists for 20 years, it isn't going to do anything about the terrorists in other places. If we adopt the "flypaper" meme, it gives people the impression that we really can swat them down over there and that's the worst possible thing to say. It's a beehive, with new Queen Bees being created and spreading around the world to make new hives.

What's equally intriguing is some days there really are terrorists in Iraq, the next they're all freedom fighters.

[staticstopper]

18. lets keep track...see who will come straight out

and call them on it, in no uncertain term.

Where is our Galloway? Hilliary? Kerry? Biden? :shrug:

We need someone with name recognition to yell it loud.

Kennedy is like Hillary...right'ers dismiss them out of hand.

[blm]

19. 3000 innocent Americans would NOT WANT a 100,000 innocents KILLED in their

name.

What part of INNOCENT does BushInc not get?

[berni_mccoy]

21. A quote from Senator Hayes

When questioned if he feels safer in America since 9/11:

"Absolutely. Well, we haven't had an attack since 9/11, and that's what we're here to prevent. And I absolutely do feel safer. If not now, when? If not here, where? And better in Iraq than in America."

BETTER IN IRAQ THAN IN AMERICA.

Dispicable.

[Norquist Nemesis]

24. Get yer head out of the sand, Senator

Your logic is faulty.

BTW, your and my tax dollars a funding the training for these terrorists along with the 'reconstruction'.

[Tommymac]

22. Nominated and Kicked!

Great insight. Great post. Folks in The Hague might want to read this one.

:kick:

[sunnystarr]

25. Imagine yourself as an Iraqi

who has lost family and friends at the hands of insurgents. Hearing Bush say this wouldn't you hate Americans and America? Would you start resisting the occupation?

[sunnystarr]

26. OMG that was my 666 post .... that feels creepy (nt)

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

28. Terrorist Flypaper.................Very good. Needs to be used often.

Recommended.:toast:

[mdmc]

32. terrorist flypaper

interesting

[Peace Patriot]

33. Yup, that is one great talking point!

I never thought of that. And isn't it interesting how we get sucked into the "Alice in Wonderland" logic of BushWorld--even us smart ones and us unplugged ones who are aware of, and resistant to (or we think we are) the brainwashing? It has never occurred to me before that this wasn't juch a war strategy--however hypocritical it is--but a war CRIME. What did Iraqis do to deserve becoming "terrorist flypaper"? And what right does Bush have to decide that for them?

Over 100,000 of them slaughtered so Bush could "get Saddam." Now more of them being blown up and shot and caught in a permanent war zone as Bush's "flypaper"!

Ye gods. It is diabolical. And I feel...ashamed that I didn't perceive it before. It's much more than a talking point. It is an indictment.

[berni_mccoy]

37. Thanks, I've posted it on Democrats.org

Just so it will get seen

Check it out:

http://www.democrats.org/a/2005/06/exploiting_sept.php#comments

And I've also sent it to Conyers and Michael Moore in the hopes this point gets spread before the weekend.

Thanks for all the kudos people.

[Shredr]

36. Great point

I like "terrorist flypaper." That should stick (sorry, I had to).

[Skip Intro]

38. Soldiers were sent with bullseye's on their backs

If the current rationale - fighting them over there - is the one they go with, as they're doing, then bush sent our soldiers into Iraq to lure the terrorists in.

Yes, Iraqi citizens too, but as a talking point, it should be pointed out that the troops, OUR troops, were evidently, if you believe bush, the commander in chief, sent to Iraq to "draw in" the "terrorists."

BUllseyes on their backs.