CBS: Commando team that called for Heli in Afghganistan is missing

[leftchick]

This is shaping up to be one HUGE disaster in Afghanistan. The Helicopter with 17 on board that went down yesterday was responding to a commando teams request for help. They can't account for any of that team. They are out of contact! They have not said how many more soldiers that is in addition to the ones killed on the Heli.

:(

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. taliban claimed they got a seven man patrol

so mebbee they were onto something

[leftchick]

6. yep

I just read that on the cbs web site. of course the pentagon is still denying it. :eyes:

[Rick Myers]

10. Oh shit!

This is not good.

[wishlist]

2. Taliban has claimed 35 US deaths including the commando ground team

There is another thread from an Arab news source somewhere here on DU that talks about Taliban claim of 35 Americans killed.

[ewagner]

3. One of the sad truths about war

Sometimes the situation becomes critial and the calvary does NOT arrive in the nick of time.

I'm sad for these soldiers.

the Soldiers in the helicopter

and the soldiers requesting the help.

My heart goes out to their families.

[Robeysays]

82. that is a sad truth of life, I'm with you on the condolences.

[cynatnite]

4. Does anyone know if this involved any of the Army Rangers?

:scared:

[leftchick]

7. Navy Seals on the helicopter

I don't know who the Commando Unit they were responding to was. God This Sucks.

:cry:

[malmapus]

73. 3rd Group has been active in Afgan too =/

Thought and prayers with their families who-ever they were with.

[sunnystarr]

80. Our local news said some were from Fort Campbell KY (nt)

[Coexist]

5. oh, shit.

If we still had our soldiers there in the numbers that are supposed to be there - Iraq would just be another third-rate dictatorship and Afghanistan would be under control. OBL would be photo-op'd in his underwear. I can't believe this. I am so pissed.

[bvar22]

26. You seem to believe

...that the US could "successfully" occupy Afghanistan.
Go ask the Russians and the British.

[anarch]

74. Afghanistan has never been successfully occupied,

and never will be.

Even Alexander the Great couldn't control it. I think it's a combination of geography and the local culture that makes the country pretty much impossible for foreign powers to subdue.

I've seen some fairly convincing arguments that the Russian disaster in Afghanistan played no small role in the fall of the Soviet Union.

[Carla in Ca]

28. That is so right...Did he even mention Afghanistan last night?

We were right to go there. It would be done now. So what do we end up with? 2 'wars', each with half the troops we need. We should have concentrated on Afghanistan only. I am so sick and tired of this!

[thinkingwoman]

45. you are correct

I scream this at the tv or the computer screen every time I encounter reports such as this out of Afghanistan.

It's so frustrating.

[Coexist]

76. I know - me too

my kids laugh at how angry I get at the teevee!

[Botany]

8. We should have had that country locked down by 10/15/01

But no asshole lets bin Laden go and the taliban to get 85% of the country
under their control and sends our troops to Iraq .....

God i hate him

[earthboundmisfit]

9. Hasn't the WH been pointing to Afghanistan as a big success?

I could swear they've been telling us what a huge fucking success Afghanistan has been & what great strides have been made there ... (never mind about the effects depleted uranium's having on the Afghanis...)

edited 4 turrible spelin'

[FreedomAngel82]

11. Yep through Laura

Remember they sent her there and she said everything was swell? Then a few days after she left there was a report a woman was beat and raped.

[leftchick]

52. yes, the chimp mentions it often

or he used to during the campiagn. How the Taliban are gone and Afghanistan is a success and model of democracy... :puke:

[theHandpuppet]

75. As a matter of fact...

CNN had Gen. McCaffrey on just this morning spouting the same lines of propaganda that you suggested they might, ie, that Afghanistan has been a huge success and that such great strides have been made. He said the Taliban were now depleted down to a few thousand at most and isolated along the Pakistani border, and that the rest of the country was relatively safe and under control of Karzai's govt.

[sunnystarr]

81. The litmus test is if they voted ...

they voted so ergo it's a success.

on edit: Freedom is on the march dontchaknow

[Just Me]

12. Wait, wait, wait. What are you saying? OMG!!!

Are you saying that the team that went to find our soldiers are gone, too?

Fuck!!!! :cry:

[GiovanniC]

13. It Sounds Like

The helicopter that was shot down had been en route to provide assistance to this team of soldiers who now appear to have been killed.

[leftchick]

29. exactly...

and Don Martin?? the pentagon reporter for CBS was very subdued and said they could not reveal all of the deatils at this time. :(

[Botany]

14. The strongest and best military in the world has been rendered .....

..... out of order by an AWOL punk who is just a tool of rich people.
We should have had that country locked fucking down by 10/15/01 .....
bin laden should have been dead by 12/01
his helpers in the Paki army and intel should be dead
the Saudi's who funded it should be dead ......

But NO .... asshole gets us into a no win war that his PNAC buddies wanted
from 1993 ......

Damn him ..... I hope our troops went quickly and were not captured or
tortured by the taliban .....

[cynatnite]

15. And on the news is the evac of the capital

No mention of our fallen troops. :grr:

[Bluebear]

17. "Not ready for duty, Sir"

Rich people's punk used that smarmy quote in 2000 to "win" the first time, and in 5 years has rendered the best military in the world to an undermanned, overstretched outfit.

[understandinglife]

21. Perfect synopsis. You should publish that one as it's own post.

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us - A simple question, my fellow Americans, "Why is bin Laden still alive and Bu$h not in prison?"

[Just Me]

24. And it's all about money, money, money!!!! *cry*

These monsters do NOT give a DAMN about our soldiers, our people or any other human being across this great world!!!! We are ALL sacrificial lambs to them,...if that,...more like wickets to be sold!!!

They NEVER cared about securing the American people!!! :grr: They betrayed and USED the American people to profit themselves, to empower themselves. They do NOT give a shit about us.

:cry: I hate them. They are monsters. I hate them. :cry:

[Carla in Ca]

33. Obviously Halliburton didn't want to go to Afghanistan

n/t

[WCGreen]

66. Ah but they are such great chistians....

What would Jesus do......

[pgh_dem]

78. Monsters is exactly the right word. n/t

[scarletlib]

37. Deja vu all over again--reminds me of USSR in

Afghanistan. They denied the truth of what was happening, hid the casualties from its citizens.

I think we could have won over the Afghans in the beginning if we had gone in with force and taken out the Taliban and the warlords who were just as bad in their own way. The regular people there were tired of the wars, the Taliban and the warlords.

If we had done that, stabilized the country and helped them restore a government we could have left them better off. No we couldn't do just that. bushco had to have another little war in Iraq. Now the warlords and Taliban are coming back stronger than ever because he left a half-assed unfinished job.

[Auntie Bush]

58. But, but, but...The women are going to school and voting!

But of course they get kidnapped or raped on the way.

The price of freedom!

[mike_c]

59. the only major difference IMO...

...is that no one is filling the role played by the U.S. during the Soviet occupation-- keeping the Taliban well supplied and providing them with organization and intelligence. The U.S. is largely responsible for the Taliban today, at least as a coherent opposition force. If they were being supplied like the U.S. supplied them 30 years ago it would be like the Soviet experience all over again. The Taliban is just as resolute now as it was then-- it just doesn't have a sugardaddy on the same scale as the U.S.

[WCGreen]

67. Saudi Arabian Princes......

[bleever]

53. I second UL: Please consider posting that as its own thread.

:thumbsup:

[megatherium]

60. You have that absolutely right!

I remember being so grateful to hear on the news that we "had boots on the ground" -- in November of 2001. Then 4 December we had bin Laden and company in Tora Bora. Then that sickening feeling when the warlords who were doing our fighting for us "negotiated". And then yes, bin Laden and his company escaped.

Now I get the strong impression we actually know where bin Laden is: in Pakistan under the protection of the Pakistani ISI. We can't do anything about it "because of national sovereignty issues".

[TacticalPeek]

68. President AWOL pulled our punch against UBL, then switched to Eyerack.

Posted: 2003-07-30

July 29 — In early 2002, the U.S. campaign against al-Qaida — “Operation Enduring Freedom” — was revving high. U.S. commandos readied themselves for lightning strikes in the dusty plains of Afghanistan or the deserts of Yemen; aerial drones buzzed the skies rigged with cameras and missiles, controlled by technicians on the ground; surveillance planes high overhead listened for electronic whispers of Taliban holdouts.

But, AS “Operation Enduring Freedom” kept al-Qaida on the run, the White House was already planning for war against Iraq. Sources say that in the spring of 2002, key weapons in the war against terror — such as the commandos, the drones and the high-tech surveillance planes — were rotated out of Afghanistan. Now experts tell NBC there was a clear tradeoff as the United States let up on al-Qaida to pursue regime change in Iraq.

A former national security official in the Bush administration tells NBC News Senior Investigative Correspondent Lisa Myers the White House was warned that the buildup against Saddam might provide a respite for Osama bin Laden and his henchmen. “There were decisions made,” says Flynt Leverett, a former director at the National Security Council in the Bush White House, “to take key assets, human assets, technical assets, out of theater in Afghanistan in order to position them for the campaign to unseat Saddam.”

Leverett, a former senior CIA analyst, talks with the professorial precision of an academic. “We see today,” he says, “that al-Qaida has been able to reconstitute leadership cells in the Afghanistan-Pakistan border region and it would seem in Eastern Iran.”

snip

But during deliberations leading up to war, according to Leverett and military experts, there were insiders who worried whether in fact the Iraq war was a distraction. “There were people in the interagency process,” Leverett says, “who warned that if you drew down in Afghanistan too precipitously that it was going to impact negatively our ability to go after al-Qaida on the ground.”

Retired Army Gen. Wayne Downing agrees that there was a tradeoff in resources, although he supports the Iraq war and says the impact on the war on terror was not major. Downing was the Bush administration’s chief terrorism czar for nine months after the 9/11 attacks. “I think clearly there was concern,” he says. “There was concern by the intelligence operatives, by the FBI people in the field and by some of our intelligence agencies who were forward deployed that this Iraq war was going to divert some of their key intelligence-gathering resources.”

snip

NBC News has learned that in one still-classified incident in Yemen, commanders wanted to engage what sources call a “viable mission against an al-Qaida target.” After all, in the past they had used the missiles on the remotely piloted drones to strike at terrorists. But in this case, because of the Iraq war, there was not a Predator they could use. The al-Qaida target got away.

What’s more, members of the CIA’s elite special activities division and the Army’s entire 5th Special Forces Group (Green Berets), who’d hunted down hundreds of al- Qaida terrorists, were pulled out of Afghanistan. The 5th, based in Fort Campbell, Kent., specializes in the Middle East and Central Asia. These soldiers are the ones who speak Arabic and Central Asian languages, so it’s only natural that they were some of the first to head to Afghanistan. But in May 2002, according to Army Special Operation Command spokesman Maj. Rob Gowan, the 5th Group was pulled out of Afghanistan and brought back to Fort Campbell. The 5th Group would deploy later for Iraq.

In Afghanistan they were replaced chiefly by the 3rd Special Forces Group, which is trained culturally and linguistically to operate in sub-Saharan Africa. The A-Team members speak French and various African languages, which would be of no value in the craggy Hindu Kush mountain range. Other Green Berets stepping into Afghanistan came from the 7th Group, which specializes in Latin America and has Spanish language skills.

more
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/viewtopic.php?topic=26824&forum=17

[Oversea Visitor]

69. I read

somewhere they were beheaded. Whether they were alive or dead before they were mutilated I do not know I am sorry.:cry:

Sometime the devil in us win especially in wars. :cry:

[alcibiades_mystery]

31. No, the helicopter that was shot down WAS the rescue team

Or rather, part of it. A Special Forces patrol was in the mountains patrolling. They had contact and called in reinforcements. The US sent in some fighter planes, then sent in two loaded and two unloaded Chinooks, as well as two Apache helicopters for cover. One of the loaded Chinooks was shot down, and rolled into a ravine. Because of weather and heavy groundfire, the rest of the rescue/reinforcements could not deploy. So, who's missing?

1) The 17 US personnel on the downed Chinook (some of whom were Navy SEALs)
2) The initial Special Forces team that called for reinforcements.

[shadowknows69]

61. a perfect ambush

the Taliban must have counted on the pinned down team calling for backup. just like the Russians they study our routine until they can come up with a counter. you'll never beat an invisible enemy.

[brokensymmetry]

16. Nominated. Everyone needs to see this.

Iraq is a bleeding sore, but Afghanistan just may be trying to catch up.

If you are so inclined, please join me in nominating this thread.

[Bluebear]

18. Gladly.

[wakeme2008]

19. Here is the link to the 35 dead from another thread

http://www.afghannews.net/printer.php?action=show&type=news&id=2896

Taliban down US ’copter; 35 troops killed
29. June 2005, 01:41

By Rahimullah Yusufzai
PESHAWAR (The News) - The Taliban claimed shooting down a US military’s Chinook helicopter and killing all 35 soldiers on board in Kunar province in eastern Afghanistan on Tuesday afternoon.

The Taliban also claimed killing another seven US soldiers in the same area in Kunar two hours before downing the helicopter. Mulla Mohammad Ismail, a pro-Taliban military commander in Kunar, told The News that 42 US soldiers were killed in two attacks in Shorek Darra in Kunar’s Manogay district.

If true, this would constitute the biggest losses for the US military since its invasion of Afghanistan in October 2001. A US military spokesman was quoted as saying that 20 soldiers were killed when the chopper went down.

..more atlink..

[Cocoa]

20. this war should have been over

three years ago.

[Bluebear]

22. That's what happens when you divert 120,000 troops and Billion$

"Not ready for duty, Sir."

[leftchick]

32. I agree Cocoa

if we did not have neo-freaks running this country our soldiers would be home now instead of getting killed for delusional dreams of empire grandeur in the ME.

:argh:

[The_Casual_Observer]

42. What makes you think "this war" will ever be "over"?

[Eloriel]

47. Excellent point. They DID promise us perpetual war, didn't they?

And let's not forget that book of modern prophcy, 1984: We have always been at war with Oceana.

[bloom]

83. That is what I'm thinking

I don't assume they ever wanted to win/tried to win/ or ever had that as a goal. :shrug:

[nguoihue]

57. This war

Should never have started in the first place.

[burrowowl]

65. That is for GD

sure!
I was against the Afghan 'war' as well. This needed police action.
Remember the Kyber Pass!

[oneighty]

23. Rudyard Kipling From Barrack Room Ballads

The Battle of Maiwand.

When you are wounded and left on afghanistan's plains

And the women come out to cut up your remains,

Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains

An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.

180--This poem has sang through my mind since the start of this adventure.

180

[htuttle]

36. Mine too

As well as this joke I read in Pravda a few years ago:

One day, a former Spetnaz soldier was getting his hair cut in Moscow. Every few minutes, the barber would lean forward and whisper in his ear: 'Kandahar!'.

Finally, the former solider turned around and asked, "Why do you keep whispering 'Kahdahar' in my ear?" The barber replied, "Every time I say it, your hair stands up and it's easier to cut."

[spanone]

25. I think they are downplaying this story in light of Shrubs speech.

Putting off the inevitable.

[lonestarnot]

27. FUCK the taliban! Tail waggers!

[bvar22]

30. This was SOP during the Russian occupation.

Surround an outpost or patrol in the mountains in a place that has only one or two passes suitable for a rescuehelicopter approach. Station men with rocket launchers in the passes. Bring the patrol under fire mortal enough to make them call for helicopter support. As the helicopters approach through the passes, they are brought under rocket fire.

[Dave Reynolds]

39. And somehow,

I imagine that our forces taught them that during the Soviet occupation.

Reaping what we sow.

[Freedomfried]

50. Not only that...Muhajadeen downs helos with rocks

They've been known to lure helicopters into narrow steep valleys and ravines where they had people hidden on the hillsides with large rocks to throw down thru the rotor blades.
They have on record a Soviet bird being downed in just this manner in around 1985.

A SEAL platoon normally has 12 members, for a helo insertion/extraction they would of been split into the 2 six-man fire teams in 2 birds, probably with the local Afghanis that they've been training up.

I wonder which team they're in, I guess it would be 2 or 4.

FF

[blitzen]

34. But what about Natalee Holloway? n/t

[leftchick]

35. I forgot to say how they have not been able to reach the crash site

Because of...

1. Bad weather

2. Crappy terrain

3. continued fire from the bad guys

:(

[brokensymmetry]

38. That says something, doesn't it?

Connecting the dots...

The U.S. has areas it cannot go...

The U.S. has a very long logistical tail...

The insurgency everywhere seems to be building...

Question: What happens if the insurgency builds to the point where they can cut units off from evacuation and resupply? Does this sound like a situation where we are going toward a disaster? Like, a hundreds (or thousands?) of troops lost disaster?

[Just Me]

44. The BushCo/neoCON corporacrats are a danger to our security.

They are a danger because they don't give a damn about securing anyone. They are in pursuit of exploiting everyone for themselves. They don't give a damn about humanity. They USE humanity. They are a freakin' disease,...spreading destruction,...in order to feed their greed!!!

:cry: I hate them!!! :grr:

WE DESERVE BETTER!!!! Damnit! Our lives are worth more than being spent by human monsters!!! :grr:

[leftchick]

40. Link From CBS news .... "possibly worst loss since war on terror began"

perhaps they are separating the "war on terror" from Iraq??..

~snip~


The chopper hit a mountain and rolled down a steep slope into a ravine, meaning that not only are 17 special operations force lives at stake, but the small team of American commandos on patrol that called for help might have suffered, Martin reports. The commandos have not been heard from since yesterday before the crash.

With more than 17 probable deaths, this incident could shape up to be the worst loss special operations forces have suffered since the war on terror began.

The coalition and Afghan troops "quickly moved into position around the crash to block any enemy movement toward or away from the site" and coalition support aircraft were overhead, the statement said.

It will take an investigation to determine whether or not this helicopter was, in fact, shot down, Martin said. If it was, this would be the first known instance of a helicopter being brought down by enemy fire. And if that means that the Taliban has figured out a way to shoot down American helicopters, this would be a major new threat, because helicopters are a primary means of transportation along those mountains.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/06/29/terror/main704968.shtml

[BeHereNow]

41. No matter, Free-to-be-dumb is ON the march!

And in case you have not heard, enlisting to serve
the corporate empire is the "highest calling!"
No stop clogging up the pipes with these depressing
factual stories about what it means to serve the empire!
:sarcasm:
May those responsible, in their lust and greed for financial gain,
burn in hell for all eternity.
BHN

[Straight Shooter]

43. Sweet Jesus.

No offense to the Christians on this board, it's all I can think of to comment. :cry:

[megatherium]

62. I'll take that as a prayer, I understand. nt

[killbotfactory]

46. Bush is a walking disaster

He just HAD to switch focus to Iraq. He and his jackal friends couldn't help themselves. Now we're paying for this fuck-up's mistakes in both areas.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

48. If you kick a wasps nest they tend to get nasty.

Everyone from Alexander the Great to the Brits to the Soviets have had a swipe at the wasps nest of Afghanistan and come out the worst for wear.

Americans are notoriously deficient in study of history. Maybe the geniuses at CIA and congress should take it up before deciding (again, and again) that war, even against apparantly weak third world countries, involves more than raising flags, declaring victory, and gearing up for the parade.

The Taliban was a brutal, murderous, regime in Afghanistan with a long, very long, history of brutal, murderous, regimes. As Alexander, the British, the Soviets, discovered, just proclaiming victory doesn't impress the wasps.

[pgh_dem]

79. If it hadn't worked so well in Guatemala and Iran in the 50s, maybe...

maybe they wouldn't STILL believe that all they have to do is raise flags, declare victory, and gear up for parades.

It has set swashbuckling US foreign policy on repeated courses of failure from Cuba to Vietnam to Nicaragua and on and on. These people think all they need is the right *message*, the right PR...they were right once, a loooooooong time ago, and the techniques obviously still work on american citizens, but it just ain't playing in Peoriastan, y'know?

[dogday]

49. All this time in Afghanistan and we still don't

have a handle on what's going on.

[bklyncowgirl]

51. Probably would have done fine if Dear Leader hadn't pulled the troops

from Afganistan into Iraq.

I actually had hopes a few years back that this Afganistan thing might work out. Our forces were working with a real Afgan resistance force. The people seemed happy to be liberated. There was a real multinational coalition with the Northern Alliance doing most of the fighting, the US & the Brits supplying knowhow and the Russians supplying weapons.

Then Osama and Mullah Omar rode off on muleback through the militas we bribed to catch him, Shrub pulled the troops out of Afganistan and we're facing the very real possibility of hopelessly screwing up not one but two countries.

[cynatnite]

55. Afghanistan is becoming another Iraq

The US gave the warlords their guns back and pulled out which gave them their power back as well.

Call Karzai a US puppet if you want, but I've always felt like he was trying to do the best he could for his people. I remember at one time he criticized bush over the lack of help he was getting. The guy can barely step outside Kabul as it is.

Yeah, shrub, thanks for the help :sarcasm:

[megatherium]

63. Bush never cared about getting bin Laden.

They immediately set their sights on Iraq (even before 9/11). Afghanistan was desultery at best, we let the warlords do our fighting for us, so bin Laden escaped.

The Taliban declared, as they melted back into the countryside from whence they came, that in 10 years they would be back in control. They said, first we would control major cities, then only Kabul, then Kabul would fall. I think they're on their game plan. I've read the book by "Anonymous" (Mike Scheuer). He says we will not win either the war in Iraq or Afghanistan. He is right.

[eridani]

64. Bullshit. The "real" resistance force--

--was the Northern Alliance, a collection of fundie warlord thugs who aren't that different from the Taliban. They ran Afghanstan in the early 90s, so atrociously that the Taliban were actually welcomed at first.

[lateo]

54. Not to worry folks...

Our great leader says it is worth it.

[fishnfla]

56. Drug production money gonna blow this place up more

our forces are over extended and recruitment down. The border there just as unlawful as it was when the Soviets got their asses kicked.

This sucks

[Disturbed]

70. Didn't Reagon and Bush1 give them..

Stinger Missles?

Didn't C. Powell deliver $43 Million to the Taliban?

Afghanistan cannot be colonized. Many have tried and failed. The bunglers of the Bush Regime will fail also.

[KeepItReal]

71. Kick for the MIA

Damn Bush & Co. for their "War on the Cheap" in Afghanistan

[leftchick]

72. The captured fighters are all equipped the same way too

I forgot to mention this. Dave Martin ended the CBS News segment by saying that all of the fighters captured lately were very well equipped, with the same stuff and it appears that they are being funded from an outside source.

ya think??

[WLKjr]

77. The United States ONLY TRAINED the Taliban some 20 years ago....