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DSB, Sep 2004: Muslims do not hate our freedom ... they hate our policies.

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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 07:57 PM
Original message
DSB, Sep 2004: Muslims do not hate our freedom ... they hate our policies.
We have those who "knew all along," and when the "Downing Street" documents were leaked, it was an "I told you so, kind of moment."

We have those who don't need the "Downing Street" documents or any other form of documentation to know that aggressive war is wrong, that torture is wrong, that occupying another nation is wrong.

We have those who have wanted to believe that their government would not lie to them. And now, with broken hearts and fatigued spirits, they are dealing with the reality of a long list of lies and an even longer list of atrocities attributed to the actions of their government.

This thread will not be 'news' to some. It will only increase the 'outrage fatigue' of those who've been confronting a reality they never expected would be a part of their American heritage.

This thread should, however, dispel any notion that senior members of our government were not comprehensively aware of the failings of Bu$h's policies during the interval of 2001 to September 2004.

The document that will be analyzed in this thread contains an assessment requested by Paul Wolfowitz in May of 2004. That assessment was performed during the summer of 2004, the results of which were transmitted by the Defense Science Board to the DoD on September 23, 2004.

This thread should bring to everyone's attention why it was so necessary for Bu$h's administration to suppress the release of the assessment until after November 2, 2004.

In fact, the document did not appear on the Department of Defense website until December 13, 2004.

I suspect they did not think anyone would read it. They certainly didn't anticipate that it could be being read now in the context of the "Downing Street" documents.

I am going to break the document into segments, and over a series of comments to this OP will post additional segments. I encourage those of you who are interested to dig into the full document and comment on those segments that most interest you.

Report of the Defense Science Board Task Force on Strategic Communication

September 2004

Office of the Under Secretary of Defense
For Acquisition, Technology, and Logistics
Washington, D.C. 20301-3140

(From pages 47-48):

The information campaign — or as some still would have it, “the war of ideas,” or the struggle for “hearts and minds” — is important to every war effort. In this war it is an essential objective, because the larger goals of U.S. strategy depend on separating the vast majority of non-violent Muslims from the radical-militant Islamist-Jihadists. But American efforts have not only failed in this respect: they may also have achieved the opposite of what they intended.

American direct intervention in the Muslim World has paradoxically elevated the stature of and support for radical Islamists, while diminishing support for the United States to single-digits in some Arab societies.

Muslims do not “hate our freedom,” but rather, they hate our policies. The overwhelming majority voice their objections to what they see as one-sided support in favor of Israel and against Palestinian rights, and the longstanding, even increasing support for what Muslims collectively see as tyrannies, most notably Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Pakistan, and the Gulf states.

Thus when American public diplomacy talks about bringing democracy to Islamic societies, this is seen as no more than self-serving hypocrisy. Moreover, saying that “freedom is the future of the Middle East” is seen as patronizing, suggesting that Arabs are like the enslaved peoples of the old Communist World — but Muslims do not feel this way: they feel oppressed, but not enslaved.

• Furthermore, in the eyes of Muslims, American occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq has not led to democracy there, but only more chaos and suffering. U.S. actions appear in contrast to be motivated by ulterior motives, and deliberately controlled in order to best serve American national interests at the expense of truly Muslim self-determination.

Therefore, the dramatic narrative since 9/11 has essentially borne out the entire radical Islamist bill of particulars. American actions and the flow of events have elevated the authority of the Jihadi insurgents and tended to ratify their legitimacy among Muslims. Fighting groups portray themselves as the true defenders of an Ummah (the entire Muslim community) invaded and under attack — to broad public support.

What was a marginal network is now an Ummah-wide movement of fighting groups. Not only has there been a proliferation of “terrorist” groups: the unifying context of a shared cause creates a sense of affiliation across the many cultural and sectarian boundaries that divide Islam.

Link to full document in .pdf format:

http://www.acq.osd.mil/dsb/reports/2004-09-Strategic_Communication.pdf


Suffice to note that Bu$h and his speech writer(s) for yesterday evening's lie-and-froth fest likely did not read the report.

Segments on topics like Department of Homeland Security, Patriot Act, and "diplomacy" are among those we'll highlight.


Peace.

www.missionnotaccomplished.us

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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. Not only has there been a proliferation of “terrorist” groups:
Terror is allying yourself with a group, use them, wad them up, then label them the biggest threat that you can imagine. Terror is being daisy cuttered, machine gunned, starved, herded into truck bodies only to die enroute to your destination or be gunned down once there, terror is having the poppy crop virtually wiped out in your country only to have it peak as soon as Marshall Dillon declares "Mission Accomplished", terror is not being able to tell some corporate bastards "no, your pipeline is not welcome in our country" for fear of guaranteed retribution.

Terror is as terror does, those who win the wars write the history... but this time, the historians had better get it right.
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LightningFlash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. "Mission not Accomplished" http://www.pdamerica.com n/t
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. Remember what KKKarl Rove said in NYC ten days ago:
<snip>
Here are the key passages: "Conservatives saw the savagery of Sept. 11 and the attacks and prepared for war; liberals saw the savagery of the Sept. 11 attacks and wanted to prepare indictments and offer therapy and understanding for our attackers."

Rove also went on to say this: "In the wake of Sept. 11, conservatives believed it was time to unleash the might and power of the United States military against the Taliban; in the wake of Sept. 11, liberals believed it was time to submit a petition."

And Rove said this: "...Conservatives saw what happened to us on Sept. 11 and said: We will defeat our enemies. Liberals saw what happened to us and said: We must understand our enemies."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/06/28/EDGM9DETLE1.DTL

Sure, Karl Rove is pushing the newer more updated version of McCarthyism.

<snip>
"Respectable opinion treats Rove's speech as just another partisan flap. It's much more. It's the reincarnation of a style of politics that turns political opponents into traitors or dupes who are soft on the nation's enemies. Welcome back to the '50s."

As for Muslim leaders, given the chance any one or group of them would annihilate the U.S. now regardless of who is right or who is wrong.
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LightningFlash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
3. Holy shit.....This was the ultimate hypocrisy!!!!
My god, Donald Rumsfeld was part of writing this report too.... :puke: :puke: :puke:

This guy Rumsfailed must have been so short-sighted he saw PNAC's plan as the only way to "save" Allah.

:wtf:

And he and the report basically lets out disgusting freudian slips of how 9/11 was allowed to happen. It's here in black and white. This can NOT be allowed to be let go!!! Save the documents and get them out, get the word spreading!

:mad: :mad: :mad:
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. You are correct. Fortunately, several of us have archived these ..
Edited on Wed Jun-29-05 10:18 PM by understandinglife
... documents. And, as you will see at the following site, considerable effort has already been expended to distribute alert folk to the deception and the details:

http://mindprod.com/politics/iraqdsb.html

I also want to acknowledge Kossack Apian for an excellent brief examination of the DSB:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/6/28/214326/089

The preliminary findings of the World Tribunal on Iraq, the Bolton fiasco, and the Downing Street documents have all motivated me to re-read the entire DSB report. I was one of those who had expected it to remain suppressed long, long after November 2, 2004 and was actually amazed when it appeared in mid-December.

As this thread expands, I will be linking segments of some of my recent posts, along with others, to the remarkable framework provided by the DSB report.



https://www.moveonpac.org/hagel-QT.html


Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us - A simple question, my fellow Americans, "Why is Bu$h not in prison?"


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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
6. Senator Kerry: "We need more than just words to get it right in Iraq."
Edited on Wed Jun-29-05 11:52 PM by understandinglife
Last night the President had a chance to move the country forward by laying out a specific course of action to make our troops safer and rescue the mission in Iraq.

Instead, the President took us backwards -- backwards to campaign style rhetoric and unshakeable stubbornness.

<clip>

But I've met a lot of Americans who fear the President has no plan to get it right in Iraq -- and they woke up this morning feeling the same way.

The President and the administration need to get their story straight about what is happening in Iraq -- and how they are going to get our mission back on track.

From their 24th different rationale for war, to the Vice President and Secretary Rumsfeld telling us the insurgency is in its "final throes" while last night President Bush said it is more dangerous than ever, Americans just want to hear the truth.

<clip>

We need more than just words to get it right in Iraq. We need actions and focus and leadership. We saw what happened after 9/11, in the mountains of Tora Bora, when the administration took its eyes off the ball when it came to hunting down and capturing Osama Bin Laden. We can't afford to let the same thing happen in Iraq.

Our troops are depending on us and we can't let them down. It's time to bring the country together to get it right. No more excuses, no more spin, and no more dividing the country on partisan lines.

The above is from an email received this evening from Friends of John Kerry, Inc., 511 C St. NE, Washington DC, 20002, U.S.A.


I agree Senator Kerry that we need to hear the truth - from everyone.

It is interesting how much truth the members of the DSB were willing to place in writing to the DoD in the Summer of 2004.

It is criminal that Bu$h and the neoconsters suppressed their assessment.

We can expect nothing but more lies from Bu$h and his fellow criminals, Senator Kerry, for many reasons.

But, one reason supersedes all the others, Senator Kerry -- if they start telling the truth they begin moving in an inevitable direction - TO PRISON.


Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us - How ever long it takes, the day must come when tens of millions of caring individuals peacefully but persistently defy the dictator, deny the corporatists their cash flow, and halt the evil being done in Iraq and in all the other places the Bu$h neoconster regime is destroying civilization and the environment in the name of "America."

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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Herbert: "Dangerous Incompetence"
Dangerous Incompetence

By BOB HERBERT
Published: June 30, 2005

The president who displayed his contempt for Iraqi militants two years ago with the taunt "bring 'em on" had to go on television Tuesday night to urge Americans not to abandon support for the war that he foolishly started but can't figure out how to win.

<clip>

The latest fantasy out of Washington is that American-trained Iraqi forces will ultimately be able to do what the American forces have not: defeat the insurgency and pacify Iraq.

<clip>

Don't hold your breath. This is another example of the administration's inability to distinguish between a strategy and a wish.

Whether one agreed with the launch of this war or not - and I did not - the troops doing the fighting deserve to be guided by leaders in Washington who are at least minimally competent at waging war. That has not been the case, which is why we can expect to remain stuck in this tragic quagmire for the foreseeable future.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/30/opinion/30herbert.html?hp


And, it is not as if many folk had not already made that assessment in 2002 -- particularly members of Mr Blair's inner circle of advisers and fellow MPs. It's not as if, by the summer of 2004, trusted advisers to the DoD were not sending a comprehensive message that the entire approach, not just to Iraq, but to the Muslim world was mortally flawed.

Many, many people have died since August 2004. The willful suppression of the DSB is a criminal act of the first order because that suppression prevented the American public from a crystal clear view of how flawed, how inept the lack of strategy and the practices of the Bu$h neoconster regime were - from 9/11, onward.

I ask, again, my fellow Americans, WHY IS BU$H NOT ALREADY IN PRISON?


Peace.

www.missionnotaccomplished.us

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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Coupled with an exceptional talent for telling LIES & committing MURDER!


Peace.

www.missionnotaccomplished.us - How ever long it takes, the day must come when tens of millions of caring individuals peacefully but persistently defy the dictator, deny the corporatists their cash flow, and halt the evil being done in Iraq and in all the other places the Bu$h neoconster regime is destroying civilization and the environment in the name of "America."


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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Truth is our most powerful weapon!
peace.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
10. "The fate of Iraq is a sideshow, the terrorist threat is a red herring,
Edited on Thu Jun-30-05 09:51 AM by understandinglife
.... and the radical Islamist’s dream of a worldwide jihad against the west is a fantasy, but the attempt to revive Pax Americana is real.” – Gwynne Dyer, Future: Tense, (2004)

"The huge irony and most telling contradiction in all this is that, while the U.S. advances its own sovereignty supposedly to defend itself by bringing democracy and human rights to oppressed people, sovereignty weakens abroad and democracy and human rights are under even greater threat in the American homeland. Surely this historical contradiction tells us that it is time to rally around another non-imperial vision.

From the outstanding essay: "The Doctrine of Humanitarian Intervention & The Neo-Colonial Implications of its Revival in our Unipolar World"

by Jim Harding


June 24, 2005 Session of the World Tribunal on Iraq
http://www.worldtribunal.org/main/?


You may find it interesting to read the full essay by Jim Harding; it is a cogent summary of the use of "humanitarian intervention" to justify a variety of acts that are anything but 'humanitarian' or legal. However, my reason for bringing Harding and Dyer's observations to your attention is to compare them to another segment of the September, 2004 DSB report.

Chapter 2 – The New Strategic Environment
2.1 The Cold War Paradigm


In the second half of the 20th century U.S. national security was driven by the Cold War. America and its allies faced a seemingly powerful adversary—the Soviet Union — whose strategic objectives were inimical to our own. During this long struggle we used the various elements of national power—diplomatic, informational, military and economic— to advance our interests. There is a conviction held by many that the “War on Terrorism” will have a similar influence in the 21st century. There are indeed similarities between the two struggles, and strategic communication will be as central to this war as it was to our Cold War strategy.

Throughout the Cold War the U.S. used a variety of informational and cultural means to weaken Marxist-Leninist regimes and keep alive the hope of freedom for tens of millions behind the “Iron Curtain.” Over the course of the Cold War era a suite of organizations — especially the Voice of America, the United States Information Agency, and a broad program of cultural and educational exchanges — spearheaded this effort. Several Presidential decision directives staked out the central role to be played by strategic communication.

When Ronald Reagan stood in Berlin in June 1987 and demanded, “Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall”, he was speaking to a live television audience of millions behind that wall. East Germans had been watching Western TV for years, but Reagan turned this reality into a powerful metaphor that the wall’s days were numbered.

The Cold War transformed the entire U.S. national security structure, and created what has been called the “national security state.” The National Security Act of 1947, the web of military departments and intelligence agencies that it created, and the overriding doctrines of deterrence and containment, were integral to the Cold War. But above all the Cold War represented a conservative strategy that nurtured a conservative mindset: its strategy spoke of change, but its pervasive charge in contrast was to preserve.

Despite seemingly black-and-white differences in governments and policies, over time we came to resemble our adversary, as our adversary came to resemble us. The U.S.S.R. generally acted like a normal nation state with which we could conduct diplomacy, conclude treaties, and engage in statecraft with a reasonably predictable leadership. By the 1960s the possibility of nuclear war declined as the terrible recognition of its apocalyptic consequences grew. In fact, both sides increasingly sought the assurance of stability to keep even the possibility of nuclear confrontation at arm’s length. But stability encouraged — even demanded — predictability, and thus the bureaucratic activities of both sides became highly routine. The Cold War evolved over time into a ritualized struggle that sought its own comfortable perpetuation. The very idea of “victory” slowly transformed from the idea of defeating Communism to the more perfect realization of “stability.” Thus the Cold War’s end and outcome, with Russia in the 1990s reduced almost to a client state of the U.S., came as a shocking surprise.

Our thorough inability to grasp the final dynamic changes that led to the end of the Cold War should be unsettling to us, but after all, the outcome was also a total victory. So the Cold War template was almost mythically anointed in the decade before 9/11. Thus, with the surprise announcement of a new struggle, the U.S. Government reflexively inclined toward Cold War-style responses to the new threat, without a thought or a care as to whether these were the best responses to a very different strategic situation.

The creation of the Department of Homeland Security and the passage of the Patriot Act were two such representative organizational and legislative responses. There will surely be many more the longer the struggle goes on — because deeper expectations within the Washington policy and defense cultures still seek out Cold War models. There is an expectation that, like the Cold War, the U.S. will naturally create enduring alliances and coalitions. Moreover, if the Cold War could be described as a struggle against one form of totalitarianism — Marxist-Leninism — so too there is a desire to describe the “War on Terrorism” as a struggle against yet another form of totalitarianism — this time in the form of a radical Islamist vision. Thus the problem is presented as one of how to confront and eventually defeat another totalitarian evil. And as with the Cold War, many now also declare that it is incumbent on the U.S. to assume leadership in this struggle.

But this is no Cold War. We call it a war on terrorism ¯ but Muslims in contrast see a history-shaking movement of Islamic restoration. This is not simply a religious revival, however, but also a renewal of the Muslim World itself. And it has taken form through many variant movements, both moderate and militant, with many millions of adherents¯ of which radical fighters are only a small part. Moreover, these movements for restoration also represent, in their variant visions, the reality of multiple identities within Islam.

If there is one overarching goal they share, it is the overthrow of what Islamists call the “apostate” regimes: the tyrannies of Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Jordan, and the Gulf states. They are the main target of the broader Islamist movement, as well as the actual fighter groups. The United States finds itself in the strategically awkward — and potentially dangerous — situation of being the longstanding prop and alliance partner of these authoritarian regimes. Without the U.S. these regimes could not survive. Thus the U.S. has strongly taken sides in a desperate struggle that is both broadly cast for all Muslims and country-specific.

This is the larger strategic context, and it is acutely uncomfortable: U.S. policies and actions are increasingly seen by the overwhelming majority of Muslims as a threat to the survival of Islam itself. Three recent polls of Muslims show an overwhelming conviction that the U.S. seeks to “dominate” and “weaken” the Muslim World. Not only is every American initiative and commitment in the Muslim World enmeshed in the larger dynamic of intra-Islamic hostilities — but Americans have inserted themselves into this intra-Islamic struggle in ways that have made us an enemy to most Muslims.

Therefore, in stark contrast to the Cold War, the United States today is not seeking to contain a threatening state/empire, but rather seeking to convert a broad movement within Islamic civilization to accept the value structure of Western Modernity — an agenda hidden within the official rubric of a “War on Terrorism.”

But if the strategic situation is wholly unlike the Cold War, our response nonetheless has tended to imitate the routines and bureaucratic responses and mindset that so characterized that era. In terms of strategic communication especially, the Cold War emphasized:

• Dissemination of information to “huddled masses yearning to be free.” Today we reflexively compare Muslim “masses” to those oppressed under Soviet rule. This is a strategic mistake. There is no yearning-to-be-liberated-by-the-U.S. groundswell among Muslim societies — except to be liberated perhaps from what they see as apostate tyrannies that the U.S. so determinedly promotes and defends.

• An enduringly stable propaganda environment. The Cold War was a status quo setting that emphasized routine message-packaging — and whose essential objective was the most efficient enactment of the routine. In contrast the situation in Islam today is highly dynamic, and likely to move decisively in one direction or another.

The U.S. urgently needs to think in terms of promoting actual positive change.

• An acceptance of authoritarian regimes as long as they were anti-communist. This could be glossed over in our message of freedom and democracy because it was the main adversary only that truly mattered. Today, however, the perception of intimate U.S. support of tyrannies in the Muslim World is perhaps the critical vulnerability in American strategy. It strongly undercuts our message, while strongly promoting that of the enemy.


No way, Bu$h and the neoconsters were going to allow anyone to read this assessment prior to November 2 2004.



https://www.moveonpac.org/hagel-QT.html

Peace.

www.missionnotaccomplished.us

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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Senator Boxer: "Bush's..attempts to link the Iraq War to Sep 11 is a myth"
President Bush's use of Osama Bin Laden's words to defend America's policies was bizarre in the extreme. And his continued attempts to link the Iraq War to September 11th is a myth. In fact, on September 11th, according to George Bush's own State Department, there was not one Al Qaeda cell in Iraq! As a result of this President's misguided war, Iraq is now a training ground for terrorists, and refusing to set a goal for withdrawal is only further fueling the insurgency.

The President defended his war and now says our mission is to "hunt down the terrorists." This mission has changed so many times it's hard to keep track -- from finding WMD's, to removing Saddam Hussein, to holding elections, to rebuilding Iraq, to training Iraqis to defend their country, and now to "hunting down terrorists."

President Bush also missed a golden opportunity Tuesday night to pledge to our troops that they would get all the equipment they need on the battlefield and all the health care they need when they come home.

All in all, the President defended the status quo and gave very little hope for an exit to this horrible quagmire. Now, it falls to the Congress to demand accountability from this administration and a clear exit strategy to ease the incredible strain on our troops, many of whom have had three tours of duty!

I'll be providing more of my own views on Iraq in a speech next week, ...

Received in an email from Barbara Boxer (info (at) pacforachange.com)


I hope Senator Boxer makes use of the Sep 2004 DSB as it provides an important framework for her to demonstrate just how comprehensively Bu$h and his evil regime continue their deception of the American people.


Peace.

www.missionnotaccomplished.us

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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Boston Globe: "Having framed the Iraq war in a dishonest way, can ...
Edited on Fri Jul-01-05 01:58 PM by understandinglife
...the president really expect the informed public to believe his presentation about how the stabilization effort is going?

Certainly Bush's speech started on a highly deceptive note, portraying the grinding conflict in Iraq as a necessary response to the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

More than a year ago, the 9/11 Commission reported that there was no ''collaborative relationship" between Iraq and Al Qaeda.

Still, implications that Iraq was complicit in Sept. 11 and claims that Saddam had ties to Al Qaeda worked well for the Republicans in the 2004 campaign. They used the former tactic to deftly duplicitous effect at their national convention. In other venues, both Bush and Vice President Cheney insisted there was a relationship -- ''a whole series of contacts, high-level contacts," Cheney claimed -- between Al Qaeda and Saddam's regime.

Read more of A record of deception, by Scot Lehigh at:
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2005/07/01/a_record_of_deception


Now that's stating it exactly as it is.



http://www.newsparkproductions.org


Peace.

www.missionnotaccomplished.us - How ever long it takes, the day must come when tens of millions of caring individuals peacefully but persistently defy the dictator, deny the corporatists their cash flow, and halt the evil being done in Iraq and in all the other places the Bu$h neoconster regime is destroying civilization and the environment in the name of "America."


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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. "A majority of Americans now realize that ...Bush deliberately misled..."
America Held Hostage

Paul Krugman

July 1, 2005

A majority of Americans now realize that President Bush deliberately misled the nation to promote a war in Iraq. But Mr. Bush's speech on Tuesday contained a chilling message: America has been taken hostage by his martial dreams. According to Mr. Bush, the nation now has no choice except to keep fighting the war he wanted to fight.

<clip>

The Iraq that emerges once U.S. forces are gone won't bear much resemblance to the free-market, pro-American, Israel-friendly democracy the neocons promised. But it will pose less of a terrorist threat than the Iraq we have now.

Remember, Iraq wasn't a breeding ground for terrorists before we went there. All indications are that the foreign terrorists now infesting Iraq are there on the sufferance of a homegrown insurgency that finds them useful for the moment but that, brutal as it is, isn't interested in an apocalyptic confrontation with the Western world. Once we're no longer targets, the foreign terrorists won't be welcome.

The point is that the presence of American forces in Iraq is making our country less safe. So it's time to start winding down the war.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/01/opinion/01krugman.html?hp






Peace.

www.missionnotaccomplished.us - How ever long it takes, the day must come when tens of millions of caring individuals peacefully but persistently defy the dictator, deny the corporatists their cash flow, and halt the evil being done in Iraq and in all the other places the Bu$h neoconster regime is destroying civilization and the environment in the name of "America."



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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
11. When a cabal knowingly endangers national security,....
,...in order to achieve an imperialistic profiteering scam, what is that called?

Moreover, it was bad enough that this Corporate regime has been endangering our security for 30+ years exploiting people around the globe. Now, they are in power, abusing the resources of their own people and country to advance their scam.

Criminal corruption of the highest order.

Treason.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
12. Kick!
:kick:
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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
13. This will never end so long as we remain addicted to oil...
So long as we remain committed to the dead-end concept of a constant-growth economy and fail to address the effects of severe population pressures, this cycle will only grow worse. Oil is what lies at the heart of these issues, and our addiction to it.

I would suggest you read Michael T. Klare's Blood and Oil for a good description of how our policy toward the Middle East has "evolved" over the years since WWII. I'm reading it now, and it's quite enlightening in showing the self-interested hypocrisy that has driven our policy toward the Gulf states.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
15. Ray McGovern comments on Bu$h's castrati.
Edited on Thu Jun-30-05 06:16 PM by understandinglife

"Forget the documentary evidence (the Downing Street minutes) that the war on Iraq was fraudulent from the outset. Forget that the US and UK started pulverizing Iraq with stepped-up bombing months before president or prime minister breathed a word to Congress or Parliament. Forget that Defense Secretary Rumsfeld and his merry men - his co-opted, castrated military brass - have no clue regarding what US forces are up against in Iraq. The president insists that we must stay the course.

As was the case in Vietnam, the Iraq war is being run by civilians innocent of military experience and disdainful of advice from the colonels and majors who know which end is up. Aping the president's practice of surrounding himself with sycophants, Rumsfeld has promoted a coterie of yes-men to top military ranks - men who "kiss up and kick down," in the words of former Assistant Secretary of State Carl Ford, describing UN-nominee John Bolton's modus operandi at the State Department. So when the president assures us, as he did yesterday, that he will be guided by the "sober judgment of our military leaders" he is referring to the castrati."

From Stay the Crooked Course By Ray McGovern 29 June 2005:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/062905X.shtml


Ray McGovern has a few words about the few who are not of the castrati and do know their stuff.


Lt. Gen. William Odom (US Army, ret), the most respected senior intelligence officer still willing to speak out on strategic and intelligence issues. Unfortunately, you would have to understand German to know what he thinks of "staying the course" in Iraq, because US media are not going to run his remarks.

Here is my translation of what Gen. Odom said last September on German TV's Panorama program:

When the president says he is staying the course, that makes me really afraid. For a leader has to know when to change course. Hitler did not change his course: rather he kept sending more and more troops to Stalingrad and they suffered more and more casualties. When the president says he is staying the course it reminds me of the man who has just jumped from the Empire State Building. Half-way down he says, "I am still on course." Well, I would not want to be on course with a man who will lie splattered in the street. I would like to be someone who could change the course ... Our invasion of Iraq has made it a homeland for al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups. Indeed, I believe that it was the very first time that many Iraqis became terrorists. Before we invaded, they had no idea of terrorism.


Ibid: http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/062905X.shtml


General Odom's comments are remarkably consistent with the assessment of the considerable 'hardening' of disdain and distrust of America from 2002 onward in the Muslim world, as noted in the DSB document of September 23 2004:

Muslims see American policies as inimical to their values, American rhetoric about freedom and democracy as hypocritical, and American actions as deeply threatening.

.... chart suggests an even more worrisome development. A similar series of questions showed even more favorable opinion ratios in favor of U.S. culture and its values — in 2002. Thus it seems that in two years the Jihadi message — that strongly attacks American values — is being accepted by more moderate and non-violent Muslims. This in turn implies that negative opinion of the U.S. has not yet bottomed-out, but is in fact continuing to move dynamically. But the movement is now qualitative rather and quantitative, meaning that regular Muslims are moving from “soft opposition” toward “hard opposition.”

In Saudi Arabia, a large majority believes that the U.S. seeks to “weaken” and “dominate” Islam itself — in other words, Americans have become the enemy. It is noteworthy that opinion is hardest over against America in precisely those places ruled by what Muslims call “apostates” and tyrants — the tyrants we support.


This should give us pause.

Thus it is incumbent on the U.S. strategic information campaign to first find a way to address this near-unanimity of Muslim opinion hostile to the U.S.. If we want to truly demonstrate the linkage between American power and the universal values we support, and if we want to truly build a bridge between ourselves and the Muslim World, then we must first open a working channel of communication with that world, which as of now does not exist. Furthermore, if regular Muslims are indeed moving to hard “opposition” to the U.S. then we have only so much time to open such a channel before the possibility is closed for the duration of this war.

Therefore it is not enough for us to preach to Muslims, telling them that they need to show us that they believe in our values — such as tolerance and pluralism — and that they must reject the bad values of the violent Islamists. It is patently patronizing, for example, to keep bringing up Islam’s “Golden Age” as though we were scolding Muslims for some sort of civilizational backsliding. This is in fact a counter-productive approach; a non-starter. If we really want to see the Muslim World as a whole and the Arabic speaking World in particular, move more toward our understanding of “moderation” and “tolerance,” we must reassure Muslims that this does not mean that they must submit to the American Way.

In other words, as we seek out Islamic voices that share essential beliefs with us, we must convey an important message of reassurance to them — before we can expect to usefully talk with them.

From pages 45-47 of: http://www.acq.osd.mil/dsb/reports/2004-09-Strategic_Communication.pdf


From my perspective, Bu$h means 'stay the course.' And, the course he is on is having exactly the consequences he intends.
He intends perpetual war and for that he needs a perpetual enemy.

He is breeding that perpetual enemy in Iraq, now. And, if others in the Muslim world want to align with 'the insurgents', then they simply help Bu$h expand his geopolitical scope.

He will use every excuse that perpetual enemy provides him to ratchet the war making industries.

And, he will use that perpetual enemy to justify denying freedom to any person who dissents with him by facile association -- 'libruls support da enemy when they krit-cize me.' (Homeland Security, Patriot Act, Negroponte spying on every US citizen .... all, anticipated, by the way, in the Sept 2004 DSB).

Our enemy, the enemy of America and our Constitution, the enemy of humanity is Bu$h's neoconster regime. We will not defeat that enemy until we stop pretending that who they are and what they are doing has an semblence of ethics, of morality, of commitment to We The People.... .




http://www.newsparkproductions.org/


Peace

www.missionnotaccomplished.us

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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. "war without end might truly prove to be Mr. Bush's lasting bequest"
No Solution and No Apology as President Runs Out of Ideas

Simon Tisdall
The Guardian

30 June 2005

<clip>

Like a recidivist incapable of going straight, Mr. Bush plunged back into the scaremongering rhetoric of last autumn's election campaign and once again deliberately conflated the Iraq war with the 9/11 terror attacks.

As before, he offered no way back and no joint, consensual path forward. Instead he ignored his critics, rewrapped himself in the flag, and gloried, from a safe distance, in the sacrifice of America's soldiers.

<clip>

Paradoxically, if any such a dreadful event ("another al-Qaida attack") were to occur, America's defender in chief would be sure to claim personal vindication.

In such a case, war without end might truly prove to be Mr. Bush's lasting bequest to the American people.

Link:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1517824,00.html


As long as we allow Bush & the neoconsters to nurture perpetual war they will continue to use the blood of Americans to do just that.



Peace.

www.missionnotaccomplished.us - How ever long it takes, the day must come when tens of millions of caring individuals peacefully but persistently defy the dictator, deny the corporatists their cash flow, and halt the evil being done in Iraq and in all the other places the Bu$h neoconster regime is destroying civilization and the environment in the name of "America."
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LightningFlash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. This is disgusting!!!!!
Why isn't this all over RAWSTORY and NPR and elsewhere now!?!??

Are they surpressing the truth??? Damn, get the truth about 9/11 out there and spread it like fire!!!!!!

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 01:31 AM
Response to Original message
19. See this 50-minute UK broadcast on CIA kidnapping and torture of Muslims
Edited on Fri Jul-01-05 01:32 AM by Nothing Without Hope
and you will understand a bit more:

http://www.indybay.org/uploads/torture_dirtybusiness.rm

(Approx 50 min, Real Media format, contains graphic content and much very solid testimony. Should be seen by ALL Americans.)

Sorry - I was too late to recommend for Greatest Page, but that's where this thread truly belongs.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Tough to watch, but way, way tougher to realize it is done by America.
We have a long, long way to go before ideals match deeds.


http://www.newsparkproductions.org/


Peace.

www.missionnotaccomplished.us - How ever long it takes, the day must come when tens of millions of caring individuals peacefully but persistently defy the dictator, deny the corporatists their cash flow, and halt the evil being done in Iraq and in all the other places the Bu$h neoconster regime is destroying civilization and the environment in the name of "America."

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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Sometime in the next couple of days I'll post a thread on rendition
and extraordinary rendition by the CIA and include it htere. The link was sent to me by DUer redacted. I figure it's time for an update on this abominable - and routine - practice. With this broadcast and a newly available MP3 file of a devastaing BBC prodcast on it in February, plus new doings in Italy, there's a lot to share.

Please repost this thread UL, it's important. Sometimes they just get overlooked. When you DO repost, please PM me with a link so I can support the effort to get this important information OUT.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Thank you. I may wait until 4 July 2005 to repost. Will definitely ...
... send you a PM when I do. Appreciate your interest and I urge you to assemble a thread on the rendition issue.

Peace.

www.missionnotaccomplished.us
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. thanks. In the meantime, here's my EARLIER THREADS ON RENDITION;
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1740193
Thread title: “MUST READ- French article on US TORTURE with interviews of ex-CIA agents”

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1821261#1822059
Thread title: CIA's EXTRAORDINARY RENDITION finally comes to the NY Times - sort of

The first one is mostly on the work of the respected British investigative journalist Stephen Grey, who has been studing this issue for some time. His work is widely known in Europe. I now have an MP3 file of a broadcast he did on rendition in February on BBC Radio - will post the link in the new thread.

The second one is on how a big NYT article that basically glamorized CIA rendition didn't even mention tht it was illegal. They made it look like mysterious, exciting Spy vs. Spy stuff, very dashing. i was so disgusted over this - but probably not as disgusted as Stephen Grey, whom they made a coauthor and whose work they supposedly used in the report.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
21. Maybe repost this evening, UL? We can get it on the GP
Thank you.

:kick:
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. DEFINITELY - this belongs on the Greatest page and we can get it there.
:kick:
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