Time for some truth. I have NEVER been discriminated against for

[Bouncy Ball]

being a Christian. Not once. Ever.

In fact, quite the opposite. I live in Texas. If a fundie is bugging me, I can just say "Well, I'M a Christian..." with that smug face I've seen them make so many times and they leave me alone immediately. (Then I puke because I made that face...)

The mother of a friend of my daughter's consulted me for advice on reading material for her daughter because she knows I have a degree in that area AND she said, because "you're a Christian woman."

She was so gullible, I got the feeling I could have justified almost any material to her, just because of those qualifications (I ended up telling her no, I don't think reading the Harry Potter books will rot her daughter's mind).

About a year ago, I was in a conference and a woman befriended me and asked me if I was "right with God." I was very taken aback but told her, curtly, that I am a Christian (I was raised to believe it's rude to ask such things, thus my curtness). WELL hot damn, I had a new best friend. She kept griping about the two other women in her group and how she didn't think they were "right with God" and "us Bible-believing women have got to stick together" wink wink nudge nudge. Now, I don't necessarily consider her friendship to have been a boon, since I think she wasn't "right in the head," but you get my drift, right? If I were an unscrupulous person, I could have asked her for money for my "new woman's ministry" and I think, sadly, she would have whipped out her checkbook on the spot.

I've never been glared at for wearing a "strange" headdress. I don't know what it's like to get weird looks for a Star of David around my neck (although I've seen that done). I don't know what it's like to be shunned by my neighbors because we don't go to church or because we worship a different God, or no God. Other Christians automatically consider me (and themselves) to be an authority on the Bible, even though I know atheists and agnostics who know it FAR better than I ever have. Or ever will! I've never had a single person move away from me, put their children behind them or hold onto their purse more tightly upon noticing me.

The name of the God I believe in is on the money in my wallet. The name of the God I believe in is in the pledge of allegiance my daughter says each morning in school. Writings from the Bible my religion is based on are in courthouses and displays all over the country. My God's name is invoked all the time, before sporting events, in Congress, in Presidential speeches, and as Jon Stewart so aptly pointed out, people of my belief have occupied the White House....since the United States first had a president. In fact, in almost every state (or is it every state), you cannot even RUN FOR OFFICE if you claim there is no God.

I am a Christian, and as such, I enjoy certain benefits in this country. I've never been hassled for my religious beliefs. (I've been harrassed plenty for my political beliefs, though!) Someone on the internet saying I believe in imaginary creatures hardly counts as harrassment, and I find it so novel and unique as to cause me to giggle every time it happens. So THAT'S how it feels! :D

So what's all this victimization bullshit? Seriously, I want to know. When I hear these people talking about how they are such victims of horrible persecution, I want examples, hard examples and I never get them. Or I get this flimsy shit that doesn't even support their case. Oh, so the Ten Commandments can't be displayed in every single public school building, county hospital and courthouse? THAT makes you a victim? Hardly.

So what's this about? How exactly am I a victim because of my religious beliefs? I'd love to know, because so far, all I've seen is the opposite.

[tubbacheez]

1. Easy. You tend to get more sympathy points if you can claim...

... you were victimized because of your association with a larger group.

A person gets zero sympathy points if your victimhood is because s/he was a jerk. Plus, nobody likes to admit they were a jerk.



Result? Lots and lots of jerks claiming they were victimized because they were (insert popular majority group here).

[Bouncy Ball]

2. But that claim isn't based on anything factual

and as such, deserves no respect.

[tubbacheez]

8. You know that. I know that. But too many people don't.

It's an old ploy, as old as the hills.

It goes like this: Be a jerk. Get stomped on. Tell your community you got stomped on by some meanie just because your part of that community. Urge the community to hate the guy who stomped on you. Feel great.

It's a classic recruiting tool. It slices. It dices. It massages your feet afterwards.

It's bogus of course. But that doesn't stop people from using it.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

3. Victimization.

A total construct that began with Pat Robertson.

[Bouncy Ball]

4. Yep. A complete and total lie.

Hell, I don't even care if God's name is on the money and I don't think they ever should have put it in the pledge.

But supposedly I'm a great big persecuted victim. Riiiiight. :eyes:

[Gay Green]

13. It started earlier than that

it hails from the era immediately after the Civil War and IMO it's the central characteristic of Southern Identity Politics.

[mike_c]

5. more to the point, have you ever discriminated against someone else...

...who's not a Christian, or would you? Would you feel uncomfortable voting for a muslim, or an atheist? Have you ever declined to do business with someone who doesn't share your beliefs, or who believes that your's are wrong? Do you believe that people who have other beliefs are less deserving than you in any regard, including less deserving of God's favor?

That, to me, is the crux of religious discrimination. Fundies who profess themselves persecuted for their faith are often the first to persecute others, even if only implicitly, so it makes perfect sense that they'd be overly sensitive on that account-- PLUS fundamentalism reveres the persecution of Christian martyrs for their beliefs. Belief in the face of persecution sanctifies-- so a little manufactured persecution can sure make one feel washed in the blood of the lamb.

[Bouncy Ball]

6. In answer to your questions:

No, no, no, no, no, no and no.

I only discriminate against bush voters. LOL!

But seriously, no, and I wouldn't. I'd love to be able to vote for an atheist, because you don't have to have religious beliefs to be a good person. And separation of church and state is extremely important to me.

But as to your theory, I think you are on to something.

[oregonjen]

7. My very Repuke Christian friend would disagree with you

I have since decided not to socialize with her because I can't go along with her beliefs. In many conversations we had up until last year, she was frustrated with...Having to call a Christmas party at her daughters school a winter fest, the Christmas tree in Downtown Portland having to be called the Holiday Tree, her marriage being threatened by gays because if gay marriage were legal, she would have to verify to others that, yes, indeed, she was married to a man. That among many other examples. She's tired of bending and changing Christian symbols to accomodate others' beliefs. She feels that the Christian religion is being discriminated against.

[prole_for_peace]

10. well i am tired of "those people" changing halloween to "harvest"

makes me want to puke. yup dressing up as a witch or monster or whatever will make your child want to be one. idiots. they have taken this fun time out of some of the schools and now it is all pumpkins, hay and squash. BORING!!! they have even tried (and probably succeeded in some areas) trick or treating. they say it is for safety but we all know that is bs

[Bouncy Ball]

12. Yeah!

And I'm tired of them trying to ban every freaking book in the world, too!

[prole_for_peace]

15. i used to have a tee shirt that said "celebrate freedom,

read a banned book" and went on to list a bunch of them. i wish i still had that shirt.

[Bouncy Ball]

11. Eh.

And for every school calling the Christmas party the winter fest, there are still fifty schools calling it the Christmas party.

And even if every single public school started calling it the winter fest, who cares? That doesn't stop her from practicing her beliefs, does it?

And the whole gay marriage threatening her marriage thing is such a huge crock of shit, I won't even address it except to say it's just a convenient way to be a freaking bigot homophobe AND if a person's marriage is that weak, they need to be in counseling anyway.

I honestly think they get off on feeling victimized. I think a big part of them totally enjoys rending their garments, howling, and clawing their faces about the supposed slights.

[oregonjen]

14. Our conversations stayed mainly about our children, but when

she started talking like this, it made me sick. She constantly sent me fundie email and I would counter, but neither one of us read each others words. So, I made a decision to just not associate with her.

[mikelgb]

16. christianity

in its present form is a religeon cobbled together from many pagan and other traditions. xmas tree is definately pagan so is the fact that the day of rest was moved to sunday... oh if the sheep knew

[Dervill Crow]

22. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[prole_for_peace]

25. i used to try to tell people that.

and that jesus was not born on dec 25. scholars think it is was in the summer some time, there is no historical evidence of a census at that time and it probably wasn't in bethlehem (?). and so on.
but they don't listen.

i am such a devil. i LOVE stirring up controversy. like when i told a rw co-worker the real story about columbus. good times.

[Dervill Crow]

17. I used to be a repug and a Christian.

I enjoy Christmas so much more as a pagan! All the fun holidays are pagan in origin. I felt really conflicted about how secular and shallow our Christmas celebrations are.

[Dervill Crow]

9. I'm not sure this counts.

I'm hardly ever invited on camping trips with my husband and his friends because I'm a bit straight-laced compared to the rest of them. However, since reverting back to my heathen upbringing they still don't invite me, so it may be that it's just not fun for them having someone relatively sober around, be they pagan or born-again.

[prole_for_peace]

18. i sometimes feel discriminated against by THEM.

they want to tell me what i can read and what i can watch. yellow page ads identify businesses as "christian" or have a jesus fish on them. there is a place here that says it has the best burgers in town but it has a fish and "god bless you" on the sign and i just don't want to go in.

they need to keep their religion of my life. if they won't to live and belive a certain way, more power to them but back the fu*k out of my face.

but i am not bitter about it or anything.

[Bouncy Ball]

20. LOL!

I concur. I'M a Christian and I get sick of all the chest beating about it. I mean, okay you're a Christian, you want a COOKIE or something?

[prole_for_peace]

23. mmmm, cookie.

[EC]

28. Maybe we should just patting them on the head and saying

good, good for you.....

[eridani]

19. Most Christians are, like yourself,--

--perfectly sane people. The younger generation is getting away from believing in Shift keys, and so doesn't bother to say "Christian" when referring to Falwell et al. Being an old fogey, I always do that.

[lildreamer316]

21. Ahh. My point exactly. Thank you!n/t

[rateyes]

24. The reason they feel persecuted is because

so far, the SCOTUS has upheld the First Amendment and the part of the constitution that requires NO religious test for office. If a fundie doesn't get his/her way on ANYTHING, it's, in their mind, persecution because they are a Christian.

No one is stopping anyone from expressing their religion---they can even pray in school, as long as it's not led by someone paid by the state, is completely voluntary, and no one is forced to hear it or even respect it.

Next time you hear a Christian say they are being persecuted, tell them they ought to "Rejoiiiice" for Jesus said, "Blessed are those who are persecuted..."

[Tux]

26. Sheesh

Persecution never ends. First, "people of my belief have occupied the White House....since the United States first had a president." Wrong. Some were Deists. I have no idea why Christians want to remove Deism from America (Deists only founded it after all).
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Religious-affiliations-of-Presidents-of-the-United-States-of-America
List of Deist Presidents:
George Washington
Thomas Jefferson
James Madison
James Monroe
John Tyler
Abraham Lincoln

You are right in that evangelicals are too trusting of anyone with authority. Seems like faith is the brain's off button. As for their persecution problem, it is nothing more than disagreements. For that, they are persecuted. Someone not Christian, the Christian is persecuted for being around non-Christians. Don't like others practicing their religion? Christians are being persecuted. It's childish and selfish. Seems as though they can't handle a modern, global world. People can communicate with others across the Earth and learn new ideas they won't normally have been exposed to at any other time. Their main fear is life, change, and America. They fear uncertainty in life, they fear change of pluralism, and they hate America for letting people grow up and leave Christianity for something else.

I am harsh on Christians but someone needs to be. Evangelicals and even liberals ones are shocked that everyone isn't Christian in KY. Last Nov., at the local Democrat HQ, a woman shot some Bible paragraphs at me and wondered why I asked her what she was babbling about. She looked scared and asked if I was a Christian. I said that I was not. She still looked scared yet explained what she meant. This was a liberal event and I still get treated as a monster for being a Deist. I can't understand what problem Christians have with non-Christians. You'd think they wouldn't care but fundies are infecting every Christians church they can reach. Eventually, Christianity will be fundie only.

[Bouncy Ball]

33. Ok Deists, whatever. People got my point.

I wasn't wanting to split hairs, sheesh.

[XemaSab]

37. lot of them were masons

n/t

[EC]

27. I usually laugh at people when they start that bull-shit with me....

I kinda wish they got what they wanted with the Commandments, then when everything remains the same (since we all know most crime and bad behavior stems from poverty and bad economic policies, and that won't change with Repuges in office) we can then ask them what was the outcome they were hoping for with the Commandments on display everywhere, and it didn't work did it? But with them you give an inch, they'll take a mile...

[rucky]

29. It's just about the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard

white christians crying discrimination.

that's like millionaires going on strike

[Bluerthanblue]

30. it's part and parcel of the fundementalist

mindset- which i USED to be a part of-
Now i'm a follower of Christ- and have been set free from much of the
'religious' mind twisting i was part of- and propigating.

The bible (which for many professing christians, is thier TRUE 'god') says that 'you will be hated for following Christ'- and to many, that means, looking to BE hated, and rejected is 'good' and 'praiseworthy'- a kind of 'twisted righteousness'.

Odd, but Jesus said, you will be hated and called crazy for following me- Just as MLK jr. was, just as WSCoffin was, just as many who truly follow the path of peace, tollerance, and reconcilliation are- Do you find yourself being acceptied by your 'religious' contemporaries? the 'hard-liners'? the only discrimination i ever experience is at the hands of fundementalist christians, and boy, some of them can be pretty hate-filled, and brutal- but that's what fear brings out in many people-

[Tsiyu]

31. There is no persecution of Christians in America

It makes me sick when I see well-fed, well-heeled, well-housed people claim persecution. When they're all in prison being torured, denied housing and jobs, spit on in the streets, then they might know persecution.

They only feel persecuted because they can't force all of us to bow down to their intolerance.

However, I have never seen a Christian DUer claim that they were persecuted in America at large. I have seen other DUers make fun of them, call them mentally ill, and otherwise disparage the Christian DUers and that is wrong.

I'll lambast and poke fun of the fundies my whole life, because they are ignorant idjuts, but I will not lash out at any progressive Christian on DU just because I am agnostic.

Now, because you are a Christian, will you get more respect than Rainbowreflect? Her thread about intolerance on DU was riddled with childish posts ridiculing her religion.

I hope we can all distinguish between fundies and progressive Christians. It's an important distinction.

[paula777]

32. You are a victim - but not because of your religious beliefs

From reading your threads I can tell you are definitely a victim. Hey did you figure out the AC is your car runs off the battery yet and doesn't effect your gas milage or are you still driving around sweating it out like a victim?

[Bouncy Ball]

34. Hey you sound like someone vaguely familiar.

Watch out, wouldn't want to give yourself away now, would you?

Nope, I'm not a victim at all. Sorry to burst your bubble! LOL!

How does whether or not I run my ac affect you? Can you explain that?

[JanMichael]

35. Please, please tell me how you got from "never discriminated against"

to "victim" from this post????

Good God, it's cocktail hour here in the South; and yet your post makes me wonder if I have had enough coffee yet.

[Bouncy Ball]

36. ...

:spray:

[JanMichael]

38. Yep, you are right....time to just walk on downstairs to the liquor

cabinet......

[Kathy in Cambridge]

39. hi paula

:hi:

[Zhade]

40. Thanks, BB.

Once again, I admire your honesty and integrity.