Kerry is okay.

[smartvoter]

Kerry fumbled the Swifties and Ohio. I was unhappy about both of these events, and wrote some heated posts about them at the time (here and elsewhere). But, does this erase a lifetime of service? Or everything he's doing now?

In the Senate, we have what, Kerry, Kennedy, Boxer, and a handful of others consistently taking on the tyrannical majority?

Kerry is offering solutions for ending Iraq correctly. He is contradicting persistent misreporting that Dems have no solutions, only complaints, by spelling out plans in editorials and doing interviews opposite of Bush's bogus speech. He called Rove on his B.S. He is pushing the Kid's First Act. Although his letter the other day didn't focus on machine fraud, S 450, which he introduced with Boxer, Clinton and Lautenberg, addresses the issue and the write up at his site leads with the issue (http://www.johnkerry.com/features/count/). He is opposing Bolton. He opposed Rice. He opposed the nuclear option. And the list goes on and on.

Many of us like to point out that that Gore put up a better post- election day fight than Kerry, and it is true. But Gore faded out after Bush was selected. Kerry is getting this part of the fight right. He's out there reminding a public increasingly disenchanted with Bush & Co. that we had it right. He is our "I told you so," which we badly need to carry us through these next, critical election cycles.

Say what you want, but our side could do a hell of a lot worse than John Kerry.

[Wetzelbill]

1. Kerry has always been ok in my book

[Blue_In_AK]

2. Thank you, SmartVoter.

How refreshing.

[knowbody0]

3. Kerry has my respect

from way back in the 70's to now. i consider him a true patriot

[smartvoter]

54. Agreed. nt

[understandinglife]

4. FYI.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3982913&mesg_id=3984701



https://www.moveonpac.org/hagel-QT.html

Peace.

www.missionnotaccomplished.us - How ever long it takes, the day must come when tens of millions of caring individuals peacefully but persistently defy the dictator, deny the corporatists their cash flow, and halt the evil being done in Iraq and in all the other places the Bu$h neoconster regime is destroying civilization and the environment in the name of "America."

[smartvoter]

8. Right on point. nt

[AllyCat]

5. I would disagree that Gore faded out

Gore has not held public office again and is speaking to a different crowd. I never liked him all that much, but the speeches he has given at different colleges and universities around the country have been well-written, well-delivered, and insightful. I think he has gone a different route than Kerry.

I've felt that Kerry has not done much after the election. But I am finding that my assessment was wrong. He has been doing quite a bit on the Senate floor and on his blog. The media just refuses to give him any press. He is still fighting for us. Both men are fighting for us.

[smartvoter]

7. Gore did come back around after a while and made some great

speeches.

[politicasista]

11. Thanks for the post

Gore was done so wrong here in this state. Even in his hometown of Carthage. How can you live in TN and not like Gore? He is cool with me as is Kerry. I am glad they and others are fighting for us too.

[FreedomAngel82]

63. I love Gore too

I think he's so brilliant and would've been great as a president. I wish he could run again. I've seen one of his speeches not long ago and it was about Iraq and Bush's failures and he did so great. The crowd loved him too and he got so much great applause.

[smartvoter]

92. Yeah. The fired-up Gore is great to listen to. nt

[GetTheRightVote]

6. I called him today & thanked him for his speeches as he fights onward

against the * admin and all their evil deeds.

:kick:

[DisassemblingHisLies]

9. Thanks, smartvoter.

I've never lost faith in Kerry & I'm proud that he's on our side.

[undeterred]

10. He's a good leader and a good man.

[zann725]

12. If we could just turn back Time to Nov. 2, 6:00pm...knowing what we know

today...

What a different world it'd be.

Perhaps in a Parallel Universe...

[CrispyQ]

32. Great photo!

He has such a wonderful smile. I think John is doing an admirable job for our side & I stand by him.

[FreedomAngel82]

64. What a graet photo!!

I love the photo. The puppy is so cute! Is that his dog or someone else's and he's doing a photo? I wish other people could know Kerry like we do. :loveya:

[undeterred]

82. I first saw it last fall, so I think it was taken during a campaign stop

If I'm not mistaken, his German Shepherd died last year. Not sure if he has another dog or not. Anyway, he's a dog lover. This photo's from when he served in Viet Nam.

[Sydnie]

13. Watching President Kerry work is like watching

a sculptor chisel away at a rock. Each tap is carefully considered. The rock is investigated for its innate properties yet you know there is a thing of beauty lying dormant, waiting to be exposed. Just when you think the artist is finished and you are observing the finished product, he proves you wrong by lifting the tools again to strip away a bit more of the rock, exposing even more of the truth within the piece.

He has not disappointed me yet. I will continue to wait for the artist to complete the work. It will be a thing of beauty when he does.

He IS my President.

[yurbud]

14. How is Kerry different on Iraq apart from renouncing base plans?

Hillbilly Hitler art:



Blog:

[EC]

17. He would not have "stayed the course"

if you heard him or Clark speak in person, you'd remember they had plans to set **'s mess right and get out of there...Starting with the booty that ** split up with his cronies, giving it back to the Iraqi's, putting the Iraqi's back to work. (Just last week there was a kidnapping of some contractors by Iraqi's, they did release them, but the ransom was jobs...so I'm thinking that would have been a good start at fixing the problems over there...)I'm reading Michael Moore's "Will They Ever Trust Us Again" right now and there is a letter in there from a soldier telling of some of the real mess ups (p.33 Andrew Balthazor) and much of it is the people ** choice to run the country after they took over...and the pillaging of Iraq's oil and all businesses...

[yurbud]

46. EC: Got a link for booty quote? That is a crucial difference

Starting with the booty that ** split up with his cronies, giving it back to the Iraqi's

It seems to me this would have been a crucial thing to say clearly and bluntly in the debates, where I remember him making the same point about bases, but not challenging the legitimacy or rationale of the war, which was essentially about the "booty"--oil.



Without saying that clearly, the difference between Kerry and Bush on Iraq is like the sane and crazy crooks in a heist movie. The crazy guy starts shooting or beating on people in the bank and the sane guy says, "Hey, knock that off. We're just here to ROB them."



Hillbilly Hitler art:



Blog:

[sandnsea]

18. How is he the same?

He supports torture? He supports Halliburton? He is against the UN and NATO taking legitimate and active roles? He alienates other ME countries? He supports using our troops as oil cops? He believes in the US global domination theory? He leads Americans to believe we're fighting terrorism in Iraq? He refuses to fund our troops and vets?

Tell me, in which one of these areas is he the same as Bush? :shrug:

[LittleClarkie]

24. Here's a good link

www.kerryoniraqwar.com

Well, for one, he doesn't have his head up his ass.

[yurbud]

81. For those defending Kerry, do you believe WMD &

War on Terror justification for Iraq?

You can't have it both ways.

You can't say Bush is lying then cheer Kerry for playing the same cards slightly differently.

Hillbilly Hitler art:



Blog:

[TayTay]

86. Kerry didn't

and he said so in his speech and in his comments after the * speech the other night.

[smartvoter]

90. Correct. I saw him say he has to plead guilty to not questioning prewar

intelligence enough. His position was always to go through the process with the U.N., but now that we're there, we should try to get it right.

[LittleClarkie]

95. Only if one buy's the basic "dime's worth a difference" premise

which I don't. What part of "wrong war, wrong time, wrong place" is unclear?

He believes that terrorism and international crime is indeed a problem. He also has said repeatedly that Hussein needed to be held accountable. He said that all the way back to 1997. But by that he meant getting the inspectors back in.

He considers Iraq a distraction from the things we should be doing for national security. We wouldn't have been there if he had been in the White House during 9/11 because he wouldn't have cooked the intelligence. And we wouldn't have let bin Laden go in Tora Bora.

Did you READ the link even?

[smartvoter]

96. Couldn't have. nt

[yurbud]

99. find Kerry talking about Iraq's oil there and let me know

seriously.

I did a search of the site and couldn't find it.

I am willing to be persuaded, but I think you are partly missing my point.

Kerry is still mostly buying into the Bushies terms of debate rather than calling bullshit on it.

[yurbud]

97. I read it. I'm looking for him to cut the shit and talk

about the oil and hegemony motive.


Even if Saddam had WMD, he would not be a threat to us.

We have thousands of nukes, and no one smart enough to take over a country would be stupid enough to risk nuclear annihilation, especially if he was sitting on top of a trillion dollars worth of oil.

I want to believe that Kerry intends to do the right things, I would like to see evidence newer than 1971.

As I said before, if he laid out what the Bushies are really doing there in plain language, it would be game, set, match.

I want to hear him say we have no designs on Iraq's oil or putting our oil companies in position to control the spigot not just of Iraq but the whole region, not just because it is morally wrong, but because the oil companies are in no way going to share the love with us.

Do you understand that this terrorism and WMD stuff is all bullshit?

Saudi and Pakistan paid and gave logistical support to the 9/11 hijackers, and Pakistan is not a possible but an ACTUAL WMD merchant, and it barely created a blip. We only care about that when it's useful for other reasons.

I want someone to talk to me like an adult, not a fucking idiot.

I actually think Kerry is a good candidate for doing that, and I'm disappointed that he hasn't.




Hillbilly Hitler art:



Blog:

[yurbud]

98. I read it. I'm looking for him to cut the shit and talk

about the oil and hegemony motive.


Even if Saddam had WMD, he would not be a threat to us.

We have thousands of nukes, and no one smart enough to take over a country would be stupid enough to risk nuclear annihilation, especially if he was sitting on top of a trillion dollars worth of oil.

I want to believe that Kerry intends to do the right things, I would like to see evidence newer than 1971.

As I said before, if he laid out what the Bushies are really doing there in plain language, it would be game, set, match.

I want to hear him say we have no designs on Iraq's oil or putting our oil companies in position to control the spigot not just of Iraq but the whole region, not just because it is morally wrong, but because the oil companies are in no way going to share the love with us.

Do you understand that this terrorism and WMD stuff is all bullshit?

Saudi and Pakistan paid and gave logistical support to the 9/11 hijackers, and Pakistan is not a possible but an ACTUAL WMD merchant, and it barely created a blip. We only care about that when it's useful for other reasons.

I want someone to talk to me like an adult, not a fucking idiot.

I actually think Kerry is a good candidate for doing that, and I'm disappointed that he hasn't.




Hillbilly Hitler art:



Blog:

[EC]

15. Thanks, after the last thread I read, I needed this

I was very angry with the Dem's the Same as Repuges post, because it just shows that people still are not paying attention.

Kerry has always fought for the people and I felt it was his testimony that got us out of Nam (rather the questions and answers part, where the Committee members asked him how to get out without jeopardizing lifes), so I am sure he would have got the job done and got us out of Iraq quickly and correctly...

[yurbud]

80. I agree about Kerry & Vietnam, but I didn't see

that Kerry running for President. I listened to that speech on Democracy Now and bought it on DVD.

But what I heard him say during the campaign and the other day was he would have done a better version of the same war in Iraq without exposing lies at the very core of it, that we were stealing the country for oil companies who have no intention of sharing the booty with the rest of us.

If he won't say that, then I can only conclude he thinks that's a good idea.

If he did say that as forcefully and plainly as he opposed the Vietnam War and as Howard Dean says just about everything, he would have won in a landslide that would have been difficult for cheating to overcome, and if he said it now, people would be in the streets helping to overturn this sustained assault on our democracy.

Instead, he sounds more like Emily Post telling someone they used the wrong fork to eat their salad.

And I voted for the guy--the 1971 guy. I'd like to believe that guy is still alive, but I think the tie choked him to death.


Hillbilly Hitler art:



Blog:

[sandnsea]

16. "we had it right"

That is exactly it. Even if you don't want Kerry in '08, it's a damned site better for WHOEVER runs if we can point to our '04 candidate and say DEMOCRATS WERE RIGHT.

[saracat]

19. Amen sandnsea! Absolutely right on.

[JCMach1]

20. Kerry has the same problem he always had- Iraq

His moral failure to vote against the war cost him the presidency. Those people in the mushy middle saw little disctinction between Kerry's proposed Iraq position and Bush's.

So, they answered: "Why vote for him?"

The failure of our party is our continued failure to distinguish ourself from the enemy.

Until Dems learn to oppose and fight back, we are doomed.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

27. The electronic voting machines cost Kerry the presidency...

...not his postion on the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq.

Think about this for a second...would Kerry have been seen in a better light before Election Day 2004 if had voted against the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq?

Would moderate GOP and Dem Congresspeople be more or less willing to listen to him now and cooperate with him?

Is it better for him to be seen as a Senator who voted to invade Iraq in support of anti-terrorism, and has now changed his mind in light of the ongoing conflicts in the Middle East, or not?

Until some Dems realize what REALLY happened during the elections of 2000, 2002, and 2004, we are doomed.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

21. Too bad Kerry had to run against electronic voting machines...

...otherwise, his vote tally would have been recorded correctly.

[Helga Scow Stern]

22. He would have won by a clear margin.

[fooj]

23. Yes. You are absolutely right!

I gave my word that I would never let these monsters steal another election and I plan to keep it. We need to step up and take responsibility for insuring each and every American has their vote counted. I guess I feel that it's an obligation as mush as a right.

peace.

[lateo]

38. I agree...

And what I can't forgive Kerry for is his just giving up and going home...

[kster]

25. Kerry is doing

great, he keeps making all the right moves, if more Dem's and Republicans would see the light and get on board with him, he would be a force to be reckoned with. But the other Dem's and the republicans are being cowards, So it will take a little longer for * and vice * to feel the full wrath of Kerry.

Kerry fought for the country back then, I very much doubt he is going to stop fighting now.

A.W.O.L - versus - War Hero, Any questions?

Bush, Chenney BOO !

[kerrygoddess]

28. No questions!

:kick:

[kster]

26. self delete

[kster]

29. self delete

[PittLib]

30. I turned on the TV at work as Kerry was responding to *'s speech ...

and a co-worker sighed and replied, "God I miss that face". It was sort of sad, as though all hope was lost ... yet endeared me even so.

[JohnnyCougar]

31. Kerry = Zero charisma

I really like John Kerry. I like a lot of people with zero charisma. But I don't think that they should be president. I think Kerry is extremely smart. But he doesn't project himself as a leader. It is simple. And his campaign didn't show that he was a leader. There was infighting and bickering among his own campaign staff. Kerry will never be able to take the gloves off and fight like Rove.

[ginnyinWI]

52. Kerry is an Alpha-male

He has more leadership in his little finger than Bush ever had. He does have a lot of charisma. Anyone who's seen him in person will agree. Very magnetic. Look at these faces.

<img src="" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">

[oasis]

53. Kerry would be a great president. The election night news floored me.

:-(

[JohnnyCougar]

55. No, he's not

That's why the election was so close. The Bush strategy was to portray Bush as the Alpha male, and Kerry as an indecisive ninny. The strategy worked well. Kerry didn't come out fighting. He started to fight near the end, but it was too late.

First impressions are usually lasting impressions. And Kerry's was one of impotence.

[bobbieinok]

76. corporate media created our image of Kerry....never showed him interacting

and making contact with crowds

Kerry was only covered negatively on national media

so who knows what his campaign speeches were like??? those who were there

on DU we saw pictures of very large and enthusiastic crowds for Kerry...those (the majority of voters) who didn't have access to the internet or who didn't/don't realize it can be used to get something other than US corporate media propaganda--those people saw nothing of this enthusiasm and excitement and thought the media depiction of a boring, out-of-it NE elitist was correct

we'll never get our message out to the majority of voters if we don't do something about the media's slavery to the RW republicans

....and, of course, if we don't rescue the voting process from paperless, hackable voting machines

[smartvoter]

91. We heard this over and over. He was met by enormous, enthusiastic

and NOT pre-selected crowds and the reporting afterward was always flat.

[smartvoter]

65. Great photo. Somehow missed it earlier. nt

[FreedomAngel82]

67. That's one of my favorites

I like seeing him with kids and babies. They seem to really like him. I remember seeing a photo of him with a group of kids and he's down at their level talking to them. There's also a black and white photo of Kerry when he was running for the Senate in a classroom and a little girl is resting her head on his knee while he reads a story. Does anybody have that photo?? I have it saved on a disc but it's not around me now.

[FreedomAngel82]

66. Why don't you think he has charisma?

Go to cspan.org and watch some of his rallies. He's fine. You just need to take the time to get to know him and see him.

[bunny planet]

33. He's more than OK IMHO, but thanks Smartvoter. Nice post.

[smartvoter]

45. I hear you.

This was an attempt to point out to those who are still hopping mad about the November Kerry that he's more than the guy who should have fought harder in Ohio.

[bunny planet]

50. Absolutely.

;-)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

34. Kerry is a pathetic political opportunist who voted for the war.

And, still supports the occupation and wants even more killers in Iraq.

[CWebster]

35. Garbage

Kerry DOES NOT, I said DOES NOT, and again, Kerry DOES NOT challenge the fundamental legitimacy of this war crime, which he voted for and now frames as "our mission". He is a disgrace.

[confludemocrat]

36. Kerry is NOT OK. He is so OVER

still more of the accumulated and accumulating evidence:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theblog/archive/george-lakoff/rove-rides-again-with-_3414.html
ends with this:
"But the Democrats helped Rove get Iraq identified with the war on terror again, characterizing the Democrats as unpatriotic naïve weaklings, and setting the stage for Bush’s address on June 28, 2005, in which he followed Rove’s lead and again framed the Iraq War in terms of 911 and the war on terror. This time John Kerry stepped in to help Bush, basically supporting the president’s position but offering policy-wonk modifications. The message: Bush is basically right, except for some minor twiddles.

The Democrats can learn from Bush and Rove: Stick to your guns and stay the course."

[emulatorloo]

37. ROVE is so over -- "Frames" are so OVER -

Let Rove and Repugs "Frame" away -- there are "Frame" shops at every mall. We will push back w facts and proposals and ideas and values.

Dean Kerry etc are on message watch their speeches and appearances.

If you and Huffington and the "Frame" person want to bash dems just as they are regaining their voice, knock yourself out.

[confludemocrat]

39. OK, attack rockribbed Demo stalwarts if it serves your Kerry idolatry

Knock yourself out. And to those who can't get over the reasons behind the the Kerry failure in 2004, you need to come to terms with it and move on. And seek someone who is not forever compromised by that blank check he gave Bush that led to where we are now, need I recite the full extent of the Iraq disaster.

This is not about Rove really, its about Bush enablers, I noticed there was no disputing of the closing point Lakoff made.

[paulk]

48. "blank check"

the IWR was not a blank check. Kerry's floor speech on the IWR was certainly not a blank check.

Why do you repeat these lies? Why do you so incessantly attack John Kerry? Why do you hate him so much?

[confludemocrat]

51. I Don't hate Kerry, he should just be the moderate Dem Sen from Mass

as he always been. He is nothing more than that. Well, 22-23 other people in the Senate voted against the Iraq War Resolution, they saw it for what it was, as Byrd called it in the debate it was in fact a " blank check", he was right. And no, I don't hate Kerry but I think he should move to work on being a true statesman and stop running for president. And stop the positioning alongside Bush on the Iraq war.

[emulatorloo]

56. "moderate Dem Sen"

try liberal dem sen check out voting record and ranking at http://www.adaction.org/lifetimesenmassachusetts.html

confludemocrat or confusedemocrat?

yeah yeah IWR etc etc etc

good for those who voted against it! not happy w those who voted for it.

can understand why some did, though, especially those who were a) against weapons proliferation thier entire career b) assured by Colin Powell that war was a last resort and Bush really really really just needed some leverage w the UN to get the inspectors in.

[confludemocrat]

60. Yeah, a middle-of-the-roader to whit:

ACLU 60%

Public Citizen (consumer advocacy) 27%

League of Conservation Voters (environment) 53%

Peace Action 20%

Citizens for Global Solutions (promotes democratic global institutions for solving the world's problems) 63%

American Immigration Lawyers Association (advocate for justice and human rights) 0%

Workplace Fairness (employee rights) 20%

Friends Committee on National Legislation (the lobby group of the Quakers) 50%

Population Action International (family planning; educational and economic opportunities for women; slowing global population growth) 0%

Jews for Peace in Palestine and Israel -1

Key votes, many Iraq war related these can give the lie to thoughts he was for this or that about the war, it certainly doesn't come out in the wash:

S J Res 45. Amendment to Iraq war authorization to require president to go through the U.N.: authority for war could be authorized only in the event of Iraq's noncompliance with new U.N. resolution; a separate grant of authority would be required if the president wanted to act unilaterally. Oct 10, 2002. NO

S J Res 45. Vote to Reaffirm Congress's Constitutional Power to Declare War: use of force not connected to an imminent threat (preemption) would require additional grant of authority from Congress. (Resolution Authorizing the Use of Force in Iraq) Oct 10, 2002. NO

S 257. Vote to deploy a National Missile Defense system capable of defending against limited ballistic missile attack as soon as it is technologically possible. Mar 17, 1999 YES

S 517. Vote to establish a new automobile fuel efficiency standard that would encourage increased use of alternative-fueled and hybrid vehicles. Mar 13, 2002. NO

HR 4775. Vote to Exempt the U.S. from Following Directives of the International Criminal Court and Will of International Community. Jun 06, 2002. YES

HR 3009. Enable the President to Place International Trade Agreements Above Worker and Environmental Protections with No Changes Permitted by Congress. Aug 01, 2002. YES

S. Con. Res. 23. Vote to Eliminate Bush Tax Cuts to Reduce Deficit Spending and Protect Domestic Spending Priorities. Mar 21, 2003. NO

HR 622. Economic Stimulus/Amendment to Provide Tax Breaks to Corporations. Jan 29, 2002. YES

HR 3734. Welfare Reform/Vote limiting previous rights of children, immigrants, the poor, and the elderly; limiting free speech rights of not-for-profit organizations; establishing national identification database. YES

S 254. Juvenile Justice/Vote for Tough on Crime__ Measures: children as young as 14 to be tried in adult federal court; opens some juvenile records to schools and employers. 1999 YES

S. 1956. Government Funding of Religious Institutions/Vote to require state governments to contract with religious institutions to provide taxpayer-funded social services, proselytizing permitted. YES

HR 3103. Health Care Reform/Vote to give government and businesses access to confidential medical information about individuals without their consent; establish a national patient identification system. YES

HR 2202. Immigration Reform/Vote to limit rights of new immigrants; shield INS abuses from judicial sanction; erect substantial barriers to those seeking asylum. YES

S. 1664. National Identity Card/Vote to establish a national identification system employing computer databases to keep track of all Americans. YES

S 1510, HR 3694 and others. Facilitation of Wiretapping/Votes to increase FBI wiretap authority; permit law enforcement agencies to use "roving" (indiscriminate) wiretaps; increase authorization for "emergency" wiretaps without the prerequisite of a court order. 1995-9 YES

He has a poor attendance record, including being absent during these very close votes:

H.R. 2658. Vote to Defeat an Amendment Designed to Identify U.S. Military Intentions on the Legal Handling of Detained Individuals (might have prevented Abu Ghraib). Jul 16, 2003. (passed)

S. 1050. Defense Authorization/Vote to Proceed with the Development of "Low-Yield" Nuclear Weapons. May 21, 2003. (passed)

H.J. Res 2. Vote to Restore Funding for Education, Medicare, Medicaid, and Other Domestic Programs Previously Cut in Republican-Drafted Bill. Jan 17, 2003. (defeated)

H.J. Res. 51. Vote to Increase the Debt Limit, Passing On Higher Debt Payments to Future Generations. May 23, 2003. (passed)

S. 1054. Vote to Prevent Budget Deficits By Delaying Implementation of the Dividends Tax Until the Federal Budget Returns to Surplus. May 14, 2003. (defeated)

S. 1050. Vote to Insure that Women Soldiers Have Access to Abortions When Stationed Overseas. May 22, 2003. (defeated)

S 3. Vote to Allow "Dilation and Extraction" Abortions In Cases Where the Mother's Health Is Threatened By Pregnancy. Mar 12, 2003. (defeated)

S. 3. Vote to Require Hospitals to Make Available Emergency Contraceptives to Victims of Sexual Assault. Mar 11, 2003. (defeated)

H.R. 2658. Defense Appropriations/Vote to Defeat an Amendment to Redirect $1.1 Billion to Help Fight AIDS Pandemic. Jul 17, 2003. (passed)

H.R. 2658. Vote to Defeat an Amendment to Create an Independent Commission to Investigate the Role Played by U.S. Intelligence Officials in Developing and Using Erroneous Intelligence About Iraq's Weapons Program to Justify U.S. Military Action. Jul 16, 2003. (passed)

H.R. 2658. Vote to Defeat an Amendment to Withhold Intelligence Funding Until the President Submits to Congress a Report Detailing the Role Played by White House Policy-Makers in Developing and Using Erroneous Intelligence About Iraq's Weapons Program to Justify U.S. Military Action. Jul 17, 2003. (passed)

H.R. 2658. Vote to Defeat an Amendment to Require the President to Submit a Plan for Post-War Reconstruction of Iraq. Jul 16, 2003. (passed)

H.R. 2658. Vote to Defeat an Amendment to Require the Defense Secretary to Submit to Congress a Cost Estimate of Military Operations in Iraq. Jul 16, 2003. (passed)

H.R. 2658. Vote to Defeat an Amendment Designed to Prevent Part-Time Military Personnel From Being Stationed in Iraq for Extended Periods. Jul 15, 2003. (passed)

S 762. Vote to Kill an Amendment Expressing the Sense of the Senate that the President Should Develop a Plan to Raise Revenues to Fund the Costs of the War in Iraq. Apr 03, 2003. (passed)

S 762. Vote to Kill an Amendment to Provide Equipment to the National Guard and Reserves On Par with Equipment Afforded to Full-Time Soldiers. Apr 02, (passed).

Liberal my ass.

[FreedomAngel82]

69. Oh brother

Kerry is a liberal democratic Senator right after Kennedy. So is Kennedy that way too?

:rofl:

[smartvoter]

84. I know. It's bizarre. nt

[emulatorloo]

72. I have the internet too!

Yr cherry picking groups and votes, finding the narrowest range of interests (versus a group like ADA which take a broader view) and making a lot of hay out of it

Jews for Peace in Palestine and Israel -1
American Immigration Lawyers Association (advocate for justice and human rights) 0%
Population Action International (family planning; educational and economic opportunities for women; slowing global population growth) 0%

! ? ! ? ! ? ! ? ! ? ! ? ! ? ! ? ! ?

OTOH League of Conservation Votes was pretty much of a hard core advocate for him during the last election -- google away. . . .

[confludemocrat]

83. The devil (or the fencesitter) is in the details

Only the bigfooted groups matter I guess to the Kerry worshippers. Now explain (or apologist-) away the nuts and bolts of being a nonliberal so evident to all but the most hardcore here.
Yes, I have my internet, which is hell for those who have the faith because there is so much to show you that you don't know and from which one cannot escape.

[smartvoter]

85. Does name calling make you feel superior when your intellect fails? nt

[FreedomAngel82]

68. LOL

He's been in the Senate for over twenty years. You obviously know nothing on Kerry. Just rightwing bs. Nice try though!

[emulatorloo]

58. ok I'll dispute LAKOFF"s statement - it is stupid and disingenuous

Neither Dean nor Kerry nor other "rockribbed dems" is saying "Bush is Basically Right."

Listen to what they are saying, not what the cool bashers of Dems say they are saying.

Bush whines that our troops cant leave because the borders are pourous and we can't get the infrastructure rebuilt or train Iraq to protect itself.

Dean and Kerry et all say OK, PROTECT THE BORDERS THEN, YOU IDIOT. SO WE CAN REBUILD THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND GET OUT>

[second edition]

41. Rove & CO. seem to be "one trick ponies"-9/11 .

Isn't it unbelievable that they keep referring back to this tragedy to gain support. How contemptible that they continue to milk this sad time in our history for their own benefit.

[Redleg]

75. Just because Kerry violated Lakoff's rules doesn't mean that Kerry

intentionally worked to support Bush. I could say that because you are criticizing John Kerry that you must have preferred Bush. I know that's a b.s. frame but that's how framing works.

[second edition]

40. WHAT A WONDERFUL POST! THANK YOU!

It's nice to see that you have been following his votes and initiatives. I agree with you, we could do a lot worse than Kerry, although I will add, we can't do much better than this excellent senator also. Ignore the two or three regular jokers who insist on repeating the same old worn out negative comments about Kerry. They're just misguided and angry IMHO.

[kwolf68]

42. Good post but

I don’t agree with your synopsis of Gore. He faded out, but what was he to do?

Kerry lost, but still had a job in the Senate.

What could Gore have done? Become a talk show host or go on Crossfire? That would have been totally demeaning to him and what he means to this nation.

Gore did right…he’s just sharpening his sword to fight another day, mark my words. President Al Gore isn’t done yet….stick around until 2008 to see what I mean.

[smartvoter]

44. This would be an interesting turn of events. Let's see what he does. nt

[FreedomAngel82]

70. What do you mean??

Care to elibrate? I'm curious. I remember earlier this year hearing rumors of him running for something in 2008 from his wife in an article.

[Hidden Stillness]

43. Nicely Put--Okay is Sometimes Good Enough

This was a nice way to put it--Kerry is not Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt, or Sens. Boxer, Kennedy, Harkin, Conyers, or etc., now, but there are still a lot of impressive things about Kerry, who would've been, and may yet be, a great President. Some Floor votes, etc., you won't like, but this is usually the case. Kerry is always smart and moral.
Like most people who were paying any attention, I was also horrified when they suddenly shifted from the real war in Afghanistan to this thing in Iraq, but now that we are there, having destroyed their whole infrastructure, museums, schools, and taken their jobs, oil, and oil profits (wherever it all went to), it would be demonically immoral to now blithely leave just 'cuz we're okay. We do have a moral obligation to fix whatever we can, after we destroyed all, just because Republicans are so stupid and greedy that all they wanted was conquest and plunder. They can start by imprisoning Halliburton executives, starting with Cheney, and giving all oil profits to the Iraqis; it is theirs.

Sometimes, we need something other than "tough fighting"; sometimes we need intelligent diplomacy, if we are ever to get back to our place of national greatness.

[oasis]

47. Democrats have able leaders and John Kerry is at the top of the list.

[paulk]

49. thanks for the positive Kerry thread

yes, Kerry has made mistakes - but he's still one of the best we've got.

With the newest wave of negative Kerry posts inundating DU, your thread is a lifesaver.

[Dr Fate]

57. I wish he were more media savy- but I generally support his efforts.

How is that for a half-assed endorsement?

I'm still following him as my possible man for 2008- Kerry, Clark & Gore are my faves, not in that order.

[smartvoter]

59. I think the Swifty mess was a gross miscalculation of the current media.

I don't know for sure, but I would bet you a dollar to a doughnut that they figured it would blow up on the Swifties and make Bush look bad. They were changing their own stories, after all, and the people ON THE BOAT were telling the same story they used to tell.

The newspapers did get it right. They figured out the Swifties were full of it. But the broadcast media never reported they'd been debunked.

It was a huge blunder, but I think they expected the press to do its job. It would be hard to find an easier lie to debunk.

[Dr Fate]

61. I know. So many DEMs still appear to operate under that assumption.

I think you nailed it- now if the top DEMs could get out of their bubbles and realize this is not the media of 1973.

[FreedomAngel82]

71. Don't forget

John O'Neil. :eyes: What a loser that guy is. Still whoring for Nixon even thirty something years later. Pathetic really.

[smartvoter]

73. Yep. And the media enabled the whole thing. nt

[blm]

74. I agree...I wish he was more media savvy, too. I wish they ALL were

able to see that the media is controlled by the GOP and that newspapers don't drive stories anymore - it's the BROADCAST MEDIA that makes the storyline.

They have to deal with that control or expose it so the American people can see that they are being manipulated by fascists.

[smartvoter]

79. Agreed. nt

[FreedomAngel82]

62. Hear hear

I too was upset with Ohio and how he didn't fight back with the SBVT people. But there are also things we don't know behind the scenes that could keep him from doing so. I remember reading last year (don't remember where though) an article from Kerry's ex-wife Julia and she told how Kerry really wanted to go after the SBVT guys cause they were hurting him inside but for whatever reason the DNC didn't let him. :shrug: I also read someone posted over at BradBlog that one of Kerry's daughter's life was threatned shortly after the election. You have to remember who you're up against as well. I think the only thing we can really do now is concentrate on getting a valid case for why we shouldn't have voting machine's and get to ban them to never be used again. I think we have a good chance to get back the Congress and Senate next year. After that we can do a lot of work and work on getting rid of the machine's intime for 2008 all over the country and make sure every vote really is counted. I still greatly admire and respect Kerry and still have his back and will support him if he ran again in 2008 if we don't get to impeach Bush and his administration and install Kerry/Edwards.

[the_spectator]

77. So this is progress?

You point out that Gore "faded out" after Bush entered the White House, which is true: it took Gore a long time to re-emerge and speak out.

Kerry, it seems, re-emerged to fight much faster after Bush won a second term.

So this is progress, right? Maybe NEXT time, in 2008, we can have a nominee that will NEVER stop fighting the Republicans after he loses! Which possible nominee is most likely to do that? Will any of them PROMISE us before he/she gets the nomination that he will never stop fighting after being defeated in November?

Please forgive me, but it just struck me funny.
:rofl:

[smartvoter]

78. Yes, this is progress.

He dropped the ball in Ohio and surrendered too early. No argument at all. But there is more to Kerry than that moment. He never stopped being critical and fighting. He conceded Ohio too early, but appears to genuinely believe he lost (or at least that it would be impossible to "prove" otherwise).

Interesting that you focused on one aspect of everything posted. We all tend to do this -- get mad at a candidate/politician over one thing or another and get hung up on it while ignoring the rest. You're free to focus on what you'd like, but point of the post was to demonstrate that he is more than the guy who should have fought harder in Ohio. How you weigh it all is up to you, of course.

[rockymountaindem]

87. Amen

[Merope215]

88. I have to admit

I didn't like Kerry very much at first. I was disappointed when he was nominated, and it was hard for me to get very excited about him. But as the election season went on, I liked him more and more. He ran a terrible campaign, but I think he's a good leader and a good man, and I have tremendous respect for him. And you're right, his work in the Senate has really stepped things up for us. He's all right in my book.

[DanCa]

89. I still like Kerry

I think the world of that man. The problem is we ran a delorean in pick up country. I also was wondering if I could have done more myself to get him in office. (Off the top of my head say an extra five or ten dollars more.)
With that said my favorite pet conspiracy theory is that Kerry won the election but his church put so much pressure on him to conceede and go through with thier threats of excummunication that he folded. I have no proof mind you but something was definetly up that night. Thats why he had Edwards announce the waitting period.
Lets just say that I am disappointed for the concession but I am not a fair weather Dem. I will vote for the dem nominee no matter who it is.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

93. Al Gore fought. Kerry didn't. End of story

Kerry rolled while people were still trying to vote for him. He took the expedient, " let me come back later" route. Why? To be accommodating? So he wouldn't be called bad names in the press - sore loserman, etc? He let us down for the sake of his own image and he let the country down.

Just think what might have happened if kerry hadn't conceded so quickly and easily. We might have had an actual important discussion in this country about election transparency and procedures. What was the big f#@$%ing rush to concede? Why? I have more left over respect for Edwards who I understand wanted to duke it out.

[smartvoter]

94. Right on the first two points.

No argument on those points. The post wasn't to dispute or defend his actions on Nov. 3rd. But Kerry is more than the guy who conceded before he should have. There is a lifetime of service there, and he is consistently taking on the administration, even after the election. Everyone is free, of course, to weigh events however they wish. If that one event trumps all others in your book, you certainly have the right to that viewpoint.