We're too nice.

[charlyvi]

Dean wants to draw blood in '06. Great. The only problem is the Dems in power are too nice. We don't want to rock the boat, we want to be civilized. We are all Daschles.

So, the problem is, how do we learn to be FDR savvy again? How to call out these corporatized, ideologized, religionized, lie-through-their-teeth-ized idiots for what they are. Do the people not realize how radical the bushies are? Do they realize how shrub wants to change the American character in his own image? Do the people who represent us (dems) have an ounce of spine or integrity? It's time to get crackin'. We have been handed many gifts--Plamegate, sinking poll numbers, Downing Street memos, Gannon, fake news reports, Duke Cunningham, DeLay, Noe, Coingate. SO WHY AREN'T WE DOING MORE TO CAPITALIZE ON THIS SHIT?

Where are all the brave dems? Kennedy speaks for us, Dean speaks for us, sometimes Kerry and Edwards speak for us. Durbin spoke for us, then apologized.

My heart is aching. I get the feeling America wants us to ROAR--but we are too nice. What to do, what to do.

[Cocoa]

1. if the dems were as unscrupulous as the GOP

or as vicious, I wouldn't be a dem.

[charlyvi]

4. Me neither.

But, why do honest, decent people think the Repubs somehow have a lock on integrity. DEMOCRATS ARE THE PARTY OF INTEGRITY. Why are we so bad at telling the American people this fact?

[zippy890]

12. more and more people are

realizing the repubs cannot be trusted because of all the lies and corruption. I see a lot of disillusionment with bush & co and what they stand for.

[charlyvi]

23. Me too.

But the problem is, does that automatically tranlate into support for dems? I'm not sure.

[MSgt213]

6. How bout just being vicious with the truth. I don't think you can be

unscrupulous just standing up to out right lies. The GOP out fucking right lies and they get away with it because no democrat will call them on it and no democrat will support another who does call them on it.

[charlyvi]

9. That's my point.

I'm a diehard Dem; have been for 53 years. What the hell are we being so nice about? The repubs are destroying our way of life! We don't we fight it? I don't understand.

[FreedomAngel82]

17. I agree

You can be mean with the truth. This niceness b.s. is what got us in the spot where we are. We have to learn from past democrats like FDR, Kennedy etc.

[Cocoa]

13. the dems challenged Rove's smears vigorously

on the floors of the House and Senate

and they challenged a GOP congressman who claimed dems were anti-Christian on the House floor, and got that congressman's vile remarks stricken from the record.

Let's start by being fair to our own.

[MSgt213]

22. What? You call that a figh>. I'm talking about not rolling over on

important issues. And for the record the congressman's words weren't taken back soley because of the democrats standing up to them. That was because many members of that particular congressman's party didn't support the statements he made. If they had they would still be in the record.

[Cocoa]

26. you said the dems aren't calling the GOP on their lies

that's what I was responding to. You didn't say anything about issues.

[MSgt213]

33. Well if we are not talking about issues. Why on earth are we talking?

[Cocoa]

36. you were talking about calling the GOP on their lies

and in general, this discussion is about being "nice," i.e. about temperament as opposed to issues.

[MSgt213]

48. Look. Seriously you need to get a clue. If the Democrats were truly

calling the GOP on their lies, how do you explain only 36 democrats voting against Gonzales for AG? How do you explain Condi becoming SS? How do you explain the war? How do you explain money being continually passed to be spent not on the war but on Halliburton? How do explain the tax cuts? How do you explain democrat silence on Terry Silavo?

I could go on and on where we have definitely not called the GOP on their lies, but what would be the point. You seem to be impressed because the democrats got some words stricken from the record. You think the democrats called the GOP on their lies. Bull fucking shit. Don't tell me this thread is about being nice or not nice or because the democrats stood up to someone calling them names. It's about the fact we are not going to win any elections. Because our leaders do not stand united and appear to be no different then the GOP when it really comes down to it. If we want to be seen as a truly opposition party with clear and distinct differences with the other party then we have to fight about more then being called unchristian and then slapping ourselves on the back for accomplishing absolutely nothing.

The republicans are winning and will continue to win because they stand together on message despite if they agree with the message or not. 15 democrats here 14 not supporting our messages and it seems to me we are not confronting these assholes. Instead we are aiding an abetting them from a position of weakness.

[Cocoa]

50. they called Condi on her lies

and she was confirmed anyway. I saw the hearings, they called her on her lies.

They lost. I don't like that either. But that's not the same as saying they didn't call her on her lies.

But they called Condi on her lies, contrary to what you wrote.

[charlyvi]

51. Yes.

At least Boxer called her on her lies.

[charlyvi]

24. I think I am fair.

Believe me, I've been a faithful Dem for 33 yrs. I just seem to remember our party have so much more ZEST and CONFIDENCE than we seem to have now. We seem to be forgetting our history; our fighting, fiesty, working man origins. We seem to be lost. And it breaks my heart.

[Cocoa]

27. I believe you are fair

what I didn't think was fair, or true, is to say (and you didn't say it) that the dems don't challenge the GOP on their lies. They do, and they've done it a LOT recently.

[charlyvi]

29. True.

But my problem is, they Dems seem to want civility while the repubs want blood. For instance, Dean is trying to run on Repub corruption in '06, but not many dems are going along with it. Why not? The corruption is FACT--DeLay, Cunningham, the entire Ohio repub party! Why aren't the dems standing behind Dean? That's what I mean about "too nice".

[JanMichael]

28. Then we'll be destroyed, period.

There is this thing called the TV, along with an intentionally poor educational system, that makes being "Nice" a curse.

Dems have to be aggressive, if they don't step up then I fear that all will be lost and the fact is that may be a good thing in the long run.

[Cocoa]

30. but not as bad as the GOP

I can't see myself tolerating smearing triple amputee vets' patriotism.

[charlyvi]

31. I agree that the dems should step up.

However, I don't agree that it would be a good thing if they don't. We have a rich heritage--we have GUTS. We just don't have too many dems willing to unleash this. They seem to think that most Americans will come around if they just continue to be adult. Maybe, they're right, I don't know. But I don't think so. We have held power so long we don't know how to be a minority.

[greekspeak]

32. Our dem legislatures can be hard on the pukes without being unscrupulous

The pukes have given dems so much cannon fodder that they could launch their own probe into a comet. Its time they started using using their clout and got out of the Pukes laps. The pukes may think they are Santa Claus, but that doesn't mean our guys and gals have to sit on their laps and ask real nice for leftovers.

[charlyvi]

34. Exactly.

We are the party of FDR, Kennedy, Jefferson. What do we have to be apologetic about? WE ARE THE PARTY OF THE COMMON PEOPLE! Why are we enabling the repubs? Why aren't we strutting? We have plenty to strut about. We seem to afraid, when we have nothing to lose.

[Cocoa]

37. they can't hold hearings

they can hold informal hearings, and they are doing so, such as Byron Dorgan's regular ones on Halliburton corruption, and such as Conyers's forum on DSM.

But they can't hold full hearings, with subpoena power, since they are in the minority.

[charlyvi]

39. Wow, Cocoa.

It hurts to hear that we are the minority. Even though it's been the case since 2004, it still hurts. How can America be so blind?

[Cocoa]

46. if the dems were in the majority

as they should be, I think we could have been in impeachment proceedings by now, specifically for the Niger uranium lie. The President citing forged documents in his State of the Union address, leading the country into war? Impeachable, easily.

[charlyvi]

52. Yep.

And then, maybe no Iraqi war. Needless deaths avoided.

[sniffa]

2. weLL

the chaLLengers have nothing, so they can be mean.

who's up for re-eLection that's in troubLe? (seriousLy - i don't know if anyone is)

[charlyvi]

7. Hi Sniffa.

Even if no challengers are in trouble, the fact is that repubs control the federal government. How did this happen? Why are we in a minority when WE know that the repubs a liars, thieves and opportunists. Somehow, we are not getting the message out.

[MSgt213]

3. I agree with you. Our leaders can't stick together and support each other

for shit. Durbin should have never apologized. But guess what no Ann Coulters or Rush Limbaughs of the left were out in force defending him. He couldn't even get Jon Stewart's support on his statements.

[charlyvi]

14. I know.

And the thing that GALLs me is our side doesn't have to lie, exagerrate, and demonize the way their side does. We have the facts to support us; yet no one, with the exception of Kennedy and Dean, will back up the facts! My god! What else do they need?

[Eric J in MN]

5. House Democrats don't want to point out the Republican

corruption because they don't want to be scrutizined.

http://www.workingforchange.com/blog/index.cfm?mode=entry&entry=E8F1FD88-97F2-133D-9E60AA747D1BD8C3

[charlyvi]

15. Then we're doomed.

Corruption is corruption whether it's followed by an R or a D.

[LiberalEsto]

8. Someone from the Maryland Dem party called today

and asked if I'd be a poll worker again.

I said sure, as long as I get to wear brass knuckles.

We've got to be ready to rumble!

[BigBearJohn]

10. You can be tough, roar and be effective. No one suggested unscrupulous.

[charlyvi]

18. Then why are the only ones roaring

not supported by the party. I read an article saying that most Dems aren't supporting Dean when he tries to point our Repub corruption (Ney, Cunningham, DeLay, etc.) If we can't back up our own, we're doomed.

[BigBearJohn]

21. I am AGREEING with you. I was defending your standpoint.

[charlyvi]

25. I know. Sorry if I sounded snippy.

I'm just upset about this.

:hi:

[G_j]

11. I don't know about "nice"

Conyers seems like one of the nicest people you could meet, he does have courage, conviction and integrity though.

[charlyvi]

19. True.

I should have mentioned Conyers along with Dean and Kennedy.

[applegrove]

16. We will fight like the allies did in WWII. With force but as adults. With

compassion. For compassion. We will bring out the best in each other. And we will show the neocons to be the adolescents they are!

[charlyvi]

20. I hope so.

But so far, it seems as though we are catering to the BIG BAD repubs.

[CrispyQ]

35. Charlvi, my heart is aching too.

Most of the Dems I know -- including the one who got me off MY butt last year after years of non-activity/non-awareness -- aren't interested in politics anymore. Arghh!!!!!


You are right. Whether they know it or not, America (& the world) wants to hear the progressives ROAR. We are the party of COMMUNITY values, not ME values; we are the party of ALL family values, not just MY family values. We are the party that knows that the SUM OF THE PARTS IS MORE THAN THE INDIVIDUALS*.

We need to communicate that to the masses.

How? How do we communicate that to the masses?


* on edit: The WHOLE is GREATER than the SUM of the PARTS.

[charlyvi]

38. I don't know, CrispyQGirl.

I've thought about it and thought about it. If all we've done--Social Security, Workman's Comp, minimum wage, family leave, 40 hour work week, OSHA, New Deal, War on Poverty, etc.--haven't convinced people, I don't know what will. Maybe Americans have come to accept these programs to the point that they think they require no maintenance, no husbandry. That they will be there forever. How do we convince them that these American virtues require upkeep--they require Democratic supervision, not repub destruction?

[gollygee]

40. Democratic leaders need to be tough and loud and say

what needs to be said tough and loudy and with fire and gusto! And over and over and over again!

Remember when Clinton was in office and running for office? You could hardly turn on the TV without seeing Stephanopolous or Carville or Meyers or someone else EVERYWHERE going after the garbage that was being put out. They went to the media, they didn't wait for the lazy media folks to come to them. And they didn't pull any punches either. We need that kind of thing again.

[charlyvi]

42. Yes we do.

We need to stand up proud and vocal. Every dem needs to say over and over again--THEY ARE CORRUPT, LET ME COUNT THE WAYS. Dems are the party of family, workplace fairness, privacy, individuality, AMERICAN IDEALS! Over and over again.

[Dr Fate]

41. They refused to go on TV and drum up DSM talking points too.

Scairdy cats.

[charlyvi]

45. Dems need a spine transplant.

They ought to follow Kennedy's and Dean's lead. Really.

[Dr Fate]

49. Dean never mentioned the DSM during his various TV appearances.

At least not in the ones I watched. Am I wrong?

I know Kennedy said somthing about it on a website or somthing- did he talk about it the DSM on TV?

[charlyvi]

53. I don't know if he specifically mentioned DSM.

I do know that he is trying to pound Repubs on corruption. And most dems aren't going along with it.

[ScamUSA.Com]

43. I want every politican with a D or I next to their name to speak loudly

every day

[charlyvi]

44. Loudly and Proudly.

WE ARE THE PARTY OF PROMISE, PROGRESS AND INDIVIDUAL PRIVACY!

[Meldread]

47. I agree.

The Dems are like a dog with no teeth. All they do is bark but everyone laughs at them because they know they can't back that bark up with a bite.

They need talking points. They need to engage in harsh criticism of the Administration. They need to be brutal and relentless and they need to do this very publicly. That's exactly what the Republicans do.

EDIT-
They need to treat this like its election time. It isn't enough to condemn something from the senate or house floor; 90% of Americans will never hear about it or see it therefore it is pointless. People have to actually KNOW what is going on before they start caring about it, and the democrats need to learn to frame things in a way that the average Joe can relate to.