PREDICTION: Scooter Libby is the person who called up Cooper

[Walt Starr]

Libby is falling on his sword to protect the higher ups. Rove is going to go down soon, too. I predict that Fitzgerald already has enough to indict both Libby and Rove.

Miller is going to prison in order to protect Cheney.

Fitzgerald will get everybody involved and will bring criminal charges against Miller. She doesn't know it yet, but she's going to end up spending a lot more than four months in prison.

Bookmark this thread. I think I've got the right read on all of this.

[lala_rawraw]

1. I see it a bit differently...

Rove will be pardoned by moron king. Cheney is having heart problems because the "fire" is lighting a bit too close to home... where the fixing took place.

Miller is a paid shill and should be in prison. Chalabi is her source for all of her bs reporting on WMD.

[Walt Starr]

3. I'm thinking Novak sang like a canary

and his sources were Rove and Libby.

Fitzgerald is only looking at how many counts to indict for and how many other people are involved. Cooper confirms another count on Libby and possibly another on Rove.

Other journalists have also testified.

It's all down to the counts and the charges. I figure obstruction will be amongst the charges. Rove and Libby will both go down. Cheney may be named as an unindicted co-conspirator.

[berni_mccoy]

24. Walt, I do believe

You have this one figured out...

Time will tell for sure...

[LiberallyInclined]

15. NO WAY * pardons rove-

a war-time traitor? no way anybody would sit still for that.

[GiovanniC]

21. I Think You Misunderestimate People

What's that? A shark attacked a pretty white missing runaway bride who inappropriately touched little boys while they were in persistent vegetative states?

[Swamp Rat]

29. LOL!

:D

[KatieBloom]

2. Good post, I agree with you!

[spooked]

4. Will all of this fizzle in the MSM if it's Scooter's name that comes out?

What's your take on that? What will happen next?

[Walt Starr]

5. See post three

Rove is going down, too. Libby may only face on more charge that Karl.

[proud patriot]

6. bookmarked

:popcorn:

[jojo54]

7. I'm missing a link here

Why would Miller want to protect Dickless? Plz fill me in. Thx.

[Walt Starr]

9. Go back to her history in the leadup to war

She used Chalabi as her source, a source Cheney himself used during the drumbeat for war.

This goes much deeper than just a CIA agent being outted. This goes to the forged Niger yellowcake docs, the DSM, the whole ball of wax, and Miller knows it all.

Miller had one source and one source only on the Plame affair, and opening up about how that source fed her the info opens up a helluva lot more than Plame. Her source was Cheney.

[jojo54]

16. Holy crap! This is deep.

So she's not going to sing, no matter what. If they go down, she goes down. Damn!

[Pithy Cherub]

22. And IF Judy goes, THEy go! Mutually assured self-destruction!

The very premise that undergirded the Cold War. What will break first-indictments or her will! Judy also screwed with the CIA - beyond Plame - so who knows when they start unloading...

Truly, we have our own 24/7 West Wing TV show now only available on the internet(s)...
:popcorn:

[paparush]

8. Miller is Taking One for the Team so that...

<tinfoilhat>
She doesn't end up stuffed in a barrel, the victim of an apparent suicide.
</tinfoilhat>

Speaking of which, we should all chip in and buy Cooper some body armor.

[Walt Starr]

10. The only person his direct testimony will indict is Libby, count on it.

He has enough indirect information to corroborate other testimny and indict Rove.

[thebigidea]

14. as if Cooper were ever a friend of the left.

surely his good buddies at the White House will help him!

[FreedomAngel82]

11. Who does Libby answer too?

[Walt Starr]

12. Cheney n/t

[Kool Kitty]

13. Bless you, Walt Starr.

This is what I was thinking this afternoon, while I was listening to the coverage. (I left my husband a note to this effect before I went to work.) What struck me was Rove's attorney's statement that he didn't knowingly "out" Ms. Plame. Someone higher up did-and I say that someone is Scooter Libby. And he got his info from Cheney. (Where is he, by the way?) She went to jail to protect Libby and Cheney, NOT Rove.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that came to this conclusion. I was thinking that I was crazy. I'm sure Rove is involved, but he's not the main source.

[DURHAM D]

17. So, I have a few questions ? Did Libby have clearance that

would allow him to be briefed on Valerie Plame's status? I assume that Karl did not. If Libby had such clearance and revealed secret information to Karl or any member of the press can he be charged with treason? If treason charges are brought who/what entity brings them.

If Cheney gave testimony to Fitzgerald and perjured himself does the House have to bring charges against him? Can federal justice department bring charges against him for perjury? What about treason - how is a VP tried?

For that matter, what about the President on charges of treason ? Does he have to be impeached by the House or can some other entity bring charges of treason?

Thanks for response in advance.

[Scout1071]

18. But why the Air Force One call subpoena?

:shrug:

[iconoclastic cat]

19. Damn, Walt. I hope you're right.

BTW, what do you think of this: I've read around various sites (Kos, Americablog, etc.) that Judith Miller might've been CIA. Someone said something about the fact that she started giving orders to a group of soldiers when she was embedded in Iraq. I wish I had links to post off the top of my head, but I don't.

[Zen Democrat]

31. Here's your link:

Embedded Reporter's Role In Army Unit's Actions Questioned by Military

By Howard Kurtz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, June 25, 2003; Page C01

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A28385-2003Jun24¬Found=true

[Zen Democrat]

33. And Judith Miller's connection to the David Kelly suicide:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/7/3/17138/30618

....So if Miller did not file a story but was in touch with a "government official," presumably in the White House, when the Plame story was being leaked, just what was her role? Did she aid and abet the White House in getting this story into print? One thing we know for certain is that Karl Rove told MSNBC's Chris Matthews immediately after Robert Novak broke the Plame story that Valerie Plame was "fair game." While that conversation, revealed by Matthews and never denied by Rove, does not prove Rove was involved in the leak, it certainly proves he was in the loop.

All of this brings to mind another story that Judith Miller may have played a larger role in than her readers realize. You may recall the story of David Kelly, the British scientist and expert in WMD, who committed suicide in July 2003 while being investigated as the possible source for a BBC story that suggested (of all things) that the Blair government had doctored the intelligence about Saddam's WMD programs.

---snip---

I find Miller's behavior in the Kelly story rather odd, to say the least. Unlike the Plame story, Miller did ultimately write about Kelly, but she camouflaged her own involvement and left much of what she knew out of the piece. I can't pretend to know what role Miller played in the Plame saga, but I am now wondering whether she is being looked at as a possible accessory, rather than as a journalist who is protecting her sources. If that is the case, her efforts to rally the journalistic community to her aid represent a cynical charade.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Walt I will add the possibiilty of terason

you do not need two witneses for the same act except for treason

[Sparkly]

23. Hmmm....

I agree Miller is protecting someone besides Rove. Could be Libby, could be Cheney, could be Card, who knows.

I don't agree that Miller will face criminal charges; and frankly, I remain skeptical of Fitzgerald himself. Unless he's suddenly grown beyond BushCo, I think he may indict whoever the WH decides needs to take the fall -- and typically, they start as low as possible and go up from there, stopping wherever possible.

Rove's plea is the usual "OOPS" -- he didn't KNOW what was going on; he didn't KNOW Plame was more than an "analyst." She just "worked for the CIA"-- you know, typing and stuff.

They will play that as far as they can. Hell, that's what got Reagan and Poppy off the hook for Iran-Contra.

They will find somebody low (and preferably within the CIA, but Novak already mentioned two White House sources -- I suppose they could claim HE "didn't know?").

Above all, they'll make sure Chimp & Cheney "didn't know."

The great irony in my mind is how frequently they use "didn't know" or "couldn't do anything" to excuse this regime from all sorts of things, from 9/11 to WMD to Abu Ghraib to this. "Chimpy didn't KNOW about terrorists! Chimpy couldn't HELP it that they shipped him off to Nebraska! Chimpy had no CLUE about Abu Ghraib! Chimpy has no IDEA who leaked the identity of a CIA operative!"

Tell me the Leader of the Free World, even a stupid monkey like this one, can't call a handful of people on the carpet and say, "Get to the bottom of this immediately" and make it happen -- if he wanted to. Of COURSE he could. "Internal investigation," my ASS. The same idiots who make Clinton responsible for EVERYthing hold the Chimp (& Co.) responsible for NOTHING.

So in my view, they'll get the lowest possible insider to take the rap, and the sheeple will pretend the rest are innocent as lambs.

[Caretha]

26. There's a bigger picture here

You said:

I don't agree that Miller will face criminal charges; and frankly, I remain skeptical of Fitzgerald himself. Unless he's suddenly grown beyond BushCo, I think he may indict whoever the WH decides needs to take the fall -- and typically, they start as low as possible and go up from there, stopping wherever possible

There's a grand jury that is sitting. They are the ones basically who lead the investigation, and if they feel they have evidence of a crime the prosecuter has to proceed with the indictments based on the grand juries findings.

[Sparkly]

27. Yes, but it's Fitzgerald bringing the evidence.

As I understand it, the investigation involves questioning that may or may not be presented to the grand jury -- am I wrong?

[Caretha]

37. There's some great websites

about grand juries and rules/laws pertaining to them. Easy google search will take you to them and answer alot of your questions.

As I understand it no information is withheld from them. They are to look at everything and determine if any laws have been broken or crimes committed.

[Jane Austin]

32. Just curious . . .

You said: and frankly, I remain skeptical of Fitzgerald himself. Unless he's suddenly grown beyond BushCo, I think he may indict whoever the WH decides needs to take the fall -- and typically, they start as low as possible and go up from there, stopping wherever possible.

***

Do you know something about his behavior in past cases that would lead you to think he's not independent of the White House?

I know little about him, so I'm curious about what underpins your reasoning.

Thanks.

[man4allcats]

25. For the record though, it really doesn't matter whether it was

Libby, Rove, Cheney or someone else in the executive branch. According to the Constitution Society

<snip>
An official such as the president does not need to take a special oath to become subject to the penalties of perjury. (my emphasis) He took an oath, by Art. II Sec. 1 Cl. 8, to "faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States" and to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States" to the best of his ability. While he holds that office, he is always under oath, and lying at any time constitutes perjury (my emphasis) if it is not justified for national security.

<snip>
It should be noted, however, that when an offense against a statute is also a "high crime or misdemeanor", it may be, and usually is, referred to by a different name, when considered as such. Thus, an offense like "obstruction of justice" or "subornation of perjury" may become "abuse of authority" when done by an official bound by oath. As such it would be grounds for impeachment and removal from office, (my emphasis) but would be punishable by its statutory name once the official is out of office.

<snip>
An executive official is ultimately responsible for any failures of his subordinates and for their violations of the oath he and they took, (my emphasis) which means violations of the Constitution and the rights of persons. It is not necessary to be able to prove that such failures or violations occurred at his instigation or with his knowledge, to be able, in Starr's words, to "lay them at the feet" of the president. It is sufficient to show, on the preponderance of evidence, that the president was aware of misconduct on the part of his subordinates, or should have been, and failed to do all he could to remedy the misconduct, including termination and prosecution of the subordinates and compensation for the victims or their heirs. The president's subordinates include everyone in the executive branch, (my emphasis) and their agents and contractors. It is not limited to those over whom he has direct supervision. He is not protected by "plausible deniability". He is legally responsible for everything that everyone in the executive branch is doing. (my emphasis)

I say again, Impeach Bush!

[enigmatic]

28. If Rove gets indicted, it's all over

That'll prove to me that this will be taken to it's logical (and rightful) conclusion. If it's just Scooter Libby, then it's business as usual, I think.

Rove, as always, is the key.

[Swamp Rat]

30. A handy Bush&Co Admin map for this thread:

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. thanks

[satya]

34. Libby was the admin source (Time Oct 04);there are also 2 top WH officials

involved. Libby already gave Cooper permission to talk; the call today must have come from one of the WH officials?

<emphasis mine>

http://tinyurl.com/56pew

Friday, Oct. 15, 2004
Rove Testifies in Wilson Leak
The president's advisor appears before a federal grand jury
By Viveca Novak

<snip>

U.S. District Judge Thomas Hogan found Cooper in contempt of court on Wednesday, for the second time, for refusing to testify. (Cooper’s first contempt citation was rescinded when he gave limited information to prosecutors after a source, Lewis I. “Scooter” Libby, chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney, authorized him and several other journalists to discuss their confidential conversations.) Miller was found in contempt last week. She and Cooper, citing the need for journalists to be able to protect their sources, are appealing the rulings jointly, but no decision is expected from the appeals court until mid-to-late November. They could each face up to 18 months in jail if they lose their appeal.

Novak’s status continues to be a mystery; neither he nor his lawyer, Jim Hamilton, will talk about their contacts with prosecutors. Lawyers for other witnesses in the case have concluded that Novak is cooperating, since he has not been held in contempt. But even if Novak is cooperating and has revealed his sources, these lawyers say, Fitzgerald would want to talk to other journalists to strengthen any case he might bring. And the prosecutor may be seeking to substantiate a Sept. 2003 Washington Post story, which quoted an administration source saying that two top White House officials disclosed Plame's identity to at least six Washington journalists in retribution for Wilson's comments. The leak was "meant purely and simply for revenge," the official said. Fitzgerald might want to learn if those two officials were the same ones who talked to Novak. Each instance of disclosure of Plame's identity would be a separate crime.

[brettdale]

36. kick

kick

[spooked]

38. What about this? Other source besides Libby came from VP's OFFICE

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/jspecial100203.html

MSNBC'S Buchanan & Press scored a major scoop on Wednesday, all but unmasking the high government official who "outed" a CIA operative via a July 14 column by Robert Novak. Larry Johnson, a former CIA analyst who worked with Valerie Plame, the reported agent, all but identified "Scooter" Libby as the government official who outed her – and at least one other in the Vice President's office.

WHO IS THIS OTHER SOURCE IN THE VICE PRSIDENT'S OFFICE??? ANY IDEAS?