DebateThread #4

[kaitykaity]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=404986
Thread #3

(Will add #2 & 1 later)
Please continue
Thread 1
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=404451

Thread 2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=404706

"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather

[ronzo]

1. Edwards' appeal for focus...

I like it.

[Kahuna]

8. Edwards is a class act.

[caledesi]

19. Edwards is a class act!

[ClintonTyree]

9. I've liked Edwards today.............

sharp answers, calm, collected. Good performance.

[janekat]

18. He's really improved.... n/t

[AP]

25. He has been like that from beginning. You're just noticing...

...for the first time.

[tjdee]

40. This is what I like about Edwards.

He's been steady, on the track, moving along, goal in sight.

I think he's going to look *very* good in the days to come.

[AP]

55. He has been the most consistent in every respect (message, money, image

control...) throughout. He hasn't made any missteps and he has remarkably and subtley responded to every criticism and spin (and this goes back to his 98 run).

[tjdee]

I hope it pays off for him.

I agree, and I appreciate that more and more as the other candidates misstep and make snide comments about each other, and as 'revelations' emerge.

The party is really fortunate to have him, and I hope at the end of the day he's not going back to NC--although it would probably be a much more relaxing life for him.

[blm]

51. True...but, he has still improved on that.

He's even better now.

[kayleybeth]

57. Edwards is impressive

The more I see of him, the more I like him.

[realFedUp]

2. Closing speeches?

Dick up.

[sfecap]

3. Gee...according to Gep,

He's tried to save the world...he's all things to all people!

Remember the Rose garden.

[caledesi]

28. Gep sounded like a repug..."raw sewage..." - "mass graves"

He gassed his own people!
The raping of young girls!
The torture chambers!
Are you scared AND paranoid yet?

[blm]

4. Policy differences SHOULD be debated.

It's not an attack if you're talking policy.

Gephardt said Dean stood with Gingrich on the GOP plan, probably because Dean called him "Bushlite" maybe?

[realFedUp]

13. I think there must have been some confusion there...

I'm confused.

[Cha]

23. gep was in the rose garden being bush lite...remember?

[blm]

38. There's nuclear waste going to Yucca Mt... remember?

Bush hides behind state's rights on controversial issues...remember?

[Cha]

53. the rose garden ....remember? Thousands of People dying

in Iraq, remember?

[blm]

70. How many people live in Nevada?

btw...Do the rules state that only Dean gets to pick and choose what issues one can side with Bush? Because if you compared honestly, Dean's record aligns more with Bush than any other candidate. And on Israel he is "Bush-heavy" because he promised Sharon MORE money for defense than Bush did, while keeping Palestine demilitarized.

[Cha]

95. The signing off on the invasion of kerry, gep, and edwards is the

defining issue for me.. I know what Dean's stances are and I can live with them...what I won't tolerate is anyone who gave the bushwa the power to go blow up Iraq...

I wasn't saying anything about this but your Constant Derisive slams on Dean have left me no choice..

[MercutioATC]

79. Woohoo! Yucca Mountain! $5 for Dean!

Explanation:

http://democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=9385

A rebuttal to BLM's assertions:

http://democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=9385

[AWD]

88. We've GOTTA get a new record player

Our old blm model keeps skipping and repeating the same lyrics.

[blm]

99. and yet the Deanut Gallery is given yet another pass

on their redundancies.

If you all stopped with your double standards for the candidates, then I would stop pointing it out.

I hope you enjoy your support from the Ohio firefighters, AWD.

[Cha]

110. You are so Disrespectful!

[AWD]

115. The broken record...

....has nothing else to do but attack.

I will earn my own endorsements, not piggyback them off others.

[blm]

122. You reap what you sow.

I got treated like crap for daring to notice Dean was a centrist and unfairly attacked the other candidates back in January. Many here applauded Dean's attacks on GOOD longtime liberal leaning Democrats, and it was SICKENING.

Now we have a whole pack here saying how wonderful that Dean is a centrist and WHINING that Dean gets scrutinized by the other canndidates and their supporters.

[MercutioATC]

125. Double standards? Like Kerry's "yea" vote on the IWR when he REALLY meant

"no"?

Don't you think it's just a little hypocritical to accuse Dean of not performing due diligence on a matter that may or may not be within his scope of responsibility when Kerry voted for a resolution that most assuredly WAS within his scope of responsibility and which he said he was "mislead" about?

C'mon. You're really going to lecture anybody about double standards?

[JohnKleeb]

50. that doesnt make him bushite

No one in this race is truly bushite not even Lieberman, now if Ralph Hall or Zell Miller was running we could talk. I still prefer a guy who wasnt in the rose garden as my candiate.

[Cha]

54. yes it does.

[JohnKleeb]

102. come on guys thats real unfair

Hell I should be doing it but I dont, these guys records arent perfect and I dont support them but I think its real unfair to judge them forever for that. Not the thing to do although this war was fucking wrong.

[Cha]

106. It not "unfair"....it's calling like it is! Sorry you cannot See that

with your own eyes.

[JohnKleeb]

112. I cant see that

I cant see that summeralizing Kerry up because of one vote and ignoring the good he has done, I think my eyes are fine. I aint trying to get you to support the guy for pres but you gotta see my point that ignoring the good he has done and calling him bushite is wrong. Guys what he did was FUCKED UP I agree completely now tell me why I am wrong for trying to be fair. I dont wanna be harsh on you guys but youre being judgemental, and no I am not being a jerk I think you guys need to realize on a lot of issues Kerry is good. Theres many reasons I support Kucinich. I agree though the best candiate would be one who opposed the war though.

[Cha]

114. Well it didn't mean as much to you as it did to me and millions

of others than! The invasion was a defining issue for me.

I'm not "wiping out" out all the other stuff that they did..they just never turned me on politcally anyway.

[blm]

123. But the Biden-Lugar version of the invasion turned you on?

.

[JohnKleeb]

124. well actually I feel the same however

Theres a part of me that looks beyond Kerry's war vote and realizes he is a good guy with good views. http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=S0421103
Hes not my candiate while I do think he was wrong to vote IWR, he has a solid record. I dont understand why this doesnt make sense to you that Kerry well he fucked up big with IWR has some worthly qualities. Well I tried looks like my efforts were futile. I am not asking you to say that Kerry politically turns you on, but the way people treat this vote and ignore maybe they arent delibartly but it smells that way to me Kerry's other than that good record. Sure Kerry aint the candiate of my dream's but I can acknowledge he has good points on issues and I wouldnt have a hard time supporting him if hes the nominee. I dont get this train of though maybe I am ignorant but I think acting like Kerry is a bushite is absurd. Try to see where I am going with this, its simple really, I am not saying you should bolt Dean and support Kerry, I am however saying that Kerry aint a bushite nor is he a particularly bad candiate on the issues. It didnt matter to me you say, well I marched on DC last October with the greatest pride and spoke out against the war in school. I didnt do what some people did but I did my share and I am proud of myself for it.

[Pastiche423]

67. O-kay

What do you call someone that kissed whistle ass' ass, giving him a blank check to slaughter thousands of human beings?

[AWD]

89. Well....

What do you call someone that kissed whistle ass' ass, giving him a blank check to slaughter thousands of human beings?

I either call him Congressman Gephardt or Senator Kerry, depending on which chamber I'm in.

[JohnKleeb]

108. I agree with you guys 10000000000% that the IWR was wrong

but I am just saying bushite aint the word for it, WRONG is the word. Guys gotta understand, I dont like to have to do this but I think the attacks on Kerry an otherwise distungished senator with a good record and the others are absurd. I bet you guys would be up in arms if someone called your guy bushite. I dont like playing this role but I guess its something I got from my grandfather, the arbritator or whatever role. I will show you what I consider bushite.

Ironically though Ralph Hall supported the party good lol by his standards this year. Guys I support Kucinich for one of the same reasons you support Dean his opposition to this war and his willingness to stand up. Kucinich fits my views better and I really like him too. I dont like to play referee but I would be willing to support the eventual dem nominee if he voted for IWR I would be iffy although for some more than others, we cant ignore the fact that other than IWR Kerry is a good senator and Gephardt is a solid democrat and a good friend of labor. Just my opinion.

[JohnKleeb]

105. Someone I am not supporting in the primary

I am trying to be fair honestly guys, look its not like I am saying IWR was right in fact it was a horrible thing. I just dont think it is right to judge a man who otherwise isnt your Bush collebartor on the issues. I am trying to be fair damnit, you guys gotta understand, bushite isnt the word for it, its WRONG. Isnt it ironic that I am playing this role I should be more hardline on this than you all being that I am from what I was told an out of touch Kucinich supporter none of you told me that lol. Listen though Bush fucked up the nation other than the war, ok thats why I as a big opponent of the war support Kucinich and a supporter of Economic liberalism.

[realFedUp]

5. Clark wants open borders....

he will have to detail what he means...kind of
speaking in general terms right now...no pun
intended.

[populistmom]

14. Exactly, too vague. nt

[A-Schwarzenegger]

24. ClarK: "We can move this whole mankind forward."

Is that more not vague for you enough?

[GBD4]

6. Lieberman

What's the question?

[Cush]

7. Um, Joe

wakey wakey?

[blessedleader]

10. hahahaha

ouch!

[caledesi]

43. Joe who?

Oh yeah, the guy who ran for VP and NEVER once mentioned Clinton, now suddenly he mentions Clinton as often as possible.

[Malikshah]

11. Gep v Clark v Lieberman on Trade

Gephardt-- free trade-- attacks on others-- Gephardt "I tried to, but I'll try it when I'm president" (I'm not holding my breath)

Clark-- Open trade-- reciprocal trade agreements-- they have to open their markets to us-- no dumping of goods-- like to see them have better standards...

Lieberman--- Made in the US and sold abroad. Trade is all about breaking down barriers abroad---make them here.

Brings up Grasso--like GWB--greed special interests....Halliburton no-bids etc.

[Cush]

16. and remember

he said Plucked, not f*cked

[tjdee]

12. Thanks everybody,

I have to catch the replay at 9, but I'm glad you're cluing us in.

[sfecap]

15. Lieberman: What day is it? Where am I?

eom

[Kahuna]

17. Good quip by Lieberman.. the foxes are guarding the foxes..

and the hens are getting plucked....I want to emphasize I said, "plucked." Got a laugh.

[realFedUp]

20. I really do like Kucinich's ideas

I just wish they were coming out of
more mouths besides his and Al's.

[ronzo]

30. DK has the right idea on trade, I think.

he may be a little extreme, but an overhaul of several trade agreements is in order.

[populistmom]

32. But it's good they're there

Without Kucinich, Sharpton, and Braun, the center would be a lot more to the right in this group.
Kucinich is awesome.

[Myra]

113. "But it's good they're there"

I agree!
I'm so glad Sharpton and Braun were there.

Especially Sharpton, who I thought was absolutely
fantastic. And I never thought I'd live to say that.
He was smart and clever, not at all robotic, and very
hard hitting. Damn but he surprised me.

I also thought Dean was great; Clark was good but
not as good as I'd hoped (and way to vague on some
things, and strayed from the question sometimes,
and I don't like what I heard of his nascient
health care policy so far; we do need single payer);
Edwards was totally excellent, and Kuchinich was
kick ass.

Man I did love Sharpton's line about it being better
to be a new Democrat than a Dem who'se acted like a
Repug for years. I hope he was lookin' right at Holy
Joe when he said it.

[jumptheshadow]

34. I do, too

Kucinich is brilliant. I know some folks who work with him on international issues. I feel blessed that they're part of my working life.

I've gotta be pragmatic, though, the next election is too, too critical.

[GBD4]

21. Sharpton

"I'm here because of a bad trade policy"

[Orangepeel]

22. Thread three was locked before I got to make my joke!

Graham's statement that bush is literally in bed with pharmaceutical companies is true. Why? Because Laura is so full of prozac she IS a pharamceutical company.

:-)

[salin]

27. Good one!

n/t

[A-Schwarzenegger]

33. LOF!

[blm]

41. Bwahahaha.....

good one.

[Renew Deal]

26. Flip floppin Howard.

They said it, not me.

[Kahuna]

35. I hope Clark is paying careful attention to CMB...

I keep saying, he should hire her as his domestic policy advisor. She's a liberal who comes across as a moderate.

[Malikshah]

37. Uh...

THey said perceived--- in other words--- ad hominem attacks on a competitor... based upon skewed views...Sorry it's old news and tiresome at that. :)

[salin]

39. they are starting to ask these questions (and putting him on the spot)

are they trying to get him to erupt? Trying to set up the bait? Hey - that would boost ratings for the evening replay ... all the news reports would refer to the sparks.. get folks to tune into MSNBC at night?

Just like earlier they were asking a lot of questions of Clark... trying to get him to flounder? Create a 'news story' around it? Get the 'story' into the news cycle... so folks tune into MSNBC at night?

Just sort of struck me...

Overall I think the candidates are doing very well.

[Malikshah]

I agree

The candidates aren't playing the game the way Borgin, Insana, WIlliams want.

When will the media ask the questions alone and not try to make the news??? Never, of course.

[realFedUp]

45. Which is kinda like saying Gore reinvented himself

...more of a conservative commment IMO.

[Jim Sagle]

62. Whoever said it, nobody cared.

[Malikshah]

29. Gloria Borgin--an equal opportunity hater

Dean again having to restate his case in light of attempts to bait him to attack.

Too bad the candidates can't actually look at their competitor's views.

CMB-- Parternship for prosperity.

[Cha]

49. I believe this is all good for Dean! Let them misrepresent his

views...this is all Great practice for Dean ..and it's really good to know exactly what he's dealing with.

[realFedUp]

31. Dean says he has to keep restating his positions

because the other candidates keep saying things
that aren't true about him.

Dean believes there should be international labor
standards.

[goodhue]

44. international labor standards

http://www.ilo.org/public/english/standards/norm/

[VolcanoJen]

46. Dean has really impressed me today.

He really set the tone for not attacking those on the stage, despite being the one guy they keep baiting into doing so.

He's all class, that doctor! I'm impressed.

:-)
Jennifer

[Julien Sorel]

59. Frontrunners always want a civil environment.

He sang a different tune when he was a nobody; if his standing slips in relation to one of the other candidates, I have no doubt he'll suddenly find himself 'shocked' by some of that person's stands and pronouncements. Such is the hypocrisy of politics.

[tjdee]

68. Got to wait until tomorrow, with Dean.

On TV, he's always the nice guy.

And sometimes you hear something different when he's on the trail.

[sfecap]

96. You won't believe this of course, but...

I have spent some time with Gov. Dean. I've heard him talk in a private setting. When asked a question in which he could "attack" an opponent, he has always demurred. Instead he focuses on what he has to offer. (In fact, he stated to me that he liked Dick Gephart and has known him for years.)

Gov. Dean is in fact a very classy guy.

Of course the above doesn't apply to his comments on the chimp...

[Cha]

109. I know! All that.. "Dean is not nice" was just started by people who

have an agenda against Dean..It's easy to set somebody up...

I feel Dean can overcome all these attacks! I wish I could hug him right now!

[Cha]

81. Dean just told the truth!

Dean tells it like it is...but, of course, that's too unpleasant for some people .. to hear from someone who has that quality.

[Cha]

60. That's why I am so passionate about the Dean Campaign because

it is All Class...all the way! Thanks for your observation!

I'm sitting here ..cableless of my own desire. :-)

[GBD4]

36. Graham

The Dem Party is a big tent, and labor is an important part of that tent

how is America going to win in the trade playing field? let's make sure we have a great, well-trained workforce and invest in our workers

[lanlady]

42. I love Carol M-B

Smart, classy, well-spoken.

I agree with some of the other posters that all of them are doing great.

[ronzo]

52. I'm with...

I love her presentation. I'd vote for her!

[Renew Deal]

47. Edwards: Ban Scabs

during strikes.

[AP]

63. This guy is less afraid than anyone except Kucinich to say things

which directly threaten easy profits for big corporations through rip offs of the middle and working class.

Who does he think he is?

[kayleybeth]

48. I'm impressed with all

and so proud to have this great field of candidates.

[Cush]

56. Kerry mentions Halliburton

If Halliburton built bridges & schools is the US, maybe Bush would invest in them

[blm]

77. Great comment on Halliburton.

.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

120. Originally mentioned by Graham.

[sfecap]

58. As a union member, Edwards continues to impress me....

...Gephart is a putz.

[bearfartinthewoods]

61. DK has improved tremendously

i'm very impressed with him today.

[realFedUp]

64. I agree

These debates have been good practice.

[JohnKleeb]

66. I missed it becaue I wanted to be here but I couldnt listen to it either

Maybe he will get a boost in the polls, I hope so. He sure has earned it.

[Malikshah]

65. Grasso--- call for resignation-- why no call for

Dean: Legal but inappropriate. Same message
Gephardt: Should have resigned. Same message
CMB: Small business. Same message

Excesses excesses

[sfecap]

69. Edwards will be President of this country.

Not this time around, but he will someday be President. This guy is good. I think he needs to "make his bones", and he'll be in that office someday.

[MuseRider]

116. I think you may

be right. I am not his supporter but he is a class act.

[Pepperbelly]

71. Wesley took Borger to school on corporate responsibility ....

Not enough detail, Borger sneered.

Okay, sez Wesley. Rat-a-tat-tat! And the big thing that needs to be done is what I said to begin with.

Ahhhh-haaaaaa, sez Nelson Muntz.

[kayleybeth]

75. He handled that very well, I thought

eom

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

121. The rat-a-tat-tat was Sarbannes/Oxley.

He made his position absolutely clear on that.

[GBD4]

72. Lieberman

first debate in a while in which I've not been booed

[MissB]

Was that a background of boos for Joe?

??

[cosmicdot]

73. ding - sorry, your time is up

let's get some everyday people asking questions in lieu of media-types

Lieberman said he hasn't been boo'd

booooooo!

[proud patriot]

74. Dang my server kicked me off

Just got back on ...

:hi:

[Cush]

76. Hey Joe

no jokes, answer the questions

[sfecap]

78. Lieberman is an idiot. He's losing it.

What an embarrassment.

Truly Howdy Doody....

[Cush]

80. Go Edwards

going after Ashcroft

[GBD4]

82. The Current Question

asked for an unpopular policy, I don't think any of these answers would be unpopular

[janekat]

84. of course! They're not stupid... LOL!

[Malikshah]

91. Some of their answers would be unpopular

Civil unions, balanced budget, gephardt and the 93 issue, death-penalty by Kucinich, race issues, gender issues

All divisive in the country as a whole

[GBD4]

83. Sharpton

tonite we have 8 career politicians, an officer, and a gentleman

[Cush]

85. Sharpton: Lol

"Tonight we have eight career ploticians here, plus and officer and a gentlemen"

CMB: And a lady

[kayleybeth]

86. Gotta love Sharpton... n/t

[AP]

94. Applying the 2000 criteria, Sharpton is candidate I'd like to have a beer

with.

[realFedUp]

87. I agree with DK

He won't be elected but that's his direction
I'd like to see this country go.

[ronzo]

92. He really has good ideas...

In summation:

1)End the death penalty
2)15% cut in defense spending for social programs
3)Dept. of Peace

[Karmadillo]

93. But it's going to be fun to try to get him elected. Getting his policies

out to a wider audience will do an awful lot to start the country heading in the right (meaning left) direction.

[MuseRider]

117. If everyone

who appears to feel this way votes for him he just well may be.

[realFedUp]

90. Will Pukecannon and Press debate the debate?

Seems logical since it's the same network but
maybe they are doing the BIG REPLAY SHOW and
don't want to hash it out yet.

[realFedUp]

97. yeah...Joe Scarborough analyzing...

fair and balanced analysis again....can we
get our own network please. now.

[lindashaw]

98. Wes Clark is sick today. I think he feels terrible.

[kayleybeth]

103. He probably

hasn't been getting a lot of sleep the past week.

[realFedUp]

100. More debate "analysis" from Tweety

yeah more fair and balanced comments from the right.
Can we get some Democratic analysis from Democrats?

I am turning to Oprah.

[kayleybeth]

104. Tweety just said:

Anybody who takes Bill Clinton's advice right now is insane.

[diplomats]

119. Tweety's getting dumber by the minute

[VolcanoJen]

101. SHARPTON with the best line of the debate!

"Tonight, we have 8 career politicians, an officer, and a gentleman (pointing to himself). This is the Democratic Party!!"

I love you, Rev. Al!!!!

Sorry for the delay... it's Tivo's fault!

[union_maid]

107. Only saw the last half hour

I'll see the whole thing later. From what I saw, though, Clark's still my guy. I love Edwards, would love to see him as VP and see 16 years of Democratic adminstrations. I'd agree that CMB should be invited to join any administration that we get and Al Sharpton for press secretary!

[DemExpat]

111. Clark/Edwards....my dream team....with all of the others

in the administration!

:loveya:

:kick:
DemEx

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

118. Thanks kk, for a nicely laid out thread.

Laying out all the links is perfect. I'd hire you in an instant! :thumbsup: :D :toast: