Anybody who supports Bush is the ENEMY.

[Octafish]

Anybody who goes along and plausibly forgives Bush when he says he didn't know about Osama being a threat is the ENEMY.

Anybody who thinks Bush really means well when he ordered the mightiest military the world has ever known to attack a defenseless country rich with oil is the ENEMY.

Anybody who logically concludes that Bush would never intentionally out a CIA Non-Offical Cover officer and her organization to threaten the rest of the Federal intelligence bureaucracy is the ENEMY.

Anybody who believes the media will eventually cover Bush's crimes is the ENEMY.

You see, the ENEMY is aiding and abetting TREASON.

[Wetzelbill]

1. To be fair, some are just incredibly stupid.......

Of course, stupidity doesn't stop them from being the enemy I guess.

[avenueb]

2. brainwashed

most of them have had a thorough brainwashing

[Wetzelbill]

3. I wonder if some of them have a brain to wash?

Now that could be one of those "What is the sound of one hand clapping?" things.

[whatever4]

6. That's really the big question, isn't it?

I swear, it really is, in my mind, the big question of HOW in the HELL have so many people seemingly fallen for this BushCo? Have they fallen for it, or is our perception of that "majority" incorrect, itself perpetuated by the media? If most people do support them, even now, how???

Yeah, that's the one I'd really like to know. Someone should do some research. Now that would be a book; how it really happened. Was it floride in the water, what? How can any person or group of people still believe these many lies, and believe there was any good reason for them, if they accept that they were lied to?

That's where my little pea brain tips off into the abyss. How can this be happening

[xxqqqzme]

49. my entire family -

mother, father, brother, SIL, 2 sisters, BIL all worship the little prick 'n will tolerate no negative information to interupt thier idolatry . They R walking in a fog of denial. When they slam N2 the wall of the obvious, they simply blink, do a 180 'n walk away. They refuse 2 acknowledge all the bumps 'n bruises on their heads & bodies. Mind boggling.


My brother, recently returned from England, expressed amazement @ the discovery that Charles Darwin is buried @ Westminster Abbey!!! I refused 2 take the bait. I knew where that conversation was going.

[whatever4]

54. Oh dude

That's hard, I'm sorry. It reminds me of growing up in the midwest, and not being Christian. I always had the support of my family though. Hang in there!

[xxqqqzme]

55. Eggz-zakly

Was just in Indana 4 my grandmother's funeral. I have never been so surrounded by willful ignorance B4 in my life. Just astounding!

[existentialist]

10. stupidity

Indeed, it is even possible to argue that stupidity IS that enemy, . . .

[Octafish]

20. Ignorance is the enemy.

You got it Wetzelbill. The Buddha said all sin is the result of ignorance.

THE ONLY SIN IS IGNORANCE

Mankind is tripartite. That is, we consist of spirit as well as mind and body. if this were not so, then the injunction that we should love God with body, mind and spirit would have no validity.

This spirit within is, according to the great master Jesus, God operating within us. "Know you not that you are the temple of God, that the spirit of God lives in you?"

The primary purpose of meditation is to get to know and understand your own mind, the ultimate purpose is indeed unitive knowledge of the spirit. Not intellectual knowledge, but empirical knowledge through direct, personal experience.

The Buddhists speak of the Godhead as being tripartite. The Dharmakaya, or the Absolute seat of all being. The Sambogakaya, or personalised God; Yahwah, Jehovah, Allah etc. The Nirmanakaya, or materialised Avatar; Krishna, the Buddha, Jesus, etc.

Unfortunately, we confuse the concepts we have of God with the intellectually unknowable Godhead, and so we quarrel and even go to war with those who hold a different concept of the inconceivable. We fight over labels, and the last place we look for God is within. No only within ourselves, but in all Beings. Even in seemingly inanimate objects. "Lift the stone and you will find me, cleave the wood and I am there." Yet we still put God outside ourselves. No wonder we judge ourselves as being unworthy sinners.

CONTINUED...

http://www.firehorse.com.au/philos/dhurst/ftpfiles/31.html

A sinner.

[opihimoimoi]

4. Let me help COUNT THE WAYS:::Treasure wasted is Opportunites

LOST....Bush has run our economy to the brink. 8 $Trilliuon in the hole is not a laughing matter...and, NO, we cannot just print more money to cover the debt....thats ignorant.

Bush is a loose cannon and is wrecking our way of life. Because of his mistakes, which the media keep covering up with BS, AMERICA PAYS A STIFF PRICE. Worse.... it continues.....

So Octafish is correct....to help Bush is to help wreck our Nation...

Hard to believe>??? Look at the evidence.....Fear Factor UP.

Coffins from the ME coming home faster.

Gas prices up

This is NUTS.......

Bush is hurting our opportunities for our Planet to heal itself. If our Planet dies.....we die too.

[Octafish]

21. You got it, opihimoimoi.

The little turd from Crawford has hijacked the engine, disengaged the emergency brake, and headed down the wrong line toward an oncoming freight train. Wonder why so few understand what it happening?

I was hoping more people would pile on the subject, a corrupt traitor who is doing ALL THAT HE CAN as commandeer-in-thief to loot the U.S. Treasury, penure the American people, destroy the Constitution of the United States and make war on the "Arabs."

How did he get there? Well, the Supreme Court, for those who may've forgotten, stopped the Florida recount in 2000, handing the loser the White House. Diebold, Sequoia Systems, ES&S and the Urosevich brothers helped keep him there in 2004.



Loser.

[opihimoimoi]

32. If we follow the money trail..it becomes evident who profits from Bushies

presidency....those entities you just mentioned among others.

Themselves before the NATION...Greed is IN while the Planet wastes... where is their thinking? Raptures? They think the Rapture gonna make everything alright? If it comes....

what if there is NO RAPTURE??? we suffer a broken Planet and misery from depleted resources and a horrid population problemo?

Are in we for the final irony? The thinning of ourselves, no obesity? No food/water for the elderly, the weak, the dying, the sick? This is what happens in Famines. Where is the Famine Prevention DEPT? These Pubs are so up their assholes flashlights are needed.

Luv the Chicken George thingy

[dbeach]

37. yes and worse if theri plans are finalized..

their rapture is what I would desribe as a satanic deception and to be avoided at al cost..and I am a devout Catholic.but I don't believe in Rome and the cardinals and all that politics..

I believe the Creator has lightworkers all over the planet who don't take orders from the pyramid tips or tops..in religion..govt or military or whatever..

[opihimoimoi]

45. The Creator implemented Balance through Chaos, the Ying Yang thingy

Bush is monopole...he don even know what is that.....

[dbeach]

47. bush /blair insults the balance

and his thugs sway to his siren song of deceit and treachery

funy how the g-8 luv fest was safe while London burned!!!

[dbeach]

5. part of the problem

we are the solution..

the privleged elites are escalating their fear ,with the goal being a world owned and totally in their control

John Edwards,remember him??, said a 2 tiered society.

with the uber elites and the impoverished...
there will be no room for the middle class in their brave new world

and in the end game the elites will abuse theri supporters

cuz its in their veins

red,white and blue blooded treasonous criminals.

[Octafish]

24. Bush HATES Democracy.

Smirko and his handler Sneering Dick Cheney were so against finding out the will of the people, they sued to stop the Florida recount, even though they had smeared Gore as litiginous. By 2004, their stooges in Congress had gotten enough paperless ballot boxes in place to make sure the final tally matched what they needed.

Where did these turds and slugs learn such treason? Poppy Bush as head of CIA was the invisible führer of Capitalism's Invisible Army. The wimp was the first head of the nation's secret police to become President, head of the nation's "visible" government. Too bad his head was too small to wear both hats, let alone one well.

Poppy had no high regard for Democracy or Human Rights. Remember when Haiti’s first democratically elected leader, President Jean-Bertrand Aristide, was deposed by a junta of generals in the early 1990s? Poppy Bush didn’t life a finger to help him, not even for a telephone call, even though the generals would have returned the government to civilian control, had he done so, according to Aristide.

So later Congress had to debate Clinton's first, meager, attempt to use the USMC to kick the generals out. Later, Aristide was smeared by Jesse Helms, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee chairman and noted racist and conservative stooge. Helms said Aristide was a communist who “necklaced” his victims with burning tires.

Aristide, for those who don't know, was a Roman Catholic priest who survived an assassination attempt while celebrating Mass. Maimed by the loss of an eye in the attack, Aristide had been found guilty of preaching “Liberation Theology." That's the original Liberals Like Christ, wherein the teachings of the New Testament form the basis of pro-democratic popular movements in Third World nations.

Aristide’s enemies, the generals and friends of Poppy and Jesse (and by extension the BFEE, including Phil Gramm, Wendy Gramm, the Saudi Oil sheikhs, the Pakistani intel, etc, etc.)? Well, they’re the rent-a-cops charged with keeping the masses’ hands off the 99-percent of the property on Haiti owned by 1-percent of its people. In exchange, the elites let their police protectors enjoy the lucrative drug trade. And that's why Smirk got Negroponte's turds to overthrow Aristide AGAIN.

Hmmm. Sounds like the US is heading in the same direction under Baby Doc Bush. Drug dealing. Illegal war. Perverted Democracy. Sounds more and more like the United States is turning into Haiti. And soon, thanks to the tax cuts for the rich and $44 Trillion debt forcast, 1 percent of Americans will OWN 99 percent of America -- just like in Haiti.

[Wetzelbill]

26. Aristide is interesting

the liberation theology he was an advocated morphed into the Lavalas Movement. Even as late as 2004, Helms and his affiliate the International Republican Institute -which acts as a faux kind of Carter Center or something like that - were smearing him.

Two things I would recommend to you if you are interested in Haiti. Watch "The Agronomist" a documentary film directed by Jonathan Demme. It's about Jean Dominique, a Haitian activist and radio personality. He went into exile several times and fought for free speech in Haiti for over 40 years. It's great.

Also try reading "Hideous Dream" which is by a special forces soldier and progressive activist named Stan Goff. It's about the 1994 invasion of Haiti in which, Aristide was brought back to the country and installed as president again. Excellent and interesting book.

[blindpig]

28. like Haiti in more ways than one

The environmental degradation of Haiti, only 3% of forest remaining, massive erosion, coastal waters devoid of fish, gross overpopulation, also predicts what those swine have in store for us. And the rest of the planet too. How do they think they will escape from the hole they are digging for us all, L5 orbit?

[dbeach]

31. ask the residents of NM who, live

near a certain base

UFO s manufactured in the USA or USSR or germany wherever??

bush and the villains will fly away to poisoin the next victim planet and smirk as they nuke our Mother Earth

foo fighters were small tracker type UFOs that harassed the USAF in WW II .

Hitler had lots of technology that was almost refined and was seized by the USA and USSR after berlin fell in May of 1945

[seemslikeadream]

29. Conclusive Evidence of U.S. Role in Kidnapping and Coup

Monday, April 4, 2004

As Bush Administration Scrambles to Shore Up Appointed Haitian Regime Commission to Present Conclusive Evidence of U.S. Role in Kidnapping and Coup

Date: Wednesday, April 7
Time: 6:30- 9:30 pm
Location: The Whitman Theatre at Brooklyn College

Panel to include: Rep. Maxine Waters, Rep. Major Owens, Former Attorney General Ramsey Clark, Ossie Davis, Gil Noble, Amy Goodman, Ron Daniels, and other prominent activists and journalists

The Bush Administration is facing a growing crisis over its role in the coup in Haiti and the kidnapping of President Jean-Bertrand Aristide, who continues to speak out about his abduction by the U.S. The 15-member organization of Caribbean nations, CARICOM, has refused to recognize the U.S.-installed regime and has called for an investigation, despite intense pressure and threats from the U.S. The 53-member African Union has raised the same demand.

On Wednesday, April 7, the Haiti Commission of Inquiry will initiate a public inquiry of the role of the Bush Administration in the crisis in Haiti. Delegations that visited both the Central African Republic and the Dominican Republic will present conclusive evidence that U.S. Special Forces armed, trained, and directed the "rebels" and engineered the abduction of President Aristide.

The preliminary report from the Commission states, "two hundred U.S. Special Forces soldiers came to the Dominican Republic as part of 'Operation Jaded Task,' with special authorization from President Hipólito Mejia. We have received many reports that this operation was used to train Haitian rebels. We have received many consistent reports of Haitian rebel training centers at or near Dominican military facilities. We have received many consistent reports of guns transported from the Dominican Republic to Haiti, some across the land border, and others shipped by sea."

Johnnie Stevens of the International Action Center, a member of the delegation to the Central African Republic, said, "The U.S.-installed Prime Minister, Gerard Latortue, has hailed the paid mercenaries as freedom fighters, and had thus discredited himself among the Caribbean nations."

Secretary of State Colin Powell, in a desperate bid to lend some credibility to the Latortue government, is now visiting Haiti for the first time. This attempt to put U. S. weight behind the isolated colonial-style regime is a response to its growing isolation. Sara Flounders, of the International Action Center, said, "This visit by Powell is a sign of the Bush Administration’s growing isolation and disarray. The U.S. is desperately trying to shore up a discredited regime in the face of international opposition to the appointed government of Haiti after the stinging rebuke directed at the U.S. by the recent CARICOM meeting." Flounders is a member of the Haiti Commission of Inquiry and was part of the delegation to the Central African Republic, where she visited with President Aristide shortly after his kidnapping.

Kim Ives from Haiti Progres, who was part of the delegation to the Dominican Republic, told the media, "In the course of our investigation here, we met with many Haitians who were forced to flee Haiti following the coup d'etat of Feb. 29. Their testimony gave very concrete names and faces to the stories of violence which we have heard that the so-called rebels, trained and assembled in the Dominican Republic, have carried out in Haiti over the past month. We were also touched by the tears of refugees who told us of how they are apprehensive over the fate of their loved ones left behind in Haiti."


http://www.iacenter.org/haiti_0407press.htm



Operation Jaded Task


From 2/23/2003:

US Troopers Secretly Land in Dominican Republic
http://english.pravda.ru/world/2003/02/20/43514.html
The military training operation nicknamed Jaded Task took by surprise Dominican Foreign Ministry.

The US Army started today a training operation in the Caribbean country as part of routine maneuvers of the Southern Command. The landing had been kept so secretly that Dominican Foreign Ministry Hugo Tolentino was reported... by the TV.

As per the first reports, the US troops are training Dominican soldiers on anti-terrorism operations in the north of the island. When the national media started announcing the landing, country's Foreign Minister was having a lunch. Tolentino said that, as chief of the Dominican diplomacy, he should have been formally advised, as personally requested to the Dominican Army and the US Embassy to Santo Domingo.

(snip)

However, the most interesting thing, here, is that the Communist Party of the Dominican Republic did know about the operations. This correspondent had access to two formal communications issued by the US Embassy including details of these activities, during the Communist summit held in Buenos Aires in January. There, the US ambassador to Santo Domingo reported about 10.000 soldiers coming to the Dominican Republic to take part of the training.

Moreover, the communists and other leftist forces in the country made know such documents to the local media in November. According to the denounce, US soldiers can freely enter and leave the country without any kind of permission. Also, they can do it through owned means of conveyance.

[dbeach]

30. euro and american royalty have merged..combining with

the elites and fascists in most nations have literally couped their way to total control via violence and stolen elections.

most wealth is not earned .it is inherited..gates and a few others are the exception.
so this combo of privlege whiny scions of nobility are making their final junta which IF successful will result in the assets of the entire planet in the hands of a few hundred individual cartels and of course their paid assassins whether it is a secret force or a visible force like the US military

WORST is planned for the middle class than the worst nightmares.

King George Bush the second = KGB II

[opihimoimoi]

33. Old France had the same problem...until the Bastille was stormed.

[seemslikeadream]

44. Do you have your pitchfork, opihimoimoi?

http://www.joslinhall.com.nyud.net:8090/graphics/diamond-Oct_5th.jpg

The readers of England and France could not get enough of the Countess's memoirs, although what you thought of them depended on which side of the Royal table you sat on- "a cesspool of calumny" was the verdict of the Abbe Georgel, friend and secretary of Cardinal Rohan. In October of 1789 a "Second Memoirs justicatif", much more barbed and venomous than the first, was rushed to the printers, another direct attack on the Queen by Jeanne, published in French and English and distributed in Paris where it stirred the mobs to a new frenzy. Mirabeau said of the Countess- "Madame de La Motte's voice alone brought on the horrors of July 14 and of October 5" (the storming of Versailles and the slaughter of the troops there by the 'Women's Army').

[opihimoimoi]

46. Pitch forks and fish monger knives they stormed the place and

the revolution was soon in the hands of the Peeps....

Marie and Louie, taken from Versailles and placed under house arrest in Paris...they got they heads lopped of about 3 or 4 years later I believe.

But the point is 5% of the Population lived in lavish slendor and the masses starved....and it was indeed a small famine that set the French Rev in motion.

This 5 % RULED...made laws and codes that favored themselves., The Peeps were defensless. Sound fam?

[seemslikeadream]

48. FAMINE!!

This is the last my great great grandparents saw of their home in County Wexford before being forced, starved, off of their land.

http://www.antiquemapsandprints.com.nyud.net:8090/scans/p-10607.jpg

[dbeach]

50. Scarlett Pimpernel was a story but it followwed the french revoluion t

with some historical accuracy

the SP rescued the french aristocracy and others from the guillitine


http://www.blakeneymanor.com/timeline.html

"We seek him here, we seek him there
Those Frenchies seek him everywhere.
Is he in Heaven? Is he in Hell?
That demmed elusive Pimpernel!"


Modern aristocracy from the bushevik dynasty to their cousins with the British crown need arresting not rescuing..

Liberty Fraternity Equality was the motto of the revolutionaries.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

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[cynatnite]

9. No

There are some who cannot comprehend or accept that a sitting pres would ever do the things we know he did. My mother is a rw bush supporter. No amount of talking will change her mind. She just sticks her head farther into the bible.

She's a nutjob, yes, but she's my mother and she's not the enemy. Misguided and a little nuts, yeah. She's also compassionate, funny, and so many other great things.

So, just because someone does something you don't like, supports something you don't like doesn't make them the 'enemy' or 'traitors'.

Isn't that what some repukes do? rover practically called liberals traitors. Painted a nice wide stroke over anyone who didn't support bush or this war.

It demeans you, me and everyone else when a such a wide stroke is painted over an entire group of people.

Your rigid views of those who don't think like you or stand with you is not something I'm comfortable with.

[Octafish]

39. Sorry you see things that way.

My point is that we are in an information war. The people who support Bush are not informed.

We -- as in those who give a damn about the nation and are willing to stand up and say and do something about it -- need to spread the truth about Bush and his supporters.

Talking may not do much, but it has been known to change people's minds. Check out what the ancient Greeks had to say about rhetoric -- it was the art of persuasive speeking.

I'm truly sorry if I hurt your feelings. I believe your mom -- and the vast majority of people who voted for and otherwise support Bush -- are good people. Of these, several are in my own family. I see them, not as an enemy, but as future allies.

[Lecky]

12. Isn't that just as extreme as...

Bush's 'with us or against us' speech?

Let's not lose common sense in all of our anger please. Like others have said before, some people are just ignorant to what's really going on.

[existentialist]

13. "CorpoREAL friends are spiritual enemies" (William Blake)

Well my father voted for Bush too--but not my Mother or Grandmother. But I still respect my father even though when it comes to politics he is a bit of a gullible ignoramus--I just have to keep trying to educate him. . . .

[Lecky]

14. yeah...I have republican family members as well

Plus don't forget that a good number of people are completely apolitical, they just vote for their political party then go back to life as usual. Does this make them bad people? No, I don't think so.

[existentialist]

15. "Good (nonthinking) citizens"

It doesn't make them very helpful though does it?

[Lecky]

16. lol no

Unfortunately it doesn't, but declaring nonthinking Bush supporters as our enemies won't be very helpful either.

[xxqqqzme]

51. 'just voting' makes them ignorant citizens

Dean has said 'showing up to vote gets you a D- in citizenship, It is the LEAST you can do.'

It may not mark them as 'bad' but it is a long way from 'good'.

[Zorra]

36. No. ALL RWers support violence, chaos, madness, and destruction.

What do they stand for, and what is the result of their actions?

How can you possibly defend any of them?

Just look at what they have done.

[Octafish]

41. Sorry, if in trying to make the point, I hit a raw nerve.

I'm tired of giving Bush the benefit of the doubt. Here's a short list of reasons why:

• Vietnam
• Guatemala
• Chile
• Watergate
• October Surprise
• El Salvador
• Reagan Survives Hinckley and Bush
• Voodoo Economics
• INSLAW/Promis
• Haiti
• Iraq-gate / Banca Nazionale del Lavoro arms
• BCCI International Money Laundering for Terrorists & Intelligence Community
• Savings & Loan scandal in general and Silverado in particular
• Iran-contra Guns/Drugs/Martial Law
• Gulf War I Glaspie Gives Go-Ahead
• Selection 2000 Shreds US Constitution
• Tax Cuts for UltraRich
• Criminal Justice Department
• Suicidal Environmental Policy
• ENRON Energy Policy
• 9-11 Criminal Negligence, at best; Treason, most likely
• Illegal Iraq Invasion

It may not be possible to convert Bush's backers, as opposed to his supporters. But people with an open mind, those who are good people -- the vast majority of Americans, I believe -- will change when given the facts. What that takes is a lot of people providing the secret ingredient: Truth.

[DerekG]

17. "Only a Sith deals in absolutes."

I've been itching to use that one for weeks.

[Octafish]

42. Thus, there's no right and wrong? No good and evil?

From reading your posts, DerekG, for a couple of years now I've believed you to be a complex person.
I know you understand that there are absolutes.

[smbolisnch]

18. That's a little extreme don't you think?

My father, misguided as his politics may be, certainly isn't my enemy. I am sure many other DUers can relate to that as well. It is never a good idea to use a broadbrush, like you are doing right now. Choose your enemies wisely.

[Theduckno2]

19. 'The best way to punish your enemies is to reward your friends.'

I think I can attribute this to RFK (someone correct me if I'm wrong). Contributions and assistance to those who support our causes seems to be the way to go. Given some of your choices in avatars, I'm sure your hearts are in the right (left!) place. By the way RFK = Robert Fitzgerald Kennedy for some of the young DUers.
edit; RFK = Robert Francis Kennedy. What was I thinking? I'm still trying to track down the quote.

[lonestarnot]

22. Agree!

[leyton]

23. So my grandparents are the enemy?

My close friend, who is the most decent guy I've ever known, is the enemy? My history teacher, possibly the smartest and funniest man I've met, is the enemy?

I can't believe there are people who post stuff like this. I mean, really. Get a grip.

[seemslikeadream]

27. Yes they are the enemy

Just because they are ignorant we're supposed to give them a pass for supporting fascism? I think not. You get a grip, I doubt you even realize what's happened to this country and it's because people's laziness and stupidy.

Song Of Choice
Early every year, seeds are growing
Unseen, unheard, they lie beneath the ground
Would you know before the leaves are showing
That with weeds all your garden will abound?

If you close your eyes, stop your ears
Hold your mouth, how can you know?
The seeds you cannot see may not be there
The seeds you cannot hear may never grow

In January you've still got the choice
You can cut the weeds before they start to bud
If you leave them to grow higher, they'll silence your voice
And in December you may pay with your blood

Close your eyes, stop your ears
Close your mouth and take it slow
Let others take the lead and you bring up the rear
And later you can say you didn't know

Everyday another vulture takes flight
There's another danger born every morning
In the darkness of your blindness the beast will learn to bite
How can you fight if you can't recognize a warning?

Close your eyes, stop your ears
Close your mouth and then you know
Let others take the lead and you bring up the rear
And later you can say you didn't know

Today you may earn a living wage
Tomorrow you may be on the dole
Though there's millions going hungry, you needn't disengage
For it's them, not you, that's fallen in the hole

It's alright for you if you run with the pack
It's alright if you agree with all they do
If the fascist's party slowly climbing back
It's not here yet, so what's it got to do with you?

The weeds are all around us and they're growing
It will soon be too late for the knife
If you leave them on the wind that around the world is blowing
You may pay for your silence with your life

Close your eyes, stop your ears
Close your mouth, they're never there
And if it happens here, they'll never come for you
Because they'll know you really didn't care

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

43. So if you lived in Germany in 33?

[noiretextatique]

25. duh

i only say that because it's so obvious. yes, folks...the people who support this regime that you are so vehemently against are not your friends. they may love you, and be the kindest people you know, but they if they are supporting bush, inc, they are supporting the enemy of all americans and the rest of the world.

[tnlefty]

53. "They may love you, and be the kindest people you know",

From my experience that kindness and love are just for show. Underneath, there is a very mean-spirited, ugly side. They don't want truth or factual information, they are happy to be ignorant if it allows them to hate on somebody, i.e. for race, for being poor, for being a female, anyone that they can beat down. Selfishness and greed are also a factor.

I was absolutely floored a few months ago when my mother revealed in a phone conversation that her newfound hero was Ann-thrax! This is a woman who was on the beginning edge of the women's movement for Pete's sake!

Sometimes it just gets to be a bit much.

[CityZen-X]

34. De-Evolved Ugly American's

Or better known as Mushroom Nationals. (those who dwell in the dark, and thrive on massive quantities of Bu$h*t!!)

[Zorra]

35. I shun republicans like I would shun nazis. They are just the same.

Yes, you are correct, they are the enemies of democracy.

If they are not prevented from doing so, they will eventually kill hundreds of thousands if not millions of innocent people, and will inevitably destroy the planet.

[dbeach]

38. bush the uniter is the great divider

listen to the forum.

my sister is a bushsupporter and she is not my personal enemy..I luv my sister BUT she ain't no friend of freedom..her value system is almost complete opposite from mine

Will my sister be there for me in a bushevik created crisis..given that this is gonna get much worse?

yes I think my sister will be there for me specially when the buhseviks escalate the agenda..

Divide and conquer is the way elites have maintained control since before Christ was a corporal..

[Zenlitened]

40. Yep, I'd agree with that. It's not to say that the Bush-enablers can't....

... come to their senses and get to work making things better. It's just that, as long as they're making excuses for him, they are PART OF THE PROBLEM.

[DaveT]

52. This is the dilemma for all of us.

We are headed in the direction of Civil War. Nobody sane wants it. The overwhelming majority still do not realize it. But we are divided over life and death issues, and if you follow the logic of what divides us, it ends in Civil War.

If you really believe that "abortion is murder" -- how can you enjoy Thanksgiving Dinner with someone in your family who advocates that having an abortion is a human right?

If you really believe (as I do) that "the unprovoked invasion of Iraq is mass murder" -- how can you enjoy Thanksgiving Dinner with someone in your family who advocates the slaughter of Iraqis as payback for September 11?

In both cases, you have to assume that your kin are "mistaken" rather than "evil."

But this assumption is not really correct. I know the "facts" about abortion. I know that nothing but mystical claptrap lies behind the notion that "abortion is murder." And most of the Bush supporters really do know that the general population of Iraq had nothing to do with September 11 or posed any specific threat to America or anybody else.

They "believe" in the abstraction of life in the fetus but have no regard for the reality of life in the people killed by our bombs.

It is evil to attack a country that did you no harm in the name of any abstract idea -- whether that abstraction is:

(1) the spreading of democracy;

(2) the pre-emptive elimation of the threat of weapons of mass destruction;

(3) the proving of the point that we will not take 9-11 lying down;

(4) the PNAC theory of remaking the political culture of the middle east for general betterment of civilization;

or,

(5) the simple racist hatred of brown people.


No matter which of the rationalizations of the month that are offered for the invasion of Iraq, every single one of them is an abstract theory -- another manifestation of the absurd premise of the entire Bush project of fighting a war against the abstract noun of "terrorism."

I'm sure that many Bush supporters are just pig ignorant and refuse to grasp the factual distinction between Al Qaeda terrorists and any old raghead that happens to be in the cross hairs. Even these racist dopes, however, are not really all that stupid in most cases.

No, the Bush supporters that I know think of themselves as astute observers of world affairs, and believe that it is important to show "them" that "we" mean business. They fully comprehend that the "collateral damage" that we visit upon Iraq makes innocent people suffer. But we are at war, they rationalize, and at when you are at war innocent people get killed. At this point, they usually mention the 3,000 innocent people who got killed in New York that hideous morning.

They support the idea of killing innocents as a necessary cost for attaining whatever abstract goal they happen to have bought into. The fact that the abstract goals contradict each other never seems to bother them -- which makes it nigh impossible for me to believe that they are motivated by the "sober analysis" that they affect while dismissing us as soft headed dreamers.

This audience of rationalizing war mongers is who Rove was addressing the other day when he claimed that conservatives understood the meaning of 9/11 while liberals only want to offer understanding and therapy to the murderers who killed our countrymen that day.

Karl Rove and every damn one of the 45% who still support this bullshit war are aware that all the murderers who killed our countrymen died along with our countrymen that day. There is no way to seek revenge against them -- they're already dead.

I support killing anybody who conspired with those murderers.

But the people of Iraq did not conspire with those murderers. Therefore killing Iraqis "because of 9/11" is mass murder.



So how do you relate to people who are engaged in an evil project of mass murder?

Martin King and Mondas Gandhi argued that you must reach their souls. But both those guys got assassinated.



I have no answer, but I pray to whatever God might be listening that we can find a way to avoid killing each other over these irreconcilable differences.

[mwb970]

56. What would a BAD president do?

I often fantasize about conversations I would have with a right-winger (if I knew any) in which I could say, "OK, pretend we have a BAD president. Make it a Democrat, if that pleases you. Now, what would a BAD president do? Bankrupt our Treasury? Pollute our air and water? Lie us into an unnecessary, illegal war? Make America hated around the world? Unite our enemies and divide our friends? Sorry, THOSE ARE ALL TAKEN!"