Post your best post that you feel should have gotten more attention here

[cynatnite]

Did you ever work on a post and when it was finished think it was the best and most insightful post that ever existed only to see it fall off the page faster than a turd down a toilet?

on edit: This seems like a good place for those who feel their posts deserved more attention than they got.

[Wetzelbill]

1. all the time

that's why I usually only post bs now.

Seriously, the last two days some of my finest work has been on the London bombings posts, some of the questions about terror, such as the roots, the causes, was Al-qaeda involved. I made some long ones on PNAC on one thread. (I've been published on them)

All of those threads just blew by, a few people replied to my stuff but nothing too much. One guy was arguing with me about something he was totally wrong on too, haha.

My most fruitful one was that I replied to a bit of an obscure post that was almost off the page. It was about women being discriminated against because of weight. It got kicked and ended up with enough votes to make the greatest page. It was the best overall discussion I have ever had on DU. Here it is.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4025275

[spuddonna]

2. Always...

By the time I write my reply, full of witty banter and chock full of pertanent political satire, the thread is kaput...

:) But then again, I'm new! :)

[Richard Steele]

3. YUP, just this week! THIS got NO responses at all:

[spuddonna]

8. LOL!!! That's AWESOME!!

Oh my gosh, can't breathe... laughing too hard...

Oh man... that's beautiful... See, there's gold buried everywhere in DU, and I feel like I only get to scratch the topsoil with a rake! :)

Did you do that image? :)

[Richard Steele]

14. Yeah, I spent all day making that from THIS pic:

[spuddonna]

16. You are a Photoshop Master!

That's freakin amazing...

You should do that for a living! Make political editorial comics... I mean, why should only people who do illustrations get put into newspapers and magazines?!

[roguevalley]

11. Now that is hilarious. I didn't see it. I love the spunky posts. :)

[ReadTomPaine]

32. Love it! n/t

[blondeatlast]

36. That's great! You should repost it (I assume it's archived).

Post the link here and I'll kick it up.

Excellent work.

[Richard Steele]

37. To be FAIR & BALANCED (lol), I also had an OPPOSITE experience this week.

I started his thread to offer folks a poster (original NOT mine)
that a few had seen and wanted to distribute:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4053641&mesg_id=4053641

This was _NOT_ one of my best posts;
The poster was some quick second-rate work
that most 10-year-olds could do...

And BAM: 15 votes for "Greatest" page! WTF???
I obviously have no idea what people really want!

[cynatnite]

4. I've done two I thought were academy award winners

down they went :shrug:

I guess it's only us who appreciates our genius wit, artistry and political savvy.

[WilliamPitt]

5. I just did this, a post to Andy's attackers

In case it gets deleted:

===

Smile.

Go ahead. Smile. Smile wide. Stretch those cheeks. Hold it. Hold it. Someone take a picture.

There.

That's how your folks will remember you. Happy. Smiling. Pleased with yourself. Confident. Giving every appearance of strength.

Put that picture in an envelope. Bury it. Leave a map to its location. Some day, your grandchildren will dig it up and find it. They'll coo, "Oh! That was grandpa! Didn''t he look strong? He was such a good Republican. Too bad we can't go to college because we're still paying off his settlement agreement from 2006."

Yeah, ain't it a bitch.

Here's what I know.

I know that next week a few thousand people will gather by the hole you helped dig, and those few thousand people will sing from their souls in the name of a man you never met, a man who was better than your whole line. We will put our friend to rest, and we will sing his song from the depths of ourselves. We will love him one last time.

And then we will make you our business. We will make you our project. We know your name, we know where you live, we know where you do business, we know what you said, we know what you did, we have copies of it all, and all the angels of Heaven and Hell will not keep us from burning you down.

Try to hide. Please. Try to be innocent. I beg you. I beg you to act like you didn't do what you did. God sees you, but worse, oh so much worse, I saw you, and I made copies.

I will carve my friend's name into you. I will write there in salt. Perhaps, after that, you will begin to feel the pain you made him feel.

I will carve my friend's name into you. I will write there in salt.

You know my name. I give you my word. My solemn promise. My oath.

I will write his name in salt.

Deep breaths.

Make some arrangements.

Your life is about to change.

I promise.

[cynatnite]

10. good post. n/t

[spuddonna]

12. Holy cow, that's powerful...

I read your earlier post, and never got to tell you how moved I was... I hope that if it's possible, that everyone that was involved in preventing Andy's surgery is prosecuted, or held accountable in some way.

I gave money to Andy's fundraiser, and even though it wasn't much, it was such a wonderful thing that happened here. Believe it or not, I cried tears of joy to know that people could still care that much, that so much positive energy could really change the world.

And then I watched as charges of fraud were made against a very sick man. Skinner and all the Mods did an excellent job of locking the topic until evidence was found to prove that Andy was indeed sick.

And I can say that there have been a few times in my life where I have seen true evil. And what these people did to delay Andy's surgery... You don't need the Devil when you've got people like that around...

[Qanisqineq]

6. yeah, so I don't start threads anymore!

:D

[leftofthedial]

7. at least turds circle a few times on the way

[PA Mamma]

9. LMAO !!!!

I wasn't even going to post that but since the thread pertains to talent going unnoticed I had too.

[spuddonna]

13. lol Hey, that should be the name of the thread!

Maybe DU could put up a new section called "Turd Circles" at the end of the week... People could put their threads that died a premature death in there!

[leftofthedial]

33. that's a great idea!

[Wetzelbill]

15. classic

:spray:

[WCGreen]

17. I have posted a few of my OpEd's that have been

published and they didn;t even circle the bowl. Oh I guess they did, cause they got a big fat 0 response

And then I post a toss of thing about Bush being my president because he is the president of the US and I am an american and all armegedon breaks loose..... Even though I hae been here for years, donate and have real great dem cred, I was automatically branded a freeper....

So, I have been hangin in the Lounge with the other lizards, havin fun and getting to know some of the folks away from the harsh reality of our current political climate.....

[Wetzelbill]

19. and I know exactly what thread you're talking about too

:-)

[WCGreen]

20. That's why I mentioned it......

CAuse you were there.....

Man that was brutal

[Wetzelbill]

24. you got called a Freeper too, haha

That killed me. As, if you'd take the time to make well over a thousand posts and then came out on a RW attack in the middle of the night when not many people are around. It did get ugly though. I just felt disgusted at some of the posts.

[WCGreen]

25. It's actually pretty funny when you think about it....

Rush in 1992, the last time I regularly listened to the Ass Wipe, had a show that stated he was going to just join the crowd and support Bill Clinton for president....

You should have heard the ass holes calling in...

NoRush, please don't desert us....

Oh my god it wa then I realized that we were indeed facing a long dark time in this country....

[cynatnite]

21. I posted an article that got a lot of play

The only reason it did was because of the title, I think. It was about the WH chasing it's own tail and got a few votes for greatest page. Could've knocked me over with a feather when I saw that.

It must be a hit or miss kind of thing with posts. Some do good, some drop off and very good ones just get lost in the mix.

With the way this place hops sometimes...it's not a surprise.

[WCGreen]

22. Yea, I love it and hate it for that

[spuddonna]

26. lol I should hang out there!

Obviously, if you aren't frothing at the mouth, you don't care enough... ;)

Jeez, you have over a thousand posts... do people think that the Freepers have that much stamina!? lol

[Violet_Crumble]

18. I can't post it here or this thread will get moved to the I/P forum!

Besides, I'm in a bit of an upmyself mood tonight and can't pick between some of the posts I've left in the Israel/Palestine forum...

Violet...

[interupt]

23. All the time mate

Considering some of the posts I can see are honey pots filled with Troll bait...BAM! 372 replies in 30 minutes.

Personally I thought this post was comic genius, but maybe a little too light in regards to London and Andy

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4054131&mesg_id=4054131

[mogster]

27. More times than you can count, lol

My nickname is 'The Sinker' ;-)

[baby_mouse]

28. I've not been doing too badly over the last few days N/T

[muriel_volestrangler]

29. Yeah, I've got one to whinge about

On the 17th May, I posted this about how the BBC had done a programme back in March on the memos later known as the Downing Street Memos - and that more had appeared in November in the Telegraph newspaper. It got 6 replies, mostly kicks from one interested person.

A day later, someone noticed the same story had been posted at DailyKos (after mine), and that got 109 replies. Why is it ignorable when it's at DU, but big news when DailyKos notices it a day later?

Whinge over.

[sweetheart]

38. Path dependence

The MSM is afraid to expose how much of its upstream catalog is really
programmed by their online editorial surveillance. To kick a good thread
is to expose a source, give someone credit and (in the mind of some)
to take credit away from your own ideas contribution.

Imagine, if somebody started publishing jesus christ's sentiments,
modernized for current times, would he be kicked... probably laughed at
and kicked about perhaps. Entertainment and treating knowledge as if it
were all news cycle is some of the problem, IMO.

Some knowledge expressed is trancendetal, and does not rise and fall with
the news cycle, and that knowledge is the editors here at DU that
post and discuss, like yourself.

The Mainstream culture must permanently pretend DU does not exist, to
keep its honest views sidelined. I think DU's still early generation in
terms of its software, and "vote for greatest" will include "thread" AND
"post", as well as other forms of cataloging this mind-space such as
the DU-ipedia thing.

Imagine if YOU broke the story yourself from top to bottom, and how,
on this anonymous board, anyone who "knew" that would be afraid to
expose that they got the source from you... so they don't post and
it sinks. Then when it is discused later, they can mention it and
appear wise. It is information-for-economic advantage or social advantage, and is part of the game of this political information forum. A propagandist (writer) here is aware that their work, if it
is good, will be stolen in an instant, as by the anonymous posting,
we assign no credit, no economic value to our work. It only works
when everyones hear is in to it.

[bixente]

30. Yes, I posted this recently, and it's about to disappear again :(

Moeko's Owl
By: Azrael

Let me introduce you to Moeko. She's a ninensei (American 8th grade) at one of my schools. When I first met her though, she was an ichinensei (American 7th grade). My very first week at this school, I was in the gym watching a practice for Sports Day. She came and sat down beside me, and had a conversation with me - in English! With her level, I thought she was an exceptionally skilled sannensei (American 9th grade), so I was shocked to find her in an ichinensei class.

In class she's always very quiet. She barely smiles at some of my jokes/antics, which crack the other students up. But whenever we do a writing excercise, most students just do the required 3-4 sentences. Moeko turns in two paragraphs. Sometimes she'll come up to me after class, and ask me a question in English, or just have a random conversation.

Her birthday was in November. I congratulated her, and she asked me when mine was. I told her (it was in January). She said, in English, "I will make a card and present for you. Please look forward to it." I thought that was just about the sweetest thing I'd ever heard. But I certainly didn't expect her to remember, much less actually give me something.

December had been particularly hard, since this was when the long and excruciating process of the break-up with my ex started. It finally ended on a Saturday - the day after my birthday. My ex had forgotten my birthday, and when I called her about it, I found that she'd spent the day fucking the 5th guy she cheated on me with, the one who would finally put the last nail in the coffin. I wish I could say that was the extent of her awfulness, but it was really only the icing on a very large cake. I don't remember Sunday, but I don't imagine it being a particularly bright and chipper day.

And then on Monday, I went to Moeko's class.

It was any other class, really. Moeko was her usual self, smiling awkwardly at my jokes and quietly doing her work. I'd of course remembered what she said back in November, but I didn't actually expect anything from her. But after class ended, she came up to me and, as she said she would, gave me a card and present. I was surprised. Not only did she remember, she carried through with it! I thanked her profusely, and returned back to the teachers room with my gift. And then I was floored.

Inside of a delicately wrapped package was a HAND-MADE owl she'd made. Completely hand-made, there was nothing even remotely factory about it. There was also a hand-made little basket, with a scroll inside, The scroll read, in English "This is the year of the cock. So this owl is our mascot". Upon opening the card, she'd drawn all sorts of really cute and really skilled drawings inside, along with "Happy Birthday!" in English, and the one that really got to me, "If you are happy, I am happy, too."

I couldn't believe it. To get anything at all is extraordinary, but THIS?! It was simply amazing. Especially compared to how my ex had "remembered" my birthday just three days before. It was one hell of a contrast, and it'd be an understatement to say I was moved.

If you've read some of the other editorials on this site, you may know that I used to be a nice guy. I went out of my way to make people happy. That alone was enough for me, I didn't expect reciprocation. But, when I went through rough times, it was easy to see that those I did so much for were nowhere to be found. It hurt, a lot. Forced me to change who I was. No longer did I do things for people's happiness - I didn't do things for people at all. If I did, there was always the "What do I get out of it?" angle. And at times, I wasn't even remotely nice to the general population.

The anger faded eventually and I was able to become less of a jerk, but I still didn't do things for others unless they'd established themselves as a friend, and I saw some possible benefit for myself in it. But then my girlfriend came along, and slowly I opened up to her as I loved her. I went out of my way, pretty much all the time, for her (sacrificing a lot of time, money, among other things). She rarely if ever reciprocated, and it did bother me, but I held my ground and hoped one day she'd change and be more giving.

Then, that bitch hurt me in the worst possible way. I mean, I've been counselor to a lot of love problems, and I've heard a lot of downright shitty treatment, but I honestly can't think of anything worse than what she did. Yeah, she's a terrible person and I am in no way repsonsible for the break-up. But I was angry at myself. I'd done it again. I'd given my all for someone so wretched, so undeserving. More than her awfulness, that was eating me inside. I felt my heart turning black again, as I wondered what the point of ever being nice again was.

And now I've got Moeko's owl.

I sat there, trying to figure out why she would do this. The card alone must have taken hours to draw AND color. I can't possibly imagine how much effort she would have had to put into the owl and basket. Why? She knows I'm already very impressed with her. She knows I have no influence over her grades. There's nothing in it for her. Why? I would have been thrilled if she'd given me a store-bought card and Hello Kitty, but she went through the trouble to MAKE all that stuff! Why? And then I come back to the card - "If you are happy, I am happy, too."

It's how I used to be.

I sat at my desk holding the owl, and my eyes filled with tears. I felt any darkness looming over my heart starting to obliterate. I couldn't even think about my ex-girlfriend's treachery. All I could do was look at this owl - this amazing little owl, and choke back tears. For once, someone's kindness, someone's sacrifice, had not been wasted.

When I saw her the next day, I told her really, truly, honestly thank you. That I loved the gift and it moved me very much. She gave her usual sort-of awkward smile and said in English "I made it." I know. The magnitude of the gift, and the timing...I don't know if she will ever truly understand what she did for me. Maybe she doesn't have to.

"If you are happy, I am happy, too."

I dunno where my life's travels will take me. And I can't make any promises, or be certain of anything. But there is one thing I can guarantee. No matter where I end up, Moeko's owl will come with me. If I ever doubt myself, all I will need to do is look at it. And I will never, ever forget little Moeko. Never let the world change you Moeko, because you have the power to save the world. I know, because you saved me.





I kicked this, but it's about to disappear again, after only one response (cries), maybe lots of people did look at it, but I can only see the responses...But I got so, so emotional here.

[sweetheart]

31. It happens

One of the better, IMO:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=191&topic_id=2852

I figured that most of the best posts were from DU v.1 beyond the
archives. Frankly, i'd love to have a CD rom of all the posts i've
ever put on DU, just so i could see what some of them say... ones i've
long forgotten... and some good ones lost in the archives.

[ReadTomPaine]

34. Halloween Came Late

Originally posted November 6th. Not my best writing here but a lot of fun to compose nevertheless. Sank like a rock.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2622630

Halloween Came Late

I have a Ghost Story, but it is all true
I’m sorry to have to tell it to you

I dreamt a dream, deep in slumber
The night after election’s plunder

Concessions made, said through tears
Turned the dream to nightmare’s fears

Thieves run rampant, science dead
Thought police patrolling my bed

I slept on through the fitful night
Tormented by the future’s sight

But nightmares are funny things
Much like moods, they’re prone to swing

Instead of fear putting out the light
I found it burned brighter. I wanted to fight.

I dreamt of our fathers, mothers and kin
Lost in the battle, so that we might win

Standing by our side as we walked en-mass
And the ghosts of our heroes joined as we passed

From being alone, I was suddenly in a crowd
Instead of silence, the sound was quite loud

“We are the ghosts of democracy past
There were once many of us, you all are the last

“We have come to warn you the future is dark
But it is unwritten, the page still unmarked”

“We cannot stand with you” Paul stepped from the crowd
“I can’t drive the bus, but you can. Make me proud”

“We will speak with voices of those who stand here”
JFK said to me, and we all gave a cheer.

King said to us “You hold the future in your hands
You must be the shepherds to the promised land”

“Don’t let them beat you,” RFK tossed his hair
With a rakish young smile “We will always be there”

Roosevelt stood tall, on legs now made strong
“See what I’ve been saying about fear, all along?”

And calm entered me then, one I have never known
It has stayed with me since, become forged to my bone.

My rights may be taken, my body not free
But there are some things they cannot take from me.

Simple as this, from it everything grows.
People breathe it deep. It’s the truth everyone knows.

If we speak with the voices of Democrats past
And speak with conviction, we will not be the last

It won’t be easy. It won’t always be nice.
But history will judge us; it’s well worth the price.

So that is my story, please do take heed
The torch has been passed for us to take lead.

RTP

[blondeatlast]

35. Here's mine, still fresh, but sinking like a rock. We ignore the conflict

between Pakistan, India, and Afghanistan at our own peril. It has little to do with politcs and everything to do with personality--including Bunny's.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1915191&mesg_id=1915191

Thanks, and I'll happily look thru the other posts!

[question everything]

39. Found three

One just from yesterday:

Thank you, Andy, for showing us the way


We are Democrats. We rarely agree on anything. We do not support our leaders and our candidates at a whopping 80% plus the way the do. Even helping Andy with getting the funds needed for his operation caused a lot of angry posts and disagreement.

And yet, and yet, for two glorious weekends we did come together and we did collect a lot of money: $25,000 during each weekend. We gave fives and tens, many who lost their jobs, who are faced with mounting bills of their own. But we put our differences aside and we helped, some by merely "kicking" the threads to keep them on top.

The Internet made it easy for everyone to opine and to fight and to engage in debates and name calling and even in pornos that normally they would not do in a face to face situation. Yet, the fund drives made us more than just nodding and clicking. We dived into our resources and we helped the best we could. Indeed, this was our finest hour.

And you Andy, like Teri Schiavo, caused us to think about health care, about the cost of life, and death and accessibility.

It has been said that most people generate 90% of their medical costs during the last six months of their lives, and that opinion referred mostly to the elderly. And we are told that universal health care, like Canada, would end up rationing it. That health care are so expensive now that tax payers will revolt. Perhaps. I don't know. I do know that I first would like to eliminate the obscene compensations that "executives" in the insurance industry - I won't call it the health care industry - get. I first would like to eliminate the obscene amount that the pharmaceuticals are spending on TV ads for prescription drugs. $2 million for 30 seconds of Viagra during the Super Bowl?

Even for those of us that have health insurance. Take a look at your policy and you will find a life time limit, around $1 million. A woman once told me that once her mother reached the limit she could not get any more treatments and she died.

But I am glad that you escaped that "rationing." That we made sure that you got the best that you could. Perhaps it was futile, I don't know. But you wanted it and we gave it to you. It was your right to get the best treatment that was there.

And yet, and yet, it would not be enough for us to just be charged to demand health care for everyone. It is possible - I don't know - that even after we eliminated the obscene compensation and obscene TV ads - that with all our new steps in medicine that there will be a finite amount of dollars available.

And we will not be able to think about universal health care without looking at how we view death. It used to be that we all lived in the same place all our lives. Our homes included multi generations of family members and dying and death was a natural aspect of life.

But we moved away. And when that dreaded phone call arrives in the middle of the night, we rush back home and we want to do everything, we demand to have the best done, even though it is clear that our loved one has lived rich life and it is time to say good bye. None of us want to drag on like Teri Schiavo but when faced with a beloved family member or a friend - can we do this? We have had several heart wrenching posts here about DUers who had to "pull the plug."

So, yes, demand that no one be denied the best health care available, but we need to know of when to say good bye, with broken hearts and tears streaming down.

Would I donate again, knowing that all it bought him was few weeks? Yes, of course, In a heart beat, even though I have never heard of you until those long weekends. I am grateful for all the DUers - and many other liberals - who mobilized to help Andy. But most, I am grateful to sfexpat2000, flyarm, merh, skinner and so many others who facilitate these fund raising, who gave their all, and then some.

Go in peace, Andy. Your beautiful soul is finally free of your tortuous body but I feel for your friends and family who are left with a huge void in their hearts. We are hurting with you, there is nothing that we can say but only: we are so very very sorry.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4048964

=======

And I raised the same topic on March 31 - but forgot - found it now when i searched the archives

Watching people die

In previous generations, death was viewed as a natural part of life cycle. Before social security, each household had several generations living under one roof, including members of the extended family and they often died in their own bed, with family members gather to say their last goodbye.

Now we send the dying to hospitals and to hospices where we are demanding to use the best in technology that money can buy to delay the inevitable by a few months, even a few years, even when it is obvious that the dying person has long ceased to enjoy his former life; even when it is clear that the dying person can no longer recognize us or interact with us they he or she used to. And thus, we just sit and wait for the person to die.

There have been several studies that showed that individual medical costs soar during the last six months of a person's life.

And we, the family members, who often live miles away and see our family member only a few times a year, now demand that every measure be used to prolong the life by a few months or a few years.

And we sit and wait for the person to die. The family of Terri Schiavo should have said their goodbyes years ago, but for their own reasons, not the least is the refuse to accept that a child should die before the parent - her parents refused to let her go.

And now we are watching the Pope on his last journey. Again, instead of leaving him alone, we prop him in front of thousands in St. Peter's Square for a miserable spectacle of an old, sick man, who has had a rich life.

Why can't we accept the fact that death is a normal part of life cycle, accept it and concentrate on our lives before that? Why not keep loving relations with our family members before they start their last journey, and then demand expensive procedures to alleviate our guilt feeling?

Rest in peace Terri. What a sad story, what a waste.

======

No one replied to this one:

Simple hostility?

Not just for cyclists.

The Race Across America website reported about one of the women finalists and, almost as an aside, has this sentence: At 6.28 a.m. Valentin Zeller of Austria crossed the line after a ride, the low point of which was almost certainly being dowsed with gasoline by passing motorist near Camdenton, Missouri. http://www.raceacrossamerica.org/files/raam2005/2005_da...

And I was thinking that this fits into the hostility and polarization that RWers exhibit toward the rest of us. In general, I think that liberals prefer the human power activities of hiking, cycling, skiing camping and sail boating, while RWers like "power": big machines, big guns, big cars big boats..

Here in the Twin Cities, the parking lot of REI has the highest concentration, eve now, of Kerry/Edwards bumper stickers, while Cabella is clearly Bush country.

Trying to intimidate cyclists, mostly in red states, just fit into the hostility of the talk radio crowd. They have reached an age where they realize that they are not going to be as successful as they were hoping to and, of course, are looking for a scapegoat. And Limbaugh and his ilks are the perfect outlet for this: liberals! Hillary! Feminazi, etc.

Never mind that the jobs that normally would be theirs: unskilled factory ones, have disappeared thanks to the "market force" supporters.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4019396

[bloom]

40. Here you go ->

On the thread:

The real problem isn't the Bush regime, but the American people themselves

(in response to someone who thought the OP was demonizing people).


I think it might be like 75+ years ago and the public lynchings. You wouldn't think that such large numbers of people would go out and enjoy the spectacle. It's mind boggling really - you don't want to believe it.

I think maybe today's torture culture is like that only it is outsourced to Guantanamo and Abu Graib. It's mind boggling that people (the Wall Street Journal kinds of people as well as FOX watchers and Rush Limbaugh listeners) justify this inhumane treatment of people. I think it's like the lynching mentality. People/society is not improving - the people who want to do this are just being more sophisticated about it (using psychologists to tell them what will upset people the most).

The scary thought I just had is maybe Rumsfeld, Luntz, Rove know what we don't - maybe they know that some people approve of (and it's difficult to even write - but think of the lynching crowds) "enjoy" the fact that our country is doing horrible things to people. As long as they feel safe in their own lives.

It's depressing to think about.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4054600#4056265

----