I don't know how to answer this.

[knitter4democracy]

My husband and I have a good friend from college who is now in seminary to become a Catholic priest. He's gone ultra-conservative, which wasn't that much of a suprise, actually. Usually, I just ignore his rabid pro-life stuff in his e-mails and all, but today, this was what I got:

"No... the reason for my excitement is that I have just come from having lunch with the Schindler family. Robert, Mary and Bobby Schindler. These are the parents and brother of Terri Schindler-Schiavo. A scholarship has been setup here at Ave Maria in Terri's name, and they were here for the announcement of that. As president of Students For Life, the Vice-President for University Relations wanted them to meet with me and a group of students. They are all
very nice, and are doing, in my opinion, remarkably well, all things considered. Despite that fact that their daughter was killed by her husband, in cooperation with the state of Florida, they are going to use this horror and turn it into a memorial and a fight for the Truth and Life that was deprived from their precious daughter. Dear Jesus, bless and protect the Schindlers in this fight against the Culture of Death!

So the struggle for Life goes on. As Father Pavone is quick to point out, the battle is won, we just have to keep on fighting!"

I'm just sick. He's an intelligent, wonderful person, and he really believes that Mr. Schiavo killed his wife and that the Schindlers are the best people in the world. I know he got mad at my sig line on my e-mail (same as here: Knitters Against Bush), but I thought he was kidding, the way he wrote it.

I don't want to lose him as a friend, but have I lost him already?

[displacedtexan]

1. Sounds like...

your friend has either chosen a political career track, or he's been chosen by a particular political machine within the church.

Office politics don't stop at the church door.

How does he feel about the death penalty and war?

[knitter4democracy]

2. Honestly, I've been nervous to bring it up.

I'm pretty sure he's against the death penalty from something he wrote last year, but he's all for Bush, so I'm confused.

He asked me in an e-mail why I had my anti-Bush sig line, and I e-mailed back that we probably shouldn't get into it, as I'm a peace and justice Christian, knowing he'll know what that term means. He hasn't e-mailed me back personally since.

Should I just call him and tell him that I really need a break from his list if he's going to spew that kind of lies and hatred? I just can't take any more demonizing of a husband who was in a difficult position and canonizing of a woman who was obviously dead long ago. I just can't.

He's going to be a priest, and he is ignoring what he's learned about people and about life. It's far more complicated than he's acknowledging, and he's starting to sound like the kind of Christian he used to make fun of in college (we all went to a small evangelical Christian college together). I know he had a rough time after college and that his conversion to the Catholic Church had something to do with that, but now he just sounds scary.

[koopie57]

5. I understand your dilema (sp)

but I think back to the movie "Our Father" where the guy said you don't run from a priest.

Sure, he is becoming a priest, but he is also a human who has faults. Becoming a priest doesn't make him above common sense. I think I would tell him honestly how you feel, tell him you will miss his friendship, but that as of now you are unable to understand his point of view and that you need a break.

That is what I would do, but of course, you know what is best for you.

[knitter4democracy]

7. That's a good idea.

He's in this really conservative seminary (sounds like Opus Dei to me), and maybe he's just fallen for the brainwashing.

I really need a break, though, if he's going to e-mail me crap like that.

[Dorian Gray]

11. Is he in the

Legionnaires of Christ Order? They're pretty militant and conservative?

I think that you should tell him, as a friend, that you don't want to discuss politics. If he continues to send you things in order to "evangelize," then you have carte blanche to stop reading and responding to his e-mails.

I have some conservative friends, and they know not to send me their BS emails. Of course, sometimes I think that I have ADD because I can't get past line one of most chain emails.

[knitter4democracy]

13. He's at Ave Maria in Florida.

I don't think he's in that order, but I don't know. I know he's the president of their pro-life club and very active with the administration and all.

He sounds like one of the seminarians in that article (Harper's?) about the bishop of Colorado. Okay, that made no sense, but when I read it, those guys sounded like Micah.

[zanne]

15. Does he know about your political philosophy?

If he doesn't, then he's just talking to another friend in the conservative movement. We have to let these people know that we don't share their views. It doesn't have to nasty. We can be polite but firm. If people don't ever disagree out of a sense of politeness or not wanting to "rock the boat", then these people will think that the majority agree with them.

[DistressedAmerican]

3. I Cut People Like That OUT OF MY LIFE Long Ago!

People like that do not make good friends...

[ClintonTyree]

4. He's a member of the "culture of stupidity".....

these people have lost all contact with reality. Did he READ the autopsy report, or do they all think that was some sort of grand conspiracy to "kill" Terri as well? She was already dead, the "spark of life" was gone and without extraordinary measures to keep her body alive, she'd have died long ago.

Drop him like the unenlightened fool he is. You can't reason with these people.

[smoogatz]

6. Sounds like he needs an intervention

Maybe you need to hire two or three large men to bundle him into a van late at night, whisk him to a safe house, and make him watch "Baywatch" reruns until he's reduced to a sobbing heap on the floor. Once he's hit bottom, things will gradually improve.

[knitter4democracy]

9. Yeah, I don't see that working.

He always was odd about sex. I mean, he obviously liked looking at women and would even talk about it, but he didn't date much and didn't seem to trust women all that much. He didn't seem to be gay (it was dangerous at our college to even seem to be GLBT), but I could be wrong.

That's why I wasn't that suprised he wanted to become a Catholic priest, actually. It doesn't make sense of his fetus worship, though . . .

[Divernan]

8. "Friends" like him see people like you as targets/resources

When someone becomes a True Believer, their world becomes black and white. Others are either targets to be converted or resources to be exploited. Or both.
A real friendship is based on mutual respect and caring. How can you respect this man anymore? Look at him as he really is, right this very moment, and not as you recall him from your college years. If you met this man at a social gathering and he voiced his opinions on issues which are basic to what kind of society and world we live in, wouldn't you be offended and repulsed? He apparently finds your beliefs abhorent.

Has he really changed that much or isn't it that you just didn't know him, except at some superficial social level? You said that the fact that he has gone ultra-conservative wasn't that much of a surprise.

And speaking as a lapsed Catholic, I question the motivation of anyone who enters a seminary of today's scandal ridden American Catholic Church. You can do a lot of good in this world through relief and other social service organizations, and in other churches which see celibacy as abnormal. And these organizations face realities in regard to birth control, AIDS, abortion, poverty, etc. in ways the Catholic Church, with the exception of some missionary efforts does not.

I was just visiting Vermont (went to my first gay wedding) and we stopped in a protestant church in Stowe - mainly to enjoy the beautiful and simple New England architecture. The lobby had a wonderful display of dozens of photos of the African village and its children this small Church was providing lots of aid too. There were touching letters from children to members of the congregation. This church was also sending care packages and letters to troops in Iraq, and there were letters of thanks which would break your heart. One of the people in my group markets religious goods to Catholic churches in several states and visits each church he sells to. I asked him if he had ever known any Catholic parish to be so directly involved with impoverished third world communities and he said he had not seen a single example of this.

[knitter4democracy]

12. I've known Catholic churches that are, but you're right.

It's not that many. I taught in Catholic schools for three years while my husband was in med school (only teaching jobs I could find with no local connections), and the schools were doing much good and were involved with a local peace and justice group. Of course, Beaumont, where I taught for two years, lost one of their sisters (Sr. Dorothy Kazel, OSU) in El Salvador as one of the four martyred church women. For them, it's personal.

He always leaned conservative in college, and in my experience, when people like that have all sorts of crappy things happen to them in life, they get more conservative. That's why I wasn't all that suprised.

You're right, though. If I met him now, I'd be repulsed. He used to be such a great guy, but he's just been sucked down into this muck and is happily wallowing in it. He still truly loves his family and friends, but I wonder what he would do if he were truly confronted with the logical extension of his beliefs.

[phylny]

10. The only thing you can do to salvage the friendship, if it's

important to you, is to e-mail him back and say something to the effect that you disagree with his premise that Mrs. Schiavo was killed, and you would appreciate it if he did not e-mail these kinds of things to you again.

[knitter4democracy]

14. I think I'm going to.

I know he'd be horrified that I hang out here, too. :evilgrin:

Why do I think he'd have a different opinion if he'd ever been married? It just seems to me that it's awfully easy for him to judge Mr. Schiavo when he's never even theoretically been in that position and never will be.

[knitter4democracy]

16. I wrote out a long response.

It sounds angry and nasty, though, which would just turn him off. I doubt he'd listen to me anyway, considering he always thought I was weird in college. He probably remembers me that way (I'm not sure I've changed all that much, anyway). Ugh. This is just hard.

[Godai Kyoko]

17. This is his way of saying goodby

It is never smart to cut people out of your life. But as llfe moves on, so do we. I would memory hole all his political stuff. His world view is so far gone that you don't even have a common language of political discussion anymore, so just drop it. If he tells you about a fun wedding, or a funny story, engage and be polite. If he wants a friend, he will do friend stuff. If he wants a political convert, he will drop you too.

Don't sever the threads that make life supportable..... but don't dwell in yesterday either.

[knitter4democracy]

18. My mom said the same thing.

She said not to get off his e-mail list but just to delete them after reading them, seeing if he makes any progress over the years. She said that, as long as he's in the seminary, he's going to be like that. Once he gets out and real life smacks him in the face, he'll probably change. I'm hoping she's right.

I'm going to wait on my response and might not send anything. It's not worth wasting the time he'll want to spend on back and forth arguing.