My Trip to the Land of Wovoka

[H2O Man]

Part One: Awake

"Awake
Shake dreams from your hair
My pretty child, my sweet one
Choose the day and choose the sign of your day
The day's divinity
First thing youe see.

A vast radiant beach in a cool jeweled moon
Couples naked race down by its quiet side
And we laugh like soft, mad children
Smug in the wooly cotton brains of infancy.
The music and voices are all around us.
Choose, they croon, the Ancient Ones
The time has come again.
Choose now, they croon
Beneath the moon
Beside an ancient lake.
Enter again the sweet forest,
Enter the hot dream,
Come with us.
Everything is broken up and dances.

Indians scattered on dawn's highway bleeding
Ghosts crowd the young child's fragile eggshell mind.
Indian, Indian what did you die for?
Indian says nothing at all.

Gently they stir, gently rise.
The dead are newborn awakening
With ravaged limbs and wet souls
Gently they sigh in rapt funeral amazement
Who called these souls to dance?"
-- James Douglas Morrison; An Amrican Prayer

In the past two weeks, DUers have been witness to significant changes in the political & social landscape. Good and bad. Encouraging and discouraging. The Supreme Court; the Plame case; violence in Iraq and Afghanistan and London. The death of a voice in the wilderness who found community on DU.

The roller coaster of emotions has been evident on a number of threads that have been on General Discussion in the past 48 hours. Everyone reacts in an individual way. I have spent some time in the woods behind my home: it's too wet to heat rocks for a sweat lodge, but it has been pleasant to sit and listen to the rain.

I surrounded myself with thoughts on one topic. There had been a discussion about the advantages of either considering -- or ignoring -- what the militant Islamists who may be responsible for the London bombings think. We could expand that to include what goes on in the minds of others who advocate violence to advance their goals. Do we ignore them? Decide that they are too evil to examine, except in death?

Or, would it be possible to examine, however briefly, what they think? Could it help us in war? In peace? I thought of two quotes that we might consider.

Part Two: A World's View

"If you wish to conduct offensive war you must know the men employed by the enemy. Are they wise or stupid, clever or clumsy? Having assessed their qualities, you prepare appropriate measures."
-- "The Art of War"; Sun Tzu; Oxford Press;1963 (translation); p.148

"Here is the true meaning and value of compassion and nonviolence when it helps us to see the enemy's point of view, to hear his questions, to know his assessment of ourselves. For from his view we may indeed see the basic weaknesses of our own condition, and if we are mature, we may learn and grow and profit from the wisdom of the brothers who are called the opposition."
-- "A Time to Break Silence": Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.; 4-4-67

In both war and peace, it is important to understand the thinking of your opposition or enemy. It is equally important in attempting to utterly destroy that enemy, or to find some form of resolution to those problems which divide you from that enemy.

It is not my goal to say that as individuals we must seek in every case to make peace with our enemies. Nor would I claim that war is never warrented. One would have to suffer from delusions to assume, for example, that Usama bin Laden will ever sit opposite an American president and discuss making the world a better place. Yet it would seem that as Americans, we are capable of sitting down with people we describe as radical Islamists, and potentially reducing tensions between our countries. If Rumsfeld could shake hands with Saddam, and President Bush can kiss a Saudi "prince," it is not unpatriotic to at least consider the thoughts of those who identify themselves as the enemies of America.

I note that it is the Usama bin Ladens and George W. Bushes who take -- like Hitler -- what Thomas Merton called a stance of "the unforgivableness of sin" built upon "the central dogma of the irreversibility of evil." It is not just the "top leader" who reflects this belief in a sick society: Merton points out that Eichmann, by pleading obedience to the Nazi system, reflects a "deep faith in an irreversible order which could not be changed but only obeyed."

Merton compares this lack of individual responsibility in thinking to the wisdom of St. Thomas Aquinas, who recognized "evil" as not only reversible, but as possessing the potential to be turned into good. Aquinas taught that "sin" is in and of itself "punishment." He noted that those who "consider themselves happy and whose sense of power depends on the idea that they are beyong suffering any evil are not able to have mercy on others." I believe that he was describing "leaders" who send individuals and armies to crush other enemies, without ever considering the possibility that there is another way that is potentially available.

Part Three: The Way to Gandhi

"The awakening of the Indian mind in Gandhi was not simply the awakening of his own spirit to the the possibilities of a distinctly Hindu form of 'interior life.' ... Gandhi realized that the people of India were awakening in him. The masses who had been totally silent for thousands of years had now found a voice in him. It was the spiritual consciousness of a people that awakened in the spirit of one person. But the message of the Indian spirit, of the Indian wisdom, was not for India alone It was for the entire world. Hence Gandhi's message was valid for India and for himself in so far as it represented the awaking of a new world.

"Yet this renewed spiritual consciousness of India was entirely different from the totalitarian and nationalist consciousness that came alive in the West and in the East (Japan) to the point of furious and warlike vitality. The Indian mind that was awakening in Gandhi was inclusive, not exclusive. It was at once Indian and universal. It was not a mind of hate, of intolerance, of accusation, or rejection, of division. It was a mind of love, of understanding, of infinite capaciousness. Where the extreme nationalisms of Western Fascism and of Japan were symptoms of paranoid fury, exploding into alienation, division, and destruction, the spirit which Gandhi discovered in himself was reaching out to unity, love, and peace. It was a spirit which was, he believed, strong enough to heal every division.

"In Gandhi's mind, non-violence was not simply a political tactic which was supremely useful and efficacious in liberating his people from foreign rule, in order that India might then concentrate on realizing its own national identity. On the contrary, the spirit of non-violence sprang from an inner realization of spiritual unity in himself. The whole Gandhian concept of non-violent action and satyagraha is incomprehsible if it is thought to be a means of unity rather than as the fruit of inner unity already achieved."
-- "Gandhi and the One-Eyed Giant"; Thomas Merton; New Directions; 1964.

Part Four: Why Do They Hate Us? And What Do They Want?

Michael Scheuer is a retired senior U.S. intelligence official, with nearly 20 years with the CIA. He studied Afghanistan, South Asia, and Usama bin Laden. He authored two important books: "Through Our Enemies' Eyes," and "Imperial Hubris."

Scheuer contests President Bush's saying that militant Islamists hate us "for our freedoms." Rather, he notes, that "while there may be a few militant Muslims out there who would blow up themselves and others because they are offended by McDonald's restaurants, Iowa's early presidential primary, and the seminude, fully pregnant Demi Moore on Esquire's cover, they are exactly that: few, and no threat at all to U.S. national security. The focused and lethal threat posed to U.S. national security arises not from Muslims being offended by what America is, but rather from their plausible perception that the things they most love and value -- God, Islam, their brethern, and Muslim lands -- are being attacked by America. What we as a nation do, then, is the key casual factor in our confrontation with Islam. It is, I believe, the Muslim perception that the things they love are being intentionally destroyed by America that engenders Islamic hatred toward the United States, and that simultaneously motivates a few Muslims to act alone and attack U.S. interests; a great many more to join organizations like al Qaeda and its allies; and massive numbers to support those organizations ..."
--"Imperial Hubris"; Michael Scheuer; 2004; pages 9-10

Scheuer lists on page 241 the six U.S. policies that Usama bin Laden has repeatedly identified as anti-Muslim, and which can only lead to more death and destruction on all sides. They are:
1- US support for Israel that keeps Palestinians oppressed.
2- US (and allies') troops on the Arabian Peninsula.
3- US occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq.
4- US support for China, India, and Russia in their fight against Muslim militants.
5- US pressure on Arab energy "sources" to keep prices low for maximum US consumption.
6- US support for the most corrupt, apostate Muslim governments.

Scheuer makes clear that our nation has two choices: either engage in a war that leads to the total destruction of them or us; or try to find some resolutions to the problems caused by US policies in the Middle East. The choices are between Sun Tzu's military, or Martin Luther King's militancy.

Part Five: A New World

"We will either have a new world, or a new world war." -- Gandhi

In his 1968 book, "Earth House Hold," Gary Snyder wrote of the "memories of a Golden Age -- the Garden of Eden -- the Age of the Yellow Ancestor -- (which) were genuine expressions of civilization and its discontents. Harking back to societies where men and women were more free with each other; where there was more singing and dancing; where there were no serfs and priests and kings.
"Projected into the future time in Christian culture, this dream of the Millennium became the soil of many heresies. It is a dream handed down right to our own time -- of ecological balance, classless society, social and economic freedom. It is actually one of the possible futures open to us. To those who stubbornly argue 'it's against human nature,' we can only patiently reply that you must know your own nature before you can say this. Those who have gone into their own natures deeply have, for several thousand years now, been reporting that we have nothing to fear if we are willing to train ourselves, to open up, explore and grow."

It is important that we love and not hate. Just as people like Gandhi and King rode the energy of the masses' love and positive energy, people like Bush and bin Laden ride hatred and negative energy. Do not hate. Do not seek revenge. Look for opportunities to create unity. Look for the Gandhi and the Martin Luther King inside you. Use that strength to oppose the Bush war in Iraq. Let's send a message to the world.

[Mythsaje]

1. Very thoughtful

and thought-provoking.

I think it is very important to try to find common ground to meet one's enemies on. I spent a few years trading posts with conservatives and libertarians, and found a lot of common ground...enough that many of them respected me despite the fact that we had very different views on some things.

Ideologies are distinct for each individual, and are formed by what a person learns and how s/he learns it--be it at the feet of a parent, a pastor, a teacher, or through the 'school of hard knocks.'

Each person carries his or her past around with him as if it were a heavy bundle on his back, being the sum of his experiences and learning in this lifetime.

The greatest challenge for some is the realization that each person has a burden of his own and, in trying on the weight of another's burden, one can learn a little bit more of the world than one's own past allows.

I myself learned that I enjoy hearing other perspectives on things, even if I disagreed with them. I have found wisdom amongst the Conservatives, the Libertarians, the Christians, the Pagans, and the Atheists, as well as among the Liberals. The one thing I try very hard not to do is to allow my emotional reaction to things I disagree with to grow so strong I can't see my way to rationally examine them. Once emotional distaste has grown too strong, I might as well give up the debate.

I also don't debate people who can't set their own emotional responses aside and consider everything I have to add to the conversation with the full weight of their ability to reason.

I am reminded occasionally of a button I saw in a shop window in Haight-Asbury back in '87. "Don't try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig."

Even people with fundamental disagreements can set aside the burden of their pasts and assumptions and find a place where they can meet as equals--if they choose to do so.

[H2O Man]

4. "Don't try to teach a pig to sing ...."

I like that.

We no longer have the luxury of hating without there being very negative consequences. We must recognize that politicians -- who are generally in power only because they have learned to harness hatred and fear -- are incapable of "solving" the conflicts between people. They are dependent upon increasing those conflicts. And the angrier and more hostile we become, the more we feed their power.

We need Gandhi power. We should shut down the Bush/Cheney war in Iraq by use of Gandhian nonviolent tactics in the United States.

[Straight Shooter]

5. I have a T-shirt with the pig slogan.

It must be 25 years old by now. It hangs in my closet, as a reminder that nothing is accomplished by an exercise in futility.

My T-shirt says: "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig."

I guess it's my basic philosophy :)

[bonito]

30. Thank You.

Peace

[Me.]

2. I Believe We Must Know Our Enemies

but not necessarily act like them. What is important is to define who our enemies are. The administration and those of their cabal? Of course and in time the world and history will define them as enemies to all, us and the entirety of world, to the planet earth itself who they use and abuse. Others are the extremists who follow their leader blindly. But what about those Americans often referred to as sheeple, and by the *ush family as fodder, those "Smug in the wooly cotton brains of infancy", whose naviety in the matters of recent years have left us exposed to the great dangerous evil that threatens to engulf us? It may be, as each day brings another "event" they will wake from their afternoon naps to see the nighmare their carelessness has helped to bring about. Perhaps they will join us in stopping this foe and that will be our common ground, like Bob Barr and the ACLU, for it is at our own peril to let our undoing continue unabated.

[H2O Man]

3. If the people of India

were part of Gandhi's consciousness, and contributed to his growth as he contributed to theirs .... then it is inescapable that the hatred in the Middle East is feeding the negative strength of Usama bin Laden, just as hatred in America feeds the monstor in the White House.

From 1 John 3:15, we read" Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer." But this is not limited to Christianity: it is a common thought among religions and among the non-religious who live by related systems of ethics.

There is the saying by Toyohiko Kagawa: "Men who fear to make the sacrifice of love will have to fight." That is meant in the most literal sense. Those who would sacrifice for love must by definition sacrifice their hatred; those who refuse to sacrifice hatred for love must by definition do the exact opposite -- and to sacrifice the potential of love (not meant in the romantic sense) in order to hate will indeed have to fight.

[coeur_de_lion]

6. leave it to you, dear H2O

to write something really beautiful, that so perfectly expresses how people feel. Or at least how I feel today -- I can't speak for the whole community. I was mulling these kinds of ideas around in my head all day, but didn't express them; thank you for doing it for me.

It's hard not to hate, it's hard not to wish bad things on the people we disagree with. It's hard not to wish that evil things happen to the * administration. It's hard not to hate the terrorists who hurt and killed all those people in London. But that's exactly what we have to do. Love has to start somewhere. Might as well be here.

DU is the kind of community where wonderful ideas like peace and love and nonviolence can take root. To heck with those who want to make war on one another. We can make peace *here.*

We wondered what you were up to all day. Now we know. I'm delighted to find that you spent your time so thoughtfully. As always.

:loveya:

[H2O Man]

15. "It's hard not to hate..."

Yes, exactly. Exactly. Yet it is far harder to hate. It may seem easy at the moment, but it takes its toll.

[coeur_de_lion]

31. I think it is a difficult thing for people to realize,

myself included, that it takes far more energy to hate than it does to love and accept everybody. No matter what they do. So if we follow the teachings of great men like Martin Luther King, and Gandhi, and the Dalai Lama, we would love President Bush and even Dick Cheney. That is so far-fetched for those of us who know the real scoop about them and their his band of crooks and manipulators. I confess I haven't managed it yet. I may not hate them, but I am always angry at them. All the same, I don't wish them any harm. I just want them gone.

I'm getting better at forgiveness and love as I get older. I find that when someone does something truly awful to me, that affects my life in a very negative way, I can stay angry and hateful only for a few weeks. After awhile I don't have the desire to be angry anymore.

It seems harder to love everyone but it really isn't. I'm happier when I can manage it.

[H2O Man]

33. We must recognize

as Martin did that the word "love" has three distinct levels of meaning. We are not expected to love in the romantic sense; nor in the sense of family & friends. To "love" a Bush/Cheney enemy is to love humanity, and to recognize that beneath Cheney's snapping turtle exterior is a spark of humanity being smothered by disease. We can not feel affection for that disease ..... only the spark.

[coeur_de_lion]

34. Well said.

Diseased is probably the most apt description of that bunch that I've heard in a long time.

Just like alcoholism is a disease, so are hatred and greed. We have to love those we know who are alcoholics and drug addicts, even if we hate the disease and what it does to them. So I guess we can look at Cheney in a similar way; love the humanity in him. Despise the disease of hate and greed that has consumed his soul.

It is a sin that a man of Cheney's abilities has gone over to the dark side. With all the energy he puts into his evil machinations, think of the wonderful and good things he could do. No one ever accused the man of being stupid. If only he could use that (evidently) fine brain to do some good in the world -- even for ONE DAY.

I don't honestly have any wish to see Cheney, Rove, Bush, or even Judy Miller behind bars. I only want their evil to stop.

[frictionlessO]

7. Thank you for this today H2O, I really needed to find some unity tonight

and you provided it.

[existentialist]

8. very refreshing

I'm glad that I happened across this thread, and read all of it.

No answers promised, of course, that would be superficial and (Bush like I guess)--but a sane approach to the problems that beset us. It's too easy to just get sucked into hating Bush and the neocons--but hating them indeed fuels the energies that make their politics work, and the same is true of Osama bin Laden and the Taliban.

If we could work through the cold war with the Russians and the Chinese without actually pushing the button, than there must be some hope here too.

[ClayZ]

9. Thank you!

I needed to remember again!



:kick:

[Donailin]

10. Merton

one of my favorite Catholic writers. Seeds of Contemplation and Zen and the Birds of Appetite are forever on my nightstand.

>>Merton compares this lack of individual responsibility in thinking to the wisdom of St. Thomas Aquinas, who recognized "evil" as not only reversible, but as possessing the potential to be turned into good. Aquinas taught that "sin" is in and of itself "punishment." He noted that those who "consider themselves happy and whose sense of power depends on the idea that they are beyong suffering any evil are not able to have mercy on others." I believe that he was describing "leaders" who send individuals and armies to crush other enemies, without ever considering the possibility that there is another way that is potentially available.<<



Christ explains in his parable,

"Those who have been forgiven much love much"

I would add that those who have been forgiven much introspect and reflect on how they arrived at their own sinfulness in the first place, thereby making it much easier to be less condemning and more empathetic to those who are still stuck in the world of unforgiveness as well as unforgivable actions.

There were a few threads that I read today that reminded me of myself. I have ptivately doubted those who I shouldn't have doubted and I have privately cheered on those whom I should have doubted. When you experience both sides of the fence, it is easier to choose the side of compassion and forgiveness -- even for those who seem to be unworthy. Treat people as though they are worthy and they will rise to the occasion. Treat them as though they are unforgivale and they will fulfill your expectations. We all struggle, we all want to be righteous. But when that righteousness comes at the expense of crushing others, we become like the pharisee -- forgiving little, loving little. Not making the world a more peaceful place, not bringing others towards God's mercy.

[H2O Man]

14. I find Merton

to be one of the most fascinating thinkers. While he is easy to read, I can go back and re-read his works and always learn something new.

[G_j]

11. great post

speaking of Native Americans, I often find myself 'meditating' on the story of the Peacekeeper of the Iroquois Confederacy, many of whose ideals found their way into the American version of democracy.

Believing that peace is possible because all humans are endowed with a birthright of "the good mind".
He even approached the most feared and hated man and made gave him the highest responsibility in the implementation of the great peace.

Your post brought this to mind again.

[H2O Man]

13. The PeaceMaker and his

assistant, the historic Hianawatha, worked for two years to "comb the snakes" from the first Tadodaho's hair. And of course, what the snakes represented were anger and hatred. They had twisted the Tadodaho's mind to such an extent it effected his body. He could not hear words correctly -- and we have all had that experience .... not only of having been frustrated by a friend/relative who was so angry they could not process what we were saying .... and many of us have had the experience of being thatmad. It is, of course, unhealthy.

Hatred is a parasite that eats upon our other qualities. It infects us with a sickness of mind that destroys all that is good about us. There is too much hatred in the world now. Too much in the USA. Too much on DU now. We do not honor anyone by hating.

The PeaceMaker found that there was one message the Tadodaho could comprehend. It was the singing of the smallest bird. The smallest bird's song was able to bring a moment's peace to the disturbed mind of a man who was an evil wizard who dined on human flesh.

The next Haudenosaunee prophet would be Handsome Lake, who also had lived in a gutter for years. There are few great people that started off leading pure lives. Human redemption, not in an other-worldly sense, but as part of the human community, can occure. But not with either organized or unorganized hatred.

[G_j]

18. beautiful

thanks for filling in the details so eloquently.
It was too late last night for me to deal with the spelling of various names in this story. :-)

As important as Handsome Lake was, I've talked to a number of people who feel he went a little off track with his Christian imagery, especially the references to punishment and a hell.

btw, I met the modern Tadodaho about 10 years ago, Leon Shenandoah.
He was quite old then. I'm not sure if he still holds that position.

Anyway....
I think there is so much to be learned here.
All the great teachers of Peace were on the same page with this.
Love your enemy

[H2O Man]

20. Leon was

my uncle. (My 2nd cousin was here with his 14-year old yesterday. His son was amazed to see pictures of his father with the man who was pictured in National Geographic, and the Wisdom Keeper's book.) He passed away a few years ago. I was the door-keeper at the Old Long House at his funeral. There were thousands of people at Onondaga that day, and of course not everyone was familiar with traditions.

On spellings: there are many variations on any of these. Mine are no more or less correct than any others.

You are right about Handsome Lake, of course. There are still divisions created by his New Word, or his Code. But even the "old school" people are impressed with his vision, if not his interpretation of what followed.

In 1798, for those who do not know, Handsome Lake came out of a coma that was induced by alcohol poisoning. He told of being lifted by Four Directions, and shown parts of the future. He predicted with amazing accuracy many of the environmental crises that we face today, and in particular focused on water.

[G_j]

22. H2O Man

I now understand why you convey such a depth of feeling for this.


I don't really discuss this much, but I feel somewhere in my heart of hearts that the Peace Keeper's mission continues, and that one day the great roots of peace will indeed spread to all people. Of course this is the exact opposite of what is happening now.
Certainly I am not speaking of other people 'converting' to a religion, but awakening to values such as those you discuss here and in your OP.

Hey, perhaps we have met. Have you ever attended a "Wisdom Keeper" conference in NC?
Tom Porter also attended a number of these. What a special man he is!

[H2O Man]

25. I have not

been to any of the conferences in NC. But Tom Porter is one of my favorite people.

Chief Paul Waterman was planning some reburials in the Carolinas at the time of his death. Sometime if you are interested, I'll send you some papers you'll enjoy. But now, my electricity is about to go off for four hours!

[G_j]

28. I will look forward to it

enjoy your electricity-free time! :-)

[Beam Me Up]

12. Kicked and nominated.

Much too exhausted to reply to this great post at this late hour. Besides, I'd be hard pressed to find anything worthy of adding.

[im10ashus]

16. Thank you, H20 Man!

That's a beautiful post and very well said. We needed to hear that.

[H2O Man]

19. Thank you.

I occasionally wonder if the things I say make much sense at all. I felt particularly anxious after posting this yesterday, and getting no response, until I paid two friends to say something nice about it. (grin) But sometimes what seems obvious to one person, makes little or no sense to the next person. I appreciate knowing that some people know what I was trying to say. Thank you again.

[im10ashus]

21. You are most welcome.

We seem to forget sometimes that we need to seek a certain bit of unity with our "enemies" and find common ground. I can find several enlightened points in your thread that only a true patriot of the human spirit, like Gandhi and MLK, could muster. It's tough when we face such adversity in our lives, be it politically or religiously motivated, to not fight back in a violent manner. We need to remember that we are all human. Wouldn't it be amazing if instead of trying to obtain peace in our after life that we achieved a bit of heaven on earth? What would it take for us to lay down our arms and face each other with words instead of swords?


Edited to add: :kick: and nominated! :-)

[H2O Man]

24. a few quotes from Gandhi:

"When the practice of ahimsa becomes universal, God will reign on earth as He does in heaven."

"Democratic government is a distant dream so long as non-violence is not recognized as a living force, an inviolable creed, not a mere policy."

"What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destructin is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?"

[im10ashus]

26. Words to live by, IMHO.

Also, I am currently reading your blog. You are inspiring. I think everyone should bookmark your blog and seek it out daily. You rock! Sorry about your accident. How's the back?

[H2O Man]

27. I need to get back

to work on my blog.

My back is not much fun. I need to swim daily. The creek here has a beautiful waterfalls and pool, but it is very cold. So I'm getting a pool. The electric work gets done in a few minutes, and I'll be without electric for 4 hours. Maybe I can write something for the old blog!!

[im10ashus]

29. It's an amazing piece of work.

Waterfalls and pools. Nice! Where in NY? Manhattan here and the idea of solitude with nature is almost foreign to me. I live half a block from Central Park and without that I think I would most certainly go mad in this city. It's nice to lay under a tree with a book and feel a million miles away from the craziness that's actually only a few hundred yards away.

[H2O Man]

32. The intersection

of Chenango, Delaware, and Otsego Counties, near where the Unadilla River meets the Susquehanna. It is a beautiful part of North America.

[im10ashus]

35. That's a beautiful area.

Loving your Blog btw. Just finished the Hurricane portion. Just amazing.

[H2O Man]

36. The Hurricane

is an amazing man. If he could forgive those who took 20 years of his life, including his children's childhoods years, than I think others could grasp ahold of that principle. It's funny: a couple of the people on DU who talk about being so very angry strike me as the same guys who have likely never been in a fight, and surely never won one. (One likes to tell me to "shut up"!) I think it's singular that the strongest men forgive, and those who have never been tough beyond their fantasies (a quality we see in Bush, Cheney, and Rove) are afraid that forgiveness would signify weakness. Singular, indeed.

[im10ashus]

37. I totally agree, H2O Man!

I've been told off in no uncertain terms just for putting in my viewpoints. It's taken me by surprise but I just shake it off and let the thread sink. I grew up in a tough neighborhood and had my share of fights. Kids stuff really. But it thickened my skin. I've been chased down the street by gangs of boys for simply taking ballet and acting lessons. I've always been able to apologize when I was wrong and forgive some serious wrongs made against me. It's just a part of life to forgive. At least it should be.

[H2O Man]

38. I've spoken many times

about my nephew being brutally attacked by a gang of skin-heads, who resented a brown-skinned high school student getting media attention for his athletic skills. They left him for dead. This occured before I was disabled in an auto accident. I understand hatred , and I know rage. When I saw my nephew, I felt the urge to go and take care of business. And when I say that I could do a fuck of a lot of damage, even to a few people at the same time, believe me. Believe me.

Yet I knew that some young men were considering the same thoughts. My nephew's friends were talking about going over to the gang's hometown, and doing a shake up. My brother-in-law and I spent a lot of hours in those weeks, talking to those young men, and telling them not to seek revenge that way.

Members of that same gang would savagely beat some Asian-American students at SUNY-Binghamton the following year. They again left a victim for dead. But there were never serious legal consequences.

Hate is hate. Those who attack a brown-skinned kid will attack a yellow-skinned kid will attack a kid that enjoys dance, and will attack a kid who likes theater. And when the adults in the legal system turn a blind eye, they also participate on the assault.

One thing is clear: people have the right to self-defense. I am not advocating being victimized. But I am talking about not participating in cycles of ever-increasing violence. There are alternatives to hatred and violence.

[im10ashus]

39. OMG!

That's just so horrible. It's always hard to hear about the violence, especially when it's based on skin color, sexual orientation, ethnicity, what have you. I can relate to the anger you must have felt. It's so hard to suppress the rage when it hits so close to home. I've had so many instances growing up that I was certain I would do some serious damage to someone when it came to someone harming my sisters and my brother. We all luckily survived the crime ridden neighborhood where we spent our formative years, which is no small feat. I've had friends in high school shot for just walking down the street in the wrong neighborhood. It's not changed much over the years, that neighborhood, but I had a lot of good memories from there as well. Violence begets violence and so it is with hate. I'm glad we have both survived such intolerance.

[H2O Man]

41. DUers should support

the Southern Poverty Law Center. It does a remarkable job of keeping track of hate groups, and confronting those who commit exactly the types of crimes we are discussing. Not being hateful should never be mistaken for weakness.

[im10ashus]

42. That's a wonderful suggestion.

Here's a link for those interested.

http://www.splcenter.org/index.jsp

Thanks, H20 Man!

:yourock:

Edited to add: Julian Bonds was its first President. GREAT man!

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

17. Wonderful!

I have enjoyed the writings of all you quoted and was thrilled to see your quoting Merton.

:kick:

[G_j]

23. I think this also deserves a place here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4056768

Message From Dali Lama On Rage

[G_j]

40. kick