A note of appreciation for progressive Catholics.

[Zhade]

You're here, we're queer, and you're used to it.

You don't defend the homophobic bigotry of many of the Catholic church's leaders, such as the new pope who called a loving committed relationship between two members of the same sex "an intrinsic evil".

You don't support attempts to take away a woman's right to control her own body, no matter your personal feelings on abortion.

You don't condone members of the RCC lying about AIDS passing through condoms, which results in the death of many.

You don't hide from the fact that child rape was covered up by a secret written policy from the Vatican. In fact, you abhor the acts and refuse to ignore them.

You do support equality for all, including GLBT folk. You do support progressive policies that take care of the poor. You do stand against war and the death penalty. You do care about all citizens, no matter what shade of skin or sexual orientation.

I don't believe what you believe. I do admire and feel gratitude for your progressive stances, and I don't think I've said that recently.

So, to all those progressive Catholics (and, truthfully, every believer of any faith who supports progressive ideals): thank you for being you.

[MinnesotaDem]

1. Huh?

"I don't believe what you believe" - Did you really mean to say that? I don't understand.

[Zhade]

2. I don't believe in religion, is what I meant.

Heh, it does read funny, doesn't it?

[Zhade]

3. It's funny...

I often read posts wherein a believer says atheists never appreciate progressive believers, that we "broad-brush" all of them.

Then, when I post a note of appreciation, it sinks like a rock (because everyone is arguing about smoking).

The irony is great! :D

[applegrove]

4. There was a break between the Vatican & Constantinople over a

thousand years ago. Looks like this is the time for another break. Religions have been doing that FOREVER. So regroup and form a catholic offshoot. There are many catholic offshoots. The Vatican is just a human administrative arm of the old catholic church. Nothing in the bible says anything about Rome.

Carry on with the love you have in your hearts. That is what god is according to the Bible.

[Zhade]

5. That decision is up to Catholics - I wish them success should they do so.

NT!

[applegrove]

6. Of course. But now that the vatican is obviously getting advice

from Karl Rove on purges... I thought I'd put my two cents in!!!

[Zhade]

8. Happy to have you contribute!

:)

[H2O Man]

7. This is a good message.

I was a Catholic until age 12. Many of my family & friends still are. They are active in progressive politics. A social movement requires a varied group to accomplish progressive goals.

[Zhade]

9. I felt it worth saying...

...especially after I got really hardnosed with one wannabe martyr in the LBN story about the church hiring lobbyists in Massachusetts.

Gotta let the good ones know how I feel when I take the unprogressive ones to task! :)

[H2O Man]

10. I think that you are fair

and open-minded. Even those times I may not agree with you, I think you listen to other opinions. The same can not be said for the heads of the Catholic religion. And that's a shame. A good man who I worked on jail reform with was forced out of the church in the early 1980s. His name was James Murphey, from Albany NY. I've had opportunity to work on a couple things with Phillip and Daniel Berrigan years ago. These were dedicated individuals that did fantastic work. But the top levels are not of the same quality. Saying so should not offend anyone.

[Zhade]

11. I try. I often fail. The effort is worth making, though.

I really have learned how to think things through on DU. For example, it was DUers that finally helped me understand why I should oppose the death penalty.

Why was your friend forced out? Knowing you, he must have been a decent guy!

I try. I often fail. The effort is worth making, though.

[H2O Man]

13. He refused

to give up his position in the state assembly, as I recall, when a call had come from Rome that all priests would get out of elected offices or other political positions. He married a woman who dropped out from being a "sister," or nun, at the same time. They were dedicated people, who held moral beliefs which forced them out of the church. I lost touch with them, but they were the type of people that make a lasting impression.

[beam me up scottie]

12. I agree.

Most of the people I grew up with are catholic and they are some of the best humans I have ever known.

On DU, most progressive catholics are very outspoken when it comes to championing human rights for all.

Kudos to the liberal catholics, our allies and friends !

:applause:

[Zhade]

14. Look, two godless atheists applauding progressive Christians...

...and it sinks because of smoking arguments. :(

(I'm kinda guilty of kicking that thread myself, though...)

Bookmark this thread for later reference! :D

:hi: BMUS. Hope all is well.

[rug]

15. Sorry, I was out smoking.

Good post. I'm Catholic and the Church has gotten wrapped up in politics again - where it has no authority. It's one thing to call abortion a sin but something altogether different to advocate imprisoning women for sinning. The Church can preach that all sex outside heterosexual marriage is wrong but it cannot impose impoverishment on surviving life partners.

On the other hand, it does not condemn smoking.

[Zhade]

16. Nice subject line.

Clever. :)

Are you saying that the RCC doesn't condemn smoking, or did I misread you?

[rug]

17. It doesn't.

The Catechism has a section on respecting the body and says excessive smoking may be sinful but smoking per se is not. Same for alcohol.

[Zhade]

18. But let me guess: marijuana, which is a beneficial medicinal plant...

...is prohibited?

If I'm wrong, I'll be pleasantly surprised!

[rug]

19. Hmmm, I don't think it says anything about pot.

Probably just a venial sin.

[Zhade]

23. Well, that's a good thing, then.

NT!

[beam me up scottie]

20. I hope nobody

thinks we're getting paid...

:hide:

[jmm]

21. That would explain the extra collection plate

:think:

[beam me up scottie]

30. Hey !

Who put the Canadian quarters in there ?

[TaleWgnDg]

22. kick . . . n/t

[WilliamPitt]

24. Thanks

[jmm]

25. Too often the Scalia's , Novak's, and Buchanon's become

the face of Catholicism when they aren't even following the tenants of the religion. There's alot about Catholicism I don't agree with which is why I haven't been to church in years and don't plan on going soon but some of the most accepting and progressive people I've known are Catholic.

[Pirate Smile]

26. Thanks. That is very nice. The crazy thing is that there are so many

progressive Catholics specifically because of the values we absorbed from Catholic Schools, Mass, our Catholic parent(s), etc.

[CBHagman]

36. I know. There are the nuns and priests who...

...have been arrested for civil disobedience in antiwar protests, tampering with missiles, and the like. I remember a political cartoon from the '80s which showed anti-nuke American cardinals landing on Ronald Reagan like a bunch of missiles (sight gag: their mitres were all pointing at RR).

Over the last 20 years, there has been an attempt to boil everything political down to support for Catholic schools (and therefore vouchers) and what's considered conservative social policy. It's not that simple, though, because of the pacifist, pro-union, pro-social justice stance among members of the Catholic Church. We are, I hope, not about to turn into Ayn Rand-reading, hawkish supply-siders. :puke:

[really annoyed]

27. Kick

Appreciation from somebody who doesn't even like most religious institutions. Only progressive people will bring change to their churches. Adhering to "tradition" doesn't solve anything.

But I would like to know how many DU members are conservative Catholics. It seems likes liberalism would be incompatible with it.

I'm glad I've only run into a few...

[txindy]

28. Born, raised, and still Catholic. Even went to Catholic school.

And everyone I knew who was Catholic was a Democrat/progressive, as well.

Then we moved to Texas....

Maybe there's something in the water here. :shrug:

[deadparrot]

29. Well, thanks. :)

I was baptized into the RCC, and I've grown up in it. I many have doctrinal issues, both those that have an impact on the outside world and those that don't. I do, however, wholeheartedly follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. Though I no longer attend Mass, except sometimes at Christmas and Easter, I believe all the things you said above.

However, with the right turn that the church has taken in recent years, in addition to the pedophilia (the brother of a friend I've known since I was six was one of the victims) I've kind of separated myself from the term "Catholic." It's kind of strange to think of myself that way now. :)

[Zhade]

35. I'm very sorry to hear about your friend's brother.

NT!

[YOY]

31. Thank you for your kind words!

It is nice to be recognized!

I do know some hard core RW Catholics. They are usually the type that love using the guilt BS that has plagued our faith for the last 1000+ years. These types often forget the kindness and humanity of our faith in lieu of the cruel face of intolerance that goes hand-in-hand with narrowmindedness.

and keep on being who you want to be! You've nothing but support from my POV! :thumbsup:

[alittlelark]

32. As a lapsed Catholic I say 'good for you'!!!!

Keep up the fight I abandoned 10 years ago.

[Zhade]

33. Yay, people see they're appreciated!

That makes me happy. :)

[UrbScotty]

34. Thank you.

:loveya: