Anyone else seeing the tide of opinion turn.

[Norbert]

A friend of mine that is a conservative Republican that voted for Monkey Butt. He hasen't been a Neocon sheeple but he did support the dim son.

He has kept an objective eye on the Valerie Plame outing for a while now. Tonight he flat out said that if Rove outed a CIA agent he is guilty of treason. No splitting hairs, no Rove didn't mean it, and no Rove didn't actually say her name, but he said Rove is guilty.

That made me feel good especially since he doesn't say a whole lot about shrub any more.

[FreedomAngel82]

1. Wow

No apologist?

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. Same here

My conservative friend is actually emailing me with stories from all over the internet about Rove. He also said Rove is probably guilty of treason and Bush needs to keep his word and nail him.

[Peace Patriot]

5. That's a laugh: Bush "keep his word and nail him."

If Rove is "nailed," he's just taking the fall for Cheney, and will be pardoned and well rewarded.

There's something deeper going on here, which is probably that they quite deliberately sent Wilson on a wild goose chase to Niger, knew that he would report back "no nukes," planted the falsehood in Bush's speech about Iraq nukes deliberately to bait Wilson, and then outed his wife--their real target, who had eyes and ears on WMDs around the world. Motive?: a plot to plant WMDs in Iraq--what they most needed in summer '03?; or, Cheney covert arms dealings? Something like that.

It's interesting that the go-between, Judith Miller--who likely laundered Plame's identity to reporters, to hide the real source--also knew David Kelly, the Brit WMD expert who was suicided in England around the same time (summer '03). His last email was to...Judith Miller(!), and in it he was worried about "dark actors playing games." (He, too, had been whistleblowing on cooked WMD intel.) (Note: Miller was the prime Bush Cartel propagandist for WMDs in Iraq, and printed many false claims as truth on the front pages of the NYT. It is damned curious that Kelly would be disclosing his uneasiness to her, shortly before his death.)

More about Judith Miller (Miller/Plame/David Kelly)
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/7/3/17138/30618

Plame...the tip of the iceberg... (Plame maybe investigating Cheney arms deals when they busted her CIA weapons op)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2178477#2180220

-------

The answer to the stink in Washington DC is state/local election reform. We must restore our right to vote, by throwing Diebold, ES&S and brethren out of the election business NOW--or at the least achieve some measure of election transparency with paper ballot backups, no secret programming code and strict auditing. The only place where we can get that done is in state/local jurisdictions, where the authority over election systems still resides, and where ordinary people still have some say. Don't let the powers-that-be silence our voices on election reform! See the DU Forum "2004 Election Results and Discussion" for information and action ideas:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=203http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=203

[skooooo]

3. Shrub gotta a little bounce..

..from the London bombings (for some reason). Hopefully that won't last -- I can't see that it should.

[cynatnite]

4. I will never understand that

how can he get a bounce from bombings that happened overseas?

I mean, my brain just can't comprehend it. It makes no sense at all.

:banghead:

[City Lights]

7. It makes no sense to me either, but I'm thankful it wasn't bigger.

That tells me he's foolin' fewer and fewer people with his bullshit.

[Blue Belle]

9. I think the polls are never accurate...

I think they always spare the Bu$h and skew the percentage points. I have a feeling the actual poll numbers are probably in the upper thirties.

[Deja Q]

6. But for the same reasons? Or out of self concern (e.g. gas money)

That's what we need to keep an eye on. Our "society" is made to program people into thinking we're not a society but a bunch of (disposable or exploitable) entities.

In terms of SOLELY the Rove issue; some people will wake up just enough to accept *co is manipulative (nothing more). Some of them will spin things to support rove; others will demand rove get justice.

But the core problem remains.

And no matter how they try otherwise we're still a society. From a hunter/gatherer perspective: And it is easier for the whole tribe to gather meat (or berries) than just one person within. Especially when the meat at that stage can still fight back and kill. People forget this and ~20 years after peak oil subsides, if people haven't remembered then humanity is done for. Thank God.

[Kazak]

8. If I had a nickel... n/t

[Patty Diana]

10. Conservative AOL Poll on Rove__Check it out

What's your take on what Karl Rove said to Time about the agent?
He deliberately said too much 71%
It's unclear 13%
He didn't say too much at all 10%
He mistakenly said too much 6%
Total Votes: 177,823
http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20050710183509990003&ncid=NWS00010000000001

[Kraklen]

11. I was on a long drive last holiday weekend.

I saw a bumpersticker that read, "George W. Bush made me a Democrat."

I've never, ever seen a bumpersticker like that before.

[BCBud]

12. Definitely a turn

I watched CNN, MSNBC and Faux most of the day today and between the three it was on most of the time. This is the first time I've seen a negative story about the administration explode like this, particularly on a story with legs. Even if there are no criminal charges it brings to light the duplicity, in spades, in my opinion.

I couldn't figure out Rove's motivation for making those statements about liberals preparing indictments and seeking counseling for the terrorists at a time when the war was going badly, the poll numbers were slipping and the DSM's were getting momentum. I think I get it now. It was to save his own ass!!! Create the illusion that the liberals and the so-called liberal media are out to get him. Then when the Plamegate(whatever) story breaks, which he knew it would, he plays the victim. What do you think?

[Pepperbelly]

13. the bastard bumped back up to 49% in the latest Pew. nt

[BCBud]

14. Give it a little time....

.... to many people watching FOX news and getting scared.