Plamegate - Rove knew it would get this far

[garybeck]

did you all hear this taped interview which was recorded last year at the RNC?

http://rawstory2.com/audio/karlrovedenial.mp3

Rove says:

"I didn't know her name, I didn't leak her name."

Is that eerie or what?

Now we know that to be technically true, because he supposedly said that "Wilson's wife" is a CIA operative, without naming her.

This leads me to believe that somehow this is all planned and that he sees a way out because he didn't actually leak her name.

[eleny]

1. But we know his name and it's traitor

[Quixote1818]

17. I thought his name was 'Dick Head'?

:shrug:

[Catherine Vincent]

2. So true. That's how corrupt minds work.

I'll leak as much as I can without naming names.

[Erika]

3. Bushies are spooky

Too bad the U.S. doesn't offer a reality test before they can vote.

[DBoon]

4. I bet he never thought he'd get caught

He always thought of himself as above the law.

It's what trips up every criminal - they start to believe in their own invincibility. The Greeks called it "Hubris"

[garybeck]

5. yeah, but I just wonder if he analyzed the whole thing before

he did it, maybe even had lawyers look it over, and somehow because he didn't say her name he's going to get off.

[DBoon]

6. Lawyers can be very good ...

at covering up the incompetence of arrogant, stupid criminals afflicted with terminal hubris.

It's their job.

(I can just imagine defense counsel saying, "Holy shit, how do we get him out of this one? I know - we'll claim he never uttered her name! No one can disprove it!".)

[garybeck]

7. what I'm saying is, they planned it this way from the beginning

and he purposely said "Wilson's wife is a CIA operative" without giving her name, so that when the invesigation gets to him he would be able to say he didn't reveal her name... not that they came up with this excuse after the fact.

[garybeck]

12. did you read this article about Rove's lawyer? amazing

he was once paid with gold bards, laundered money, and knew it.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2005_07_10.php#006045

[Jane Austin]

24. If he did that, he really did head up a conspiracy.

n/t

[wtmusic]

8. Statute deals with leaking her identity, not her name

"Wilson's wife" would send him up in any honest courtroom

[Up2Late]

9. I hope your right. Also, I think we need to decide now that it's Rovegate!

Let's not start placing the blame on the Victim.

Plus, we should all send a short, angry e-mail to P.J. O'Rourke for the stupid thing he said about this recently, let's go to the tape:

Report Links Rove to Early Plame Leak

Listen to this story... by David Folkenflik

All Things Considered, July 11, 2005 · White House deputy Karl Rove was the source Time reporter Mathew Cooper risked jail to protect in an inquiry into the leak of a CIA agent's name, according to Newsweek. Rove apparently didn't name agent Valerie Plame, saying instead that she was former ambassador Joseph Wilson's wife.

[garybeck]

14. "Rovegate" confines it to Rove only. Me thinks there is more

than just Rove and it could include Bolton, Cheney or * himself.

[garybeck]

10. purgery?

Supposedly in the grand jury testimony, rove ahs denied leaking "her name." If that's the case he might NOT have committed purgery.

which leaves us with the actual leaking. if he never gave her name, and claims to never have known it, it seems to directly imply there are others involved. how could he know that Wilson's wife was an operative, without knowing her name, unless someone told it to him exactly like that, without revealing her name?

Knowing Rove, somewhere there is a way out of this. I'm just having a hard time finding it right now. I can see he may have covered himself on purgery with the name thing, though.

[wtmusic]

18. Then you're left with

believing that Rove called up Novak, said "Wilson's wife", and Novak had to find out from someone else who Wilson's wife was.

Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive.

[JDPriestly]

19. Which would possibly make him a member

of a conspiracy -- a co-conspirator. You are right. That he did not state Wilson's wife's name, even if it protects him from a claim based on the violation of the law that was originally the subject of the prosecutor's investigation will not help him much if he was part of a conspiracy.

For example, if you are part of a conspiracy to commit murder, let's say you buy the gun, but someone else pulls the trigger, you are still guilty of being part of a conspiracy to commit murder and probably will be punished for the murder yourself.

[dzika]

11. Here's another clip for you....

Wilson/Rove/McClellan:
rove_mclellan_wilson_frogmarch-02.mp3

[garybeck]

15. omigosh, that is great!

I still think it's a little eerie that he's saying "I didn't leak **her name** "

but that montage is perfect. it should be submitted to the court as evidence!

we should all download a copy and spread it around

[SF Bay Area Dem]

13. Too bad for dear Karl that the law...

... does not look at his splitting of the hairs in the same way he does... A good competent prosecutor will tear this half assed pathetic defense to shreds. Karl needs to remember he is not a elected official and impeachment does not apply to him. The rule of law in an American courtroom applies to him and Fitzgerald needs to get on with it and indict and let the jury decide.

[JDPriestly]

21. Oh! But a good prosecutor will move slowly enough

to catch as many fish as there are in the pond. And that may mean that Rove will have to sit on the hot seat for quite a while unless he decides to be very, very cooperative. If this prosecutor loves his work as much as people say he does, he is going to have a very interesting few months, possibly years ahead of him. The prosecutor is really going after some big, fat, arrogant, mean fish, and they deserve the worst. I'm rooting for the prosecutors on this one. Rove and his co-conspirators abused power like never before.

What is at stake here? It is the ability of CIA agents in the future to gain the trust of people from whom they try to obtain information on things like nuclear proliferation, terrorist networks, drug cartels, major international crime of all sorts. The interests at issue here are truly vital to the future of our country.

It is essential that the identity, and not just the name, but the entire identity of people like Valerie Plame, who are working on worthwhile espionage projects, be protected. We are not talking about some stupid spy game here. We are talking about information about who is selling and buying nuclear materiel illegally. Busting Valerie Plame (Wilson's wife) is about busting people who are providing that information to our government. This is not about secrets having to do with some ideological argument between power hungry people on both sides, but about secrets having to do with the survival of the human race. Outing "Wilson's wife" is a very serious matter because she could have been identified as Valerie Plame with a minimum of research. Let's not allow the Republican media to forget that.

[FreedomAngel82]

23. I agree

I think at the pace things are going Fitzegerald is probably going to go after the real people who were behind it or anyone else who was in on it as well. By the end of the year hopefully (if not sooner) we could have more then just Karl Rove going to jail.

[Jane Austin]

27. That's why I think this may be bigger than perjury.

I'm starting to think that Rove, by blowing up an entire covert operation (the front corporation Brewster Jennings) that he is guilty of obstructing the intelligence gathering ability of the US governemtn in a time of war (Afghanistan and war on terror).

That's serious stuff.

[B Calm]

29. Death Penalty?

[in_cog_ni_to]

16. Did he also say

He told Chris Matthews, "Joe Wilson's wife is fair game?"

Of course he didn't. :eyes:

He probably looked at the law, figured a way around it (or so he thought) and then devised his scheme.

Is he an attorney? Anyone know?

[gardenista]

20. Rove may have been trying to lay the groundwork for his defense

But it will wear thin with the American people. They will see through this one.

We don't like oral sex in the Oval Office.

But we HATE TREASON.

He will go down for this.

[kenny blankenship]

22. If that's really his defense he's good and fucked.

When you identify an attacker or thief in a police lineup as a witness, you don't know their names either. You indicate which one and point at him. And that's legal evidence. Later in court, you may be asked to point to him again.

If you indicate someone they are identified. You could point to a politician smiling in a group photo and say "this one is a spy for us", and you have identified them without naming them. If Rove caused the identity of Valerie Plame as a CIA field agent to be disclosed by naming her or indicating her in any way, say by describing her relationship to Wilson, that would be legal evidence of a crime whether he thought her name was Plame or Wilson, or whether he knew her last name was something other than her husband's but didn't know what it was.

I'd love to hear a lawyer give an opinion on the "I didn't know her real name defense."

[LibDemAlways]

25. The headline tonight at the top of Buzzflash

contains an apt analogy which I'll paraphrase. If a mob boss orders a hit man to kill "Jim Smith's wife," can he later successfully claim he didn't order the murder because he never named her? That, apparently, is the loophole Rove is trying to slither through.

[autorank]

26. Gary, consider this one...

Mob boss to hit man: "I want you to nail Johnny Rocks wife, nail her good. She's talking to the police."

Mob boss is going to jail, no two ways about it. If Rove thinks this defense will get him out of it, he's delusional.

In fact, the parsing of words indicates just how desperate he is. The more likely explanation is that Rove thought he and "the lizard king" were so far above the law, nothing would happen.

He pointed a reporter in the direction of an exclusive target naming her as a CIA agent. End of story. He's fucked.

[bklyncowgirl]

28. Everyone over at the WH including Bush lawyered up early on.

I'm not surprised.

He may have even talked to the WH counsel before leaking to make sure he was within the letter of the law. That would be one Antonio Gonzales AKA Torture Memo Boy, current attorney general and possible future Supreme Court nominee.

Wouldn't that be sweet?

If the letter of the law states that he has to say the actual name in order for it to be a crime, it's possible he could skate even though any reporter who didn't get his press credentials in a cracker jack box would have easily been able to find the name of Wilson's wife in a heartbeat.

We need to focus on Roves intent and his reckless disregard for America's security in a time of war--not on the legal nitpicking.

[mopaul]

30. unless wilson has more than one wife, it had to be valerie plame