"I don't know who did it" and Conspiracy Theories discussion - Thread 2

[Technowitch]

(on edit to include link. my bad, folks)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4071709&mesg_id=4071709

Have at it folks.

[TheGoodCitizen]

1. The Downing Street Minutes....

need I say more?

(edit: just my silly attempt to show that you can slap that "conspiracy theory" label on just about anything)

[alittlelark]

41. uh, yeah...............

enjoy while you can.

[justinsb]

2. I have a less scary possibility

than general LIHOP or MIHOP stuff. In New York on 9/11 and in London there were training exercises going on. These training exercises would have made local authorities more dismissive of calls from the public about anything going on. Perhaps there is a single person with a high security clearance who is working for or with Al Queda to coordinate events.

[TheGoodCitizen]

3. Any thoughts on what defines "Conspiracy Theories".......

One man's reality is another man's "Conspiracy Theory"!

Why are some shunned from polite society only to be called tinfoilers, END OF DISCUSSION, and other's are not.

I would rather have some serious discussion about what shapes peoples perception, as oppose to hearing some crazy tinfoiler go off on a rant in this thread. :sarcasm:


(edit: poor grammar)

[leftofthedial]

26. I have never heard a single explanation for 9-11 or now 7-7

including the "official" stories

that is not a conspiracy theory.

[TheGoodCitizen]

28. It's just plain creepy....

that's what that is.

[Beam Me Up]

30. Ok. I'll bite. What shapes people's perception, according to you?

And how is this question relevant to the original question?

:discuss:

[TheGoodCitizen]

34. If we can find out why people call other people nutty tinfoilers....

then maybe we can find out what's really behind this movement.



"After several years of "Mega Ditto's" from Rush Limpballs, Fox "News" and listening to the Bush Administration, the effects of this MASSIVE war time propaganda effort have taken it's tole on the masses in mysterious ways... they have almost succeeded in totally shutting us up and preventing us from thinking about the obvious without feeling strange!

Darkness Draws Near!" ~The Good Citizen (DU 07/12/05)

[Beam Me Up]

39. Did you write this before in another post recently, perhaps last night,

or am I just having a very strong hit of deja vu?

[TheGoodCitizen]

44. See: post #29 on this thread

:headbang:

(edit: I'll keep saying it too, until someone hears me)

[Beam Me Up]

54. Yes. And see post 40 and 52.

[TheGoodCitizen]

56. Yes they were great....

see post 48 and 50

[Sterling]

70. Fear, Laziness.

Fear of standing out among their "peers" and a lethargy toward exploring idea's that may reshape their overall perception of reality.

[frictionlessO]

40. Thats what I have been asking... and each one of the anti CT'ers had

different answers if they could come up with one at all.

All I seem to be getting is when you say a certain something that they dont agree with you are automatcially an evil CT'er out ot harm and damage the cause or you're just an idiot to be scolded.

[Beam Me Up]

46. Yes. I believe it is called a "prejudice".

Interesting phenomena, prejudice. Those who manifest it are often unaware of what it actually is: a form of social discipline. It is more subtle than "You're either with us or you're against us," but it ultimately accomplishes much the same thing.

[frictionlessO]

49. Hey you have definitely made a new friend in me today!

I like what you have to say and will be watching for your posts regularly from now on.

Thanks again!

[Beam Me Up]

60. Good to meet you as well.

:blush: :hi:

[TheGoodCitizen]

50. BINGO....

be prepared for some scary days to come.

[TheGoodCitizen]

48. It's all part of something bigger going on in America....

and some don't even realize they have succumb to this historically MASSIVE war time propaganda effort.

[Skip Intro]

4. Link to original. And text of OP. (for context)

btw, I'm a long time duer absent of malice.



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4071709#4075632

Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Jul-11-05 02:23 PM

Edited on Mon Jul-11-05 02:29 PM by Minstrel Boy

Does saying "I don't know who did it" make someone a conspiracy theorist"?

I thought one needed to theorize first.

Even though all speculation about London at this stage must conspiracy theory, only some speculation is expected to wear that demeaning label and like it. Even if there's no speculation at all, and rather, merely, a withholding of judgement until we have more evidence.

A "senior US counterterrorism official" can say, anonymously and without support, that he suspects al-Zarqawi. And reporters, rather than convulse in spit-takes or consider why it serves US interests to float such a preposterous allegation, take it down and regurgitate it as though he were serious. Such figures are considered, by default, to be "informed" sources, even though they are actually the worst kind of conspiracy theorists: they don't respect their theory enough to back up their baseless assertion, which they make only because they are pushing an agenda.

Since Europe remembers Operation Gladio, and the revelations of connivance of Western military intelligence with fascists, gangsters and secret societies to wage a false flag terror campaign to discredit its democratic Left (most notoriously, the Bologna train bombing, which killed more people than the London attack), no speculation should be discounted out of hand, and nothing should be taken at face value. (Gladio agent Vincenzo Vinciguerra testified "You had to attack civilians, the people, women, children, innocent people, unknown people far removed from any political game. The reason was quite simple: to force...the public to turn to the state to ask for greater security.") And yet to simply recall this history, and say I don't know who bombed London, is to be called a credulous, tinfoil-wearing clown who makes us look bad.

Help me out here.

----------------

[TheGoodCitizen]

7. I think it's very important for that to be posted here for context....

Thanks! :hi:

[Technowitch]

11. I included the link, but not the text. Thanks, Skip, for the context.

:)

[Skip Intro]

16. but I don't see the link

wow, trippy stuff tonight

:D

[TheGoodCitizen]

19. I just noticed that as well....

WOW you guys-n-gals have really go me trippin out now. :yoiks:

[Technowitch]

20. Nah, I just goofed. Thanks for mentioning it.

I edited the initial post to include the link.

cheers,
-Technowitch

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

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[TheGoodCitizen]

8. Just so you know....

that was NOT my intention. The OP has been posted here for context... Go for it!

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

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[TheGoodCitizen]

17. Bring up some of the compelling issues that have dissapeared....

that way they can be recorded here and we can continue the conversation.

Maybe some of the posters from the other thread will also be so kind to start posting on this thread as well.

[alittlelark]

6. The thread I originally posted in was locked.

The thread I started dealing w/ the posting issue is here...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4076468#4076599

This is the DEMOCRATIC underground.... is it not?
:cry:

[TheGoodCitizen]

10. See post 77 on your locked thread:

"whenever a thread is locked for length another one is opened to resume, what part of thist statement do you not understand?"

You can continue with your thoughts on this thread, it was started by a mod to boot.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

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[alittlelark]

32. Uh, I did, and It does not exist in this paradigm.

Try again.

[Skip Intro]

12. No It Wasn't/Isn't

the thread at the link you posted is not locked, I just posted in it

:shrug:

[TheGoodCitizen]

14. I just noticed that too....

[alittlelark]

23. Funny how things change over the course of minutes.

Really. amazing.

[TheGoodCitizen]

24. Ever Vigilant

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

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[Skip Intro]

33. well, it is now

I feel like a ping pong ball

[LibertyorDeath]

18. "The Secret Organization of al-Qaida in Europe"

It sounds like something out of an Austin Powers flick for F%#*sakes

"The Secret Organization of al-Qaida in Europe"

"The Secret" how much more of this shit can we swallow

CBC NEWS: SUNDAY NIGHT
CBC News: Sunday Night airs on CBC-TV at 10:00 pm,
on CBC Newsworld at 9:00 p.m., 12:00 a.m., and 3:00 a.m. (ET)

SUNDAY, JULY 10, 2005

CRISIS PLANNING
When there is an emergency like the London bombings, the public instinctively turns to professionals for help. We speak to two experts who are in Toronto today for the World Conference on Disaster Management. Adrian Gordon is the Executive Director of the Canadian Centre for Emergency Preparedness, and Peter Power is Managing Director of a London-based consulting firm that specializes in crisis management, Visor Consultants - which on the morning of July 7 was co-incidentally running a security exercise for a private firm, simulating multiple bomb explosions in the London Underground, at the same stations that were subsequently attacked in real life.
http://www.cbc.ca/sunday/#night


OPERATION NORTHWOODS:

The National Security Archive
In his new exposé of the National Security Agency entitled Body of Secrets, author James Bamford highlights a set of proposals on Cuba by the Joint Chiefs of Staff codenamed OPERATION NORTHWOODS. This document, titled “Justification for U.S. Military Intervention in Cuba” was provided by the JCS to Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara on March 13, 1962, as the key component of Northwoods. Written in response to a request from the Chief of the Cuba Project, Col. Edward Lansdale, the Top Secret memorandum describes U.S. plans to covertly engineer various pretexts that would justify a U.S. invasion of Cuba. These proposals - part of a secret anti-Castro program known as Operation Mongoose - included staging the assassinations of Cubans living in the United States, developing a fake “Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington,” including “sink a boatload of Cuban refugees (real or simulated),” faking a Cuban airforce attack on a civilian jetliner, and concocting a “Remember the Maine” incident by blowing up a U.S. ship in Cuban waters and then blaming the incident on Cuban sabotage. Bamford himself writes that Operation Northwoods “may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the U.S. government.”

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/

[alittlelark]

25. I thought it waxthe SUPER Secret Organ....... whatever

Yeah.

[Beam Me Up]

35. I wonder. . .

What is the link between Operation Nortwoods and the Kennedy assassination, if any. Operation Mongoose -- who, or what, was the Cobra?

[LibertyorDeath]

76. Here you can feed that Cobra to the Mongoose

It's one of the oldest tricks in the book, dating back to Roman times; creating the enemies you need.

Posted by Robert on <08 Jul 2005 | Friday> at 12:39 AM

I was the lead investigator and Senior Editor for The Jakarta Post on the Bali bombings. Shortly after my analysis was printed (signed off on by the Chief Editor and Publisher) I was sacked at the order of U.S. Ambassador Ralph Boyce for outing a CIA contract agent (Hermawan Sulystio) in connection with the bombing. The Ambassador REFUSED to answer my question - yes or no - as to U.S. involvement. My journalist visa was then cancelled and I was forced out of the country despite being married to an Indonesian national.

There it is. It is my firm belief that the CIA/MOSSAD was responsible for the bombings in London.

Let's hope that there are some good independent investiagtors on the ground in London.

Inquiries are welcome.

Robert S. Finnegan
Managing Editor
Southeast Asia News
[e-mail]
www.seanews.2truth.com

[earth mom]

27. The other thread was awesome...

Wish I could have posted in it in support of the many people who stuck up for CT-ists. Thank you all! :)

I also wanted to say that...

I am dismayed at the attempts of some on this board to completely squash freedom of speech and thought.

I am appalled at the attempts of some on this board to make the rest of us bow to whatever we're force fed by the media and the * administration.

I am shocked that some on this board even care what rethugs or freepers think.

See the thing of it is (and most of us know this) is that these bastards in the media and the * Bush administration have been proven to LIE up one side and down the other to the American public time and time again. How anyone can believe one word they print or say at this point in time is simply beyond me!

Not only that-I could give a damn as to what any rethug or freeper thinks of me or any of the brave liberals on this board. If anything, the rethug freepers should be worried sick about what the WORLD will think of them and DO TO them when the truth is finally told!

My gawd, in a world that has turned so rotten, vile and ugly shouldn't DU stand for what this country was founded upon, starting with the freedom of ideas, thoughts and speech?

Why oh why, can't DU be a bright honest light in all this darkness...?!

[TheGoodCitizen]

29. Here's my "darkness" speech I posted in another thread...

After several years of "Mega Ditto's" from Rush Limpballs, Fox "News" and listening to the Bush Administration, the effects of this MASSIVE war time propaganda effort have taken it's tole on the masses in mysterious ways... they have almost succeeded in totally shutting us up and preventing us from thinking about the obvious without feeling strange!

Darkness Draws Near!

[earth mom]

31. You said it! It's like everyone is Scared Silent... eom

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TheGoodCitizen]

63. Well take a look all around you....

people are scared silent, or silenced! Not a peep!

[TheGoodCitizen]

65. All over AMERICA people are afraid to speak out....

because of the garbage that Rush Limpballs and O'Really and the like spew. It's taking it's tole!

[Sterling]

69. My reaction to these events has been the oposite.

If 9-11 did not wake people up to the fact the Gov is full of shit, it is them that has the problem.

[Beam Me Up]

64. ^^^^Powerfully stated and right on, IMO.

We MUST stand together now. We may not be able to say with absolute certainty what the truth actually is, but we do know that, whatever it is, it is NOT what we've been led to believe -- no, manipulated and expected to believe, by both media and government.

This is very important. We absolutely must define ourselves in opposition to rule by deception -- which is one of the fundamental Straussian tenants of PNAC.

[oioioi]

36. Don't all threads re 7/7 belong in the 9/11 forum?

just sayin...

echoes of Scotty's press conference around here tonight.

[B. P. R. D.]

38. Not unless they rename the 9/11 forum:

The terrorist attack forum.

[G_j]

47. or the "alternative versions of official explanations of terrorist

attacks" forum.

a bit long though..

[TheGoodCitizen]

53. I think you're on to something....

but isn't the 9/11 (the largest attack on American soil, EVER) forum stuck in the basement where nobody can really find it?

So I would hate to see your new "AVOET" forum be shoved in the basement like that, it's too important.

[G_j]

61. I agree

and I want lurkers to be exposed to these alternatives also.
It is very important IMO.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

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[theearthisround]

43. This reminds me of an incredible book... "Listen, Little Man!" (excerpts)

(repost, fixed transcription errors)
From "Listen, Little Man!" By Wilhelm Reich.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0374504016/qid=1121145529/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_ur_1/102-8102346-0809750?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

You have no eye, no feeling for the truly great man. His character, his suffering, his yearning, his fury, and his struggle in your behalf are foreign to you. You are unaware that man and women exist who are inherently incapable of oppressing and exploiting you, men and women who want you to be free, really and truly free. You dislike such men and women, because they are alien to your nature. They are simple and forthright; they value the truth as much as you value trickery. They see through you, not with contempt but with sorrow and the human condition; but your awareness of being seen through gives you a sense of danger. You recognize their greatness, little man, only when many other little men tell you they are great. You're afraid of great men, their closeness to life and love of life. But the great man loves you as he would love any other animal, as a living creature. He doesn't want you to suffer as you've suffered for thousands of years. He doesn't want you to talk nonsense, as you've done for thousands of years. He doesn't want you to live like a work horse, because he loves life and wants it to be free from suffering and humiliation.

You drive truly great men to despise you, to hide their heads in sorrow at you and your smallness, to avoid you, and worst of all, to pity you. If, little man, you are a psychiatrist, a Lombroso for instance, you brand the truly great man a criminal, or at least a would-be criminal, or a lunatic, because a great man does not, like you, see the aim of life in riches, in socially suitable marriages for his daughters, or in a political career, or in academic honors. So, because he is different from you, you call him a "genius" or a "nut". He, for his part, is quite willing to admit that he's not a genius but only a living creature. You call him asocial because he'd rather be alone with his thoughts than listening to inane chatter at your social functions. You say he's crazy because he spends his money on scientific research instead of investing it in stocks as you do. You dare, little man, in your abysmal degeneracy, to call a simple, straightforward man "abnormal." You measure him against yourself and your petty standards of normalcy and find him wanting. You fail to see, little man, you refuse to recognize, that you're driving this man, who loves you and wants only to help you, from all social life, because in drawing room and barroom alike, you've made it unbearable. Who made him what he is today after decades of desperate suffering? You did, with your unscrupulousness, your narrow-mindedness, your crooked thinking and your "eternal truths," which are incapable of surviving ten years of social development. Just think of all the "certainties" you've sworn by in the years between the First and Second World Wars alone. Tell me frankly, how much have you retracted? Nothing, little man. A great man is cautious in his thinking, but once he commits himself to an idea, he thinks far ahead. And you, little man, treat him like a pariah when his idea proves to be sound and long-lived, and yours a piddling flash in the pan. By making him into a pariah, you sow the terrible seed of loneliness in him. Not the seed that engenders great actions but the seed of fear, the fear of being misunderstood and abused by you. For you are "the people," "public opinion," "social conscience." Have you, little man, ever stopped to think of the enormous responsibility this implies? Have you ever asked yourself (tell the truth now!) whether, from the standpoint of long-term social development, or of nature, or of great human achievement--that of a Jesus, for example-- your thinking is right or wrong? No, you never ask yourself whether your thinking is right or wrong. You ask yourself what your neighbor will say about it, or whether, if you do right, it will cost you money. That's what you ask yourself, little man; that and nothing else!

(read the first few pages on amazon's "look inside this book" the first line of this paragraph is on the last page)
You differ from a great man in only one respect: the great man was once a very little man, but he developed one important quality: he recognized the smallness and narrowness of his thoughts and actions. Under the pressure of some task which meant a great deal to him, he learned to see how his smallness, his pettiness, endangered his happiness. In other words, a great man knows when and in what way he is a little man. A little man does not know he is little and is afraid to know. He hides his pettiness and narrowness behinds illusions of strength and greatness, someone else's strength and greatness. He's proud of his great generals but not of himself. He admires an idea he has not had, not one he has had. The less he understands something, the more firmly he believes in it. And the better he understands an idea, the less he believes in it.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0374504016/qid=1121145529/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_ur_1/102-8102346-0809750?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

[frictionlessO]

45. So whats going to happen? Are you guys going to define what constitutes

a Conspiracy Theory and the rules and regulations there of here at DU?

I really can't wait to hear what you all are going to do about this because Im going out of my mind, with all these little daggers in my back.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[frictionlessO]

66. Ohhhh... wow didn't get to see your post but Im sure the pizza was hot!!

thanks!

[Beam Me Up]

52. It's not about theories, conspiracy or otherwise. It's about prejudice

and prejudicial attitudes expressed with impunity.

[frictionlessO]

55. Well I just got reassured by a Mod in another thread...

I feel better knowing that there are people who are defending us in the halls of the mod forum.

I am also extremely tired after having fought in this debate for a couple of days and since about 10 am today its now 3;36 am...

Im spent.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sterling]

72. I tried to fight his battle months ago here.

It left me not giving a shit about the party or politics in general. Seriously, why bother supporting a site or party that wants me to stop thinking for myself.

I hope the mass of complaints from other DUers has more of an impact than my efforts did.

[TheGoodCitizen]

59. Sorry, but that conversation would really suck...

I can give you a definition from dictionary.com if you like though. I would hate to see a bunch of rules and censorship like over at KOS and FR.

[TheGoodCitizen]

67. Ok, let me rephrase that....

I would really dislike it if anyone were to "define what constitute a Conspiracy Theory and the rules and regulations there of" in order to enforce new rules here at DU.

[Beam Me Up]

58. As a little boy I once asked my mother if I was insane.

"No," she said, "You just see things that aren't there."

This is the attitude of what we are calling the "anti-CTs" (lord help us, please!). We're not "crazy" (exactly) we just see things where there aren't anything to see.

Funny that.

People are dying around us in the most peculiar ways and everyone believes they have an explanation for this -- and explanation that sets in motion -- GET THIS -- a war that will not end in our livetimes.

Hey, I'm not making this shit up. That is what we've been told is going to happen and I see little reason to doubt them. I believe we should take them at their word.

However, I'm not sure they are being completely honest with us.

You have to admit, they DO lie to us on a regular basis about just about everything--or do you (not speaking to anyone in particular) not see it that way?

[frictionlessO]

62. Autoranks super duper awesome post!!

It had to be brought over sorry....

"Allow me to say some bad things about KOS...If you will. Thank you.

KOS is a tin horn dictator. He went through "his" little briar patch and weeded out every suggestion of a conspiracy theory regarding the British attack. Unlike DemocraticUnderground which gives a wide berth to all views and even accepts-encourages spirited debate with its Moderators, KOS is a tiny mind who cannot tolerate anything that makes him uncomfortable.

I have the distinction of being accused of posting the "worst message ever" on DKOS. A puke of some repute over there had the arrogance to say that theories of "fraudsters", those who believe that there was election fraud in 2004, are cognitive distortions of major proportions. He want on to say that DKOS needs to perform "mental hygiene" to purge these users and theories from its "sacred space." I just happened by, not that I go there often. Having both a brain and a pulse, I'm most concerned about voting rights violations in 2000 and 2004 and I'm active in doing things to correct the situation. I responded to this arrogant twit by pointing out the similarity between his concept of eliminating users and ideas for "mental hygiene" reasons and the Third Reich policy of eugenics. You should have heard them howl. Of course, my analogy was perfectly correct. They rated me "down", said I was just "awful" and then purged the message.

What a bunch of pansy ass wanna be frat boys.

GIVE ME DU ANY DAY. And KOS aficionados, if you find this offensive allow me to welcome you to express that view. I won't say you're awful or ask that your post be purged.

LET FREEDOM RING."




Amen! Praise your lord and pass the tinfoil!!

[TheGoodCitizen]

68. It's a damn shame that....

more DUers from the OP (thread 1) didn't come over here to post on the 2nd thread... this thread ended a little too quickly, that's all. WHAT A SHAME!

[Walt Starr]

71. All I had to say was in driect response to two responses to my posts

and that simply is undoable in a second thread, ergo, nothing more from me on this one.

[seemslikeadream]

73. We got to get some sleep some time

:hi:

[Beam Me Up]

74. Good morning seems. I finally got to sleep at 1:30 PDT

and am now off to the salt mines.

Hope you slept well.

:hi:

[bloom]

75. I think that there should not be

some weird thing where some threads about the London bombing are sent to the 9/11 forum and some are not.

I think there should be consistency. Not like - "this is a conspiracy and this isn't" - because nobody knows what is going on - and it appears that the mods are making value judgments when that happens. I think they should not be put in that position.

[frictionlessO]

77. The anti-CTers in this thread are not DU activists! Yet...

They tried to say that the CT'ers here at DU were a liable, going so far as to suggest that we should have a similar purge... Ya know whats even more weird? The bulk of the pro CT'ers on this thread are indeed members of the DU activist corps.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1915949

While this evidence is highly anecdotal and in no way a true cross section of DU'ers, I find it bemusing indeed, that people who were trying to cross associate their fellow DUers (in much the same way that Bushco tried to cross associate Saddam with Al Que-da) with holocaust denier sites (which infers by association that we are in fact Nazi sympathizers), or being freeper operatives, accusing us all (implied with such large brush strokes and no caveats whatsoever even after asked for them) of being stupid idiots essentially harming DU and the cause.

Does anyone else think I have too much tin foil to be good for DU? Anyone else care to once again use such broad brushes to characterize anyone who believes in LIHOP re 9/11 as a kooky theorist not deserving of being able to air their speculations on DU?

Personally I was still willing to listen to the straight and narrow type believers till this weekend, the anti-CT crowd pushed me farther down the road of CT due to their behavior. I was definitely willing to let them go on and rip my beliefs to shreds. I was ok with that... but now no longer. As soon as they start quoting anything even slightly suspect, I will quite honestly tell them that I don't trust them. That they will in fact stab me in the back for my beliefs just like any rethug.

The rabidness of these particular anti-CTers this weekend was revolting, the seeking of a purge of us so soon after London and my gods, Andy passing from us, was slick but sick.

They have stained (for me anyway) any credibility they may have had in my view. They were trying to destroy a number of DU'ers that they happen to disagree by way of hopefully getting them purged. I think thats extremist in large and dark ways.....

If they have problems witha particular post or poster they can use the facilities of DU just like the rest of us. They can respond, they can alert, they can write admin.

Once again!

DU is not broke! Quit trying to FIX us!

(and I mean "fix" in all it definitions)

[frictionlessO]

78. Moderators has there been any decisions made yet?

I really want to see this issue somewhat resolved. As Im sure the tin foil haters do to.

[frictionlessO]

79. Skinner made a statement! No purge! Rules still stand for the most part.

I think we can cheer Skinner for having the forsight and the fortitude to not go willingly into the dark night of censorship. Go show him and DU the love.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4081298

My faith has been completely restored in DU now...

[robertpaulsen]

80. My two cents. It's democraticunderground.com not democraticmainstream.com

I just received an e-mail from Greg Palast containing these passages:

George and Tony Get their al-Qaeda Fix
Monday, July 11, 2005
By Greg Palast

The tooth fairy, Santa Clause, WorldCom profits, the Easter Bunny, al-Qaeda.

The cruel, evil jerks who blew up the London subway last week, despite
appropriating al-Qaeda's name for their website and T-shirts, have about as much
to do with al-Qaeda as a Beatles tribute band has to do with the Fab Four.

For all the horror, hoopla and hair-pulling, this was no September 11. Timmy
McVeigh slaughtered a heck of a lot more people in Oklahoma City with his
cow-poop bomb.

I'm not belittling the heartbreaking hideousness of this crime, but let's get
the facts straight. If al-Qaeda is the Panzer Division of terrorism, these
London bombers were terrorism's Cub Scouts. We're talking a few pounds of nitro
wired to a clock -- a design badly copied off the Internet.

more...

http://www.gregpalast.com/index.cfm


Perhaps like me, you have nothing but the highest respect for Greg Palast. Perhaps you don't. What I love about DU is that we can feel free to discuss "conspiracy speculation" of the type Greg Palast is engaging in right now. I don't know what Daily Kos' stand is on Greg Palast, and frankly I don't give a shit. I won't support an organization that engages in such Stalinist tactics with their members. If DU follows suit, I'll take my support elsewhere.

Also, I'm getting sick and fucking tired of the prejudicial disdain toward posters who do engage in parapolitical discussions. Minstrel Boy proposed a Parapolitical Forum which for various reasons the mods rejected. So if he wants to post a theory he's exploring and he feels it would receive the best exposure in General Discussion, that's his prerogative. God knows I've posted plenty of stories regarding Peak Oil in General Discussion, yet thankfully there has been no outcry from posters who are embarrassed for our "bad image" to have them transferred to the Peak Oil Forum. So why such a segregationalist attitude toward stories related to al-Qaeda that they be banished to the "basement" known as the 9/11 Forum? Such an attitude is not Progressive, it's Regressive and Reactionary.

7/7 is not 9/11. Nor is 3/11 or the anthrax attacks. Nor, for crying out loud, is the assassination of JFK 9/11, yet somehow stories posted in General Discussion exploring conspiracy speculation on these subjects were transferred to the 9/11 Forum. That's pretty ridiculous. If the mods won't allow a Parapolitical Forum, then it seems we have a Catch-22. The only logical reason I've seen for this Catch-22 is vanity: we don't want a "bad image". Sorry, last time I checked the rules, General Discussion is for everyone, not just Coincidence Theorists and Mainstream Adherists.

So I'd like to give a big :thumbsup::applause::yourock: to Minstrel Boy and everyone else who dares to ask dangerous questions. For those who engage in discussion by disagreeing with their theories, I salute you as well. For anyone who says 'shut up', or applauds curtailing the freedoms we currently enjoy on DU the way they were curtailed on Daily Kos, shame on you. :rant:

[seemslikeadream]

81. ooooo Greg Palast

How delicious! Is he allowed to post on KOS?

[robertpaulsen]

83. No, I don't think he's allowed to post on Orwellianbastards.com

He's bad for their image.

:hi:

[dogday]

82. Since when did it become so politically incorrect

to ask questions. Right off the bat in the London bombings, Blair himself was throwing out conspiracy theories of Extreme Fundamentalist
being responsible, before he had any evidence.

The point is we don't trust our government and we don't trust what is happening in London because of Blair's affiliation with Bush and the Iraqi war. If anyone thinks that we are getting the picture, they are nuts, we are not.

Wasn't there an article over the weekend about Iraq and Iran signing a security treaty where Iran was going to help Iraq with their army? I have not seen that in the mainstream publication. Question is, is this true, do they want us to know this. What makes this speculation? Because MSM chooses to share or not makes it the truth or not?

Let us remember it took weeks of email to get the DSM in the MSM, so if they don't want us to know they don't print and this is the media we so lovingly rely on? I am not sure this is the right move knowing what we know...

[robertpaulsen]

84. Good point about DSM & MSM.

Fortunately, the mods are cool with Greg Palast as a source in General Discussion. I say the search for the truth should never be compromised. But I guess I'm just :tinfoilhat:

:yourock:

I'll try to find that article. Sounds interesting.

[robertpaulsen]

86. Here's that link:

Last week's agreement includes the search for the bodies of the missing in that 8-year war, the removal of land mines, the training and upgrading of the Iraqi military and $1 billion in post-war reconstruction.

No Comment Yet

The Bush administration has yet to comment on the agreement. The country of Iran has one of the largest standing armies in the region, and asked Iraq to stop the United States from building long-term military bases in Iraq.

Al-Dulaimi, according to BBC News, turned down the request, saying the American forces were still needed for security until the Iraqi army was trained.

"Nobody can dictate to Iraq its relations with other countries," Dulaimi told Agence France-Presse after he signed the Iraq-Iran Pact.

more...

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0712-24.htm

[JohnyCanuck]

85. I agree. Rock on Minstrel Boy.

So I'd like to give a big :thumbsup::applause::yourock: to Minstrel Boy and everyone else who dares to ask dangerous questions.