"Did Bush discuss Plame with Rove prior to Rove's conversations ...

[understandinglife]

.... with the six correspondents?" is the first question I'd ask.

I truly commend the DNC and Gov Dean for their excellent response on July 11, 2005 to the dance of denial and subterfuge performed not once but twice by McClellan. I find these segments compelling:

THE NEXT LOGICAL QUESTION:

3. If Rove is innocent, then why would he claim that he didn't know who Plame was? What did he have to hide? Why was he so careful, saying that "I didn't know her name and didn't leak her name" instead of just admitting that he revealed "Wilson's wife" to Cooper? Even though Cooper's email does not indicate that Rove knew what Plame's job was, couldn't this fact simply mean that Rove did not reveal any more than needed to Cooper?

ROVE AND THE GRAND JURY

McClellan Said Rove Never Told Reporters that Plame Worked for CIA. In October of 2003 White House Press Secretary, Scott McCllelan was asked during a White House Briefing, "Scott, earlier this week you told us that neither Karl Rove, Elliot Abrams nor Lewis Libby disclosed any classified information with regard to the leak. I wondered if you could tell us more specifically whether any of them told any reporter that Valerie Plame worked for the CIA?" McClellan responded by denying that Rove or the others had assured him that they had not leaked any classified information. "Those individuals - I talked - I spoke with those individuals, as I pointed out, and those individuals assured me they were not involved in this. And that's where it stands." (WH Briefing, 10/10/03)

THE NEXT LOGICAL QUESTION:

Did Rove commit perjury in front of the grand jury? We know his initial public statements and his statements to Scott McClellan were false. And we know that after testifying once, they called him back. Did Rove change his answers to the grand jury the same way he changed his answers to the press?

More at the link:
http://press.arrivenet.com/pol/article.php/666790.html

However, Gov Dean and members of the DNC, I think the most important question is:

"Did Bush discuss Plame with Rove prior to Rove's conversations with the six correspondents?"

The next, fill in the blank, series of essential questions are:

"Did (Cheney, Rice, Gonzales, Rumsfeld, Feith, Powell) discuss Plame with Rove prior to Rove's conversations with the six correspondents?"

From the beginning of this tragic and totally un-American act of exposing Ms Plame, it has seemed a reasonable assumption that Rove did not contact those six correspondents without one or more of the following having fore-knowledge and/or authorizing him to do so - Bush, Cheney, Rice, Powell, Gonzales, Feith, Rumsfeld.

That is why I think Mr Fitzgerald has taken more than a year after questioning Bush and Cheney for ~ 70 minutes (and remember Bush had a personal lawyer present).

That is why Ms Miller is in jail; the Ms Miller who worked once upon a time for a fella that Reagan fired, along with Oliver North, for Iran-Contra - Adm. Poindexter. (easy Reference: http://donkeytale.dailykos.com/story/2005/7/8/16033/61733)

Rove is not going to 'fall on his sword'; he is not going to go quietly, and the person most fearfully aware of that fact is Bush.

Bush, the guy who sent lots of folk to their death in Texas, mocking at least one of them;

Bush, the guy who has honchoed a torture policy so un-American, so barbaric as to be almost beyond belief;

Bush, the guy who has directed a ruthless, aggressive war on Iraq; who has commanded the attacks that have vaporized countless Iraqi children and innocent civilians, as well as, sent to death and dismemberment 1000s of American soldiers on totally false pretense;

Yeap, that Bush is afraid of one dude more than any other, for sure - Rove.

If Rove goes down, he will take Bush and a stable full of neoconsters with him.

Let the indictments begin.

WATCH IT; SPREAD IT http://www.bushflash.com/right.html

Peace.

www.missionnotaccomplished.us - How ever long it takes, the day must come when tens of millions of caring individuals peacefully but persistently defy the dictator, deny the corporatists their cash flow, and halt the evil being done in Iraq and in all the other places the Bu$h neoconster regime is destroying civilization and the environment in the name of "America."

[bushisanidiot]

1. Why was Valerie Plame discussed at all? Because Joe Wilson wasn't

following the script. Cheney sent Wilson to Niger to find evidence.. to "make it happen" and Wilson said AWOL Bush & Cheney were cooking the books in order to invade Iraq.

THAT IS WHY PLAME WAS MENTIONED. There would be no other reason Valerie Plame would be referred to in any many shape or form as being Joe Wilson's wife. Why would that fact just happen to come up in casual conversation??? why???

idiot freeptard nutso's.

[whatever4]

4. Don't forget the treason part...

Because this is treason, in it's most dangerous form, at the highest levels. IF it's true.

Until this can be proved and acted upon, treasonous traitors are leading our nation. With little to stop them. The strongest nation on earth is their play toy. With all our lives in their hands, their greedy, bloody, babysoft hands.

Look at this story and think one word: TREASON.

Treason which goes all the way to the top. Impeachment should be the least of what is done. Prison is the only answer. That, or firing squad, which in this case, I would not speak against. No, really, I would not. I would pull the trigger. And YES, I do know exactly what that means. I was military. These people ruin our nation with their every act. The only real defense of our nation right now involves taking these people out of power. And trying them. And in the end, bringing justice to them, as they are so fond of saying. I believe, in this case, death penalty would NOT be unjust. And I don't even support the death penalty.

[peekaloo]

2. as another Dean (John Dean) has written, if you believe Rove

operates without the consent/knowledge of GW Bu$h you are either naive or misinformed.


Tumble ye bastards!

[FreedomAngel82]

8. So true

He isn't known as "Bush's Brain" for nothing.

[whatever4]

3. Anyone that would dispute this possibility

Would have us believe that such actions are undertaken without discussion. Or at least, in this case. They would have us believe that Rove acted alone, but give us NO reason to believe he acted alone, and no basis for believing he acted alone.

It's "prove he didn't act alone".

That is what they will push. As if Rove isn't a senior advisor, as if he isn't a Bush supporter from many years back, and as if they don't discuss ANYTHING except what they are willing to admit to.

No. And there ARE WMD's. Because BushCo says so. And they never lie. And there is no coverup, because THAT idea is just CRAZY.

[understandinglife]

5. Congressman Conyers: "Compare and contrast"

Compare and Contrast

Rep John Conyers

July 11, 2005

Vice Presidential Nominee Dick Cheney, August 2, 2000:

"“They will offer more lectures, and legalisms, and carefully worded denials. We offer another way -- a better way -- and a stiff dose of truth.”

White House Press Spokesman Scott McClellan, July 11, 2005:

"Q: Do you want to retract your statement that Rove, Karl Rove, was not involved in the Valerie Plame expose?

A: I appreciate the question. This is an ongoing investigation at this point. The president directed the White House to cooperate fully with the investigation, and as part of cooperating fully with the investigation, that means we're not going to be commenting on it while it is ongoing.

More at the link:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theblog/archive/john-conyers/compare-and-contrast_4002.html

Yes, Congressman Conyers, they can talk, and talk, and talk, but somehow the truth is always absent.

Let's get all these dudes under oath and start asking the simple, obvious questions that they, as our employees (last time I checked we do pay all their salaries), must be required to answer - NOW.


Peace.

www.missionnotaccomplished.us

[understandinglife]

6. "There is no moral case for keeping Karl Rove on the government payroll."

<clip>

It's possible, even likely, that Rove didn't know Plame was undercover. But that distinction is relevant only to the question of whether Patrick Fitzgerald should prosecute Rove under the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982, which requires that a covert agent be exposed "intentionally." For a White House official to be so reckless as to reveal, even unknowingly, the identity of an undercover CIA employee is a firing offense. Period. That Rove did so for the purpose of smearing a political enemy makes the whole episode even more distasteful. He's outta there.

<clip>

Inside the Bush administration, lying to reporters doesn't even come close to being a firing offense, so neither Rove nor Scott McClellan, who first called the accusation that Rove exposed Plame "totally ridiculous" and then flat-out said "it is simply not true," need fear for his job on that score. But Rove blew the cover of an undercover CIA official. If Dubya doesn't fire the man he nicknamed "Turd Blossom" for this offense, he's an even bigger hack than I think.

From Turd Blossom Must Go by Timothy Noah on July 11, 2005

More at the link:
http://www.slate.com/id/2122393

Yes, We The People.... who happen to be the ones paying Mr Rove's salary, have every right to fire him. Bu$h doesn't pay the bills, WE DO.

Let's start acting like anyone who pays the bills - demand that for which we pay and refuse to pay for that which is broken. Rove is way broken.


Peace.

www.missionnotaccomplished.us

[FreedomAngel82]

9. I agree

I agree with you. They should all be trialed. Plus, they're covering up for Karl Rove who comitted treason. And I remember when they were "elected" the first time in 2000 they claimed the "adults" were back in town. :eyes:

[understandinglife]

14. CNN, ABC offered unchallenged legal analysis on Plame leak from Novak's ..

CNN, ABC offered unchallenged legal analysis on Plame leak from Novak's partisan friends

Media Matters

July 12, 2005

Reporting on White House deputy chief of staff Karl Rove's alleged involvement in the leaking of covert CIA operative Valerie Plame's identity, CNN and ABC News presented unchallenged legal analysis from Victoria Toensing and Joseph E. DiGenova, respectively, both of whom defended Rove and were identified only as a "legal analyst" and a "former US attorney." Toensing and DiGenova, however, are partisan Republicans and personal friends of CNN host and columnist Robert D. Novak, who originally outed Plame in July 2003.

<clip>

Much more at link:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200507120005

Any question remaining about complicit corporate propagandist media?


Peace.

www.missionnotaccomplished.us

[understandinglife]

7. USA Today: "Bush ignores questions about Rove in leak case"

Bush ignores questions about Rove in leak case

July 12, 2005

WASHINGTON (AP) — The White House is suddenly facing damaging evidence that it misled the public by insisting for two years that presidential adviser Karl Rove wasn't involved in leaking the identity of a female CIA officer.

Bush talks with reporters -- but doesn't answer questions about Rove -- Tuesday morning in the Oval Office.

More at the link:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-07-12-bush-rove_x.htm

Someone needs to tell this dude Bu$h that he works for us and he either answers the questions or he is fired - period.


Peace.

www.missionnotaccomplished.us

[FreedomAngel82]

10. Exactly!

He does NOT work for the republicans. Bush wasn't even elected either times!

[understandinglife]

12. "Out those doors, please," the aide told journalists. - "Let'um eat cake."

The 21st Century American version of "Let'um eat cake"!

White House Silence on Rove's Role in Leak Enters 2nd Day

By RICHARD W. STEVENSON

Published: July 12, 2005

WASHINGTON, July 12 - President Bush was asked today if he planned to fire Karl Rove, a senior aide at the center of an investigation over the unmasking of an undercover C.I.A. officer, and he offered only a stony silence in reply.

"Are you going to fire him?" the president was asked twice in a brief Oval Office appearance with Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong of Singapore. Both times, the president ignored the questions.

Then a White House aide signaled that the session was over. "Out those doors, please," the aide told journalists. "Thank you very much."

<clip>

More at the link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/12/politics/12cnd-rove.html?hp&ex=1121227200&en=58863f7c28b3a331&ei=5094&partner=homepage

Hey, Bu$h, YOU ARE FIRED, dude.


Peace.

www.missionnotaccomplished.us - Last time I checked, We The People... pay these folk salary. So, let's act like responsible bosses and fire them.

[understandinglife]

11. SF Chronicle: "The Karl Rove connection"

The Karl Rove connection

Editorial

July 12, 2005

THE OFFICIAL silence from the White House on Monday was quite disturbing.

For many months, the White House has insisted that Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove was not involved with the "outing" of covert CIA agent Valerie Plame. President Bush had personally pledged to fire the source of that leak.

The Bush administration's outrage and pledge to fire the source suddenly vanished Monday.

<clip>

Meanwhile, Karl Rove continues to roam the White House, wielding great power as well as a security clearance.

There is something terribly wrong with this picture. At a minimum, Rove should be put on leave while the evidence that he may have used top-secret information for political purposes is being sorted out.

More at link:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/07/12/EDG8HDLC431.DTL

Yes, and there is something wrong with 'the picture' today - a White House Press Secretary acting as if the American people are here for entertainment instead of facts that we pay his salary to provide.

Mr. McClellan, YOU ARE FIRED.


Peace.

www.missionnotaccomplished.us

[understandinglife]

13. "The media absolutely savaged Bill Clinton at every turn...."

The Indisputable Media Bias

by Cenk Uygur

July 12, 2005

<clip>

.... for what now appears to be laughably innocuous matters. They even made a scandal out of his haircuts for God’s sake. Now, they can’t seem to gather up the courage to challenge this administration on the most egregious crimes, transgressions and salacious scandals.

<clip>

What Hillary Clinton did with the travel office is worthy of a non-stop national scandal, but what Karl Rove did to a covert CIA operative isn’t enough to make headlines?

A complicated land deal in Arkansas is interesting enough to be covered for years, but a male prostitute infiltrating the White House as a journalist wouldn’t interest the American public?

Lying about a sexual affair is of paramount importance to the nation worthy of an impeachment, but lying about why we invaded a country that did not attack us and did not pose a threat to us is no big deal?

Link:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theblog/archive/cenk-uygur/the-indisputable-media-bi_4022.html

It's not just 'bias' - the corporate propagandist media are wholly responsible enablers of all the crimes and abuses of Bu$h and his neoconster regime.

But, worse still, so is every American citizen who fails to halt and hold accountable Bu$h, Cheney, and their entire gang of war criminals, torturers, fraudulent corporate partners, and propagandists.


Peace.

www.missionnotaccomplished.us

[understandinglife]

15. My "DU activist" letter to the press:

Let's take them at their word.

Father:

"Even though I'm a tranquil guy now at this stage of my life, I have nothing but contempt and anger for those who betray the trust by exposing the name of our sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious, of traitors." -- George H.W. Bush, April 1999

Son:

"If there is a leak out of my administration, I want to know who it is and if the person has violated the law, the person will be taken care of." -- George W. Bush, Sept. 2003

Ms Valerie Plame is one of our Nation's foremost experts on weapons of mass destruction. Her job description as a "non-official cover" covert CIA agent is among the most dangerous and most important to our National Security.

No amount of spin, of parsing, of stonewalling can be allowed to protect those who intentionally exposed her National Security role and compromised her efforts, efforts that might well have saved the lives and well-being of thousands of American soldiers, as well as, the lives of countless Iraqi civilians.

Now that Mr. Rove has been identified as a participant in the compromise of Ms Plame, the President must deny Mr Rove any form of security clearance, deny him access to the White House, and remove him from the government's payroll.

The American people need public statements from the President and Vice-President, under oath, regarding their knowledge of the compromise of Ms Plame by Mr Rove and any other member of their administration.

Anything less is a betrayal of trust, and contributes to the current impression that the White House is engaged in a cover-up of a major breach in National Security.

July 12, 2005

[understandinglife]

16. "Only a tiny number of high officials, such as the president, ....

... the secretaries of state and defense, and a few high White House officials even have access to the names of the CIA’s NOC “non-official cover” officers. These are seemingly private individuals who are actually key CIA personnel, whose clandestine activities are run via carefully designed covers, companies that are legitimate from top to bottom and are not in any way thought to be CIA-associated, and have survived years of scrutiny from foreign intelligence operations, and are believed by even the best of them to be entirely non-CIA connected.

From A National Catastrophe by Whitley Strieber on June 24, 2004

Link:
http://www.unknowncountry.com/journal/?id=162

I read Mr Strieber's article last summer. His summary of those within the CIA of "NOC" status summarizes the framework that I used for this thread.

For Mr Rove to have ever known anything about Ms Plame (aka Ambassador Wilson's wife, or however they are trying to parse it) being a CIA employee AUTOMATICALLY TELLS YOU how severe the National Security breach is.

The very nature of a NOC is that only the President, and a few other senior executives of the administration have access to such knowledge; they are the ONLY individuals, other than fellow NOCs and their control person(s) at the CIA, who know they are CIA!!

I've watched this amazingly destructive lie of the Bu$h administration since the day Novak barfed on our National Security. And knew, the moment I read it that Bu$h, Cheney, Powell, Rice, Rumsfeld, Tenet, or possibly Feith had to have been the person to identify Ambassador Wilson's wife as a CIA employee to Rove.

No matter how they try to spin it, it took nanosecond or less for every person in the realm of our own and foreign intelligence services to know what it meant. The mention of Ms Plame/Ms Wilson as "CIA" blew her cover and the cover of every person associated with her whether Novak used the term 'covert' or not.

The White House is full of TRAITORS, at a time when we are at WAR.


Peace.

www.missionnotaccomplished.us

[deacon]

17. I think the white house by backing rove is showing admission of guilt

bush is going against his word to fire anyone involved. bush has aligned himself with someone who is possibly guilty of treason. Bush is covering up for rove, so maybe bush was indeed part of this treasoneous act.

[lovuian]

18. Did anybody hear about the Colin Powell connection???

I read in the NY POST that Colin Powell brought the file on Valeri plame and Bush was there on the plane with his advisors but it also had newspaper reporters on it

Was this Rove's thing that the Reporters would have heard this on the plane but the email screwed it from Cooper

Anybody else hear about this???

[understandinglife]

19. MSNBC: "CIA Leak Probe: Powell's Grand-Jury Appearance"

CIA Leak Probe: Powell's Grand-Jury Appearance

by Michael Isikoff and Eve Conant

August 9, 2004

Secretary of State Colin Powell recently testified before a federal grand jury investigating the leak of the identity of CIA covert officer Valerie Plame, NEWSWEEK has learned. Powell's appearance on July 16 is the latest sign the probe being conducted by prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald is highly active and broader than has been publicly known.

Sources close to the case say prosecutors were interested in discussions Powell had while with President George W. Bush on a trip to Africa in July 2003, just before Plame's identity was leaked to columnist Robert Novak.

A senior State Department official confirmed that, while on the trip, Powell had a department intelligence report on whether Iraq had sought uranium from Niger — a claim Plame's husband, Joseph Wilson, discounted after a trip to Niger on behalf of the CIA.

<clip>

There's no indication Powell is a subject of the probe; the department official said the secretary never talked to Novak about the Plame matter.

Still, sources say the decision to question Powell shows the thoroughness with which Fitzgerald is conducting the probe — and that knowledge about Plame was circulated at the highest levels of the administration.

More at the link:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5570006/site/newsweek/

Perhaps this is what you are seeking.


Peace.

www.missionnotaccomplished.us