The BIGGEST ISSUE is still: Election fraud & reform!!!

[garybeck]

even if there are indictments on Plamegate, even if the approval rating drops more. even if the economy tanks.

even if * gets impeached and they replace him with hastert or another repubnik.

we are still going to be screwed in 06 when we try to take back the congress because Diebold and ESS are still counting our votes.

people keep talking about how we could override a presidential veto, take back congress, etc.... does everyone realize that none of this is going to happen if we don't resolve the election issue? there is too much at stake. they will steal it again.

whether it's exposing the crime of 04, reforming the laws, litigation with existing laws, whatever it is, we have to stay focused on the election issue. MoveOn isn't. DFA isn't. DNC isn't. Who is going to? Is everyone just expecting Howard Dean to do something about it? Well the hour is getting late and they haven't done anything yet.

[brainshrub]

1. I want a verifiable paper ballot.

*sigh*

I miss Andy.

[garybeck]

3. 'verified' is better than 'verifiable'

IMHO, there is a simple equation to fair elections and democracy.

some people want hand counted paper ballots or nothing. I say there's a way to work with the system and make it much more secure. the voter verified paper ballot is one component of the equation.

VVPB + MMRA = Democracy

Voter Verified Paper Ballot
+
Mandatory Manual Random Audits
=
Democracy

Without random audits, the paper ballots (or paper records) are pretty useless.

let's keep the fight going. we can't let up on the election issue.

[Stinky The Clown]

2. I share your concern, but do not see this as the BIG ONE

Yes, it is real. Yes, it can cost us again. Yes, yes, yes.

But sadly, until this is at the forefront of people's barins, the issue will get no legs until **after** it happens again.

The REAL job ONE is the media. Until this issue is discussed honestly and openly, long and loud, we're just pissing into the wind, I'm afraid.

Again, I am NOT diminishing the issue. I am simply saying we can push this till we're dead and still get no traction ...... until we get the media to take it seriously.

And I have NO idea how to accomplish that.

[garybeck]

7. 'waiting until after it happens again'

that is nuts!!! it's already happened again. i see no reason why another one will cause more of an uproar. the media is to blame for covering it up, yes. but we have to find a way to work around the media and not wait for another one to get stolen. democracy is dead!

[Stinky The Clown]

13. Of **COURSE** its nuts

Think about what i said ... don't just knee-jerk react to it.

Right now, the media (and many in the party, for that matter) are paying absolutely ZERO attention to voting issues.

The story will get NO traction until the media (and for whatever it is worth, elected Dems) to pay attention to it.

All the ranting in the world will not change that .... unless that ranting is directed at the media.

This is kind of a chicken and egg thing.

Again, I do not disagree with you about its huge importance. I **do** disagree about priorities. No matter how loud we rant, unless the media makes it a story, we can hammer away and hammer away ... and all we'll get is a sore wrist from swinging the hammer.

[In Truth We Trust]

4. Paper ballots NOW!! Hand counts NOW!!!

[garybeck]

5. Remember this: Saddam Hussein survived decades of 'elections'

and the neocons will likewise stay in power until we bring fair elections back to our country.

[faithnotgreed]

6. you got that right

[tandem5]

8. it's all about comfort...

a comfort zone for committing fraud... it's in the form of close polling, spin control, and public perception. Any effort, including the Rove leak, which exposes these people for who they really are and how they operate, pushes them out of their comfort zone.

Personally I don't think there is enough time to save the '06 elections, but that doesn't mean we can't use that to our advantage. We know what's coming and a fraud operation that's performed in less than ideal circumstances only increases their risk of exposure.

[wiggs]

9. Yes. And thanks...keep issue from being buried by other problems. nt

[CrispyQ]

10. I agree completely with what you say, however, I'm afraid it's too late.

All the Dems I know who were active in the election last summer & fall, with the exception of one, are no longer interested in politics. They look at me like I've lost my marbles when I talk about election fraud. They don't keep up on current events & have no idea what DSM or Plamegate is. A few have even requested I no longer send them political emails.

If the voters in our own party don't care, how will we ever communicate this issue to our representatives?

Sorry I don't have any suggestions, only gripes.

[GreenPartyVoter]

11. I want this laundry list taken care of:

http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/electionreform.htm

[kansasblue]

12. I agree , Gary.

no matter what it looks like in 06 they'll create some incident or 'new attitude' to explain how the public shifted right yet again. Gather money.... sign up voters.........get out the vote...... protest..... march.....vote.....campaign.... find canidates.... letters to the editors... all worth very little when the central tabulators are able to change the counts.

Election fraud is #1. But that being said what is the best way to fight it? And with that it seems like better media is important.

Take a look at IWTNews.org. I like them.

and Votersunite.org is good too.

[rumpel]

14. kick