A message for those who are "glad Reagan died of Alzheimer's".

[liberalhistorian]

There was a disturbing thread here recently where the OP expressed her happiness that Reagan had died of Alzheimer's, and too many posters to the thread agreed with her.

Now, before I begin my rant, let me state upfront that I'm fully aware that the majority of people here do NOT feel the same way and that they are appalled at anyone who would. This is addressed to those who get their jollies off thinking about how Reagan died and who see nothing wrong with that.

My stepdad, (who has been in my life for 37 years, since I was three years old and he married my mother), at 61, has early Alzheimer's; he first started to show symptoms about five-six years ago. It's why he retired from teaching years earlier than normal. While it was manageable and mostly bearable for awhile, during the past several months it's progressed to the point where he may need to be placed in an assisted-living facility before too long. At 61 years of age.

He disappeared for an entire night last February; we had no idea where he was, what he was doing, if he was stranded on the side of a road somewhere, or if he would even remember who he was if he was found. When he was found and we went to pick him up at the police station, he was like a child, he was so relieved and he'd been so confused. He'd driven around all night not knowing where he was and had finally stopped for gas; he drove off without paying because he thought he'd already paid. That turned out to be a blessing in disguise, because that was how we were able to find him. He now cannot go out of the house without getting totally disoriented. He no longer drives because he can't remember how to get anywhere, and doesn't know where he is even when only a few miles from home. And this in the town that he's lived in for thirty two years. He used to do almost all of the driving, especially on family vacations. Former students will come up to say hi and he'll have no clue who they are. He's having trouble at times recognizing even long-time friends. He cannot follow the simplest directions. He cannot do anything anymore without having someone with him and supervising every step, because he doesn't know what to do, even the simplest steps. He can no longer do the simplest repairs around the house, something we used to take for granted that he'd do. He doesn't remember any events or past memories when talking with people. He cannot go on vacation to his favorite spot in the world, the Black Hills in South Dakota (where I just moved to take a job) this summer because he wouldn't be able to handle the trip. There will come a time when he won't recognize any of us anymore.

My 14-year-old son has become his "babysitter", a role reversal that we will never get used to seeing. We are truly, really beginning to realize that things will never change, that they'll only get worse, much worse, that he will never, ever again be the person he once was. Let me tell you something. That is something no one should ever have to experience, I don't give a good goddamn who they are. My stepdad was once a very alive, vital, person who enjoyed life, had a wonderful sense of humor we could always count on to entertain us, wrote poetry and short stories, taught English to decades of students, many of whom became friends in adulthood and most of whom still remember him long after they've left his classes. Some of them even became English and literature teachers themselves because of his direct influence. Yes, he had his flaws and problems like everyone else, but to see the man he was and hte man he is now, and to know that it'll never get better, only worse, that he'll never, ever again be the man he once was and that we knew him to be, is, at times, unbearable. And it'll only get worse.

Do those of you chortling over Reagan's last years of life and cause of death have ANY FUCKING IDEA AT ALL WHAT THAT IS LIKE FOR THOSE OF US DEALING WITH THE SAME DAMNED THING? Do you have ANY fucking clue what it is like for the family members of someone suffering from this insidious, monstrous disease from the inner core of hell? No, you must not, otherwise, you'd NEVER EVER express any positive emotion at all over what Reagan died of. There are times when politics should not even be a fleeting thought, never even a consideration, and this is definitely one of them. Yes, I feel the way most liberals do about his presidency, no question at all, anyone who knows me in the slightest knows that.

But he was also a PERSON, a HUMAN BEING, who deserves sympathy and compassion, as does his family, especially Nancy, for having to deal with this horrendous disease for so long, watching him shrink more and more before their eyes until there was nothing left. The length of the disase is perhaps the cruelest thing of all, and what makes it so unbearable. For anyone at all, let alone those who claim to be liberal, progressive, tolerant, etc., etc., etc. to express any joy at all over it is just unbelievably sickening and inhuman.

[liberaliraqvet26]

1. i agree...

well said, talk like that makes us look like extremist fools

[Nightjock]

2. I wholeheartedly agree with you

I'm sorry for your loss.

[BurtWorm]

3. Reagan himself was relatively harmless, anyway.

Just an amiable facade for the hateful shit done in his name.

[Rich Hunt]

7. indeed

People always inaccurately direct their anger at the figurehead. It's easier to lazily slam the figurehead than hold bad policies and bad ideas up to scrutiny.

[liberalhistorian]

12. Good point,

and very true.

[lala_rawraw]

4. No one should be happy

About someone/anyone dying from any illness. It bothers me to no end.

[Somawas]

5. Very well said.

I have no brief for Reagan. Never much cared for him as a President. I Was glad to see him leave office, and hated to see his gang of thieves stay around for the Bush I administration.

But it was quite sad, indeed that he died of Alzheimer's. That is a terrible disease. And I felt sorry for his wife and children, too.

[Flying Dream Blues]

6. Thanks for this message. I agree 100%.

I hope you and your family find comfort in your memories, and the strength to carry on as gracefully as you are.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

8. I concur with the fact that making that statement is insensitive to the

families of alzheimers' victims.

I concur with the fact that Reagan's illness took a toll on his wife and family.

While I would never say I am glad Reagan died of alzheimers', I don't have a hell of a lot of sympathy for him as a person for any suffering he sustained compared to the suffering he caused both here and abroad. I didn't wish his fate on him...his fate met him regardless of the contempt in which I hold him.

That is not to say that others suffering brought their suffering upon themselves via past acts as I do not believe that to necessarily be true.

I do think every once in a while suffering finds those who caused others to suffer and that is their problem not mine.

[liberalhistorian]

9. Thank you all, especially for your

good wishes and thoughts. It's appreciated.

[timtom]

10. I would like to join the other 2 responders (so far)...

and thank you for your passionate and compassionate declamation.

I won't discuss here my feelings about Reagan, but I agree that there are things of this world that simply shouldn't be politicized.

I'm glad I saw this post.

[pocket]

11. can I be glad that Hitler died and was set on fire?

Or would that be too insensitive to anyone else who has a relative that burned to death?

I won't say that I'm happy that Reagan died of alzheimers, but I am very glad that he is gone and can never come back. Too bad his faux legacy lives on.

[liberalhistorian]

19. Surely, you're not comparing

Reagan to Hitler? I agree with most people here about his presidency, and I was glad when he was finally out of office, but that comparison is beyond far-fetched.

[pocket]

29. yes it is hyperbole

but Reagan was an evil, evil man.

[arcane1]

31. I have friends from Central America who would disagree

not a 1-to-1 comparison, but certainly not too far-fetched, either

[Joe Chi Minh]

43. I wonder if you would ask that question

if you were a South American peon, already struggling desperately to survive, tortured or killed by right-wing goons. Worse, see one of your loved ones suffer in such a way.

Or one of the millions of people, even families in the USA, subsequently made homeless by the political "lurch to the right" he initiated. Sometimes people play a pivotal role in things so evil, and with such far-reaching effects for their fellow countrymen and mankind, as a whole, that it actually is, at best, parochial to view them through a prism of one's own on problems, however dire they may be to you and your family.

There has been an outpouring of rage and righteous indignation here in the UK about the London bombings, mostly admittedly by the media or fanned by the media, as a smokescreen to gloss over the very simple solution.

Yesterday morning I heard on the radio, just the one reference all day, to twenty Iraqi bricklayers suffocating to death in the back of a police van, because they had been caught up in the cross-fire between the police and insurgents. As well as dearly loved family members, they would surely have been breadwinners in a country where, thanks to us, bread it seems, has not easy to come by for a long time. But in Iraq, it seems, it would have been unremarkable, just one of the daily blips - even to the Iraqis themselves.

[Flying Dream Blues]

69. Wow, that really hit a nerve.

As a matter of fact, not too long ago, someone very close to me did, as you say, "burn to death." Your words gave me the opportunity to picture it all again.

I think the point is that ALL suffering deserves our compassion. To be insensitive to the suffering of anyone diminishes us all.

[JimmyJazz]

13. If you read the thread, you'll find that for the most part, the OP and

the few who agreed with her were slammed pretty hard by the rest of us. The thread was also locked because it was deemed inappropriate.

I'm sorry about your stepdad, too.

[spanone]

14. Yes

[unschooler]

15. Compassion should be a hallmark of liberalism.

If we become insensitive to the suffering of others, we are no better than the worst fascist.

[Quixote1818]

20. Absolutly! Thats why I AM a liberal in the first place. nt

[Quixote1818]

16. I am with you 100%. Recomended topic

I have written several posts about this and their is always a handful of people who push the envelope every time. I have a feeling they represent a tiny fraction of us here on DU. I am glad the Administration pulled that thread even though I think they left it up too long.

I became a liberal Democrat because I believe in looking at peoples potential not their dwelling on their faults. Everyone has good and bad in them even those on the Right. As Democrats we are supposed to be about kindness, tolerance, forgiveness, looking for potential in people and acting like adults.

I am not a big fan of Reagan by any means and I could go off about his policies for an hour not to mention his handeling of AIDS certanly cost many, many lives and bordered on criminal. However, criticizing his policies is one thing, wishing him pain and agony is disgusting and I don't want ANY part of it!

[JimmyJazz]

27. Excellent post.

:)

[liberalhistorian]

47. Thank you, couldn't have

said it better myself! And yes, there does seem to be a handful of people around here who do, indeed, enjoy pushing the envelope.

[steve2470]

17. My mom is very slowly "dying" of Alzheimer's and it's horrible

I'd almost want her to have cancer instead of this. Both are horrible, but at least with cancer people maintain consciousness until near the end.

[liberalhistorian]

54. So true, I think that's one of the worst

things to deal with with this disease, it truly is "mind robbing." I think if I ever do get Alzheimer's, I might just take matters into my own hands before I'm unable to do so.

[linazelle]

18. I am hoping that you find the strength to endure...

I am sorry to hear about the pain that you and your loved one are suffering.

[proiowadem]

21. I just wish that he would have been put in jail for Iran Contra.

At the same time I want to make sure no one dies of illnesses that might be cured by more research into stem cells.

[Quixote1818]

33. Your post is fair

Your post is a perfect example of sticking to the facts and not going below the belt. I have no problem with the way you expressed your feelings. Too bad others like to push it to the extreme and start wishing people physical harm.

[steve2470]

22. I know how you feel, my mother has the same illness nt

[Kraklen]

23. I'm not glad Reagan died of Alzheimers.

I wish he had lingered a number of more years.

[LittleClarkie]

24. I had an emotional reaction to seeing Reagan's funeral on television

That I hadn't expected. My father had only been dead for a few months when Reagan died, and for some reason seeing Nancy unable to remove herself from the casket caused me to burst into tears right in the middle of a hotel bar where I was playing trivia. A Republican friend said something stupid at that point. "What are you crying about? You're not a Republican?"

No, you idiot, but I am a HUMAN BEING!

[ronnykmarshall]

32. I lost it too at that point.

Nancy held up so well during the whole funeral. That was very hard to watch when she was saying good-by to Ron.

[unschooler]

34. I was moved by Nancy Reagan's devotion, too.

Even RWers love their families!

[seabeyond]

25. i was bothered by the thread. more than bothered. n/t

[Quixote1818]

35. Me too! I was embarrassed it came from one of us. nt

[ronnykmarshall]

26. Bravo!

[stevedeshazer]

28. Alzheimer's killed my father.

It's no laughing matter. I'd have taken a bullet to prevent what he went through.

[metis]

30. Alzheimers

I'm sorry to hear about your Dad. My father also had Alzheimers. It was so horrible to watch. I would not wish that on anyone.

[unschooler]

36. Did anyone else think that 30 days was a long time to fly the

flag a half-staff following Reagan's death? Is that standard protocol?

[LynneSin]

44. 30 seconds would have been way too long

in my opinion

[Melynn]

37. The right wingers are the haters not us.

Or so I thought. If the left is going to get down to the level of the right then I might as well quit caring about politics.

[proud2BlibKansan]

38. Wonderful post

My father in law had Alzheimer's. I know also how incredibly painful it is to watch a loved one deteriorate with this disease.

One night my mother in law woke up and found he was not in bed. She found him in the kitchen rummaging through a drawer. She asked what he was doing and he said he was looking for a knife. She asked what he needed a knife for. He said "I want to kill that bitch who has been taking care of me". That 'bitch' was my mother in law. The next day we put him in a nursing home.

[progressivejazz]

39. My mother died of Alzheimer's.

And I am not happy that Reagen died of the disease.

I wish he still lived with it.

That's how deep my feelings against that man are. He screwed over hundreds of millions in this country and helped murder thousands in other countries.

I wish he were still alive and suffering.

[frictionlessO]

40. 100 % behind you on this most personable of posts. Your empathy is to be

lauded.

I have my own experiences with a loved one and this wretched disease.

DU'ers who avowed liberals should remember the compassion that comes from the base of all liberal movements.

[Grateful for Hope]

41. I hear you

and, I agree with you. I am so sorry for your pain. Alzheimer's is indeed a horrendous disease.

[LynneSin]

42. Unfortunately we have to agree to disagree

I'm sure he had just as much compassion for all of those who died of AIDS and he chose to ignore what was happening for years. Maybe if he gave a little funding to those who were trying to find out what was going on we could have done something to control the spread of this epidemic. Our government showed absolutely not a single care because to them it was a 'gay disease' ignoring things like the spread through needling sharing and blood supply.

I too lost a close family member to a horrible disease (father - lung cancer) and it pains me to post this. But Reagan was INHUMANE for what he did. hundreds of thousands of people died from his failed policies whether it was his neglect of AIDS or cutting off/downsizing of social services so despartely needed by so many. And believe me, our family was a victim because of cuts to Social Security and my mother being a widow raising 2 children. Thankfully she had parents that helped us get through this mess but many others were stranded with nothing including young people who lost their chance for a college education because of those cuts.

So I'm sorry if you and I choose to disagree. I think you'll find that most people believe that I am truly a caring and supportive person, but all of that including my strong progressive thoughts are tossed out the window when it comes to Ronald Reagan. To me, I hope he suffered long & hard and I hope there is a special place in the depths of hell closest to lucifer where he suffers every day with visions of those who died and/or suffered under his administration.

I'm not a bad liberal nor am I intolerant. My feelings of caring & tolerance are extended to all creatures both 2-legged and 4-legged. HOwever, monsters I tend to think otherwise!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

46. At least Reagan HAD the care necessary for someone with that affliction

and his family could immediately remember him fondly because they didn't HAVE to change his depends...they could let the 24 hour nurse do it.

[LynneSin]

50. Yes, where everyone else had their social service benefits cut big time

and had to deal with it themselves.

What's really strange is I feel no remorse for what I post. I don't hate the guy, I hate his actions and just wish the absolute worse for him - hell more so than George W. Bush, who btw, would have never been President if we never had Reagan in the White House

[liberalhistorian]

56. And yet if a republican were to post

the way you're posting about the death of a Dem, you'd be all over them, calling them "intolerant, hateful", etc., etc., etc. Do you not see that you sound the same way?

[LynneSin]

68. Only if they don't have a 'legitimate' reason for their rants

Like I said - you and I agree to disagree. There isn't another soul in this world either two-legged or four that I would be like this. The Reagan administration was very bad to our family and this is how I am. And not bad in a way that "Clinton's sexual misconducts made my wife cheat on me" crap but bad in the sense that laws were passed that legitimately affected my family in a very adverse way. Also included in my initial comment were others who were affected and hell I just started in the United States - never included Central America

In the long run, I speak from my heart. You may not like what I've said but at least you know I'm honest in what I said, which is what I ask from anyone who I know and respect.

But ultimately I suppose we could thank ole Ronnie for one thing - it's nice to know that from his death helped garner support for a cause that I do believe in and that is stem cell research. Funny how you can find anger in something and yet still see some sunshine through the dark clouds

[Quixote1818]

62. So then you support the torture of Ronald Reagan!

Why do you have to inject anything about wanting him to die in pain?You can make the same argument you just made in your first post which was very well stated and rage against his policies and even his character and thats fine but what the hell good does it do to throw in the part about wanting him to die in pain and rot in hell forever???? Do you realize how bizarre that sounds?

You do realize that equals you supporting 'torture' of people who disagree with you? The only difference is you want God or Nature to do the dirty work instead of a human being putting the hood over Reagan's head and beating him to a pulp. Their is really no difference.

[Pepperbelly]

45. We all have it coming, liberalhistorian ...

and there isn't any particularly pleasant way for it to happen. I've had relatives die from Altzheimers and cancer and heart disease and accident and just about every other cause. They all suck.

I don't know that I rejoice over any death but, as Mark Twain noted, there are some that I certainly grieve for far less.

Far less.

[leftofthedial]

48. No suffering would have sufficed for Reagan

I feel for any family member of an Alzheimers victim.

[noamnety]

49. Thank you for this post

When we rejoice over someone's suffering - even if that person deserved it - even if they committed a violent murder and we're watching a court ordered execution - it diminishes us, not them.

[liberalhistorian]

59. EXACTLY,

thanks for pointing that out! That's one of the points I was trying to get across, although I think my own emotions might have gotten in the way.

[K8-EEE]

51. There Are 70,000 Plus People Registered To Post On This Site

Can we please mention that it is probably a fraction of 1 percent who would say such things and they get slapped down by most of the rest of us.

My friend from High School is dealing with this now with her mom. It's so sad. She was a beautiful, vivacious woman but she seems to have no recollection of her life as it was.

I don't wish this on ANYBODY'S family. Not ANYBODY.

[Qanisqineq]

52. I agree

I don't like saying I am happy anyone died. If I secretly feel that way, I am usually rather ashamed.

I worked at a nursing home while I was in high school. There were a number of people there with Alzheimers, some too young to be in a home if it weren't for the disease and their family's inability to take care of them. Or they just didn't want to deal with it.

Some patients went through a stage where they screamed, and I do mean screamed, for hours on end, for weeks and weeks. It was very disturbing. Some patients had to be watched carefully or they would leave and walk into the street (even though most of the doors had alarms or were in view of a nursing station, etc. -- they find a way). Some believed I was their daughter, some kept asking where their house was, and others would start screaming things at you as you walked by. There were stages of the disease that were really horrible to witness, and there were some that weren't too bad. But either way, it was very sad to watch any of them go through this.

[bluestateguy]

53. Agreed

I lost my own grandmother to this disease, causing great stress for our family.

For those of you who don't care about the welfare of Ronald and Nancy Reagan, think of what it put Ron Jr. and Patti Davis through. They are both good people.

I understand that people are mad after the whole Andy Stevenson thing, causing many people to make these kinds of statements about Reagan's death, perhaps because they know that doing so would anger conservatives. But it is still a below the belt thing to say that accomplishes nothing constructive and hurts the feelings of people who have lost a relative to this disease.

[nashville_brook]

55. sorry for your father -- my father-in-law has Alzheimer's as well

but i think it's unfair to paint everyone at DU with this brush, especially since it's a common canard at the right-wing forums that we are all scum b/c we "took joy in Reagan's degeneration."

Alzheimer's is a terrible illness and it's becoming more common all the time. a solid commitment to stem cell research would be a nice legacy from the Reagan administration which was responsible for many sickening and inhuman things, especially in Central America.

We can have compassion for those suffering from this illness without rehabilitating Reagan's legacy. He's still a wanker.

[hippywife]

57. My condolences to you

and your family. I work in a retirement center with a nursing home and see families dealing with this all the time. It is the worse type of illness for the family because they suffer the loss of their loved one many times over before they finally pass because the essence of who they are dies in stages. There is a new reason for mourning at every degenerative step of its progress.

For those crass few of you who are reveling in his illness, you should know that once they progress beyond dealing with the initial confusion with the fright and frustration it causes, they don't seem to actually "suffer" that much consciously. Some completely shut down mentally. Many of them revert into happier times and see people they used to know in the faces of those in their present lives. There have even been widowed patients in nursing homes who become so convinced that they are each others long lost spouses, siblings, parents, etc. that there leaves little doubt that when they look at that other person, they are actually seeing the face of their departed loved one.

No, through the course of this long, slow good-bye, those who really bear the suffering are the ones that love them and have to watch every single shred of the person they knew and loved disappear in pieces. For a long time before the end, he would have had no concept of who he was or where he was. So you're just gonna have to get your sick jollies elsewhere if you celebrate his or anyone else's demise from this horrendous disease.

Think of the person you love more than anyone else in the world and imagine they no longer know you, that you could no longer reach them. And then pray you never have to do more than imagine it.

[Lars39]

58. You can get hung up over the flame-bait statement,

but the gist of the post should not be lost: Reagan and both Bushes have set us back decades in research that could probably have helped those with Alzheimer's and other diseases.

The US may never recuperate from the scientific brain drain that is occurring right now.

[ChiDem]

60. Comparing your stepdad to the evil Reagan ?

You shouldn't sell him short like that.

Have you seen that commercial that tells you that 'when you serve jail time, your family serves it with you'

Reagan committed alot of crimes, be betrayed this country and violated the constitution many times....you go and feel sorry for Reagan and his circle

[Zorra]

61. Yeah, I feel really bad for anyone that has to witness a family member

go down with Alzheimer's like Reagan did, even if that family member traitorously sold out the people of his country and deliberately destroyed the world's first and foremost great and noble democracy.

I probably would even have felt sympathy for Hitler's family after he shot himself in his bunker back in 1945, before the very pissed off Russians got a crack at him.

Or felt a twinge of empathy for Svetlana as she sat by her father, Josef Stalin's, deathbed.

But it is sometimes hard to feel sympathy for those monsters, both historical and present, that humankind sometimes brings forth, especially the politically powerful ones that kill, maim, and impoverish so many good, innocent people, and destroy so many decent, innocent people's lives because of their blind all consuming greed for wealth and shameful lust for power and fame.

And yes, we can feel compassion for the mass murderers, the serial rapists, the child molestors, the wicked lying murdering planet killing leaders...they do sometimes seem like they might be human beings...maybe....and it is very, very, hard....but it could happen.

[neuvocat]

63. Reagan suspended Alzheimer's research.

If he hadn't done so there would have been a better chance of your stepdad living a longer and better life.

[brook]

64. Bravo for you!

My reaction to the thread you speak of - and others like it - is not to read them - or if I do - to resist commenting. It embarasses me that people I should be identifying with feel such hatred and the need to express it to the world. Hate is toxic and poisons the hater, imo. Isn't it obvious that the hatred that has spewed through the Clinton years and flourishes with the Bush Admnistration is as toxic to this Nation as his environmental (non)policies?

When someone I dislike (as Reagan) dies, what I have is an absence of 'sorrow'. That's it. And, as a few mentioned they had, I also 'lost' it when Nancy became so disraught over his casket. I'm not nuts about her either - but her pain was palpable and any human in pain touches my heart.

I'm so sorry for the painful time you are having - and will have -with your stepfather's Alzheimer's. I've had experience with it as a caregiver, so I have some idea of your situation. I hope that you will feel free to use this forum for support and encouragement. It won't be a one-way street.It'll be an education for many that. sadly, they may draw on in the future.

[U4ikLefty]

65. Sorry that you relate to Reagan out of 1000's with the disease

I guess if Saddaam dies of Alzheimer's you will show the same compassion, right?

Methinks that Reagan's death has hurt you more than his presidency...too bad.

[Stephist]

66. God Bless Ronald Wilson Reagan

What A great Man! ruining the careers of thousands of actors by labeling them communist, his assult on the middle class, the way he lied to America.

I am so glad to know that even "Democrats" can reach across the political spectrum and show this great man the love he deserves.

I think I'm gonna :puke:

[amazona]

67. thank you, it needed to be said

<hugs>

[pinto]

70. Locking.

Repost of a previously locked thread.