So if you're Gay and you try not to be, will your head explode?

[trumad]

For the life of me I can't see how somebody can't be what they want to be. God Damn the societal norms of this whacked out country.

Here's a piece I found on MSNBC about Support groups, professionals coordinate countering Christian activism.

It's amazing...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8543982/

[ladeuxiemevoiture]

1. He was raised Southern Baptist, not the most gay-friendly denom

and "God's love is not unconditional." I mean, how much further does anyone else need to go to recognize that this guy has nothing to say of value?

And another thing - this guy is either an ex-gay "confederate" - not really ex-gay at all, but straight, or perhaps bisexual and what he's really saying is stop having sex with men.

Another thing: faith-based initiatives earned, what, $1 billion last year alone (saw that on another thread); imagine how much money programs geared towards "converting" gays into straight stand to earn? $$$$

[donco6]

14. You've got him wrong:

"He still performs, but now he is equally as well known — probably better known, in fact — as a gay Christian activist and educator exposing what he says is the damage done to gay men and lesbians by religious and psychological programs that seek to reverse their homosexuality."

He's quoting other people who insinuate that "God loves you . . . but"

[Taverner]

16. I agree, that article was written poorly

A tough one to write, but the writer screwed the pooch on that one.

[donco6]

18. Yes, he had me going for a minute,

but then I read further and saw what he was really saying. Very confusing.

[Modem Butterfly]

2. Homophobia makes people do some strange things

[Behind the Aegis]

24. Do you mean like this?

I don't mean to 'hijack' but I think this is a PRIME example of homophobia out of control...Thought Toddler Gay, Dad Kills Son.

[SoFlaJet]

3. no you just become

an oxycotin addict with an eating disorder and spew hatred on the radio to anyone on the left by making up 6th grade nicknames for them-right Rush?

[orion9941]

4. :P

And my born-again/republikkkan parents wonder why I am an agnostic.

[sui generis]

5. I think the best someone can hope to be

who hates "realizing" that they may be gay is to be asexual, and there is certainly a lot of that if you open your eyes and look around.

It's funny, the first thing most of the world thinks of when you say "gay" is bumpin' uglies or buttfucking, to put it bluntly - and there are certainly far more colors in the rainbow than just those two colors, folks.

The fact here in really real reality is that sex is the least of what defines someone as "gay". It's what you are attracted to, and that's not always a sexual thing. It's who you are comfortable waking up next to in the morning, not what you did the night before.

So when these pathetic therapies go down the road of trying to change what sexually arouses you, they are so completely off the mark for changing the core thing that defines you as gay it is IMPOSSIBLE that they could ever really succeed at making such a fundamental polar change in someone.

It's just a further demonstration of their dishonesty and ignorance of the topic. The only possible result from that is harm.

[msongs]

6. it's all about the $$$$ and making $$$$ and getting $$$$$.....

and public relations and self promotion and ego tripping. the core values of the alleged religion has little to do with. and did I mention they are in it for the $$

Seems to me I read that the GLBT desirous of being "cured" has to pay thousands of dollars. It also seems to me that if one was curing gays in the name of Jesus, one would do it for free for the glory of salvation of the lost soul to credit Jesus and the gang.

then again, it is all about the $$$$$.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[Terran]

7. If straight 'society' knew how many people are doing exactly that...

there'd be a lot of really amazed people walking around. Gay people leading hetero lives because of societal pressure--it's vastly more common than most people even imagine.

[Ian David]

13. All those "straight" people are re-producing and spreading "gay genes"

If the Xian-Right wasn't so intent on forcing gay people to suppress themselves, there might be less gay people passing along "gay genes" to future generations of gay people.

In short, if they see gay people as a problem, then forcing them to "become straight" only creates more gay people.

This is brought to you by the same people who decided that killing cats would fight the Black Plague.

Hence the reason why so many Xian-Fundamentalists turn out to be closeted homosexuals or end up having gay children.

[Ian David]

8. DU This poll: Are people born homosexual or is homosexuality changeable?

Are people born homosexual or is homosexuality a changeable condition?

* 9146 responses

Born that way.
69%

They can change.
22%

The evidence is inconclusive.
9%

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8393222/#survey

[sui generis]

10. who cares

where are they going with that?

I am in charge of my own body, and what I do with as long as I'm not hurting myself or someone else is my business, exclusively. Nature or choice, doesn't matter one tiny bit.

In fact, the nature argument could hurt gays tremendously. If you could "prove" it with a test, you could cull it in the womb, and you could put it on your driver's license, right next to your eye color and height, which means that it would only be that much easier to discriminate against you.

[Ian David]

11. I agree. But studies show more tolerance among people who see it as innate

People who see being gay as "a choice" are less likely to be tolerant.

Personally, I think it shouldn't matter.

I think it's how you're born, but I still think it shouldn't matter. Nobody has the right to tell someone else who they should or should not love.

Just remember: Christianity is a choice. Nobody is "Born Presbyterian" or "Born Catholic."

With prayer and "therapy," Episcopalians can be "cured" to become Baptists, for example.

[sui generis]

12. right there with you bro'

I can't believe "those" people would choose to live that lifestyle, going to church three times a day, prayin' & swayin', little crosses and fishes on EVERYTHING, AS IF when baby jeebus returned from the everafter he would need to be reminded how he croaked.

I just don't get it. They should not be allowed to marry or have kids - it just lets them spread their lifestyle choices on to more people and before you know it it will be acceptable everywhere even in elementary schools and kindergarden to believe in something that isn't there and to cede responsibility for your actions to "god's will" and all that other horse poop.

[FreedomAngel82]

22. Exactly

That's what it comes down to. Freewill that God gave us. To choose him or not. When Jesus was tempted by Satan he was offered Ceaser's kingdom but refused. Why? He knew what was more important. In our country we have the first amendment rights. To choose religion or not and how we are supposed to live. Check out if you're interested http://www.christiananswers.net and search their site for homosexuality and see what they say. Heh. The sooner these people realize we're not in a theocracy the better we'll all get along but I'm not holding my breath.

[Touchdown]

9. It's not about wanting to be.

It's about accepting who you are, undertsnding that it cannot be changed, no matter how hard you (or John Paulk) pray, learning look at life with your new perspective and to not apologize for being who you are, and eventually celebrating your unique position and point of view in humanity.

Once one reaches the point of celebration, nobody can brainwash them back to forced conformity, bullshit judeo-christian dogma and humanity denial, and self-hating. Problem is, nobody else can help them reach that. The individual has to reach it themselves.

[donco6]

15. I was in one of those groups for years.

OK, I grew up in a small small town where it was flat-out dangerous to be gay. I hid it, then I joined a fundie church that offered "help" for those who were struggling with problems. I was a fundie for 15 years after that. During the latter part, I was in an ex-gay group in Lincoln, NE. Total misnomer, as no one I ever knew actually stopped being gay. It was just a convenient place to put us as the church didn't have any other ideas about what to do with us. It disbanded after one meeting where we all finally looked at each other and asked, "so, are you straight?" "no. Are you?" "No."

Hmmm.

[sui generis]

17. hiding in plain sight?

How funny -

But also how sad to view yourself as "wrong" for being yourself and feel compelled to change yourself to something that really is "wrong" for you.

It's funny - if you could change your sexual orientation as easily as changing your hair color, and if it wore off like changing your hair color, I wonder if it would even matter as much to anyone. There are certainly enough adventurous people out there who would dye themselves queer for a couple of weeks knowing it would wear off, as there are people out there who would religiously dye themselves hetero for the rest of their lives.

It would just diminish all the big useless crap about gay and straight for everyone and we could all get on to more important things.

[donco6]

19. Well, when you grow up Catholic, thinking of yourself as

"guilty" is pretty much de regeiur. And thinking that it's OK to think you're guilty makes you seek even more guilt, which leads you to fundie Christianity.

can we say, "vicious cycle?"

[sui generis]

20. glad you're all better now!

seriously, it's amazing the mental crap that gets done to us in the name of "fixing" us or making us regret being alive.

The road to hell, and all that . . .

[NMMNG]

21. Great article: Everybody please DU this POLL

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8393222/

[FreedomAngel82]

23. Done

Are people born homosexual or is homosexuality a changeable condition? * 14987 responses
Born that way.
69%
They can change.
22%
The evidence is inconclusive.
8%
at 3:21am eastern.

[Bluebear]

25. But WHAT a stupid poll.

Is that supposed to "solve" anything, MSNBC?

[Warren DeMontague]

27. The offensive implication in the poll is, that if it WAS "changeable"

of course you would want to, and that would be a good thing.

I just. don't. understand. why people give a shit who other people love, or even have sex with, as long as everyone involved is a consenting adult.

And whether or not such things are "innate" or "chosen", doesn't really matter to me, because I think it's people hating other people that's the source of most of the world's problems-- not people loving other people.

[NMMNG]

28. That is the problem with too many people

They never learned the real value of MYOB, particularly when it comes to matters that cause no harm to you or other people. The fundies really have a problem with this because they think it is their God-given duty to save the world and tell it what to do (and how to do it)besides. :banghead:

The sad thing is there is a Bible verse that actually tells people t MYOB--the fundies obviously never saw this one, or choose to ignore it (as they do many of them):

1Thessalonians 4:11
11Make it your aim to live a quiet life, to mind your own business, and to earn your own living, just as we told you before.

[Warren DeMontague]

26. Yeah, I think I'll try not to be straight.

...That'll work.