Nothing will happen to Rove.

[Cyrano]

Wake up, DUers. We've watched these thugs do whatever they wanted to do for four and a half years. Who's going to stop them? The media? The Dems? Us?

They control two and a half branches of the federal government. Yet, most of the posts I'm reading seem to indicate that many people believe that Rove has been nailed.

When is everyone going to understand that the Bush/Rove/Cheney attitude toward the "American Public" is, "Screw off." In other words, whatever they do is none of our business.

By next week, the media will turn to Rehnquist's replacement, or another terrorist attack, or another hurricane, or ... you name it.

It was H.L. Mencken who said: "No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people." Nothing will happen to Rove.

[More Than A Feeling]

1. You're forgetting the legal investigation

which will go forward regardless of the Dems, the media, or the rest of the government. That is why this story has traction, and why it will continue to have a major impact. Fitzgerald took down the GOP in Illinois, he won't let partisan considerations get in the way of his job. Besides, one of the media's own is languishing in jail for Rove. The media won't let this go, either. The Democratic Party would benefit immensely if Rove left, they won't let go either. Rove has created the perfect storm, and his ship is sinking. If we are lucky, he will take the rest of the administration and the Republican party with him. So far, so good. FOX news is openly delusional in that angry way that makes people back away slowly, and this is only the beginning.

[wtmusic]

2. Yep

Rove will go to jail.

[kohodog]

8. This has been slowly coming to a boil for two years

It is not going away now. And Rove is not necessarily the only one to be indicted. They can spin all they want, but that will have no effect on the Grand Jury. There are more than a few frayed nerves in Washington these days.

[Imagevision]

65. And how long did it take before things got shakin with Watergate??

[Cyrano]

12. Fitzgerald is part of Gonzale's Dept. Of Justice.

Why would anyone think that Fitzgerald isn't going to do what he's told to do? And the proof of that is that Novak hasn't been frog marched to a jail cell.

[More Than A Feeling]

17. Fitzgerald is an independent special counsel

Why take down Novak if you can wait and have the higher-ups who are the truly guilty ones, and Novak as well?

[Pepperbelly]

55. Like Archibald Cox, I think. nt

[Walt Starr]

56. Novak CAN'T be sent to jail

He squealed like a pig. He tetified before the grand jury. The ONLY way Novak would have gone to jail is if he had not testified.

If Novak purjered himself, he'll be indicted by the grand jury beofre it adjorns.

[kenny blankenship]

18. While we're remembering stuff

let's not forget Iran-Contra was a legal investigation too. The key targets of the legal investigation got off free, indeed some would occupy high office again. The Prosecutor --another Republican like Fitzgerald, Lawrence Walsh, was endlessly villified. The point and motivation of the investigation was dismissed as crassly political, or alternately irrelevant, since witnesses refused to cooperate, evidence was hidden and often destroyed, and the public was pushed by the corporate media to reject the investigation's lawful authority as it invaded the Whitehouse of a popular president. The public was encouraged to think of Walsh as a loser who just couldn't catch slick badguys and deserved therefore not to catch them, because they were slick and he was square; or that he was a turncoat who was really one of those anti-American liberal Democrats who only called himself a Republican--a snake in the grass. In the end, the departing President simply pardoned cabinet level targets of the investigation before they were indicted, and thus skipped away singing gaily. Walsh remarked "And today the Iran-Contra coverup is now complete."

I hope Fitzgerald WILL get to the bottom of this, but the Republicans are a Fascist Party and believe they are special. They believe in ideas of country before constitution, loyalty before legality, and party before everything. They are calling out to all their membership to block this investigation, to vilify everyone involved on the accusation and prosecution side, and to make it so that Fitzgerald cannot "get to the bottom" since the evidence seems to lead to Rove's big pillowy buttocks.

That's what the statements about "confidence" and "friendship" from Bush and ZombieLady were all about: personal appeals broadcast to the cult membership for their loyalty during this dangerous moment for the cult. What you do to Rove you do to me Bush was saying, Don't let me down!

[More Than A Feeling]

22. all the members of the Republican Party

will be able to do precisely jack to stop Fitzgerald at this late date. I don't think he would have let all this out if he didn't have what he needed already. That is why we didn't hear anything about this for two years. Fitzgerald kept it hidden to investigate before things got too political.

This is a time to pile on and rejoice, not lose hope.

[kenny blankenship]

32. Always glad to pile on

But I've seen Justice cheated so many times... And today the atmosphere is more corrupt and partisan than ever before.

[Walt Starr]

59. Fitzgerald is a deliberate and patient professional

Unlike other special prosecutors in history, Fitzgerald has not been out pushing his case in the media. He's quitely conducted his investigation without speaking one bit to the media.

One key to remember here is, this is not how investigations by special prosecutors are conducted in Washington D.C. but rather how one goes about indicting criminal politicians in Chicago.

[WinkyDink]

28. The real fear

is not for Rove, but for Bush.
While I agree with 99% of your post, I think the message was ALSO one from BUSH to ROVE.

[Cyrano]

54. WinkyDink, I just read your profile and I love your hobby.

And welcome to DU.

[devilgrrl]

3. That's what I said earlier today...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4089799&mesg_id=4089799

[judy]

4. I hate to say this, but I agree with Cyrano.

Or maybe, Rove will "step down", and continue pulling strings from behind the scenes.
I can't imagine how they (and A.G Gonzales) would let any legal action be taken against him.

[andyhappy]

5. I agree

this is small potatoes compared to all the crap the WH has pulled off without a hitch.

it will be a news story for a week and then go away ...just like the downing street memo.

Doesn't matter ...we get all worked up in our internet bubble frothing at the mouth whilst the rest of the country could give a shit...

[Zen Democrat]

6. Aren't you paying attention? There's a prosecutor and grand jury.

They've already jailed a reporter for not cooperating. This is serious.

Buck up, baby!

[AlinPA]

16. Yes, but who appointed Fitzgerald? Lst I heard it was Bush** asst. AG

[kevsand]

39. It doesn't matter who appointed him.

He accepted the position, and he will not stand down until he has followed every thread wherever they may lead.

Please don't be offended, but as a bit of friendly advice, I would strongly recommend that you take the time to at least learn a little bit about Fitzgerald before slandering him in public.

[AlinPA]

44. OK, I've read some about him, Gambinos, R's in IL, etc. Very impressive

But it still troubles me why they would pick such a good prosecutor.

[kevsand]

48. Because they think they can't be caught.

Rove is the original teflon machiavelli. His entire life is one episode after another of pulling crap and never quite being held accountable.

He thinks he's too smart by half, and freely admits that he outed her without saying her actual name, because they think the law requires him to say the words "Valerie Plame" in order to apply. (It all depends on what the definition of "is" is.)

I think they've overestimated themselves.

[AlinPA]

50. OK. I am just going to wait. Maybe hubris will get them. One other

thing about Fitzgerald: (I read a WP article on him)The Asst AG who appointed him is a friend and everyone has great respect for Fitzgerald. Still puzzles me. Thanks for the discussion on this.

[Walt Starr]

60. Because Ashcroft screwed up and recused himself from the process

entirely.

His deputy screwed up and put a consummate professional on the case.

[mode13h_net]

7. If Rove lied during his trips to the grand jury...

Then there is possible charges of perjury and obstruction of justice. You're right though, that they probaly WON'T pin a criminal charge on him for leaking information - but that certainly isn't the only option the prosecutors have here. Until they exhaust every option...

Remember they've been pursuing this for years with news barely mentioning it, and I don't think they'll roll over and die.

[stray cat]

9. Regardless, any thing that hinders Bush Co is good for people.

Maybe it will help the media and some people to wake up and see what is really going on. Anything that reinforces Bush's credibility gap is a great thing.

[dogday]

10. And you don't think at some point and time

the dam is going to burst. There has to be a time when all the deceit and tricks will be brought to the forefront. It is only a matter of time. A Grand Jury will determine Rove's involvement, not the public and not the WH....

One thing about Rove that is not being said much. Rove should of checked the status of Valerie Plame before he talked about her to anyone. He should of known she was a NOC and he should of not disclosed anything regarding her at all.....

[newblewtoo]

11. Nothing will happen to Rove

I keep wondering as I read all the Rove posts what this is sucking the oxygen from. As many state Rove can work from anywhere, even a cell block.

[MissB]

13. I guess we can all stop talking about it then.

[AlinPA]

14. I agree; see my post earlier in another thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4093516&mesg_id=4093589

[against all enemies]

15. I'm afraid I agree. If the press would keep up the pressure

it might make a difference but they'll pat themselves on their back, congratulate themselves for being tough for 2 days, then go back to their ball licking ways.

[Solly Mack]

19. Still got to keep trying

I wonder just what surprise escape Rove is fashioning for himself....because I know he won't go down without a bitter fight and Rove likes to wound people along the way...

but even as I understand that Bush Inc has absolutely no regard for the American people, I know I have to keep trying.


Yeah, they're crooks. Yeah, they're corrupt, with bought and paid accomplices throughout government...but that doesn't mean I stop trying.

[Bouncy Ball]

20. So give up.

Get out of the way so people still working can have some room.

[kittenpants]

24. my thoughts exactly. n/t

[Raksha]

49. Exactly. I don't care if you give up, as long as you SHUT UP!

Nobody needs this kind of de-motivation. As several posters have already pointed out, Rove and Bush and Cheney et al. are NOT gods. They don't have superhuman powers and they can't fight the whole world and at least half of this country forever.

[Bouncy Ball]

52. YEP!!!

Follow, lead, or get the hell out of the way!

[Bethany Rockafella]

21. Keep your eyes on the prize.

Someone blew the cover of an undercover CIA agent. That someone will not get away with it. This isn't the movies.

[gizmo1979]

23. If the grand jury indicts.

There's nothing the neocons can do about it.There's bound to be acouple of liberals on that jury.Not to mention they are probably sick of being on that jury for 18 months and itching to indict.

[Rex]

25. It depends on how much they love Turdblossom

From what I've read, Rove is expendable.

[Stahl]

26. I bet that CIA spooks

risking their lives right now don't appreciate current administration or republican smear campaign against Plame and Wilson very much.

This is so stupid, I mean that even if Rove escapes unscathed and republican fanatics and ignorants are fooled, I don't believe those who work in covert operations are stupid or can be fooled that easily.

At least minimum they can reasonably except is that they aren't stabbed in the back by some slimeball playing politics. Bush evasion from his statements that the guilty "will be dealt with" when the crosshair started to point towards Rove doesn't help the administration at all.

I believe Bush is in deep trouble, maybe even deeper if he manages to protect Rove or whoever was responsible from harm and fool the public.

[RC]

27. This administration is going down.

If not legally, then messy. All this money that is disappearing into the black hole is costing someone important besides the American tax payer.

[tx_dem41]

29. Sigh...another DUer that worships at the altar of Bush and Unkle Karl....

"They are all-powerful and invincible".

Bullshit

Sometimes, I think more DUers believe in that than Freepers do.

[AlinPA]

33. You don't think its possible that Bush**Rove made a deal up front

w/ Fitzgerald? They are rotten bastards. No way in hell they would allow a good tough prosecutor to be appointed. Only if there was deal. Sorry.

[tx_dem41]

35. Go ahead and fantasize that they can do anything they desire....

that's what so many others do around here. Me? After 6 yrs as my governor and 5 years as my "president"....I know they're both incompetent.

[4_Legs_Good]

30. The only way Rove gets off is with a PARDON

because it's not DU, the Dems or the Media who are doing the important work.

Granted maybe they can strong arm Fitzgerald.

I wouldn't rule out the pardon, though.

david

[Imagevision]

63. Rove Pardon? - If Bush pardons before he's impeached -- I believe the

proverbial sh*t hasn't really hit the fan yet.

If anything? Rove will go down as being fired by two Presidents named Bush although I hope to heck he's dragged thru the legal process first.

Treason, that clearly sounds like what it's all about --bottomline!

[Talismom]

31. No matterr how Teflon-like they've been, hubrous always gets this type.

History is replete with examples of this. I just hope the damage to innocent people and our country doesn't accumulate for too much longer before their house of cards caves in.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

34. I don't understand the purpose of this post

Is defeatism something that you think we should be expressing? Do you mean we should stop trying to fight for what's right and give up?

I've seen three such post in the past day and I still don't see what good they hope to produce.

If you feel this way it's your right, but respect the fact that there are many others here who still believe in fighting for what's right for our country.

[tx_dem41]

36. I think that's exactly the purpose of the post. n/t

[Zomby Woof]

62. That is not even close to the purpose at all

The poster is REALISTIC and just advising everyone not to get their false, overinflated hopes up for justice to be done. The poster has obviously learned from history that these kinds of criminals DO get away with anything they damn well please. The system is gamed in their favor.

I get the same accusations when I offer up the same REALISTIC predictions. Nowhere does the OP, or myself, advocate that anyone give up anything.

Just while you're fighting for what's right, don't come back here complaining that things didn't go your way.

I find it ironic that the poster does not advocate that anyone shut up about this, but is being told to shut up for having the unmitigated audacity to present a less-than-pollyannish view.

You can wish in one hand, and shit in the other. Guess which will be filled first?

[AlinPA]

37. I believe in fighting, but how in the hell can we trust a Bush**Rove

appointed prosecutor? (Yes, I know it was the asst. AG who appointed him, but I'm not trusting them).

[Lone_Star_Dem]

38. I in no way intended to imply you should trust bush or Rove

If Wilson himself is trusting of Fitzgerald, considering his perspective in this, then I am willing to give him a chance.

Have you ever read Wilson's interview from BuzzFlash?

Here's Ambassador Wilson's own words:
"The question of whether the outing of Valerie was a betrayal of our national interests is precisely what the special counsel, Pat Fitzgerald, is trying to ascertain. I have great confidence in his commitment and professionalism. It should be clear that the CIA would not have referred the case to Justice, if it had not believed a crime was committed."

http://www.alternet.org/story/23450

[AlinPA]

42. OK, thanks. Had not seen it.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

45. You're welcome

I thought it was informative. :)

[LittleClarkie]

40. We're DOOMED. DOOMED I TELLYOU!!

So what are you, a psychic?

We don't need to wake up to anything. You may be right. Maybe nothing will happen to Rove. Then again, the dude's not an evil genius, just a very astute ratfucker. He's not infallable. It's not inconceivable that something might finally turn around and bite him in that oversized ass of his.

We've got to stop thinking of him as all-powerful. He's just a man. A very smart man, but a man nonetheless.

Even if we don't think anything can come of all of this, we need to proceed as if we think something can.

'Cause we got... high hopes... high hope... high apple pie in the... sky hopes.

Oops there goes another rubber tree plant...

The heat may have finally gotten to me.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

46. LOL!

@ Rubber tree plant reference.

:rofl:

[Just Me]

41. Yeah. You're right. I just give the hell up.

HA!!!! Fooled ya'!!! :rofl:

I am here for the trip,...not the outcome, which not even you can predict.

[hippiegranny]

43. While I fear you may be correct,

given the track record of these heinous criminals, I am heartened by the absolutely terrified babbling by Scotty and now today Bu$h. Combined with the frantic talking points ass covering the right wing is now spinning, these people seem really scared for the first time.

[agincourt]

47. I agree with you,

however just like Bush's Harkin oil stocks, Rush's hillbilly heroin bust, Tom Delays violation of Texas's only campaign finance law, overnight visitor Jeff Gannon , all these things have a point. It exposes how rotten everything in the USA has become. Now if only we could get some law enforcement on it, unfortunately like gangsters the Republican party own the police.

[Cyrano]

68. Sorry to respond so late at night, but I just can't resist.

"We don't need no stinkin' badges." Check out the movie "The Treasure of the Sierra Madre," if you haven't already seen it. It was made in the late 40's, but the "message" of the film applies today more than ever.

[Ilsa]

51. I also fear you are correct. That is why

some people I know believe this will all end with another revolution eventually.

[SmokingJacket]

53. The media is all over this story because they're pissed about Judy.

After all they did for Bush, all that water carrying and brown-nosing, THIS is what they get??? Jail time??

I mean, this has always been an important story, but it didn't get this attention until they locked up Judith Miller.

You might be right, I don't know. These days I've given up on prognosticating. Nothing every happens the way logic directs...

[Fridays Child]

57. B*sh knows that Karl knows where all of the bodies are buried.

Is Karl feeling a little bit panicky about that? Or does he have verifiable proof of this admin's dirty tricks stashed with a dozen different individuals, in the event of his untimely demise?

[Quixote1818]

58. Nothing really happened to Clinton either but look what happened

To his reputation and legacy!!! This is a HUGE PROBLEM for Bush and Rove even if they get off legally! It shows their liars!!!


FUCKING LIER'S!!!:spank:

[Generator]

61. Well in many ways Rove is irrelevant

That's right..it's about the whole ball of wax. I'm as cynical as anybody believe me. I doubt Rove will go to jail but I'm getting the feeling that he may have to be sacrificed..and that would be a blow to the invincible evil ones. It would be the beginning of oh QUELL HORROR the first sign how rotten, wrong, and comprised this admin is to it's very CORE.

It would be the first crack. And that's the whole point of their loyalty oaths and their insistence on lies..because once the truth is out..and the media smells the winds of change it's a new day in America. Or so I'm hoping.

And don't forget, people. EVEN the damn Berlin wall came down. Nothing is forever. It just feels like it.

[Imagevision]

64. When was the last time you've seen the msm do their job??

This story isn't going away -- DSM go hand and hand with the Rove story.

[Cyrano]

66. Nothing will happen to Karl Rove.

Okay, it's after 10:00 in the evening here on the east coast, I've read everyone's comments, and I stick by my initial premise.

Nothing will happen to Rove, the media will be distracted in a few days, and George, Karl and Cheney will continue merrily down their yellow brick (malignant)road.

We're talking here about the scum of the earth, and these people will do whatever is necessary to hold on to power. If you want to put your trust in Fitzgerald, good luck.

The chance of anything happening to Rove is minuscule. And if I'm wrong, I'll post my mea culpa and take all the slings and arrows you want to throw at me.

And for those who think I'm "giving up," or "caving in," please recognize that there's a difference between acknowledging reality and surrendering to it.

P.S. And thank you ZombieWoof for your comments in defense of my comments.

[Quixote1818]

67. This isn't just about Karl Rove.

It's about several people in the Administration. Someone had to tell Karl Rove about Valerie Plame. Rove must comply and choke up who it was or he will be obstructing justice. THAT PERSON IS GOING DOWN!!! And we will have at least one notch on our belt.

The fact that this went this long and Time exhausted all it's options before turning over it's e-mails means that Rove probably didn't tell the Grand Jury he was the one who talked to Cooper. If they asked him if he was the one that leaked to Cooper and he said NO then he will see Jail time.