Clark supporters "The media" thinks Clark did fine

[OKNancy]

No matter what the haters have to say here on DU, as I looked through the national and local papers this morning, and watched the newcasts last night, everyone seems to agree that Clark did a good job.

Most people get their news from mainstream sources, whether it be newspapers, teevee, or mainstream news on the web. I want all Clark-o-philes to remember that DU does not represent the voting public.
DU doesn't even represent the Democratic party.

-------
A few examples from this morning.

Clark shows his Democrat colours
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3140738.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3141396.stm
second BBC article -Clark fights his first political battle


Washington Post- only candidate pictured - Clark
balanced - positive ---- oops lost the link, but it's easy to find.

http://www.sacbee.com/content/politics/story/7485191p-8427442c.html
Clark tested by debate in NYC

Students gauge Dems
http://www.nynews.com/newsroom/092603/b0126voicesny.html
very positive toward Clark

[wyldwolf]

1. I agree completely on this...

each and every point.

[TomNickell]

2. Clark did OK.

He sounded energetic and bright.

Actually, all the candidates did OK. Even Holy Joe.

With that many candidates, there just is not much opportunity for any one to make much of an impression. And there is not much real ideological difference between the serious candidates.

[Rowdyboy]

3. DU resembles the real Democratic party about as much as

Log Cabin Republicans represent the Republican party. What do you say about a group where 70% support either Dean or Kucinich? Sorry, I love this place, but it is in no way representative of the Democratic party-thank God! If it was, we'd never win another election!

[DemExpat]

5. lol....you said it!

Love this place too, but know it's not "America"....

DemEx

[Cheswick2.0]

8. the problem is... american should look more like this place

instead we have the media sucking up to conservatives and america has no idea how it is being f**cked over. Instead of pandering the the stupidity of the moderates we should struggling to educate them.

[bryant69]

12. Aren't you?

I mean isn't that what you are trying to do, is radicalize the Democratic party a bit?

I doubt you will ever get a party that completely satisfies you (I know I won't) but that's how democracy works. We all push for our position and eventually we end up with something that just pisses everybody off. And that's how you know it's working.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[roughsatori]

37. Is it possible to log into DU without reading insults to leftist Democrats

I guess not when some members have more in common with Republicans then with DU Democrats. I do not mean that as an insult to them--just an acknowledgment that it is a fact that is illustrated daily on DU in the last few months.

[Ruby Newsbee]

4. Clark is intelligent, but I'm not one of his supporters.

He looks good and sounds good, but that's not good enough for me. Everyone made good points last night.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-3192931,00.html

Quotes from Thursday's Democratic presidential debate:

``I think if we are actually going to accept our generation's responsibility, that's going to mean that we give our children no less retirement security than we inherited from our parents.'' - Carol Moseley Braun.

---

``If I am president, we are going to build on a new kind of American patriotism. We are going to reach out to people and bring them together based on a concept of public service and contribution to the public good, the protection of our liberties, the right to speak out. And we're going to focus that.'' - Wesley Clark.

---

``You know, to listen to Senator Lieberman, Senator Kerry, Representative Gephardt, I'm anti-Israel, I'm anti-trade, I'm anti-Medicare and I'm anti-Social Security. I wonder how I ended up in the Democratic Party. I'm not a new entrant to the Democratic Party. I've been here a long time.'' - Howard Dean.

---

``The reason I want to be president of the United States is to change the course of America, to make sure that everyone in this country gets the opportunity that they're entitled to, no matter where they live or what they color of their skin, what family they're born into. That's the America I want to be build as president.'' - Sen. John Edwards.

---

``The Clinton economic program wasn't popular. We raised taxes on the wealthiest Americans, we cut taxes on others, we cut spending in some areas that were tough to cut, and we raised spending and invested money in other areas. It was the proudest moment of my time in the Congress, because we lost the Congress because we did the right thing for the American people. That's what I'll do.'' - Rep. Dick Gephardt.

---

``We are going to win by making an investment in our people, to have the best trained, the best educated work force in the world with the ability to retrain periodically throughout the work life. We Americans have had a great tradition of being able to accomplish what we set out to do. We are Americans. The only question is not whether we can do it; it's whether we have the will to do it.'' - Sen. Bob Graham.

---

``I'm not insensitive to the jobs. I'm desperately concerned about those jobs. But you don't fix them by pandering to people and telling them you're going to shut the door. You have to grow jobs.'' - Sen. John Kerry.

---

``Right now, the Bush administration is using the surplus to finance tax cuts for the wealthy. And Social Security, as a matter of fact, is a better investment now than the stock market. There's a higher return. There's guaranteed cost-of-living increases. Privatization you have to worry about the value of your account.'' - Rep. Dennis Kucinich.

---

``The way we're really going to grow the economy is to invest in people, to invest in innovation, to have the federal government put money in the kind of research that will create the new high-technology, biotechnology industries that will create the millions of new jobs.'' - Sen. Joe Lieberman.

---

``When you have nonbid contractors rebuilding Iraq, if any Democrat holding office in this country had given away those nonbid contracts, they would be in front of a grand jury, probably in court as a defendant.'' - Al Sharpton.

[OKNancy]

7. You are right, they all did pretty good

but to read DU about Clark, you would think he got up there and scratched his balls, harked a loogie, and then exclaimed, "God Bless Dick Cheney"

[Ruby Newsbee]

15. I can certainly understand why some are opposed to Clark

He's Clinton's choice.

I'll wait and see what plans he claims to have concerning Iraq, the war on terror and our economy. I heard a lot last night about how the Dems wish for the Clinton economic days, but I don't think we can ever get back there with a looming deficit and lack of jobs. It's going to be interesting to see if we can turn this boat around and get moving in the opposite direction.

[OKNancy]

16. "Clinton's choice"

Proved my point --- that's a Right-wing talking point.

My response --- So what?

[Ruby Newsbee]

19. I don't think it's just a right wing talking point.

Of course they're opportunists and jumped on that bandwagon, but I think Dems who know Clark is Clinton's choice have every reason to be cautious. Dean is against the DLC and is very loud about it. Clinton doesn't like that one bit. They needed someone like Clark to appeal to those who think he looks good and sounds good and don't have to venture any further than that. It's too early to determine just what kind of Democrat Clark will make, but I'm almost certain it will mimick Clinton in every way. I don't want to be appeased, I want to be SERVED. That is their job isn't it?

[kayleybeth]

18. LOL!

You are so right! Thanks for the first laugh of the day :) :)

[newyawker99]

40. Hi Ruby Newsbee!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[AnnabelLee]

43. Ruby Newsbee

Please edit your post to include no more than four paragraphs, per DU copyright rules.

Thank you
AnnabelLee
DU Moderator

[kstewart33]

6. I agree

I scanned the coverage this morning (NYT, WPost, USA Today, LATimes) and the consistent view was that he held his own.

Not bad for a guy who's been in the race alittle over a week.

Overall, I agree with the other posters. Everyone did well. There are just too many candidates though so it's hard to get a substantive sense of any candidate in these debates. It's time for a few to drop out--Braun (though she's done very well in the debates), Kucinich, Lieberman.

[OKNancy]

14. Lieberman is NOT going to drop out

I agree with you wholeheartedly that the field is too large, but Lieberman won't drop out. Not picking on you at all, because to read DU you would think Lieberman is universally hated. He isn't.

I can't stand him, but it's mostly because he is a loser for the Democrats.

[EagleEye]

9. Clark did not hurt himself but...

He also showed he is no god. He looked and came across very average.

[MoonRiver]

10. He did great. Comments against him are simply part of a smear

campaign. People who are after Clark seem to be part of an unholy (big time) alliance between the far right and some sincere (but IMHO, off the wall in this instance) Dem activists for other candidates.

[Kahuna]

11. He held in there, which is the best we could have..

expected. The debate was an economic policy debate, and I don't think any Wes Winger thought Clark was going to knock anything out of the park. We just prayed that he wouldn't get bloody and he didn't. Mission accomplished.

[CWebster]

13. "Hands off General Clark" -

The NYTimes mentions they gave the General a pass. Whether it is because he is the new face in the mix or whether anyone hesitates, unsure of how to address a general indentifying himself as a Democrat, or whether the strategy is to circle the wagons around Dean, we have yet to see if the "teflon" layer is starting to be applied.

Hey, anytime you want to go for it Kucinich--let's see what you are really made of when it comes to face-to-face.

[OKNancy]

17. Why should Clark go against DK?

DK is a gnat.

[CWebster]

20. if you measure strength by military prowess

Clark is a gnat next to Ghandi.

What is it with you fools that you so enthusiastically embrace the military representitives to head the government? doesn't THAT make you nervous?

[OKNancy]

21. Let's see who the fool is?

Get this straight....Clark is no longer in the military. He's a civilian now. Most Clark supporters think the background is an advantage but not the prime reason for their support.

You are pretty good CWebster. You know how to just skirt the DU rules and not get moderated.

Let me try one- Kucinich supporters are fools if they think he has a snowballs chance in hell of getting the nomination.

Kucinich has been pro-choice a lot shorter time than Clark has been a Democrat.

[CWebster]

25. Let me know what you think

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=408436&mesg_id=409330&page=

[OKNancy]

29. I think Billy Bunter expresses my opinion

on this matter.

[CWebster]

33. Personally

I wonder why Billy Bunter even posts here considering all his snide remarks about liberals and the Left in general. So, I guess you answered the question as expected.

[clar]

22. Oh,

so any remark critical of Clark is part of a smear by haters, but it's OK to call DK an gnat? Nothing like a spot of hypocricy with my morning tea.

[OKNancy]

27. That particular

poster has proven themselves as a Clark hater. Tell you what, you are a big Dean cheerleader and you hate it when Dean is smeared with crazy crap that pops up from time to time. right? I read something to that effect just this morning. Let's talk about hypocrisy. Why don't you defend your guy and I'll do the same.

Dean is a viable candidate, Kucinich isn't.

[CWebster]

31. Personal attacks

are against the rules. I am entitled to a POV, am allowed to question and you are not going to shut me up--although the intent of your crowd seems to feel far too comfortable with suppressing honest inquiry and commentary. Dishing out crap to everyone else and then squealing when anyone else makes an observation that isn't fawning in praise of the General. Please, I've written posts here, if you really were that observant, that stated that Clark wasn't the disaster in the debate last night that some of your fellow supporter were screeching in despair about.

[clar]

34. An attempt at accuracy

would behoove you. I'm a Dean supporter. I've posted threads critical of him. I posted a thread this morning in which I stated that I welcomed attacks on Dean; I think they test his mettle. I do not call other candidates names no matter what the provocation. Nor do label large numbers of people haters because they disagree with me. If you were referring to one specific individual you should have made that clear.

[OKNancy]

35. It's been fun

but real life beckons.
I think I'm pretty mild in the name calling area. But I will think about what you wrote.

Now....off to buy birthday presents.

[Terwilliger]

38. you're getting me a present??

awwwwwwwww :loveya:

[Zuni]

23. I think he did fine

although last night's star performer was Sharpton. Kerry did really well.

[Padraig18]

24. I'm not a Clark supporter

Having said that, General Clark did well yesterday, and would make a fine candidate, if nominated. :)

[jcgadfly]

26. "The media supports Clark."

With the blatant conservative bias of the mainstream media, should their support of Clark be a cause of concern?

Also to the people who say "He's a civilian now", if that's true he needs to campaign on that. Right now, everything I see about him is prefaced by "Former General Wesley Clark..."

[OKNancy]

30. "Former" Doctor Howard Dean

Dean doesn't practice anymore does he. Should he not use that title?

[jcgadfly]

36. Good point

However, his supporters tend to cover up Clark's positions on domestic issues by saying "He's a military man."

I just don't want to see people be taken in by the glare of his medals and not look at the person.

[NashVegas]

28. What Do You Expect from the "liberal media" who trashed Gore?

I mean, seriously.

Or how about those who called Bush's 2000 debate performance "masterful"?

The media is working overtime to choose our candidate for us, the script has been written.

FTR, Clark wasn't bad last night, IMO - he just didn't command the place like the press is making it out to be.

The initial impression on DU immediately following the debate was that Edwards, if anyone, came out looking best.

[welshTerrier2]

32. Not all the Media thought Clark did "Fine"

i read recaps of the debate in today's NY Times and today's Boston Globe ... in addition to that, i watched the debate ...

you indicated that the media said Clark did "fine" ... well, if this means he didn't make any colossal mistakes, i agree ... but if "fine" implies that he did "well", i do not agree ...

Clark was a mouse among lions in the debate ... he "looked good", spoke clearly and seemed like a nice fellow ... but he offered very little to the policy discussion ... if we are to cut him a break because he just entered the race, no problem ... but to say that he did "fine" somewhat overstates the case ... his attendance at the debate was for show only ... Clark was bland and was not specific unlike all the other candidates who presented detailed, well thought out positions on a broad spectrum of issues ...

here's an excerpt from today's NY Times:

source: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/26/politics/campaigns/26DEMS.html


<snip>

The Democratic presidential candidates squabbled intensely over tax cuts, health care and trade policy yesterday afternoon at a debate in Manhattan, trading often personal attacks. But the newest entrant to the race, Gen. Wesley K. Clark, stood on the sidelines and was largely ignored for much of the first debate of his political career.

<snip>

But the general's debut — in which he swiftly sought to affirm his Democratic credentials — was overshadowed by detailed and often sharp disagreements about defining issues like tax cuts among the nine other Democrats for whom this has become a familiar exercise.

<snip>

General Clark, who is retired from the Army, looked crisp and confident throughout the debate. If he was often ignored by the other candidates, the questioners from The Wall Street Journal and CNBC, the debate's sponsors, did not try to draw him into some of the session's more detailed policy discussions.

<snip>

At several points, General Clark noted that he was new to the game. He declined, for example, to offer health care plans to match those that had already been suggested by most of his opponents.


i have not written this to criticize Gen. Clark but rather to show that not all "the media" thought Clark did "fine" ... he has a long way to go before he deserves anyone's support ... when he's able to present detailed programs on the key issues, and defend his positions in debates with the other candidates, only then will supporting him be worth considering ...

[RichM]

39. OKNancy writes "No matter what the haters have to say here on DU..."

This is so very typical of the pushiness & zealotry of Clark supporters. It apparently does not occur to OKNancy that it's possible to oppose Clark's candidacy for reasons that have nothing whatever to do with hatred.

The assertion here is, essentially: Either you support Clark, or you're a bigot. :eyes:

Then there's the little problem with the logic. The tacit assertion here is that because SOME mainstream media said Clark did fine, one can take it to the bank that he did fine. Of course, some mainstream media did NOT say he did fine. Solution for the Clark supporter? -- just ignore that, & speak only of the positive reviews. // And, umm, don't we know by now that what the mainstream media says is worth almost nothing?

[dfong63]

41. it's a preemptive strike, Bush's favorite tactic

... instead of responding to actual criticism of their idol, they attack the character of potential critics, in advance, to discourage critics.

[RichM]

42. Exactly right.

[chadm]

44. Of course they do

he didn't say anything "real"...just like the babble you get from the media. He's speaking their language.

[dfong63]

45. in another striking parallel, the media seem to think Arnold did fine too