Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

BBV question

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
Lurking Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 09:04 AM
Original message
BBV question
Let me get this right because I may be confused.

Diebold now has the personal information of everyone registered at BBV? Is this correct??
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
DEMActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
1. Hell no!
What would make you think that?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gristy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
2. Huh?
Apply a 5-sentance rule to thyself. What do you mean BBV? Do you mean blackboxvoting.org? blackboxvoting.com? I wasn't even aware that people "register" on those sites. Whatever for? What "personal" information?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DEMActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. They register just like here at DU
for the message board. In fact, the software used at bbv.org's message board is the same as DU1.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gristy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Oh, that's right.
They have a message board now. I lurked once but didn't register.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
3. Yeah, 'splain yourself
and quick

Eloriel
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TorchTheWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Eloriel
Just to let you know, I can't reply to your PM as I don't have PM privileges yet (kind of odd that I can get messages but can't respond to them). Short answer - it has nothing at all to do with your perceptions (how cryptic of me). I saved my longwinded explanation to send when I can use the PM feature.

Move along everybody... nothing to see here.

Carry on...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lurking Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. Email from BBV
about Diebold confiscating files from the site including personal info.

I hope I am mistaken.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DEMActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
6. I would like an answer to the questions
What led you to this conclusion? Where is this coming from?

Since my personal information was on that site, I feel I have the right to know what the hell you are talking about!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Call me and I'll 'splain...
I can't PM you.

David Allen
Publisher, CEO, Janitor
Plan Nine Publishing
1237 Elon Place
High Point, NC 27263
http://www.plan9.org
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
9. Well somebody should tell us what's going on.
stop this secret stuff!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TinfoilHatProgrammer Donating Member (379 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
10. don't be silly
If Diebold knew who thse people were, they'd all surely be dead by now. :eyes:

JC
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
punpirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
11. I am hoping...
Edited on Fri Sep-26-03 10:05 AM by punpirate
... that you are in the midst of a misapprehension. Since you began this thread, would you please respond to the questions asked of you about how you came to this conclusion? What led you to believe that because the webhost removed the site that all of the data on that site is now in the possession of Diebold?

Cheers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. I don't care if they know. I am not afraid of them.
What happens to me is not as important as what happens to our voting rights.

We are all here on this board because we care about our country. Fear is the tool of the corporate thugs. Don't let them silence you. They want control of our country through corruption of our ballots, we must not let them. They have gained control of our government, media, and courts, all that is left is our vote. Don't let them steal our only voice.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. If you got a black list, I want to be on it!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TinfoilHatProgrammer Donating Member (379 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. sign me up
Me too! I'm not hiding from the Diebold death squads. :thumbsup:

JC
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
qb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
16. Bev said "Get the word out", so I assume it's okay to post this:
Here's what you can do to help: Get the word out far and wide that Diebold has done this thing.



1. Diebold issued a pull-down demand under DMCA for the BlackBoxVoting.org web site, citing a link posted on a forum in the site, claiming that the link allowed web visitors to visit an unrelated page, containing Diebold internal memos, which they say they own the copyright to.



2. Not only was BlackBoxVoting.org pulled down, but ALL of the documents, databases and programming for approximately 500 pages of material, most of which did not relate to Diebold at all, was confiscated. Dozens of web pages were pulled down which had nothing whatever to do with the disputed information. AIT Inc. has indicated that it believes it has the right to pull down the entire web site including unrelated pages. AIT Inc. is now prohibiting Bev Harris or Black Box Voting from accessing any of her own files, even for the purpose of removing them.



3. The confiscated pages included personal contact information for 200 activists, and the private strategy sessions for voting machine activists. BlackBoxVoting.org has yet to receive any explanation at all as to what authority they were confiscated under. We demand their immediate return.



4. Most of the memos in question were written in Canada, and resided on a server in Canada up to and including 2003 after Diebold bought a Canadian company called Global Election Systems. In Canada, company correspondence, even internal memos, is not protected by copyright. To date we have been unable to find evidence, other than a claim in a letter, that Di! ebold even owns the copyright to these memos.



5. These memos are more properly termed "Evidence," because they contain evidence of a pattern of lawbreaking that dates back at least to 1999.



6. Lexis-Nexis would be a worthwhile exercise now for every one of these search terms pertaining to the origins of Global Election Systems: This firm was a wholly owned subsidiary of North American Professional Technologies, Inc., which was in turn a wholly owned subsidiary of MacroTrends Ventures International, Ltd. Charles Hong Lee is one of the principals with these firms; He has been tied in the press to participation in a scheme to bilk immigrants out of some $47 million; he is also connected with a scandal in which a Mr. Graye was prosecuted, relating to Vinex Wines. Charles Hong Lee was also involved with something called "The Vancouver Maneuver," a stock pump & dump scheme that bilked investors out of millions in connection with an entertainment company and something called Beverly Development. Charles Hong Lee was a principal with Global Election S! ystems, along with the late Clinton Rickards. Talbot Iredale, currently the V.P. for Research and Development for Diebold Election Systems, began with the company in 1991, right around the time the Vancouver Maneuver was exposed in Barron's magazine. This is the pedigree from whence the Diebold Memos arose.



====================================

Here is a contribution originally from Slashdot, made available for the Black Box Voting book by Donald Way.

(Diebold: This is satire and meant for entertainment purposes only. If you would like to spend several more $500 per hour lawyer fees suing us over satire, go right ahead.)



CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT

Pending: your vote is now the property of Diebold, Inc. Any attempt on your part to ascertain the disposition of your vote is hereby declared to be in violation of federal law, e.g., the Digital Millenium Copyright Act.

You have the right not to vote. Any vote you make can be used against you in a court of law. The judge presiding in such a court of law may be appointed by Diebold, Inc., and need not require a jury, but if a jury is summoned, it need not be a jury of your peers.

By acting to vote you consent to our determining whether your vote is valid, and in the event it is judged not to be valid, you consent to our voiding your vote and further voiding your right to vote in the future.

You furthermore acknowledge that owing t! o storage and bandwidth limitations that Diebold, Inc., may experience, your vote may be digitally compressed in a way such that your true intent in casting the vote may be lost. If such an eventuality should occur, your vote may be determined using statistical data derived from any source we deem appropriate or convenient.

You have the right to protest if your vote is cancelled, altered, or in any way modified as the result of such action on our part, however, you hereby acknowledge that in such an eventuality, Diebold, Inc. may determine that your right to vote is deleterious to democracy as implement by Diebold, Inc., and therefore may be considered to be an overt act against the national security of these United States.

You have 10 seconds to comply.

God Bless America
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. I presume AIT, inc. is the hosting company?
I think they're as much involved in this as Diebold. We all know Diebold is super-evil, but why did AIT fold so quick?

But I think people can relax, pulling the files down doesn't mean giving the files to Diebold. That wouldn't make much sense to me, what kind of hosting company would give personal info to a corporation, because of a copyright dispute?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TinfoilHatProgrammer Donating Member (379 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. interesting
5. These memos are more properly termed "Evidence," because they contain evidence of a pattern of lawbreaking that dates back at least to 1999.

They're also more properly termed "evidence" because the material (internal email) in question was stolen. One poster on the message board also appears to take credit for procuring said stolen material, and for subsequently posting it in Italy and then in Korea. The same poster then followed up by publishing photos and home phone numbers for a number of Diebold employees -- ostensibly so that these people could be harrassed or threatened. I'm sure that any information about that particular poster would constitute "evidence" as well.


JC
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
punpirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. Confiscation doesn't mean that Diebold has those files....
It may simply mean that they reside on the webhost's server at the moment, and have not been forwarded to the site owners.

This is not entirely about the items to which Diebold objected, which existed on the bbv.org site. Behind the front page and its links to Diebold memos, there existed the whole of the discussion forum, much of which was private and therefore was not accessible through the web by unauthorized people.

That's the gist of this email--not that all private forum information had been turned over to Diebold, but, rather, that the webhost has not sent the forum software and collected messages back to its owner/operators.

It's an indication that the webhosts have been scared by Diebold and legal counsel and don't want to do a damned thing further.

If the webhost turned over the forum and private subscription information to Diebold without court order, then they will likely be looking at an invasion of privacy lawsuit which will bankrupt them.

Let's put it this way--if the webhost turned over my name to Diebold, there's going to be hell to pay. I will see to it that they will spend a substantial amount of time in court and suffer for it. If they did so at the request of Diebold, I will own Diebold by the time I'm done with them.

Cheers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TinfoilHatProgrammer Donating Member (379 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. own diebold?
I will see to it that they will spend a substantial amount of time in court and suffer for it. If they did so at the request of Diebold, I will own Diebold by the time I'm done with them.

What color is the sky in your world? :thumbsup:

JC
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
19. Hopefully the data was all "hardcopied" and locked away somewhere
and the "strategy sessions" were NOT online :).. Somehow, I rather doubt that anyoone who registers ANYWHERE on the web has one single shred of anonymity left, anyway.:)

What I don;t understand is how they got jurisdiction over CANADIAN sites.:(

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. Well
Not only did I never download aforesaid alleged illegal files but I didn't register at the BBV site mainly because I was either too lazy or incompetent to fish out my ICQ number. Nor do I have web pages.

I do have one online book(non BBV, non political) that needs publicity. If Diebold would like to PM me on that I would gladly give them the opportunity to steal it. Then I could rush it to a print company. It is anti-fascist after all.

This kind of grab is more than what the FBI is usually able to do legally even with the Patriot Act, but it is the wild wild Internet.

And Diebold is substituting itself for the lawful governemnt anyway by adjudicating our elections. Why not act like Ashcroft?

Diebold is a bastard company from a legal perpective.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Dec 27th 2024, 03:00 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC