So how do you deal with anti-gay rights people?

[FreedomAngel82]

I've tried everything to show that just because I believe in the Bible and other Christians do doesn't mean that what the Bible says is our law and I've told how laws are made a things like that. I've also asked how come I'm more recognized by the law because I'm straight and white and born in the right family etc. So how do you deal with it?

[cynatnite]

1. It's coming and there ain't no stopping it

That's what I told the last RWer I talked to. He didn't want to admit it, but he knew it was.

Gay marriage is coming, it might take a little while, but I've always believed it.

[FreedomAngel82]

2. It'll probably be like

how the African-Americans took forever to be true citizen's. But what do you tell people though? How do you make them see?

[cynatnite]

10. I've basically said gays are people, too

It's lame, but when I say it so simply, they back off to an extent. It really depends on who I talk to.

BTW, I'm not gay.

[mcctatas]

3. Unfortunately, for fundamentalist bible believing Christians...

This is a matter of faith, and along with abortion is non-negotiable. You cannot argue or debate with beliefs based on faith rather than reason. Sometimes you just have to accept it and move on or you will go crazy trying to make them see the light.:shrug:

[funflower]

6. Funny, isn't it? The Bible says very, very little about gays (as compared

to, say, the evils of money) and nothing at all about abortion.

[mcctatas]

12. Sometimes I think they get a different version of the Bible at their

brainwashing ceremonies, but are told God wants them to keep it secret, so they just quote the normal version.:crazy:

[funflower]

17. They definitely get a different interpretation. Don't think many have

actually read the Good Book.

[funflower]

4. They need to have gay friends. The only way to cross that bridge is

to actually know the people involved.

[FreedomAngel82]

8. It still

probably won't work. Some people I'm thinking about do agree about civil union's to where you can keep God out and have it to where the law can recognize the relationship, but some aren't either.

[funflower]

13. It seems strange that several denominations already bless these

unions and several states are seriously considering providing a "civil" (e.g. godless) state of matrimony. But, somehow, the two can't be mixed in one ceremony.

[w8liftinglady]

31. I agree...

My best "work" friend is openly gay(a nurse,like me).Patients and their families are initially a little leary of him,but after a while,they learn to love him,just like I do.I had this very conservative Christian lady bring some old fabric for him to make into a quilt,and hug him the other day...and then give us all leaflets about saving our souls.

[Lecky]

5. I try to stay away from bigots

...there is no rationalizing with them. I honestly believe they don't like gays and just use the Bible to justify their homophobia.

It's impossible for me to be nice or show any respect for people like that. I admire anyone with the patience to deal with those people, but it's really hard not to show my contempt when face to face.

I think people only change their opinions by their own personal experiences...it's hard to persuade someone to change their attitude and beliefs.

[merwin]

7. Tell them to go fuck a sheep and get on with their lives.

There's nothing you can say to them to change their minds. Most were raised that way and it's not something in their mind that can be switched off.

The example I give:
Most people in the USA think eating a dog is gross. There's nothing you can say or do to someone to change their minds. That's just how they were brought up. However, in some places, it's perfectly normal to eat a dog every now and then.

[DanCa]

9. Heres what I tell 'em

Basically I start by asking them one of two things.
1) How many gay people do they actually know in real life?
and
2) Gay People are human beings and Tax Paying American Citizen and therefore have all the rights as straight people.

[FreedomAngel82]

11. I've tried that

I gave the John Lewis quote from when he was talking with Hillary about the SCOTUS and he said "no one should be left out or behind". I always compare gay's to the anti-black rights but they always just say the Bible talks about homosexuality being wrong but not being black and I also talk about how if I lived in the 50's or 60's and wanted to marry a black man I would be told the same things as a gay person is today.

[funflower]

14. The basic problem is in the phrase "gay person." Many people don't

recognize that a person can actually be gay. They believe it is a behavior, not a characteristic. Until that viewpoint can be overcome, they will always be "anti-sodomy" not "anti-gay-people."

[DanCa]

20. I confess

I dont know many gay people and I am not a biologist or a theologian. All I do know is that I was taught to treat people the way i want to be treated. Regardless of the orientaitation, religion, or ethinicity.
It's amazing that so many people get there misinformation from televison and sterotypes. It's quite pathetic actually. And it just sickens me whenver that pig jerry falwell opens his mouth and slurs people. Sorry for the ramble. I am better now.

[DanCa]

16. Basically when the rw wingers and I get into arguements

They just start shaking thier heads and walk away. I just cant figure out what the hang up is. Where supposed to love our neighbor as ourselves. Maybe the Fristian's should read the real ten commandments for themselves instead of forcing a make believed set of false teachings on everyone else.

[Maple]

15. Gays are totally equal

when it comes to paying taxes.

How come they're not equal the rest of the time?

[Maraya1969]

18. There are plenty of quotes pages on the net. I'm sure there are

some good pro-gay ones. I like: "It doesn't' matter who you love but that you love"

And when they talk about the sanctity of marriage I tell them that the only people that ruined the sanctity of my marriage was me and my husband.

[cynatnite]

19. We need people like this:

http://www.teach-ministries.org/

After the suicide of her daughter in February of 1997, Mary Lou Wallner found herself faced with a spiritual journey to try to comprehend the events of their stormy mother-daughter relationship and the implications of her refusal to accept Anna's homosexuality.

[FreedomAngel82]

21. Thanks

I just passed that one and will bookmark it for the future. Thanks! How sad about what happened to their daughter. :( I'm glad they're helping others though!

[wli]

22. never needed to fear before, but now

By and large I and the cadre of people I surrounded myself with in the mid-90's were completely unafraid of those crazed genocidal maniacs.

I don't feel anywhere near so bold now, but in those days our tactic was to shock them. It was almost as if the presence of one of those racist gaybashing bigots demanded an extemporaneous political protest. I think you can figure out what this means.

After relocating out of that hellhole I've never even seen a fundie since. It does seem mighty strange to me that the lunatic fringe of street preachers and cultists everyone laughed at until they called the cops to get rid of them out of boredom somehow managed to take over the entire federal government by joining forces with neonazi cryptofascists.

Yes, I used words like "bigot", "racist", "gaybashing", and so on. They are meaningful, not slurs. Normal religious practice doesn't consist of chasing down people wearing fancy clothes, threatening them, and screaming at them how they're going to go to Hell for being gay (even when they aren't). I'm talking about psychos, not run-of-the-mill churchgoers.

In any event, the cryptofascists (neocons) need to be swiftly ejected and shipped off to the Hague to stand trial for their crimes. There is no place in a democratic government for those who reject democracy. "The country should be run by a fascist dictator and purge all dissent via genocide" is not an acceptable position for any government official to hold (and probably runs afoul of their own "terrorism" legislation, if not the legitimate laws I suspect it does). There is a clear distinction between participation in politics and overthrow of the state via infiltration, and the cryptofascists (neocons) have long since crossed the line.

[newswolf56]

23. I find anti-gay-rights people so violently bigoted...

...its pointless to even attempt a conversation with them -- not that you would bother (unless you {A} had no choice and {B} were accompanied by your Rottweiler, or had a pistol in your pocket -- or better yet both). While I'm not gay, I have friends and relatives who are, and the infinitely ugly reality is that when Bush came out against gay rights, he became der fuhrer of the most viciously hateful part of the Right -- so malevolent they had previously been marginalized even by their fellow conservatives. But now they have been let out of their own closet and loosed not just on my gay and lesbian friends and relatives but ultimately on all of America. Indeed I read recently that according to the FBI, hate-crimes against gays and lesbians have skyrocketed since der Bushler's anti-gay proclamation.

[FreedomAngel82]

25. So how

do your friends reply to these people? What would they say? For the most part people I come across aren't hateful against gays, they're just not for them being recognized by the law. *sigh*

[newswolf56]

34. I think how one replies is determined by the opposition. In...

...my area (now Tacoma, but for the last 18 years, rural Western Washington state), the general population is extremely tolerant. The only opponents of gay rights are people who genuinely despise homosexuals and homosexuality -- storm-trooper-minded bigots who exhibit precisely the same sort of bloodthirsty hatred with which the Nazis despised the Jews or the Ku Klux Klan despises all minorities. This is the hatred knowingly and maliciously inflamed by der Bushler: it is absolutely rationalized by the Bible, and in its boiling and incipiently murderous irrationality there is no room for negotiation. Not surprisingly, there has sprung up in reaction a very large "Pink Pistols" contingent in Washington state -- gays and lesbians who (like the Deacons of Defense in the days of the old Civil Rights Movement) make no secret of the fact they are armed and ready to defend themselves -- in either instance, Deacons or homosexuals, precisely the reason I am such an inflexibly staunch supporter of the right to keep and bear arms. Real Leftists own guns.

In some areas, it probably is at least theoretically possible to negotiate with the (very few) "moderates" among these people, but even in New York City -- by far the most enlightened metropolis in America -- the gay-bashers were literally that: gang thugs (of all races) whose biggest thrill is "homo-hunting" in the parks (which unfortunately happens here in Tacoma too), bands of youths and men who have no hesitation about secretly beating a lone gay to death on some isolated corner or openly attacking gay-rights marchers with fists, rocks and even baseball bats. A young man mistakenly presumed to be gay was beaten to death in a local park here in Tacoma three years ago, and I witnessed a truly vicious mob attack on a gay rights march in Manhattan while covering it in 1986. Probably the most chilling part of the spectacle -- the attack occurred as the march passed Little Italy -- was the neighborhood women standing on the fire escapes screaming encouragement to the assailants.

Protestant or Catholic, such potentially murderous thugs always find justification in the Bible, just as their Islamic counterparts (who slaughter gays by hurling them from lethal heights or burying them alive) claim justification in the Qur'an: the record of Yehvehistic religion on this matter is universally gory. And hatred -- at least as far as I am concerned -- is non-negotiable regardless of its rationale.

[ConfuZed]

24. Don't bother you can't change the world

Some people are going to stick by their beliefs and you just can't do anything about those people

[Behind the Aegis]

26. Still important to try

If we don't try, then this happens, Thought Toddler Gay, Dad Kills Son.

[ConfuZed]

36. Excelent point and equally sad

[Liberal In Texas]

27. Pretty much tell them to FUCK OFF.

If you don't want to be in my world or my friends, go away. Not in so many words, of course, but they get the hint.

[Devlzown]

28. You can't argue with the Bible.

The Bible says some wicked things about homosexuality and you aren't gonna sway peoples' minds with scripture. Talk to them about civil rights and taxes. CIvil unions are state matters and religion need not be involved.

[really annoyed]

29. The Bible says "wicked things" about heterosexuals too

But you are right about arguing from The Bible. Fundamentalists on the right have already made their mind up on the religious aspect and stubbornly refuse to face facts. However, most of them pick and choose what they want from The Bible too, conveniently ignoring the teachings of Jesus - he never said anything about homosexuality.

Personally, I just think its impossible to argue with anti-gay bigots. Believe me, I tried. One man I argued with said all homosexuals are pedophiles, and if you support homosexual rights, you support pedophiles. How can you argue with morons like that?

PS - The moron is a regular visitor to Free Republic and he likes to harass women on-line. Why am I not shocked?

[Obamarama]

30. Oh bullshit.....

First, the bible says relatively little about homosexuality. Out of all the verses in the bible, only .002 percent deal with anything related to homosexuality.

I don't have a direct link to this, but I will try to find. This percentage comes from a biblical scholar at Holland, Michigan's conservative Christian Hope College who recently authored a book in support of gay marriage using the bible as PROOF for his argument.

Second, what the bible DOES say about homosexuality is cloaked in archaic context. There wasn't even anthing close to the CONCEPT of homosexuality as we know it today when the text of the bible was written.

[TWiley]

32. I frame it as a civil rights issue.

It is akin to refusing minorities or women the right to vote.

Not too long ago, the Christians opposed marriages between blacks by claiming that "God would not sanction the marriage of animals". In some places, black people were legally only considered to be 1/5 to 3/5ths of a human. Inter-racial marriages have also been historically condemned by the Christians as well.

It has always been the same vein of humanity that attempts to give themselves a leg up by limiting the rights of another group. Examples of these Christian Conservative groups include the KKK, Aryans, Neo-Nazi's, and similar types.

It is with those folks the contemporary Christian aligns himself.

[EFerrari]

33. I pray that someday they will develop language and simple tools.

And will support Mayor Newsom should he decide to build a wall around San Francisco. :)

[TexasLady]

35. I just ask them what age they were

when THEY chose to be Hetero...then of course make the point that you don't turn 6, or 12, or 29 and say one day,"hmm, I think I'll choose a life of being made fun of, abused, and/or treated like crap so I will be gay today."

[MrSlayer]

37. I ask them why they hate American values like Equal Rights.

Then I call them anti-American bigots and watch them squirm.