Stripes letter: T-shirt inappropriate for GI

[lebkuchen]

In “Sailing across the sky,” (article, July 10, European edition), there was a picture of Petty Officer 2nd Class Felix Quijano wearing a T-shirt “I miss Clinton.”

There’s nothing wrong with someone in the military admiring a former U.S. president, but it shouldn’t be disrespectful toward the current one.

To me, there’s only one reason for a T-shirt that says “I miss Clinton,” and it shouldn’t be worn by someone currently in the military.

Capt. Jeff Thornton
Stuttgart, Germany

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=30340



http://stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=29455&archive=true

[Must_B_Free]

1. waaah

what a cry baby.

[oldtime dfl_er]

10. tetchy tetchy

these guys are awfully prickly sensitive these days, arent they???

http://www.cafepress.com/scarebaby/714748

[w13rd0]

2. That's great...

...kudos to that soldier!

I miss Clinton too, and I didn't really even like him that much :)

[FreedomAngel82]

3. I miss Clinton all the time

:( Clinton and Gore. :cry: And kick ass for that guy and wa wa wa to the other guy. Cry me a river. I want that tshirt too!

[madeline_con]

4. Wanger!

We wouldn't want anyone with their own opinion anywhere near the military would we, Cap'n?

[FreedomAngel82]

5. Really

Why doesn't the guy just go and get him an "I love Bush" shirt if he's so offended? :eyes:

[lebkuchen]

7. "I love Bush" T-shirt is not likely at Camp Doha (see posted letters)

[lebkuchen]

6. Here's a letter in the same batch indicating one aspect of the morale prob

I remember when Def. Sec. Cohen (under Clinton) used to travel to bases and ships with his wife to ensure morale was high, conditions good.

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=30340

Doha conditions unacceptable

I have been in the military full time for the last 22 years and I have never seen filthy facilities as I had at Camp Doha, Kuwait (“Camp Doha a nightmare,” letter, June 30). I am sure there are a great number of hard-working soldiers at Doha. That does not excuse the fact that the facilities I used were unacceptable.

When I arrived at Camp Doha after the 22-hour flight, there appeared to be a lot of confusion about where soldiers need to go. I can understand that. The problem begins when you must remain overnight.

I slept in a warehouse full of bunk beds, which were dirty. I can live with that. We cleaned our area and stocked up the refrigerator with water.

The shower trailer was by the flight manifest area. You could smell it before you entered it. This was the most repulsive latrine/shower area I have ever been in. To say that the showers were moldy would be an understatement. I felt less clean after my so-called “shower.”

The toilets were just as repulsive. I was at Doha for three days and two nights and never saw the latrine cleaned. I feel guilty for not reporting this, but I was still suffering for lack of sleep because of just arriving and really not knowing who to talk to.

The people who worked with me at Doha were wonderful and got me squared away as quickly as they could. I do understand the tough job Doha has getting soldiers in-processed.

I am glad to see the captain stand up for his soldiers (“Doha staff criticized unfairly,” letter, July 5), but he should have the facts before he criticizes the writer’s concern about the health and welfare of fellow soldiers.

I am not writing to complain about who is in the forward area and who is not. I would like to see conditions improve at Doha.

Sgt. 1st Class James D. Morrison
Taji, Iraq


The letter referenced in the above letter is here:

Camp Doha a nightmare
I recently traveled stateside on leave. The trip was long, but worth it. Coming back was another story … more of a horror story.

I flew to Atlanta and met up with the main body of people returning from leave. We were processed and flown to Germany. Then we arrived at Camp Doha, and the trouble began. As we had a large group, and the flights throughout Iraq and Afghanistan are small, we were separated into smaller groups and placed into warehouses with bunks. The air conditioners worked in some, not in others. They were dirty and the garbage cans overflowed with trash. The portable toilets were never cleaned, as far as I could see and smell. The troops, who had gone through several time zones, were exhausted.

My group seemed to suffer from extreme bad luck. For one, we actually made it to our plane twice only to be told “it’s broken.” We stayed overnight one night and returned to an even more overpopulated Camp Doha, where officials had no idea we were coming back. Do the airport in Kuwait and Camp Doha communicate with each other? This soldier doesn’t think so.

Camp Doha is a horror story I will never forget. The soldiers there make hazard pay while they work 9 to 5, they drive around in rent-a-cars, work in civilian attire and live, in my opinion, pretty well while the rest of us, in Iraq and Afghanistan, try to ensure we return home to our families and friends.

One other point: Many of the forward operating bases in Iraq and Afghanistan are working short-handed while soldiers are stuck at Camp Doha attending formations, living in dirty warehouses and wanting to return to their units. Perhaps I am missing a bigger picture and Camp Doha isn’t as bad as I am writing, but that is my story and I am sticking to it.

Spc. Mike Tanner
Camp Victory, Baghdad

http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=30071

[Hubert Flottz]

19. I never saw anything like what the soldier who wrote that letter

is writing about, when I was in the service in the early 70s. Even at a reception station. I guess the volunteers don't take the pride in the things the taxpayers pay for, like we draftees did. Even in the field we made an effort to keep things squared away. When Rumbo came out and said the soldiers who were drafted never benefited the country I knew he didn't have any respect for anyone, and he should have been fired on the spot for saying something so god damned unpatriotic. The CiC and Rumbo are disgusting to the max! I think I despise rummy more than any of the chickenshit bastards! Anyone in the military now, who still has any respect at all for the top brass and the AWOL CiC, is a total IDIOT!

Sorry bout the bad language, but I picked that God Damned shit up when I was in the army wasting my country's fucking time!

Edit I wonder if S&S would print out my message above?

[lebkuchen]

22. Here's the address!

I insist you try! :)

[e-mail]

[Hubert Flottz]

23. I'm glad you approve...

I'm just afraid that someday those rotten s@ns of b*tches in DC will cause me to lose my #@%$#%* #@%$#ng religion. I worry about that sh*t all the freaking time.

Send them the link if you like, because it looks like some of those hard core freakers that write in to Stripes sometimes could, use some serious %#@ %$#@&ed old school schooling...


The Army always did have a few freeped out freeptards and dregs that blindly got with all the wrong programs, so they could get ahead. That's the only way some of those sadistic freaker types(Bad Apples) can get ahead is to %#$$ @$$ 24/7!

America must have it's head pretty far up it's a$$ to elect an AWOL for CiC.

:hi:

[lebkuchen]

27. I most definitely do approve!

Find some "appropriate" adjectives for the %#$$ @$$ 24/7! and send it to you-know-who. Use your rank in your signature (ret), address and phone number.

I was at the fest tonight at saw some MPs walking a route with the German police. I asked if the soldiers had been getting too drunk or maintaining their behavior. They said the soldiers had been getting too drunk AND maintaining their behavior. Maybe I can get some photos of the revelry for you tomorrow, you know, dancing on the tables and all that, a breather from the usual caskets. It's amazing Rumsfeld wants to close these bases, where the troops are having the time of their lives rather than losing them.

[Hubert Flottz]

30. I sure miss the fine food and the even finer beer.

Those guys over there know how to party. Have a good time and send the pics. Wish you could send some Schashliks mit pomme frites and a jug of Schwartz Kat with the photos.

[lebkuchen]

33. We had rain all night so didn't end up taking pics, but did drink beer!

My friend was just mentioning schashliks as we walked out of the tent at 11:00 p.m., wondering what we hadn't yet eaten at the fest (tonight it was makerel...Steckerlfish). Since most everyone had moved into the tent, that's where two groups of MPs were, working with security and the German police. It was nice to see the MPs inside, letting the locals know that if any American soldier got out of hand, they would be taken care of. However, I didn't see any problems, and the troops looked like they were having a great time.

Sure is a shame that Rummy wants to shut down these bases.

BTW, last night we were trying to think of the top ten American songs sung at every German bierfest. I made a poll of them, but will have to replace #5 with "YMCA" by the Village people. Tonight, we heard everything but "Hey Baby." The band must have played it before we'd arrived. :)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=3640068

What American songs were popular when you were here?

[Hubert Flottz]

34. I was there when Jimi Hendrix was hot.

I was in Germany when he died. We listened to hard rock and R&B too. The great English bands were all touring Germany all the time then. Most of the clubs had DJs before anyone in the US ever thought of a live DJ. The Zoom Club in Frankfurt was the hot spot back then. They had good bands and a DJ both. They had different light shows on each wall and showed old silent movies on one wall all the time. King Crimson played there a lot and they made a live album there.

Most of the small local bars had mostly country music on their juke boxes. We had a month long beer fest in the fall, in the town I was in with kegs and kegs of great beer, good food and the traditional old brass bands that played polkas and that kind of stuff.

Drink a few flippies for me and have a good time.

[lebkuchen]

35. Rummy is about to take that all away and send the troops unaccompanied

to Bulgaria, or some shithole place. Doesn't make sense in the morale scheme of things. Guess he figures the "Sodom and Gomorrah" aspect such economically deprived countries have to offer will be enough to keep the troops occupied.

[Hubert Flottz]

36. I'm sure you probably know why Rumbo wants to take the troops

out of Germany. Here's what I think the reasons are:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4116417

[cynatnite]

8. The military is supposed to be apolitical

The shirt is probably interpreted by some who see it as a disparagement toward bush and his policies.

I think they are coming down harder now than ever because of the horrible position this regime put our military in. The troops know it. They aren't blind and started speaking out in hopes that maybe here in the states enough pressure can be brought on bush and minions to stop what's happening. The brass may believe the lower ranks are going to undermine what they are trying to accomplish.

[lebkuchen]

9. Is it also supposed to be non-denominational?

Stop assault on non-Christians
I have grown tired of fundamentalist Christians who assume that theirs is the only religion in the United States. I’ve heard more and more complaints from them recently, between the confusing U.S. Supreme Court decision on the “Ten Commandments in court” issue and the Air Force Academy religion scandal. It seems like the evangelicals consider it freedom of religion to tell you that your religion, being different from theirs, is wrong, but it’s oppressive and an attack on them when you try to tell them to please go away.

Non-Christians get Christianity thrown in their faces enough in this country as it is. Christians don’t realize what it’s like, but it’s annoying when seemingly every event is opened by a leader of a faith you aren’t part of offering a prayer to a God you don’t believe in. I have to tolerate mandatory formations being opened with an invocation by the chaplain. I don’t have any say in whether I have to be there for it; I have to stand around in formation while the Christians have their heads bowed. We get daily Christian devotional e-mails from my chaplain sent basewide, but you’ll never see a basewide e-mail present devotionals or uplifting thoughts from other religions.

With the Air Force Academy scandal, Republican members of Congress seem to be complaining plaintively that academy students are being oppressed because they can’t tell Jews that Jews will burn in hell. This, they claim, is a sign of intolerance toward Christianity. What? No, it’s the other way around: Students and chaplains telling non-Christians they’ll burn is religious intolerance from Christians, not toward them.

The evangelical Christians and their recent gains in the field of political power really scare me. It scares me that recent events have shown that there are religious fanatics in the academy, because those are my future lieutenants and captains. I fear for my own religious freedom when I hear about what happened at the academy, because that’s the future leadership of our military. Will I have some supervisor down the road looking at me mistrustfully because I have “Pagan” on my dog tags, and treat me differently because of it? Will he be backed up by his boss, and his boss’ boss, all the way up the chain of command to the president and members of Congress?

People say it won’t ever happen because of the Constitution, but as anyone familiar with the Uniform Code of Military Justice can tell you, when you enter the military you have a different set of rights then a civilian.

Senior Airman John Nixdorf
Baghdad International Airport

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=30289

[cynatnite]

11. Absolutely!

The thing is these types of things are happening in officer ranks. Rarely will you hear of it going on in the enlisted. The worlds between officer and enlisted is for the most part radically different. Segregation as far as ranks go is the norm.

It is true that in the military the rights normally expected as a civilian is not there. It is not a democracy and given what the military is about, it shouldn't be.

[stanwyck]

25. When my son got his

dog tags, he was asked to write down what denomination to put on them. He had no idea since we rarely attended church during his childhood. He knew he had been baptized as a Presbyterian...but since he didn't know how to spell Presbyterian, he wrote Baptist. So...that's what his tags say. We think that's funny.
But, you're right, there is way too much proselytizing in the military.

[madeline_con]

12. "The shirt is probably interpreted by some

who see it as a disparagement toward bush and his policies."

Yes, Cap'n whoosits who wrote the remark, for one.

If the guy's not allowed to wear a shirt like that, his C.O. should address it.

Meanwhile, it's good to see dissent from those who know the situation they're in better than I do. ;)

[lebkuchen]

13. The man wearing the T-shirt was at a reenlistment event

He had had one foot out the door of the Navy. What's the Navy going to do--tell him not to wear his T-shirt after he had 6 years of training under his belt? ;)

Never a better time to give Bush the finger than during reenlistment, especially if you're Army. You could probably wear Bush's face on your ass and get away with it, the Army needs boots on the ground that bad.

[madeline_con]

28. "... wearing the T-shirt was at a reenlistment event..."

Here's an excellent example of me NOT reading the linked info thouroughly enough to know my butt from a hole in the ground.

OH.

As far as interpretation goes, he could just as well have been from TN, and missed his home town. ;)

[lebkuchen]

29. I thought it was a clever way for the Petty Officer to express a view

legally. He and his military friend put down 185 euro and jumped on their own time, at a private club, to commemorate their reenlistment, and then got Stars and Stripes involved. The Stripes letter writer criticizing the T-shirt doesn't have a leg to stand on, let alone decorum. However, had he not redirected attention to the photo, most everyone would have missed it altogether. :)

That "I miss Clinton" photo made it into Bartcop, btw.

[soup]

14. Only ONE reason for a T-shirt that says “I miss Clinton”? - Not.

Could be a homesick Iowan.

[lebkuchen]

15. Send a brief letter

to Stripes saying so, would you? That is so cute. :)

[e-mail]

The Petty Officer paid 185 euro to jump, on his time, so he should be able to wear what he wants, eh? ;)

[soup]

20. ''We're all Iowans now.''

Do they accept letters from non-military personnel?

[lebkuchen]

21. yes

They have in the past. Worth a try. If you have any affiliation w/military--family member or whatever, you might mention it in your short statement of "please accept this letter..." Otherwise, give it a try! Couldn't hurt~! :)

[soup]

24. Got a response to my note.

Needing 'your full name and rank, name of installation and phone number'
to publish letter.

[lebkuchen]

26. For rank, say "civilian"

and give name, address and phone number.

[Modem Butterfly]

16. Kicking for my partner

He says this will come in handy today at work.

[lebkuchen]

17. Here is where the T-shirt can be purchased

http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues.14744983

[area51]

18. OT

I miss Clinton's economy, when people could actually get jobs.

[SammyWinstonJack]

31. How many more would admit that they too miss Clinton

Clinton didn't get them killed.

[wicket]

32. I need to get me one of those shirts!

:D