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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 11:25 AM
Original message
Harsh Medicine from the Daily Howler
Edited on Thu Jul-14-05 11:25 AM by bryant69
I don't know how many of you follow the Daily Howler. I think it's very good on most occasions. This week, however, with Joe Wilson back in the news, they are a bit problemattic.

"As far as we know, Wilson’s trip to Niger was completely appropriate, as was his performance while there. (For the record, everyone agrees that Wilson performed admirably during his earlier days in Iraq.) And we’ll assume his principal conclusion was sound—most likely, Iraq hadn’t purchased uranium from Niger, he judged after making his trip. (Wilson, 7/6/03, New York Times: “It did not take long to conclude that it was highly doubtful that any such transaction had ever taken place.”) But his New York Times piece should never have run in the form it took—because of its groaning illogic. As we noted yesterday, nothing in Wilson’s now-famous piece contradicted what Bush had actually said—that Iraq had sought uranium in Africa (according to British intelligence). Yes, as we have often noted, the current New York Times op-ed page is like the Smithsonian of groaning illogic. But frankly, we’re surprised at our readers (as we are every year at this time). Few seem troubled by the fact that Wilson’s piece was deeply illogical, right to its core. Bush didn’t say a transaction took place; he only said a transaction was sought. Simply put, Wilson didn’t speak to what Bush said. But he never seemed to realize. Neither did his New York Times editor.

For the record, there were other groaning problems with the logic of Wilson’s piece. Bush described an attempt to purchase uranium “in Africa”—and Wilson had only gone to Niger. Why did he think that his experience there could address the entire continent? Even in his 500-page book, he never explained this conundrum. (Indeed, in a typical bit of confusion, Wilson said there were only three other countries that could be involved—Gabon, South Africa and Namibia. If he had done elementary background reading, he would have known that the British press roiled with speculation about the Congo when the intelligence report in question had been discussed the previous fall. See THE DAILY HOWLER, 7/28/03.) Meanwhile, since Bush was referring to British intelligence that no one in the US had ever seen, it’s hard to know why Wilson thought that he could rule out what the Brit intel said. But these elementary points weren’t addressed in his piece. To all appearances, he didn’t see the illogic all around. Neither did his ed at the Times.

Does it matter if columns are wholly illogical? Only if you want a rational world—and that should be one of your wishes. Logic—rationality—is a part of intellectual due process, and whenever due process is undermined, it eventually serves the interests of power. Yes, it’s true: In this case, the hapless press corps took Wilson’s side, as they have continued to do, even after the embarrassment of that Intelligence Committee report. But frankly, we’re amazed to see how many readers don’t care about an elementary fact—Wilson’s piece simply doesn’t make sense. To our readers, it works like this: They don’t like Bush, and neither does Wilson. All else can be overlooked!
" - Linke http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh071405.shtml

I don't know - something to consider at the very least.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
1.  i guess the howler has to
write something so someone will pay attention to him. gee maybe wilson knew where to look instead of chasing dead leads..maybe he knows who`s who` in the game no matter where in africa they may be today or tomorrow. speculation in the british press ,now that`s creditable information to use in ones arguement.....
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. I woudln't write off the Daily Howler - it's quite a good site
on many issues.

I'm also not sure of the logic of your response.

Bryant
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. I agree that the Howler is usually an excellent site.
I take what Somerby writes seriously, and I think he makes some good points about the Wilson case that Democrats tend to overlook (such as that Wilson actually found evidence that Iraqis were trying to make contact with Nigerien officials who told Wilson that they presumed it was about yellowcake). But I also think this is an instance of Somerby taking a visceral dislike to Wilson, as he did to Howard Dean. Leftcoaster responds to a lot of Somerby's points, showing that Somerby is not as well steeped in the Plame Wilson literature as he usually is on most other points.
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Zen Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
2. Why did Tenet, Rice and Powell say the 16 words were a mistake
and never should have been in the SOTU. If it was "accurate" -- why did everyone have a coronary when he said it?

If Wilson's op-ed was so illogical, why didn't the WH attack it on the merits, rather than break the law to attempt to discredit Wilson?

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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Maybe the White House wanted the fight on those grounds
Because they were safer than other and larger areas where they had fudged the data leading up to the Iraq war.
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Bouncy Ball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
5. And if bush et al knew what THEY were talking about
they could have said "No NOT Niger, the CONGO" and straightened the whole mess up, couldn't they?

Why nothing on their shoulders, mmmm? Why the bush administration silence when his book said "nope, nothing in Niger?" They should have had this Howler guy around to cover their asses, sounds like! :rofl:

"Bush described an attempt to purchase uranium “in Africa”—and Wilson had only gone to Niger. Why did he think that his experience there could address the entire continent?"
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. THe Daily Howler is not a Republican Site or a conservative one
One of his gripes is that, in his opinion, the Left Wing and the Press got suckered into focusing on Wilson while there wre much more clear and obvious deceptions the Bush administration was practicing.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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Bouncy Ball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. The subject seems to be Rove's outing of a CIA agent, though.
As someone said above, you can examine Rove's motives for doing so all day long, but if he really did out a CIA agent, that is a serious, punishable offense.
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mcar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
6. None of this is relevant to the fact
that Karl Rove revealed the identity of an undercover CIA agent as political retribution to someone who didn't agree with him.

I don't really care if Joe Wilson is as crazy as a loon (he isn't, but that's not the point).

We cannot let the reich wing set the message about this and that is what is starting to happen.

The issue is not Joe Wilson -- it's Karl Rove committing treason.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
10. the Howler is overstating how much people "fell in love" with Wilson
and one thing this column fails to mention is that the Bush administration ended up backing away from the SOTU claims.

Yes, it's complicated, but no, the Howler is by far not the ONLY one who recognizes it's complicated.
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