Just announced yesterday: California Autism Rates Drop!!!!!

[lostnfound]

Dear God, let this be the beginning of a new trend.

http://www.sacunion.com/pages/california/articles/5424/

California Autism Rates Drop
The Associated Press
Published: July 13, 2005
LOS ANGELES—The number of new cases of autism in California has fallen for the first time in more than 10 years in what may be a bellwether for autism rates nationwide, according to new data compiled by the state Department of Developmental Services.
...
Parent activist Rick Rollens of Sacramento, who played a key role in the creation of the MIND Institute, said that the trend roughly corresponds to the removal of mercury preservatives from pediatric vaccines. Many activist groups say that the use of mercury in the vaccines caused the sudden increase in autism cases.
...
According to the state data, 2002 was a record year for new autism diagnoses, with 3,259 cases. In 2003, the number of new cases slipped to 3,125. In 2004, the number was 3,074.

For the first half of 2005, there were 1,470 new cases, compared to 1,518 in the same period in 2004.

[IndyOp]

1. Do you know when the mercury was removed?

I hope this is true - a drop from 3,259 to 3,074 is slight, however. I understand that it is very, very important to the children & parents spared, I am just wondering whether it will be reliable. I hope so.

:kick:

[back2basics909]

3. 2000

Thermisol was dropped in 2000. The law was to only give Thermisol vacs is parents specifically asked for it. Diagnosis is usually done between the ages of 2 and 3 (diagnosis has improved these days) So we *should* have see a huge drop off in 2003-2004, not just a statistical blip as this is.

While there were probably some vaccines on shelves through until 2002 (as the shelf life is only 2 years) only a very small amount of children would have received these. No stats, but it's expected to be less than 10%. So if it were linked to Thermisol we would have seen a drop way in to the double figures. We didn't.

[IndyOp]

5. I would have thought the drop would be larger, too...

On edit: If Thimerosal vacs were last used in 2000, then...

You would expect to see a drop in diagnosis in 2003-2004, but perhaps the drop in kids in contact with CA school system would not be expected until 2005-2006 or so. The article said that most autistic kids are in contact with CA schools before age six - but it doesn't say how much earlier.

I am wondering now if Thimerisol was a contributing factor, and if water, food, air, obstetric treatment are more significant culprits.

Final thought: If it was dropped in CA only then with the frequency of family moves these days, the CA system may have kids from other states moving in inflating the numbers.

[back2basics909]

6. When...

People talk about the Mercury in vaccines, and its ranges between 0.1mg to a max of 1.0mg. In the report on testing of women’s umbilical chords found up to 7.9Mg of Mercury in the blood. So which ever way you look at this, people should be worried about Mercury in the Environment much more than Thermisol, as far more finds its way in to the baby, prior to birth than it does after birth. Unless they have 7 flu vacs and 20 or so MMR's before the age of 2.

Not even mentioning that thermisol was banned in Denmark and Japan in 1995 and they are still having the same rates. OR the fact that doctors over the nation were conserned about a huge amount of parents not immunising their children anymore, which also has not shown on the detaection rates either.

The main point is people are fretting over the wrong thing. When the Mercury link is found, we could stop Thermisol tommorow. We cannot clean up the enviroment for a very long time. So while the parents are wasting their time on this cause, they could be fighting the real issue... but they won't because like the freepers they have too much invested in this debate.

It's sad... very sad.

My wife runs a school for autism and only half the kids have had Thermisol vaccines. I would like somebody to explain that to me.

[IndyOp]

17. Thanks for all of the information...

I am not attached to the idea that Thimerosol is a contributing factor to autism - maybe it is and maybe it isn't. I have been disturbed by the seeming unwillingness of some in the scientific community to consider the hypothesis.

I am far more concerned (especially after reading the articles linked below) about environmental contaminants.

My appreciation to your wife, as well - it sounds like tough and very important work to me.

:kick:

[lostnfound]

19. Spikes of 50 to 70 micrograms (chart)

This chart shows the spikes in mercury concentration corresponding to a typical vaccine schedule on a typical male baby.
http://64.202.182.52/powerpoint/dan2004/Geier_files/slide0237.htm

[bloom]

7. It also needs to be looked at as a percentage of the population

But this could be related as well:

"Body Burden — The Pollution in Newborns"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4099689&mesg_id=4099689

http://www.ewg.org/reports/bodyburden2/execsumm.php

[back2basics909]

8. Yeah thats the report i was talking about

7.9% in one woman.

And thats methyl Mercury not Ethyl Mercury. Methyl is more neuro toxic and it's all around us. Test have been done on Ethyl and it's removed form the body in 7 days. So they would have to have huge amounts of vaccines to reach that level and then it would be less toxic anyway.

Add in to this two other facts;

The genetic link has been found to be linked to production of a hormone that detoxes the body of heavy metals. This genetic abnormality is more common in males than females... and autism is also more common in Males.

A seperate study found that for every 1000 tonnes of Mercury pumped in to the enviroment that saw a "multiple-digits increase in Autism"
http://www.uthscsa.edu/hscnews/singleformat.asp?newID=1412&SearchID=

Another study found less Mercury in the hair of Autistic Children and another study found MORE in the teeth.

The 80's were a time where huge amounts of old Mercury bulbs and thermostats were thrown away. It was also a time where a huge increses in the amount of Mercury pumped out of coal power plants was seen.

The link to Mercury is strong, but Thermisol is just a distraction. There is no link to Thermisol, it may be a small contributory factor but thats as far as it goes.

[back2basics909]

10. Some more info..

http://asa.confex.com/asa/2005/techprogram/S1234.HTM

4) Mercury in Baby Hair: A recent study found that children with autism have 1/8 the normal amount of mercury in their baby hair, suggesting an inhibited ability to excrete mercury which is consistent with their high oral antibiotic usage. Also, they found that the severity of autism had a strong inverse correlation with the hair level, such that the children with the lowest levels of mercury in their hair (least excretion) were the most severe. We will also report on our replication study, which we carried out with the help of NIH and researchers at MIT, and which generally supports the Holmes' et al study.

5) Baby Teeth: We will present our study with the Un. of Texas, which evaluated the level of mercury, lead, and zinc in the baby teeth of children with autism vs. controls, and found that children with autism have 3x as much mercury in their baby teeth.

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. All school districts have to take a yearly census

of kids with disabilities who live in the school district. So states can easily find out how many kids have which disability from birth on. We don't have to wait until they enroll in school to know how many disabled kids we have in our communities.

[bloom]

4. Still in infant vaccines through 2002

Still in flu vaccines now.

"In September 1999, amid rising concern about the risks of mercury in
childhood vaccines, Merck announced that the Food and Drug Administration
had approved a preservative-free version of its hepatitis B vaccine.

"Now, Merck's infant vaccine line," the company's press release said, "is
free of all preservatives."

But Merck continued to distribute vaccine containing the chemical known as
thimerosal, along with the new product, until October 2001, according to an
FDA letter sent in response to a congressional inquiry.

The thimerosal-containing supplies had expiration dates in 2002.
><

Last year California banned thimerosal in childhood vaccines as of 2006."


http://www.ghchealth.com/forum/merck-misled-on-vaccines-some-say-discussion-404.php

[beam me up scottie]

2. Why did you leave out

the most important facts ?

Disingenuous, no ?

**************

Experts said, however, that they don’t know what’s causing the numbers to fall off.

**************

Federal scientists, however, have continually said that the evidence does not support such a link.

The state data do not include children under the age of 3. About 90 percent of all autistic children are entered into the system before the age of 6, the department said.

**************

[Ian David]

11. Don't forget he has to follow "The 4 Paragraph Rule," but good catch

Here's an interesting theory on Autism.

I don't know how likely it is, but it's fascinating to read none the less.

The Geek Syndrome

Autism - and its milder cousin Asperger's syndrome - is surging among the children of Silicon Valley. Are math-and-tech genes to blame?

By Steve Silberman

Nick is building a universe on his computer. He's already mapped out his first planet: an anvil-shaped world called Denthaim that is home to gnomes and gods, along with a three-gendered race known as kiman. As he tells me about his universe, Nick looks up at the ceiling, humming fragments of a melody over and over. "I'm thinking of making magic a form of quantum physics, but I haven't decided yet, actually," he explains. The music of his speech is pitched high, alternately poetic and pedantic - as if the soul of an Oxford don has been awkwardly reincarnated in the body of a chubby, rosy-cheeked boy from Silicon Valley. Nick is 11 years old.

<snip>

Asperger's notion of a continuum that embraces both smart, geeky kids like Nick and those with so-called classic or profound autism has been accepted by the medical establishment only in the last decade. Like most distinctions in the world of childhood developmental disorders, the line between classic autism and Asperger's syndrome is hazy, shifting with the state of diagnostic opinion. Autism was added to the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders in 1980, but Asperger's syndrome wasn't included as a separate disorder until the fourth edition in 1994. The taxonomy is further complicated by the fact that few if any people who have Asperger's syndrome will exhibit all of the behaviors listed in the DSM-IV. (The syn in syndrome derives from the same root as the syn in synchronicity - the word means that certain symptoms tend to cluster together, but all need not be present to make the diagnosis.) Though Asperger's syndrome is less disabling than "low-functioning" forms of autism, kids who have it suffer difficulties in the same areas as classically autistic children do: social interactions, motor skills, sensory processing, and a tendency toward repetitive behavior.

In the last 20 years, significant advances have been made in developing methods of behavioral training that help autistic children find ways to communicate. These techniques, however, require prodigious amounts of persistence, time, money, and love. Though more than half a century has passed since Kanner and Asperger first gave a name to autism, there is still no known cause, no miracle drug, and no cure.

And now, something dark and unsettling is happening in Silicon Valley.

<snip>

Clumsy and easily overwhelmed in the physical world, autistic minds soar in the virtual realms of mathematics, symbols, and code. Asperger compared the children in his clinic to calculating machines: "intelligent automata" - a metaphor employed by many autistic people themselves to describe their own rule-based, image-driven thought processes. In her autobiography, Thinking in Pictures, Grandin compares her mind to a VCR. When she hears the word dog, she mentally replays what she calls "videotapes" of various dogs that she's seen, to arrive at something close to the average person's abstract notion of the category that includes all dogs. This visual concreteness has been a boon to her work as a designer of more humane machinery for handling livestock. Grandin sees the machines in her head and sets them running, debugging as she goes. When the design in her mind does everything it's supposed to, she draws a blueprint of what she sees.

"In another age, these men would have been monks, developing new ink for printing presses. Suddenly, they're reproducing at a much higher rate."

More:
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aspergers_pr.html

[back2basics909]

12. Sorry thats crap as well..

While Aspergers could be entirely genetic, and thats normally the type of Autism they talk about when geeks are invoked.... the states with the higest levels and increases of Autism are hardly science states, or places where left brainers go. Places like Wisconsin, Illinois, Maryland, Ohio. This whole concept came from high levels found in silicone vally. CA also has high rates of Autism.

But if you look at the biggest poluters, well you get states like... Illinois, Ohio, CA.

Also in my wifes school there are no scientists, programmers or anything like that as parents. So again it's just people grasping at straws.

[Ian David]

13. Thanks for the comprehensive and succinct debunking

I was fascinated (but still very skeptical) when I read it.

Just so I'm clear:

Do you think that the "Geek Syndrome" theory might be true about Aspergers but not Autism, or are you pretty sure it can't be correct about either?

My feeling is that it's probably more complex than many people think. It's probably a combination of genetics, environmental pollution, maybe Thimeresol, and who the hell knows what.

It's such a profound, terrible and seemingly random disease that people are desperate for any easy "smoking gun" cause or "magic bullet" fix.

When you're dealing with scared, desperate parents you need to keep your B.S. detectors "set to eleven." Or else you end up with "facilitated communication" and "contrast dye" enemas.

[Sgent]

14. Its not in pediatric flu vaccines

Just adult versions. Adults are generally thought to be immune anyway.

The reality is there is still no evidence that thermisol was ever the problem. A study in Japan (which stopped in 1995) showed no difference in autism rates -- as the chemistry would suggest.

I believe the problem is environmental -- coal plants, drinking water, and some foods, rather than due to one vaccine which contained very small amounts of a chemically inert form of mercury.

[beam me up scottie]

15. Weren't there some studies done showing

that autism was most likely misdiagnosed for decades ?
I believe I read a doctor's opinion that suggested that many of these children would have been diagnosed with other disorders until a few years ago.

[Spider Jerusalem]

16. That article made me realise I'm autistic.

That and the short quiz that came with it. Led to my diagnosis of Asperger's 2 years ago. (I was diagnosed as having ADHD when I was 9, years before Asperger's Syndrome was recognised as a diagnostic category in the US.)

The idea is interesting, and there's certainly a stong genetic component...I've noticed some autistic traits (often VERY pronounced) in family members since I was diagnosed, and I've known more than one person with an autistic sibling who went on to have an autistic child. Anecdotal, of course, but certainly suggestive.

And as far as the difference between Asperger's and autism, the general consensus is coming to be that there really isn't one...that it's a matter of degree, not of kind. The same neurological differences have been observed in the brains of those diagnosed with Kanner-type autism and Asperger's, which are not present in the brains of "neurologically typical" persons.

[lostnfound]

18. IanDb is right; it was the 4 paragraph rule.

I posted the link for those who wanted to read the whole thing. I happen to suspect that the thimerosol link exists.

The other 3 paragraphs were essential information, I then had a choice between quoting the federal govt or quoting the parent. If there was a 5 paragraph rule, I would have included both. Since the federal govt has plenty of opportunities to get its message out, I opted for the parent.

I hate that you called me disingenuous. Disingenuous is deceitful and I have no intention to deceive. I suppose I could have added a parenthetical "(some disagree)" to the 4 paragraphs, but my 4 year old was yelling downstairs at the time and I had to go.

[beam me up scottie]

20. I didn't mean to offend but there

is way too much misinformation posted on this subject as it is.

Since the title of your thread indicates that this is a fact and you chose to post the biased spin from the parent instead of the opinion of the experts, I decided to clarify before this started a landslide of bogus information.

In case you didn't notice, most people DON'T click on the link to get the whole story.

They will usually read what you posted and assume it's legit.

There is a reason why no other source is covering this story, there isn't one.

Again, no offense personally and I hope that autism rates do drop, but that won't happen if people keep believing pseudo-science instead of getting all of the facts from the medical experts.

[Ready2Snap]

21. A recent study done

by a Texas university, I forget which, found that infants
living downwind from coal-fired energy plants showed a pronounced rise in autism.

I saw someone on The Newshour about a month ago that just hammered some industry association flak
who was trying to defend the use of coal
and spewing crap about how the industry was cleaning itself up.

Every time the guy tried to downplay or refute the study's findings,
this guy would just keep repeating back at him -

"Their poisoning babies!" "Their poisoning babies!" "Their poisoning babies!" The flak was defenseless.

I was amazed that someone finally figured out how to turn the "Frank Luntz method" of issue-framing back on the Reps.