Treasongate = Groupthink (How smart people do stupid things)

[Quixote1818]

It came to me reading this thread on FR: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1443066/posts

What you will notice on that FR thread is absolutely every poster acting like a perfect sheep! NO ONE is questioning what the original poster said even though we disproved it in 30 seconds here on DU.

What you see on that FR thread is classic groupthink: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink

Groupthink happens on DU from time to time but not nearly as bad as on FR. We have a LOT of independent thinkers here and thats why we have so many arguments and people posting about not liking this or not liking that even when it hurts our side. We put truth and facts above being right. Most DU threads have several devils advocates who can shift the momentum of a topic and bring it to a screeching halt if it's found to be false or risky. I think we are VERY good about checking to see if a source is credible or not plus digging as deep as we can to find the latest info. For instance the thread about Wayne Madsen yesterday! We took the time to dissect the hell out of his work to see if we could trust what he said in the posted article. (someone post that thread if you have it handy). That kind of independent thinking prevents groupthink and leads to very good decision making. We have very smart, independent people here on DU who question EVERYTHING that is put in front of us. Not that their are not a few that act like sheep as well but certainly not at the level you see on FR. Not even close.

So on to how this influenced Treasongate:


Many of us are baffled that Rove and these guys could slip up this badly and leave themselves in a position that could put them in jail. We thought Rove was too smart to get himself into such a situation but when you get a group of people who all walk in lock step (ditto heads) you have a ripe situation for groupthink to occur.

The mistakes the Bush Administration made leading up to the Iraq war are already being put into Communications textbooks as an example of classic groupthink. Basically the three people who were devils advocates were minimized, we know them as Powell, O'Neil and Richard Clark. Anyone who took a different position from the NeoCons was pushed out of the group. This leads to poor decision making because you have a group with tunnel vision.

I think the same thing probably happened with the outing of Plame. See here: Janis listed eight symptoms that he said were indicative of groupthink:

Illusion of invulnerability
Unquestioned belief in the inherent morality of the group
Collective rationalization of group's decisions
Shared stereotypes of outgroup, particularly opponents
Self-censorship; members withhold criticisms
Illusion of unanimity (see false consensus effect)
Direct pressure on dissenters to conform
Self-appointed "mindguards" protect the group from negative information
Finally, the seven symptoms of decision affected by groupthink are:

Incomplete survey of alternatives
Incomplete survey of objectives
Failure to examine risks of preferred choice
Failure to re-appraise initially rejected alternatives
Poor information search
Selective bias in processing information at hand (see also confirmation bias)
Failure to work out contingency plans


So, what you have here is people who are generally sharp people making stupid decisions! Extremely stupid decisions. Basically every decision the Bush Administration has made on policy etc. has ben a bad decision because Bush doesn't like to have people who disagree with him on board.

Treasongate got as bad as it did because of "Groupthink". And they may have screwed up bad enough that people will be doing the Frog March to the slammer.

We should have the symptoms of Groupthink posted on DU at all times to remind us that decent is healthy! That disagreements are healthy! Groupthink has lead to a bloody war and the meaningless death of thousands! It's not something that should be taken lightly!

[trotsky]

1. Excellent analysis.

Uh-oh, was that groupthink? ;-)

[Quixote1818]

2. I think you need five people to officially form a group

Hopefully someone will disagree with me! :P

[ironman202]

7. I could never be a part of a groupthink

Groups want you to be Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean, and Reverent.

Where as I tend to be devious, fickle, obstructive, mean, rude, cruel, rebelious, glum, capricious, cowardly, dirty and heretical.

[Quixote1818]

8. If you had been part of the Bush Administration then you might have

been just strong willed enough to convince them that the Iraq War was a bad idea. Sometimes, thats what it takes.

[Quixote1818]

3. Self Delete

nt

[greekspeak]

4. Iriving Janis is probably a commie pinko librul anyway

We all know my president right or wrong, my country right or wrong, my ideology, flag, church, bigotry, all right or wrong.

Discussed at work today with colleages how little people think about their faith. The discussion we had parallels this one. We concluded that a lot of people go to church their whole lives without ever having taken a look at what their religion is all about. They just sort of do the motions and say the formulae as taught, without questioning. One of my colleagues' spouses looked at her like she was speaking in a foreign language when she pointed out issues in the priest's lecture and the literature for the practitioners to follow. Being biblical scholars, she was doing what we do everyday. He just said it was faith. He had no interest in understanding what his faith was about. I think it is the same way with a lot of these pukes. They are automatons who just do and ape what the radio/tv tells them to do. They do not think about why they are doing it; they do it because they are supposed to. Groupthink? I think.

[Quixote1818]

5. With a name like Irving she is probably a Nazi!

You are right about the faith thing. Everyone should read Thomas Jefferson's letter to his nephew about questioning even the existence of a God and investigating everything with research and human reason.

[greekspeak]

6. Research! Gasp! The Bible is all you need to read. All answers there!

Next thing you will be suggesting is that we all think critically about things. :sarcasm: