Breaking, NYT, Rove Talked To Novak!

[ruggerson]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/15/politics/15rove.html?hp&ex=1121400000&en=15d2c0ff1133350b&ei=5094&partner=homepage

By DAVID JOHNSTON and RICHARD W. STEVENSON
Published: July 15, 2005

WASHINGTON, July 14 - Karl Rove, the White House senior adviser, spoke with the columnist Robert D. Novak as he was preparing an article in July 2003 that identified a C.I.A. officer who was undercover, someone who has been officially briefed on the matter said Thursday.


Mr. Rove has told investigators that he learned from the columnist the name of the C.I.A. officer, who was referred to by her maiden name, Valerie Plame, and the circumstances in which her husband, former Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV, traveled to Africa to investigate possible uranium sales to Iraq, the person said.

After hearing Mr. Novak's account, the person who has been briefed on the matter said, Mr. Rove told the columnist: "I heard that, too."

The previously undisclosed telephone conversation, which took place on July 8, 2003, was initiated by Mr. Novak, the person who has been briefed on the matter said.

[DesEtoiles]

1. Novak - cowardly little shit

[Straight Shooter]

2. Amazing. Rove remembers, word for word, exactly what he said.

Can you remember word for word any conversation you had two years ago?

The stink from this treason is getting stronger and stronger. Rove is now playing it to stay out of jail.

[Jack Rabbit]

6. I might remember it if I were committing a crime.

Of course, this is ROve. Wrongdoing -- like character assassination -- shouldn't phase the likes of him.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

22. Haha, thats what I was thinking.

Things like this--you know, committing federal crimes--tend to stick in your mind. Even Rove.

[FreedomAngel82]

31. Or maybe

he kept a journal of it all? :shrug:

[ruggerson]

Which, differs, funnily enough, from what Novak wrote

Rove claims he said "I heard that too"

But, Novak wrote that Rove said "Oh, you know about it"

"Oh, you know about it" can be far more easily construed as
confirmation as a second source of the story outing Plame.

If Rove is indeed Novak's confirmation, his second source, and this telephone call occurred before Novak's column, then how can Rove expect anyone to believe his claim that he "didn't know her name" and that he heard about this from other journalists.

[Zen Democrat]

75. This isn't what the latest WP story says - Says Rove can't recall exactly

who told him about Wilson's wife, and when he might have heard it.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/15/AR2005071500036.html

[Melodybe]

77. Bolton, Libby, Cheney it is one of the 3

I'm betting that they all sat around and talked about it.

Treasonous bastards.

[mcctatas]

3. Okay...

so where the hell did Novak get the info from in the first place, and more important, why is the disgusting little fuckwad not in a shitstorm of his own???:wtf: :mad: :mad:

[Catholic Sensation]

9. i believe he's actually been testifying

which could be an explanation for his being mum regarding this whole thing, prosecutor could have threatened jail time if he discussed this.

[johncoby2]

4. Someone tell me what this says. and why it is important.

I am confused.

[Edgewater_Joe]

7. It Shows Rove Didn't Learn Plame's Name From Novak

In other words, it shows another clear-cut LIE that Rove told early in the investigation and in the story.

I am beginning to think Rove really will go down for this ...

[Stephanie]

36. vice versa

[K-W]

83. It shows both.

Rove was a confirming source, both men knew about it before the phone call.

[adarling]

55. is this good or bad

I kinda picked up that is is bad? someone explain i am really tired and kinda had a hard day so trying to figure this out is taking last ounces of brain left from today :(

[dooner]

65. It sounds sorta good for Rove

It's saying that Novak (reporter who first printed the Plame name/story) already knew about Plame before he talked to Rove. According to this, Rove only confirmed what Novak already knew.

Still leaves some questions, like who was Novak's source?
(Although to me it's looking more and more like it was Judith Miller, jailbird/reporter.)

Of course, this story could have been cooked up.

[madfloridian]

5. And when did Rove tell Chris Matthews she was "fair game."?

He ain't off the hook at all.

[Zen Democrat]

45. Off the hook? This nails him to the wall.

[madfloridian]

54. Yes, pretty damning.

But when did Chris Matthews say he called him about the "fair game."
I heard Wilson talking about it today, but no time line.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

85. A couple of days before Nofacts column, iirc.

[KeepItReal]

8. Novak as human shield?

Sounds like Novak did the initiating and all Karl said was "yeah, I heard that too" !?

Yeah, right.

[mcctatas]

21. Isn't that an oxymoron???

"Novak as a HUMAN shield"? :smoke:

[FormerRepublican]

10. Well...

This is coming from the New York Times - the same paper that all the other White House leaks have come from. The leak about Noor Kahn was printed in the New York Times, Judith Miller is sitting in jail because the outing of Valerie Plame was leaked to the New York Times, the New York Times printed endless falsified drivel by Judith Miller about WMD in Iraq and scare stories from Chalabi for BushCo, and now they're printing THIS leak?

What do you want to bet that Rove leaked THIS story to the New York Times to cool the heat? No doubt Judith Miller used her one phone call from jail to phone it in.

[Stephanie]

39. wow, you really are "former" now, aren't you?

nice to have you on board!

[bleever]

60. That's some pretty up-to-the-moment thinking there.

Thanks.

And I think it's too late in the process for the usual forces of misdirection to have the effect they used to.

Maybe Novak was deep enough into the plausible deniability loop that he thought that he could surrender his primary source (who didn't know she was actually undercover) but still go with the story because Rove confirmed it (without actually revealing it, though he DID know she was undercover).

Kind of like saying, "Yeah, I bought this car stereo from a guy on the street, but he didn't know it was stolen" and "Karl said hey, you got a good deal on that stolen stereo", and nobody takes the fall.

Except, it's a weak and stupid scheme. This ain't the court of public opinion; this is federal law.


:)

[ewagner]

84. I think you've got it right

What do you want to bet that Rove leaked THIS story to the New York Times to cool the heat? No doubt Judith Miller used her one phone call from jail to phone it in.

except I don't think it was Judith but it would be sooooo Rovish for Rove to use a leak to cover-up a leak......

I first read this about midnight (central time) last night and have had some time to digest it....the story based on "a person who has been briefed..." is shaky as hell and I think part of a misinformation campaign.... I hope Fitzgerald is on top of this.

[Pithy Cherub]

11. This is just pregnant with possibilities...

Rove confirms classified information, definitely not a Phi Beta Kappa move. That means Novak got it from two other people - who are they? Rove under the guise of being helpful fanned the flames and that could be construed as malicious intent. But back to those other two people, who leaked to whom in the White House and who authorized leaks from everybody to ensure the message got out.

More More More....:applause:

[kentuck]

12. This is an interesting comment :

<snip>
The person who provided the information about Mr. Rove's conversation with Mr. Novak declined to be identified, citing requests by Mr. Fitzgerald that no one discuss the case. The person discussed the matter in the belief that Mr. Rove was truthful in saying he did not disclose Ms. Wilson's identity.

[More Than A Feeling]

19. It's Scott McClellan!

Mr. "I cannot discuss an ongoing investigation" himself!

[kentuck]

35. Or Judy Miller from her jail cell...

giving the scoop to her fellow reporters at the NYTimes ??

[maddezmom]

23. yes...very interesting

wonder if that was Scotty before he learned that Rove lied to him. :shrug:

[niallmac]

13. Ho Ho! Are they eating their young?

If Rove did not hear this from Novak but instead read it in documents he has clearance to read (as I have no doubt he did) then everybody starts trying to save his own ass and screw loyalty to the Fuhrer. Now all Fitz has to do is be sure to have enough canary food on hand. That's my titillating uninformed wishful thinking read of it. Oh I hope I hope I hope.

[faithnotgreed]

14. wait - how can rove simultaneously not know plames name (says he

learned it from novak) and also agree with novaks account upon hearing it saying "i heard that too"

i am clearly missing something right

[Catholic Sensation]

16. the writing isn't clear

i believe the story is saying karl rove had heard that she was an agent, not that the agent's name was valerie plame.

[faithnotgreed]

24. i agree its not clear. so rove and novak have this conversation

but no one speaks a name at all. so then how does rove know to agree with the account novak gives him if he doesnt know who they are talking about

[Stephanie]

42. her name makes no difference

As J. Wilson said, her name is Mrs. Wilson. It's Valerie Wilson. It's Valerie Plame. Naming her as Wilson's wife is the same thing as naming her. Puh-leeze.

[Catholic Sensation]

57. i was refering to the post where the guy didn't know what the sentence was

saying, not the point of the article. I was clearing that up for him.

[Zen Democrat]

50. I think it's clear that this is the fake story Novak and Rove cooked up

for the prosecutor. But in doing so, it contradicts public statements both Novak and Rove have made. I've read from multiple sources that Fitzgerald "doesn't believe Novak's testimony".

[LiviaOlivia]

71. Exactly.

I wouldn't wrap fish with this. It's smells.

[Oilwellian]

15. Leave it to the Douchebag of Liberty...

to cover for Turd Blossom. The stink is overwhelming.

[Cush]

18. it confirms Rove knew she was CIA

After hearing Mr. Novak's account, the person who has been briefed on the matter said, Mr. Rove told the columnist: "I heard that, too."

[cynatnite]

17. Novak said the info was given to him

If not rover, then who? Well, I think it was rover leaking to Novak. History and all that.

Libby, possibly?

[kentuck]

20. Another couple very interesting points in the article:

Notice "the person said"....they obviously have another source that is spilling a lot of beans... Could it be Novak himself?
====================================================================

<snip>
As the political debate about Mr. Rove grows more heated, Mr. Fitzgerald is in what he has said are the final stages of his investigation into whether anyone at the White House violated a criminal statute that, under certain circumstances, makes it a crime for a government official to disclose the names of covert operatives like Ms. Wilson.

<snip>
Mr. Novak then turned to the subject of Ms. Wilson, identifying her by name, the person said. Mr. Novak said he knew that in contrast to Mr. Wilson's suggestion in his Op-Ed article that he had been sent to Niger because of Mr. Cheney's interest in the matter, Mr. Wilson had been sent at the urging of his wife.

[Disturbed]

34. Sounds like a bullshit coverup from..

an anon source.

"Rove read it in documents he has clearance to read."

Absolutely false. At the time Rove was not in any offical capacity of the Govt. He was a political aid to Shrub. Rove had no clearance to read CIA documents or anty classified material.

[FreedomAngel82]

59. Exactly

Bush didn't promote him until a few days after the 2004 election.

[Stephanie]

43. So Rove did not pronounce her name, he just agreed when Novak did

Parsing.

[In Truth We Trust]

25. IMO the NY Times has NO credibility whatsoever. They shilled leading

up top the war and have been carrying corporate/oligarchy water for years now. This is a bullshit story from the get go. Don't buy it. Rove and Cheney/Cheneys office are the traitoras and should go down hard for this treason!

[gulfcoastliberal]

52. Exactly

The NYT is one shitty rag, barely better than the Post - only cause they have Krugman..

[Bumblebee]

26. To their credit

While they give this biased source space to spin, they do try to compensate for it with quite a few "buts," suggesting that this revelation will only make Democrats more emboldened and make Scottie's life even more miserable. The second source for Cooper is probably Libby; for Novak, the "non-partisan" source was in all likelihood Miller, and that's what she is protecting. It's clearer now that it all pretty much goes through Miller since the question is who told her -- and why a NYT reporter who is supposed to be valued for her "objectivity" shares it with Novak whom everyone knows as anything but. But we all know that Miller was convinced WMD were there because she was duped by people she stupidly trusted or wanted to trust -- so discrediting Wilson was probably a burning desire she had very much in common with both Novak and Rove. I hope the NYT will do this story next :)

[Stephanie]

47. great analysis and I think you're right

but who was Miller's source? I say it's one of the neo-cons. Unless it's Cheney himself. In that case I would go to jail too! :scared:

[Bumblebee]

53. She was very chummy with them all, so it could be

anyone, including Cheney.

[crispini]

48. This is all like a game of telephone.... nt

[Mr_Spock]

27. Circular firing squad??

What on earth is going on here? The information didn't just drop from the sky - they all need to move to Siberia.

[DURHAM D]

28. Couldn't make it through the bullshit. This is the story that

Rove and Novak have had two years to cookup and memorize. Not a surprise.

[proud patriot]

29. Novack's article sourced 2 senior WH officials didn't it ?

[Bumblebee]

33. Cooper did. Novak said one official

and one "non-partisan" source. Cooper said two officials were basically pushing the story so let's wait until he writes his article. There should be all kind of pressure on him now to do it fast because Time does not want to be scooped again by Newsweek - or NYT.

[proud patriot]

38. Thanks

:-)

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

76. Two senior administration officials told Novak. From that article

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/robertnovak/rn20030714.shtml
Mission to Niger
Robert Novak (archive)

July 14, 2003

snip-------------------------

Wilson never worked for the CIA, but his wife, Valerie Plame, is an Agency operative on weapons of mass destruction. Two senior administration officials told me Wilson's wife suggested sending him to Niger to investigate the Italian report. The CIA says its counter-proliferation officials selected Wilson and asked his wife to contact him. "I will not answer any question about my wife," Wilson told me

[DURHAM D]

30. No wonder Drudge posted an alert to this article earlier this

evening. We just got ROVED. Spin, spin, spin.

Who is talking from the inside? Fitzgerald will not be able to make a case against Rove.

[Bumblebee]

37. Wrong assumption, perhaps

Fitz knows infinitely more -- this is just a spin, and it will last only till the next spin -- but the case itself progesses in a different universe, hopefully

[me b zola]

64. try again

"We just got ROVED"

Bullshit


"Who is talking from the inside?"

What makes you believe that one word of the so-called 'insider' is true? At this point they are pulling whatever bull they can from their asses to keep public support from becoming so low that members of Congress will continue to do their bidding on the floor of the House & Senate. Just think about how the pukes wouldn't back chimp on social security because it is political suicide with their constituents. All they are trying to do here is keep the citizens from kicking in the gates.



"Fitzgerald will not be able to make a case against Rove."

I bet more than one criminal inditement gets handed to high level people in the WH, and a few more will be shown the door.




What do you think sludge would be writing? Apologies for being a mouth piece for treasonous war criminals?

[Stephanie]

32. Ummmm - so what about yesterday's Talking Points?

[americanstranger]

40. Not only is that article total bullshit,

it's probably the worst-written article I've ever seen in the NYT.

Seriously. The narrative's all fucked up. It's like someone typed the story on paper, threw the pages up in the air, picked them up out of order and printed it that way.

-as

[halobeam]

41. you don't think they MEAN to confuse people do ya?

LOL... can't help but suspect they aren't as stupid as they write. I say they did it this way purposely.

[Bumblebee]

46. It is because in an awkward kind of a manner

they are trying to compensate for it being so one-sided. It all depends on the general headline it produces for people who do not follow it all as religiously as we do. And that headline will probably be "Rove spoke about Plame to another reporter" which ain't half bad.

[Zen Democrat]

44. This also discloses Novak's lies ...

"no political gunslingers". They are all lying. I think this will show that Rove and Novak cooked up a cover story to tell the Grand Jury and, Voila!, a conspiracy.

But what this "source" does disclose here is that Rove was Novak's CONFIRMATION source. Heavy.

This should keep the story spiraling along for a while.

[DanCa]

49. Can we get novak and rove the same cell

I was just thinking that neither of these psudeo human beings should be allowed to walk the streets.

[Roy]

66. "Can we get novak and rove the same cell"

Hmmmmm..... Wonder which one would win the fight for.. err... the top bunk?

[DanCa]

67. Go to jail go directly to jail

And do not I repeat do not drop the soap.

[kentuck]

51. I think either Novak or Miller is the source for this story....

It hasn't disappeared yet. And it won't so long as there is a reporter in jail.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

56. It's getting deep

I think it's time to put on some of those hip-waders they use for fishing.

This lacks any real substance that I can see, or is that only me? I feel this is the official cover-up story that they had on the back burner, but it's so full of holes it doesn't appear to hold any water.

The only thing I am sure of is that Scotty will be flooded with new questions tomorrow, and once again he will decline to answer any of them.

[Bumblebee]

58. The AP story -- yet another variation and

both cannot be right! :) People are talking -- that's a good sign, and even if they are all protecting Rove, they do contradict each other which is GREAT!!


Source: Rove Got CIA Agent ID From Media
By JOHN SOLOMON, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON -- Presidential confidant Karl Rove testified to a grand jury that he learned the identity of a CIA operative originally from journalists, then informally discussed the information with a Time magazine reporter days before the story broke, according to a person briefed on the testimony.

The person, who works in the legal profession and spoke only on condition of anonymity because of the secrecy of grand jury proceedings, told The Associated Press that Rove testified last year that he remembers specifically being told by columnist Robert Novak that Valerie Plame, the wife of a harsh Iraq war critic, worked for the CIA.

ADVERTISEMENT
Rove testified that Novak originally called him the Tuesday before Plame's identity was revealed in July 2003 to discuss another story. The conversation eventually turned to former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, who was strongly criticizing the Bush administration's Iraq war policy and the intelligence it used to justify the war, the source said.

The person said Rove testified that Novak told him he had learned and planned to report in a weekend column that Wilson's wife, Plame, had worked for the CIA, and the circumstances on how her husband traveled to Africa to check bogus claims of alleged nuclear material sales to Iraq.

[Bumblebee]

61. and let's remember he testified 3 times!

so they probably have 3 versions of the same story by now, each with an added recollection

[tuvor]

62. Then why the fuck didn't bush stand up for his man this week?

Ongoing investigation, schminvestigation.

Commander Cuckoobananas never let anything like that get in the way of anything that might be to his benefit. Are they trying to say he suffered a lot of public-opinion damage this week when he didn't have to?

I smell buuuuuulshit!

[Bumblebee]

63. AP IS DEAD WRONG AND SHOULD BE MADE

AWARE OF THAT

But at the same time, Wilson acknowledged his wife was no longer in an undercover job at the time Novak's column first identified her. "My wife was not a clandestine officer the day that Bob Novak blew her identity," he said.


He did not say that -- he was talking about the vanity fair article. She WAS undercover then!!

[Catrina]

73. Yes he was talking about the Vanity Fair article

He said she was undercover until the Novak article blew her cover.

If this article is true, then Rove knew Valerie Wilson's ID before Novak's article came out.

But Rove's story now is that he only found out her ID when he read Novak's article, iow, when everyone else did!

The RNC mouthpieces better stop spreading the word that Rove knew only after he read Novak's article!

[bvar22]

68. If ROVE discovered that...

...CorpoMedia Mouthpieces were talking about and naming CIA Undercover Agents during a time of WAR, wouldn't he be bound by LAW to report this to the FBI?

Isn't CONFIRMING that someone is an AGENT the same as OUTING an agent?
Oldest trick in the Journalist's book of tricks: calling an official to casually confirm a rumor or a suspicion.

[writes2000]

69. Delicious: Now Rove & Novak are contradicting each other

Clearly, Rove's dumbass lawyer is the one spilling the beans here. But what's most interesting is the apparent contradiction between what Novak "remembers" and what Rove "remembers".

It seems like according to the Rove side, Novak told Rove and it was the first time that Rove heard that about it. And it sounds like Novak is saying that when he told Rove, Rove replied "Oh, you've heard that info, too." Novak's version implies that Rove already knew about Plame.

And of course, Rove and the Republicans are doing everything they can to convince people that Rove heard it from reporters first.

Too bad for them. I don't think Fitzgerald is buying that story at all. And I think he has proof Rove knew before Novak told him.

[LSK]

70. my take is they are trying to say Rove is not the original leak

Novak was told by someone else and then Novak told Rove.

[rumpel]

72. Give me a break! So why would the WHIG have a meeting almost 3 months

prior to that discussing their background intel on Wilson!

Wilson: Well, my view of this is based on what people have told me. It is not so much my theory but what others have told me about this.

Shortly after Dr. Mohamed ElBaradei (Director General of the International Atomic Energy Agency) announced to the UN Security Council in March, 2003 that the documents that the State Department provided him were forgeries, I went on CNN and said that I thought the government new more about this than it was letting on.

My understanding is that shortly thereafter, a meeting was held - sometime in March of 2003 - in the offices of the Vice President at which it was decided to do a “work up” on me. A work up means to run an intel op to glean all the information you can about “me.” My understanding is that at a minimum, Scooter Libby was at this meeting.

But in retrospect looking at this, the natural group who would meet to discuss something like this would be the White House Iraq Group (WHIG).

http://www.rawstory.com/

[writes2000]

74. Yep, yep, yep. I'm betting Fitzgerald has proof of that "work up"

And he has proof that Rove saw the "work up".

Too many people have testified. Rove's lies can't catch up to the truth.

[Ready2Snap]

78. Let me get this straight

Rove wasn't the inital leak, he was the second "senior White House official" Novak cited.
Then we still don't know who the initial leak was, que no?
But there's a good chance Fitzgerald might, Miller probably does.
Bush, maybe. Cheney, definitely. The rest, who cares.

[iwillalwayswonderwhy]

79. I see where this is going

Unbelieveable, but here's what I think is gonna be Karl's defense.

"Yeah, I heard that, too."

Rove will say that was NOT a confirmation, but just a conversational device to keep him talking. He will say that Novak MISTAKENLY took it as a confirmation.

At the point when Rove talked to Cooper, he thought the information was public knowledge because of his conversation with Novak. Therefore, he didn't knowingly out anybody because he believed it to be already public.

[Roland99]

80. ABC's Good Morning America on Rove (Donaldson and Roberts)

Sam Donaldson and Cokie Roberts are RIDICULING Rove and laughing at the new reports that Novak leaked Plame's name TO Rove!

Now they're showing a clip from the The Daily Show.


Rove: "I don't know her name. I didn't leak her name"

Then Stewart ridiculing Rove.



This was great! They were all laughing at Rove!

[ThomWV]

81. There Is No Difference In First Disclosing an Identity or In Confirming it

Think about it for a minute. If Rove was the first to tell or the last to tell, the method of telling is immaterial, he still told Ms. Wilson's name. I do not think the law says it is illegal to disclose an agent's name only if you are the first to do it. I believe it says its illegal to do and so its of no matter if someone else has done it before you. Confirmation of the name is really no different at all from first disclosure, it give over the information and that is what the law is there to prevent.

[smoogatz]

82. "someone who has been officially briefed on the matter"

By whom? Rove? Certainly not Fitzgerald, who seems a remarkably canny, no-nonsense player, who couldn't care less about what's being said in the media--exactly the opposite of the publicity-seeking Ken Starr. Anyone disseminating leaks from Fitzgerald's team would find themselves up in front of a grand jury so fast their head would spin, judging from what we've seen so far. I think the Times does a disservice to its readership by not disclosing a bit more about its source. Honestly, I don't recall ever seeing a story sourced this way in a major newspaper. It's very odd.