We've had it all wrong, folks. Rove learned about Plame from journalists

[Poiuyt]

not the other way around. I feel so stupid now. I guess most WH officials get their confidential info from journalists.

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20050715/D8BBJU8G0.html

Source: Rove Got CIA Agent ID From Media
Email this Story

WASHINGTON (AP) - Presidential confidant Karl Rove testified to a grand jury that he learned the identity of a CIA operative originally from journalists, then informally discussed the information with a Time magazine reporter days before the story broke, according to a person briefed on the testimony.

The person, who works in the legal profession and spoke only on condition of anonymity because of the secrecy of grand jury proceedings, told The Associated Press that Rove testified last year that he remembers specifically being told by columnist Robert Novak that Valerie Plame, the wife of a harsh Iraq war critic, worked for the CIA.

more-

[BattyDem]

1. So journalists know the identity of NOCs ...

but WH officials don't. :eyes:

[Mojambo]

2. Disinformation. A weak and desperate try if you ask me. n/t

[halobeam]

3. yea right.

[jsamuel]

4. THAT IS WRONG

it said Rove said to Novak, "You heard that too"

That only means that Novak learned about it from someone else first!

DON'T SPREAD DISINFORMATION HERE!!!

[BattyDem]

6. The first line of the article says:

"Presidential confidant Karl Rove testified to a grand jury that he learned the identity of a CIA operative originally from journalists."


Poiuyt was being sarcastic. :-)

[jsamuel]

10. Oh... sorry, a little jumpy I guess

All the Republican spin has gotten me riled up. I guess I just need to stay focused on the investigation part of this story and stay angry at the perps.

[BattyDem]

16. Don't worry ... we all get that way from time to time.

The never-ending spin is enough to drive you mad! :crazy:

[insane_cratic_gal]

22. It's ok, but were taking your coffee away!

:donut:

[napi21]

5. I just heard this on a news break on KGO radio.

My first thought was, UH OH, Rove's turning against Novak!

My guess is that Bob Novak won't take that accusation quietly! He might be a Pub loyalist, but I doubt very much he's going to take a fall for Rove!!!

[seabeyond]

12. journalist doesnt get in trouble for this n/t

[napi21]

19. Not the same kind of trouble, but that means Movak had to get

the info from someone else! If Fitz put Miller in jail, I doubt he'd hesitate to do the same with Bob. I don't think Bob would go to jail for ANYBODY!

[dchill]

28. Don't forget - from the beginning ...

this story has been about "two senior White House officials" who called at least six different reporters PRIOR to Novak's column. So... If Rove and some other "official" called these reporters, then Novak's source could still be Rove, second hand. It's still classified information, and still a crime.

[Stephanie]

7. Gosh dang!

And the whole time, I had it the other way around. I guess there is a security clearance mechanism for reporters, right? Like Novak, Miller, Cooper all had access to CIA secrets, just in case. Right?

[Bumblebee]

13. Wilson did not

say she was NOT undercover when Novak wrote about her -- they have it all wrong. He said she was not after he wrote about her and by the time the article appeared in the vanity fair. What uncompetent bastards!

[halobeam]

15. What number story/spin is this? It's amazing

and I don't know why, but it is truly fascinating, the spin cycle in this administration. Then the news assholes just repeat, without any investigative work, as usual. They still need to be spoon fed. I'm so glad this is in COURT, the spin doesn't count there. The truth will come out and these guys are dirty. Now if we could just haul the irresponsible reporters to court, then we are talking factual pieces. Gees.

[pacalo]

8. So, it looks like one of the charges will be perjury after all.

Notice that these reporters are calling Rove, not the other way around, about "other" stories & the subject of Plame just happens to come up as an aside. Yeah, that's the ticket.

[Erika]

9. How silly the GOP is getting

but it's the usual Bush crap, blame everyone else and never hold yourself accountable.

[uppityperson]

11. Novak told Rove? I feel so foolish to have suspected Rove @ all.

:sarcasm: :rofl:

[dchill]

20. I feel foolish too!

Have we participated in an unconscionable smear campaign against a thoroughly decent, ethical, law-abiding man? How could we have ever thought that... wait - we're talking about Karl Rove. And didn't AP have access to the vote tabulators in 2004? Guess it's time to do BushCo another big favor...

To be fair, my impression of the article is that it only reports what Rove allegedly testified to; it does not claim that it's true...

[writes2000]

14. I think Fitzgerald is going to nail them...

I've been trying to figure out what those judges saw that made them forego the press' rights because of the seriousness of this case. What's the "shift" that one judge referred to?

I suspect that Fitzgerald got proof of the work-up that the White House had done on Wilson. And in that work-up is the info on Valerie Plame Wilson.

That shows a purposeful effort to get information on Wilson to use against him. Once Fitz has that, all he has to do is prove that members of the White House shared that confidential, classified info with members of the media.

The work-up would show intent. That's why they needed the testimony of those two reporters. Fitzgerald had to prove that someone in the White House told someone else FIRST.

And if my guess is right, it sounds like Cooper's testimony is exactly what Fitzgerald would need to indict Karl Rove.

[skids]

23. Bingo.

Dig into the Greatest threads a bit, you'll find researched articles finding the same clues as to what's going on. Fitzgerald is going for perjury against Rove (at minimum, but probably just as a tack-on to the leak charges,) and possibly also building a conspiracy case for charges of espionage against other top level officials.

[Stephanie]

26. Mark Shields on Friday said that AT LEAST perjury

but possibly more serious charges.

[writes2000]

31. I highly doubt Rove told the complete truth

He certainly didn't tell the truth to the press. Nor did he tell the truth to Scotty M.

No, I have no doubt Rove believed he could out-manuever the FBI and the CIA. His ego will be his downfall.

[writes2000]

30. It explains why Fitzgerald had Cooper to testify after the email release

The emails prove that Karl Rove revealed Valerie Plame's identity as a CIA agent. The work-up on Wilson provides the intent to discredit/harm Wilson. It wasn't just a casual slip-up by Rove.

But if Fitzgerald prosecutes Rove he needed to have Cooper's full testimony first to make sure his case was bullet proof. And now, thanks to Rove's lawyer, Rove is in no position to huddle with Cooper and massage their stories.

[Stephanie]

34. what do you mean?

Rove's lawyer f*cked up?

[writes2000]

35. Rove's attorney's big mouth to the press freed Cooper to testify.

Cooper was ready to go to jail until he read Rove's lawyer's comments telling the press that Cooper wasn't protecting Rove. Cooper then asked Rove to release him from confidentiality so he could testify therefore avoiding jail.

If Cooper had gone to jail, then Fitzgerald would only have Cooper's emails. Emails are open to interpretation. For instance: Is it absolutely clear in Cooper's emails that Cooper did not know Plame was CIA before his conversation with Rove? The emails say that Rove told Cooper but Rove's attorney could argue/suggest that it's possible that Cooper could have heard that info from someone else first.

Cooper's testimony potentially seals the case against Rove. And Rove's attorney's big mouth led the path to Cooper testifying.

[Stephanie]

37. oh goody

Rove's atty is just as competent as a GOP atty can be, i.e., not.

fitz peeled them off - now it is each "man" for himself - and knowing the GOP, they will all point fingers at each other - note how they are allowing a woman reporter to spend 4 mos in jail for their own wrongdoing

[Stephanie]

24. The difference between LEAKING the truth and PLANTING a fake story

The press has a right to protect a source, but that does not extend to aiding and abetting a felony in promoting a false story. Which is what they wanted the reporters to do. Only Novak succumbed.

[seabeyond]

17. i read in one of the many posts, novak and rove called each

other a lot once they were in trouble, the records show, and it appears they were coming up with a story. maybe, and this is all just maybe,.....fitz knows all this and more. maybe this is part of where he gets in trouble

[uppityperson]

21. To music now... (like Barney sings)

I told you
You told me
Let's go bomb an I-raq-i
With a great big bomb
and a shot from me to you
We can do any thing we want.

sorry last line doesn't rhyme.

[seabeyond]

29. hey

that was good. having little ones i can even hear it in voice. clever you

[Stephanie]

27. good point

not the crime but the coverup is so cliched but so true

[me b zola]

36. rover testified *three* times

which indicates to me that they have caught him in a lie, or at least inconsistencies.

and then there is this:

~snip~

This is not the first time Mr. Rove has been linked to a leak reported by Mr. Novak. In 1992, Mr. Rove was fired from the Texas campaign to re-elect the first President Bush because of suspicions that he had leaked information to Mr. Novak about shortfalls in the Texas organization's fund-raising.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/15/politics/15rove.html?pagewanted=2&ei=5094&en=15d2c0ff1133350b&hp&ex=1121400000&partner=homepage

[seabeyond]

18. this doesnt work cause novak asked if she was covert

he says he specifically asked that question. if he had all the info and was giving it to rove, he wouldnt need to ask

[spindoctor]

25. Was that before or after he (Rove) passed that info on to Cooper?

It doesn't matter from who or where Turd Blossom got the info. Passing it on is still a crime and if he got his information beforehand, it is clear that he DID pass it on knowingly, contradicting an earlier statement by his lawyer.

[jobycom]

32. If at first your bullshit doesn't succeed, try try again

How many different stories does this guy get to make up before the media just openly declares he's a liar? I mean, the first time my kids change their story I know both stories are lies. What's this, Rove's third, fourth, fifth? "I didn't leak her name. I know nothing about the case. I was just correcting a story. Oh yeah, I just learned the information from the media. And it wasn't even a crime." If it wasn't even a crime, why have you been lying about it for two years?

I don't blame Rove. I blame the idiots who still defend him. Of course Rove is going to try to save his own neck. But how stupid do you have to be to buy it?

[Igel]

33. Somebody seriously violated the code of ethics to bring us

a bit of story that, no doubt, will prove completely redundant. Not a whistle blower, because the person's merely leaking what the grand jury and prosecutor heard.

[jsamuel]

38. shoot, could be Rove's lawyer that leaked this

why not?

He was there and heard it. His client has an interrest in this story being broadcast everywhere.

ROVE HEARD IT FROM NOVAK!!!

[writes2000]

39. The AP story says their source for the story works in the legal profession

Gee, who could it be?

[jsamuel]

40. I think we figured that one out quick enough, lets see if the media can

...

David Gregory, will you be the first to ask Rove's lawyer if he was the one that leaked this story?

Cause I don't think anyone else will.