Novak reportedly ratted everyone out to Grand Jury

[AnnInLa]

from www.americablog.org.....go to site for a click-thru

Novak reportedly ratted everyone out to Grand Jury
by John in DC - 7/15/2005 03:07:00 PM

RADAR got a pretty good scoop here (I had nothing to do with it).

Interestingly, not only does it say that Novak spilled his guts to the grand jury, but he reportedly told them that the NYT's Judith Miller told Novak about Valerie Plame's CIA identity, then Novak called his two White House sources (one of which was Rove) for confirmation.

Interesting. So, when Karl Rove's anonymous source says today that Rove found out about Plame from journalists, did that source mean Judy Miller?

Did Robert Novak rat on New York Times reporter Judith Miller? While some have suggested Miller—who never wrote a word about CIA spook Valerie Plame—was dragged into the leak probe when her name turned up on a White House call log, several beltway insiders close to the investigation say special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald learned of Miller’s involvement from Novak himself.

Though the GOP hatchetman claims he’s never spoken to the grand jury about the column, a well-known Democratic pundit tells Radar, “Novak is the media’s Joseph Valachi,” referring to the 1960’s mafia capo who was the first mobster to testify against La Cosa Nostra. “There’s no question he rolled over.” According to our sources, Miller shared Plame’s identity with her perfidious fellow neocon after deciding not to publish it herself; Novak then called his two White House sources for confirmation and wrote the July 14, 2003 column that blew Plame’s cover.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[aquart]

2. And it's okay for an American journalist to rat out US secret agents?

There's no, like, law against it?

[Tigress DEM]

45. Still begs the question, "Who told Judith?"

And... two years of cover up is still wrong. If Rove knew, he was obligated to tell someone in the CIA to protect Plame and he should have stonewalled Judith or Novak anyway.

Rove "Oh,you viscous brute, you called me and asked this question you already know the answer to, so I'll tell you what I know, but you are just evil you know."

Riiiiiiight! :sarcasm:

[carpetbagger]

51. So we have our cake and eat it, too.

After years of being ridiculed for insisting that the Bush administration was neither honest or moral, nor interested in American security, we can now say that we know of specific individuals who sold out their country for political gain, as well as being able to say that there are others who still sit at their desks after having done so.

I think people are finally getting it.

[Egalitariat]

66. Legal in the US. Illegal in Britain****

nm

[stray cat]

3. Any evidence that Rove told Miller?

[EVDebs]

4. So who in the intelligence community told Judith Miller who told Novak ?

Both Miller and Novak are non-official-cover-OperationMockingbird operatives for the CIA, which makes that a domestic illegal operation for the CIA to be doing IN THE FIRST PLACE. It gets even more interesting since this involves the propagandizing of Bush's reason for going to war in Iraq in the first place.

It pertains to deceiving Congress in order to start a war. Nothing impeachable about that, now, is there ?

[kenny blankenship]

7. Maybe you have the wrong agency in mind

just a thought.

[EVDebs]

30. Nope, I know it's an oxymoron but they're central and an agency

but they certainly have an unintelligent aspect to much of what they do. I know there are factions in the CIA (Carl Oglesby The Yankee and Cowboy War, 1976, http://www.namebase.org/sources/BX.html )
and maybe the Bush 'cowboy' faction of nattering neocons has overstepped the bounds.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

54. Until Plame's group was compromised, the CIA was one of the main....

...groups arguing AGAINST the NeoCon charge that Iraq had WMDs.

Additionally, it was the CIA that requested that the Department of Justice launch a criminal investigation into the outing of Plame.

The CIA is not the only intelligence agency that plays the "Mockingbird" game. The FBI has done it for decades. Likewise for military intelligence...look at Bob Woodward's background...if he's not Naval Intelligence, I would be greatly surprised. There are lots of other intelligence agencies operating in the U. S. and abroad to include but not limited to the Defense Intelligence Agency, Air Force Intelligence, Army Intelligence, NRO, and NSA.

The group that I believe is involved with Judith Miller, Novak, Rove, and the rest of the WHIG organization is the Pentagon-based Office of Strategic Plans/Intelligence (OSP/OSI) that operated under Douglas Feith. That group was actively involved in "fixing" U. S. intelligence around the idea that Iraq had WMDs. They also were the last group to "review" intelligence data before it was seen by Congress.

[EVDebs]

58. We're on the same page.

BTW, Ben Bradlee's background as boyhood friend of Richard Helms

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKbradleeB.htm

along with the navy's interest in getting rid of Nixon and Dr. K --after blowing the Delta class sub deal with the SALT talks (see Blind Man's Bluff p246-247 by Sherry Sontag and Christopher Drew). Shoot, Phil Graham's intell background also.

There is an overall 'cabal' of empowered neocons who seem to far outnumber the more sane analysts and officers.

You get no argument from me ! It just fries me that now when intell can really assist in getting the truth out the current administration would rather endanger agents and the nation than expose its broad postior to exposure, so to speak. Woodward now defends this administration but in the old days the CIA helped get Nixon outta there:

"I have told Woodward everything I know about the Watergate case, except the Mullen Company's tie to the CIA."--Robert F. Bennett, testifying before House Special Committee on Intelligence, July 2, 1974.

Robert Bennett was the head of Robert R. Mullen and Co., a CIA front headquartered in the very same building as the CIA's Domestic Operations Division."

Bennett is now Senator from UT-R.

www.metroactive.com/papers/sonoma/07.03.97/scoop-9727.html

[Eloriel]

5. I would absolutely have pegged him as the rollover type

No surprises there, but it was a VERY delicious read. Woohooo!

[kenny blankenship]

6. Rove confirmed

Novak's question --making him guilty of Espionage Act /IPA violations.
Rove's lawyer wants to make it sound as though Karl committed no crime in talking to Novak. But if Novak called for confirmation, what Karl-Heinz did exactly matches the concept of "blowing an agent's cover."

Meanwhile, Judith is looking pretty damn guilty now of more than simple stubborness in the defense of a mistakenly broad idea of the 1st Amendment's coverage of confidentiality.

We eagerly await the story of how Judith Miller learned of Plame's undercover activities on behalf of our Government.

Multiple indictments in the works I'm thinking.

[Bumblebee]

8. Makes perfect sense

She was as pissed at Wilson as they were since she was peddling the same story. So it is now about who had told her, and that's what F. is after. In that she really stops being a journalist and becomes a guilty party, so I hope we will be spared the continuation of the poor Judith chorus from the rest of the media. As to Rove, confirming _is_ a crime. When Novak got it from Miller, that was just "gossip," when he got a confirmation from Rove -- that's using classified information for inappropriate purposes. Waxman's memo is right on on that. Boy, this story is very, very far from over!

[AnnInLa]

18. I really, really want to see the red-faced press

who has defended Miller and made her into some kind of martyr...after this proves to be true. I want to see that almost as bad as I want to see rove or libby or preferably someone higher...go to jail right along-side of Miller.

[pscot]

9. This is the most plausible explanation

so far. It takes the known fact and fits them into a coherent whole. Really has the ring of truth.

[ewagner]

31. Agree

most plausible explanation yet...

[elfin]

10. I think Rove got it out to at least three

people away from Miller with instructions they leak it to her, knowing full well it would go from her to publishing. But the Times demurred having been stung by Judy's unquestioning of info fed to her during the run-up. Then when Judy fed it to Novak, Rove could "confirm" in a lukewarm manner to Novak and fell he didn't "give" the info to Novak, thus off the hook.

I also think Bolton is in the mix somehwere, since supposedly his area of "expertise" was WMD's as well --- and who knows - even Chalabi, her favorite buddy.

Since Miller's area supposedly was WMD's - she may have known Plame's ID and confirmed it with Rove and then leaked to Novak.

[Bumblebee]

11. The original story can be found at

http://www.radaronline.com/fresh-intelligence/2005/07/15/index.php#report_001810

[Cha]

25. Thanks, Bb..

There's novak looking like "The Daily Show" described him the other night.."seething at his lack of fresh puppy blood in his mini-fridge."

[Straight Shooter]

12. This makes it even worse for Rove, then, doesn't it?

In his position, if he knows Plame is a covert agent (which is apparently true since he confirmed it to Novak), then his position in the U.S. government absolutely dictates that he should not only prevent disclosing such information himself, but prevent such information from being disclosed by others. IOW, he should have said, "Robert, don't you dare print that. You will be exposing a very valuable agent and possibly endangering her and others."

He could have stopped this in its tracks but he gave Novak the all-clear by confirming it and not doing one damn thing to protect her. Petty, vicious, and treasonous.

[Bumblebee]

14. There will also, hopefully, be more pressure

on both Miller and NYT to come clean. Radar apparently tried with the latter:

Times spokesman Toby Usnik would only say, robotically, that “Ms. Miller learned about Valerie Plame from a confidential source or sources whose identity she continues to protect to this day.”

[kenny blankenship]

Yeah No SHIT! The NYTIMES HAS A LOT OF EXPLAINING TO DO

What are they doing with an agent provocateur on their staff?!?
They better make her spill it, and unless she does and there's a
a DAMN GOOD EXPLANATION that can account for her activities in a reasonable, and more or less innocent way (like a stupid mistake) SHE DAMN WELL BETTER NOT BE WORKING THERE ANYMORE. (assuming she somehow stays out of Federal prison)

[Cha]

26. How many reporters has the nyt

fired for unethical conduct(to put it euphemistically)?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

55. Remember the guy that wrote the so-called "authorized" book....

...on Jessica Lynch, which she later discredited? He was one of those fired by the NY Times for unethical conduct.

[seabeyond]

28. hence airforce one telephone records, as they fly over the skies

of africa, lol
hm
interesting

cheney?

[enigmatic]

15. bingo

If anything, this is a worst-case scenerio for Rove; he had the opportunity to say at least "no comment" to Novak, but not only confirmed it, did it out of malice.

He's toast.

[natrat]

36. if it does make it worse for kkkarl,all there stories change again tomorow

[girl gone mad]

13. I don't quite buy all of it.

I think someone has cooked up this convoluted cover story to throw us off of the trail of Rove/Libby/Bush/Cheney.

That's just my personal opinion based on observations on where a lot of this specific information has been originating as well as the timing of the release. Isn't it also very convenient to throw it back on Judy, since she isn't exactly talking right now?

I think Fitzgerald will be able to get to the bottom of it.

[yardwork]

38. There's a nasty whiff of "blaming the woman" to this story, imo

Judith Miller has a lot to answer for - she is culpable for writing all those NY Time stories peddling WH lies promoting our invasion of Iraq. But who decided to publish those stories on the front page of the Times day after day?

I don't believe that reporters - even scumbag right-wing "journalists" who don't deserve to be called that - initiated the outing of Valerie Plame.

Plame's identity was revealed as payback for Joe Wilson's contradicting W's lies about Iraq and uranium. The scheme originated in the WH, was carried out by the WH, and is now being covered up as fast as the WH can lie.

I for one won't take the bait. This story doesn't begin and end with Judith Miller or Robert Novak. They were willing (or unwilling - who knows?) pawns in the WH's game.

[AnnInLa]

43. O'Donnel's statement: "plot against Wilson"

"I don't believe that reporters - even scumbag right-wing "journalists" who don't deserve to be called that - initiated the outing of Valerie Plame.

Plame's identity was revealed as payback for Joe Wilson's contradicting W's lies about Iraq and uranium. The scheme originated in the WH, was carried out by the WH, and is now being covered up as fast as the WH can lie."


When O'Donnel was on Lou Dobbs today, he made reference to a statement from an independent judge who reviewed Fitz's info....the judge made the statement (it's in another thread here on DU) about "plot against Wilson"...and agreed that the investigation should proceed, and that the reporters should be forced to testify and be jailed if they refused, because the info was so important. Now, the "plot against Wilson" could have been originated with the Iraq Group, who filtered it down to Judy, who gave it up to novak. If so, this is a major-big conspiracy that could come to light.

[ChiDem]

16. Hmmm...

Rove told Miller, Miller told Novak, Novak called Rove to confirm.

Is this right ?

[Bumblebee]

17. Someone else probably told Miller

and it does all fit in. Novak was saying for weeks before it all blew up, how we will all be surprised about how it all originated and who he learned it from. One of the earlier WP articles strongly hinted of that -- and by early last week I was actually pretty convinced that it was Miller who told Novak and that she is covering her own ass in jail.

The spin is now about how it helps Rove -- bullshit; it hurts him. If someone in a role similar to his first spilled the beans to Novak, Rove would have not been THE LEAKER. But if it's Miller and he confirmed it -- he IS because he is the first official in a position to know to confirm it. Bingo! May be the best of all possible worlds with killing lots of birds of prey with one stone (let's hope!)

[Pirate Smile]

34. Good point, Bumblebee!

:thumbsup:

[BamaBecky]

We don't know who told Rove...but there was a FILE toted

around on Air Force One.........on Plame.....I think....please correct me if I'm in error on that fact......

Miller looks guilty

I don't think this is a ploy to throw us off..........

Bama

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. The way I see it, it doesn't matter who told Miller

If Rove confirmed it, then he is guilty of violating national security.

Sure, I would love to know how Miller found out, but Rove just looks guiltier and guiltier every day. And he doesn't even need to be connected to Miller to look guilty.

[nashville_brook]

24. yeah, everytime i see this Miller question come up, the plot gets

thicker... more indictments, more involvement, etc.

[RDANGELO]

19. my theory

For what its worth, I think Miller is Bush co's fire wall between Fitzgerald and the whitehouse. The orchestrator behind it all is Millers source. Fitz may be able to go around it through other sources and circumstantial evidence. Rove may be found guilty of perjury or obstruction of justice.

[alcibiades_mystery]

40. I'm guessing they've subpoened all Miller's phone and email records

From up to eight months before the leak. They should also get her credit card slips, check her scheduling, and do computer forensics on any portable and desktop units. Unless this was an "unscheduled" meeting in a public park or some such (classic espionage in that case) there should be something there. So far, though, their actions all look pretty sloppy, so I can't imagine they had the foresight to hide the meeting in which the leak took place to Miller - and even if they did, they'd first have to tell her to hide that info, which requires a previous meeting. Is Fitzie on the trail? Were they very very careful? Time will tell.

If they were careful, it might look like this. Somebody has Miller trailed or surveilled for a few days, then comes up to her on the street as she's walking (parking garage). She is told at that time and told that this is "super secret background" - no documentation, no follow up confirmation calls, etc. But at what point did she call Novak? Did she try to write a story that got nixed by the NY Times editors? When? They should be brought before federal prosecutors and asked to answer questions as to timeframe. Did Miller approach them with this story? If so, when? Etc. There's just too much on record work produce behind this level of journalism for it all to have disappeared - and even if it did disappear, that causes other stuff to appear (including a charge of obstruction). I don't think she can hide this, especially if Novak is singing, which seems fairly clear.

[AnnInLa]

20. One thing for SURE, if Novak ratted out everyone, he

will NEVER be trusted as a RW talking head again.....no one will trust him with anything...we are DONE with robert novak.

[Vincardog]

22. Amen to that nt

[A Brand New World]

35. NBC Nightly News showed a clip of Novak tonight in their story

that they did on Rehnquist not retiring. They showed Novak last week proclaiming that Rehnquist was sure to retire as soon as ** returned from Europe. I think the MSM will turn on Novak since he is now a definite confirmed scumbag.

[lovuian]

41. So who told Judith Miller??? Maybe Novak knows who she talk

to and told Fitzgerald and maybe there is emails and phone records proving it...

I do believe they had Novak and made him totally squeal!!!

[Imagevision]

44. Rove I would suspect told Miller-she tells Novak-Cooper was an option

now the merry-go-round begins to ---spin...!

[girl gone mad]

57. I think the story about Rehnquist resigning only existed to help Bush.

They tried to sell that notion in order to quell the fundie uproar on Gonzales's potential nomination.

Last week, while the media was still certain that his retirement was imminent, they played up the idea that Bush would be able to appease both moderates and extremists.

So, clearly Novak is still doing the bidding of the administration.

[Zorbuddha]

63. Novak sure has been stepping in his own shit, lately.

It seems fitting that he'll go out as one of the biggest rats in history.

[natrat]

37. they will just kill him like the rest

[nashville_brook]

21. it's been theorized for a while that miller was a source of plame's

identity b/c she could know it from her beat. i think it was even the subject of a thread that made "greatest."

can't you just see novak caving? he's not the kind of guy who would take the heat for anything.

but that doesn't get anyone off the hook. especially as regards the conspiracy (yes, conspiracy) to "fix" information leading to war.

[coldwatercyn]

27. Cheney

told Judith Miller. That's why she's in jail. She won't give him up.

Interesting.

[Singular73]

33. Yep

I agree.

[yardwork]

39. Miller may have real reason to be afraid of Cheney and the WH

The Bush Family really is a crime family.

[BillZBubb]

52. No way! Cheney had Libby or some other flunky leak it.

There is no way evil Dick left his fingerprints on this. He directed a toady to do it and nothing was written down.

Even so, Rover is still in trouble. He confirmed the story for Novak even though he tried to be clever about it. He should have said NO COMMENT and that's all. When he went beyond that, he committed a crime.

[rateyes]

29. I'll keep saying it...

if it's classified and you share it with someone that's not authorized to see it....even if you are not yourself authorized to have it...such as in the case of a reporter getting it from someone else...

if it's classified...and you share it..you are a SPY against the U.S., according to the Espionage act.

And, if you cover it up---knowing it was shared, without yourself seeing it---such as a man named Bush---you are guilty as well.

It's not about revealing Plame's identity--it's about showing a classified report revealing the name of Plame's "front" oil company...that's the crime---and, everyone who shared it---source to reporter....reporter to reporter.....reporter to VP----regardless of the direction it comes and goes-----it's treason.

And, if Fitzgerald proves it...you ain't seen nothing yet!

Edit to add: And, it matters not what the motivation behind it was, other than the fact that the American people are going to be pissed as hell when they WAKE UP, and finally realize we were LIED into a damned, illegal, immoral war.

[Tigress DEM]

46. Yes!! Yes!! The LEAK ITSELF is the problem... classified is classified!

Good Post!

:patriot:

:hi:

[rateyes]

59. This is what we need to keep harping on...

the leak of the classified material, not Plame's name. It's about the corruption of the whole damned administration compromising national security for the sake of this damned war--and, it might very well have gotten an undercover agent(s) killed--which, if it happened, not only makes them traitors, but also murderers.

This administration is full of a bunch of sick bastards.

[lovuian]

48. And may I add we are at War right now!!! so security should be

absolutely important!!!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

49. This also has to do with comproming National Security when Plame's....

...global network was publicly nullified. That network was tracking the materials that can be used to build WMDs. And without that group, the NeoCons had one less obstacle to keep them from going to war against Iraq.

That is a MAJOR issue, and I think Fitzgerald is also using this to build his case.

[annabanana]

56. Perhaps Plame's network was part of their "problem"

Maybe her people were in a position to be able to finger the BFEE trying to plant incriminating wmd materials in Iraq. At the time that was the ONE THING they wanted to "turn up", wasn't it?

Maybe the whole Wilson/Plame business was a twofer....

[rateyes]

60. Yeah, and even if the WMD that would have turned up

had American markings on them--so what, we were the ones, after all who sold the damned stuff to them when they were at war with Iran.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

64. It's like insider trading...

Even if somebody on the inside divulges the information to you, you're still guilty if you pass the information along to someone else.

[rateyes]

67. Exactly!!

[bejammin075]

32. GOP talking points dropping like flies

or getting stuck in fly paper??

[Imagevision]

42. You coudn't pay Miller to leave jail right now - she accomplished

what she set out to do. I hope she remains in jail for at least a year.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

47. Smells like another NeoCon cover story to lead people away....

...from thinking that Bush and Cheney had something to do with the Plame outing.

The more they lie, the worse it gets for them.

[many a good man]

50. Miller was firewall and fire hose

She was the main conduit for disseminating all the White House, WHIG, OSP, INC lies that built support for the war in the media. She had sensational exclusive after exclusive in the run up to the war. Find her feeders and you'll find everyone responsible for psy ops plans that made this war possible and you'll find everyone who is now trying to cover it all up.

I think Miller outed Plame to all the other reporters and had arranged ahead of time with WH officials who could confirm the story without "naming" Joe Wilson's wife. She never wrote a Plame story herself so she thinks she can slide away clean. Fitz isn't going to let her get away with it. He doesn't want THEM to get away with it either.

[sendero]

53. That would be..

... in accordance with what I've thought since DAY ONE. Everyone around here is going "why isn't Novak in trouble"?

The answer is obvious, he SANG LIKE A FUCKING CANARY.

And that is TOTALLY CONSISTENT with the kind of butthole he is.

[SoCalDem]

61. Of course the little vulture sang like a canary, and probably

DEVOURED the canary afterwards.. Novak has NO decency, sincerity or honor.

He's a washed up old hack who keeps hanging on because he's a NOBODY without his "job".. (maybe he needs the dental coverage.. chiclet-teeth are probably priced by the pound:)..)

[The Backlash Cometh]

62. Now we all know why Novak is not in jail...yet...

The fact that his two shows are closed out suggests that he's waiting for the other shoe to drop.

[goclark]

68. Is David Gregory his permanent replacement?

That would be too good to be true!
It makes me wonder if MSNBC is trying to save their butt having David Gregory pound the Rove Factor so that they can say, " See, we are always trying to be fair and balanced."

If not, they may be as guilty as NOVAK and should be placed in jail for allowing him to say those things on their station.

[Alien8ed]

65. "Who Told Judith"????

That question is back, up along this thread, a ways.

Upon such threads, in such places, many things can get tossed onto the table and then be overlooked.

The intelligent reporter, however, will follow that hound, because it is indeed tracking that fox.

The charitable reporter with intelligence to spare will purchase a one-way plane ticket for Judith, to return that non-colleague to her original, most beloved, and actual "source".

Which is where the girl belongs.

[the_spectator]

69. Good thread - but I wish it had "Judith Miller" in the title somewhere-

I really don't know what to think at this point about this whole thing, but if I had to make a prediction, I also think that signs point to Miller being central to all this. I'm leaning towards the idea that it was Miller who first spread the story amongst the other major known players (Novak, Rove, etc.).

So yes, the question is, "Who Told Judy"? It could be anyone. It could be (we can hope) Cheney, or it could be some low-level CIA person who must be one of many of Miller's regular sources which she would have in her particular beat as a reporter. This all could break big; BUT I still see scenarios in which it all fizzles out, Judy stays in jail until October, when the grand jury is set to wrap up, at which point she will be released (according to media reports.)

Also, I don't know if I buy what people are saying upthread about Rove being screwed either way. It's my impression that the law Fitzgerald is focusing on which makes it a crime to reveal the identity of a covert CIA operative only applies if the source of the leak is actually AUTHORIZED to know the identity of the operative. I don't think Rove was authorized in the way the law requires. The reason for this requirement in the law is simple: they wrote the law the way they did (very carefully to limit possible liability according to media reports) to ensure that someone outside of the national-security loop who discovered and then revealed the identity of a CIA operative would NOT face criminal charges, to protect freedom of speech, the press, etc. So that, for example, if you discover your neighbor is a covert CIA operative, and you reveal it to others, you are not liable. Or you reveal it because you are morally opposed to the CIA, you are not liable. As I see it, the only person liable in the situation at hand would be the as-yet unknown AUTHORIZED, in-the-loop person who first told Judy.

Please someone set me straight where I am wrong here -- I'm sure I am one way or another, as I have not followed this story as closely as some people.