Genesis of an American Gestapo - Must Read

[G2099]

<snip>

"The National Security Service, which is an autonomous, domestic spy-agency, signals a tectonic shift in the political landscape. The genesis of the Police State marks the end of American democracy; the final wooden stake to the heart of privacy, security and personal liberty."

<snip>

"On June 29 President Bush took the great-leap forward in transforming the nation’s intelligence services by ordering a restructuring of the FBI and putting “a broad swath of the agency” under the direct control of the executive."

<snip>

"The message to citizens is clear; all of the institutions upon which democratic societies depend (the executive, the Congress, the Judiciary, the media, the military, and law enforcement) have withered beneath the Bush onslaught and been reduced to rubble. The entire system has been corrupted from top to bottom. America is a gaunt, skeletal figure; rattling around in its cage, ready to be blown over by the first brisk wind. Democracy is dead."

continue here:
http://www.uruknet.info/?s1=1&p=13721&s2=16

[wli]

1. we already knew that

People have been calling things the "Homeland Offense Gestapo" from the inception of the "Homeland Security" Nazism.

At this point the debate as to what this all represents has wilted down to whether they're cryptofascists or overt fascists.

[vickitulsa]

2. It's hard to disagree with such a premise.

But I happen to think the United States, even its governmental structure and workings, are far hardier than some seem to believe. Yes, the last five years have seen persistent and to some degree successful attempts to overhaul the entire government of our great nation and render it a shadow of its former, more-decent-than-not self. However, it would take far more than even the current administration's attempts to truly unmake a system that has been steadily growing and strengthening for a couple of hundred years.

Yes, there have been bad times, scary times, times when one wonders how on earth it can last much longer given the nefarious schemes and blunders and deliberate efforts by some who have at times held tremendous power. But every time the fundamentals of our democratic republic for which our flag stands seem to emerge intact.

We have to remember that even if they weren't a clear majority, a huge number of our fellow Americans have been believing that W is the salvation of our nation, not an architect of its demise. I happen to believe this fact was based largely on the idea that W was, under it all, a decent and even righteous man who could relate to the "little guys out there" and who truly cared about his country and wanted it to be strong and true. It will take some time for those who have believed in him and supported his decisions to realize and then face the fact that they have been duped and used, lied to and misled and screwed by a team they had believed was actually GOOD for them and for the country.

But as with every similar downfall, the signs that present developments indicate such a fall is imminent are everywhere. At some point, it becomes futile for the GOP spokespeople to argue further, and they have to just sit back and watch all they've worked for be dismantled or just fall apart due to its own unbalanced weight.

And we who predicted something like this would eventually happen can rub it in, crow about our sentience, and grin ... OR we can keep opening up the can of worms to reveal the depths of the infection in our government to make sure the current wound isn't slathered with antibiotics and healed without serious damage being done to those who came so close to ruining a great nation.

I happen to agree with some who have said that serious damage to this administration's credibility, to W's own credibility and image, has already been done and cannot be undone. Let's not fall victim to the temptation to hit the rooftops with a megaphone to broadcast "I told you so" to those who have been used and abused by a group they have made the mistake of believing. Let's be the better people and be kind to even those who have not been kind to us... while not letting their mistakes and misdeeds go unpunished at the same time.

Then for once maybe a party of opposition won't make the same or similar mistakes to the ones made in our nation's history that simply tilt the scales the other way but don't really clean up all the corruption and muck. Let's get it right this time! By which I mean, let's not get shrill or let vengeful feelings turn us into bad guys just at the moment we have the chance to show we are the GOOD guys.

I smell opportunity rising out there. Let's be sure not to squander it!

:patriot:

[timtom]

3. I couldn't have said it any better!

An amazing post. It is soooo easy, once the danger is past, to slip back into self-absorption and fail to remain committed and vigilant. Look at the opportunities we've had before: McCarthy, Nixon, Reagan, * senior.

And, welcome to DU, vickitulsa. (In case it hasn't been said yet.)

[newyawker99]

5. Hi vickietulsa!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[wli]

6. exploitability

When a computer program has a bug in it that allows it to be subverted for a cracker to do what he wills with it or the computer it runs on, this bug is called an "exploit" and the program is said to be "exploitable."

This concept carries over to the Constitution. The electoral system is exploitable, and corporations have found still other exploits to use to subvert the government.

[burrowowl]

15. Don't bet your life on this!

If the corporate/fascist media will allow Bu$h's downfall, they have something up their sleeve.
Read: Kevin Phillips: Wealth and Deomocracy and Howard Zinn: A People's History of the United States.
And learn from people taking to the streets, e.g., Bolivia. People crushed, e.g., Central America.

[Peace Patriot]

19. Welcome to DU, Vickitulsa! It isn't over yet, so we don't yet face the

decision of whether to be magnanimous or not. But it's interesting that I was thinking today: We need a national TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION committee, like they did in South Africa--to heal the wounds of decades of "apartheid," and to provide forgiveness for those willing to admit their crimes. I've always thought that idea was brilliant! What an extraordinary thing for a society to do--not to seek vengeance and retribution, but to seek truth and forgiveness.

I think we also need to realize--and there is simply overwhelming evidence for this--that the majority of Americans are progressive, peaceful, tolerant, justice-loving, lawful, cooperative and generous, and that the Bushites DO NOT REPRESENT THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS.

I could rattle off an armload of statistics on this, but I will just cite one, my favorite: 63% of Americans oppose torture UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. That's the America I know and love--a people who are not easily scared and not easily fooled, and who stick to democratic principles and lawful procedures even in the face of non-stop fear-mongering.

Okay, I will cite one more: 58% of the American people opposed the Iraq war BEFORE THE INVASION! --that is, before all the lies got exposed. I will never forget that stat. (About half opposed the war outright, and half would only approve it if it were a UN operation.)

These people did not re-elect George Bush. Diebold and ES&S did so, with their secret, proprietary programming code in the electronic voting machines, owned and controlled by Bushites. So things are not right. They are very, very not right. This government never had "consent of the governed," and doesn't have it now.

It is not going to be easy to turn this around. The Bushites are desperate to keep control--because they are the filthiest crew who ever ran a government and they are guilty of terrible crimes. Their theft of the election is a measure of their desperation--as was their outing of CIA agent Valerie Plame. They have caused deaths (over 100,000 in Iraq alone), and have ordered deaths and torture; they have stolen billions and billions of dollars; they have run illicit WMDs around the world; and have stoked "terrorism" in others and have committed it themselves. They fear the ire of the American people--and the inevitability of justice--if they should ever lose control of the levers of power.

This is a very dangerous situation, and the crisis in our government is far from over.

And if we are able to restore democracy here, it is not going to be easy to learn from this experience and to create a better country from it.

But there is one thing that I learned on November 2, 2004, and that is to have faith in the people of this country. I saw what they did on that day. They rose up! They stood in ten hour lives to vote! They were determined to oust this bunch of liars and criminals. And I know that a whole bunch of Republicans were also voting to oust Bush. And all of our votes got stolen that day. We were disenfranchised--and that is not the fault of the voters, but of the political leaders who let it happen.

It is we, the people, however, who have to fix it. Our leaders are not going to. And it's very simple, really: Get rid of these Bushite election machine companies NOW! What business do they have counting all our votes in secret? That's ridiculous! Paper ballots/ hand counts, or, open source code machines with paper ballot backup, and strict auditing and security.

And we have to get this done at the state/local level, where the power over election systems still resides, and where ordinary people still have some say. The movement for honest, transparent elections is happening. Join up with whatever local group is working on it, and help out. It's a peoples' movement. It's real. And it's the only way that we can recover our right to vote, and restore order in this land.

Then...THEN we can decide about magnanimity, when this nutcase rightwing minority that is destroying our country, and threatening worldwide holocaust, has been removed from power. I am wholeheartedly in favor of Truth and Reconciliation, once democracy has been restored.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

34. Right on!

I attended my first forum today. Thom Hartman and Paul Lehto spoke in Portland.

Mr. Lehto (during Q & A, What grassroots efforts do you see going on in Seattle?) said...
"Right now, in Seattle, hundreds of people are attending a memorial for one amazing grass-roots activist, Andy Stephenson, who passed last week. That tells you something." (my apologies to Mr. Lehto, I'm paraphrasing from memory. )

[saigon68]

20. "BRING EM ON" shouted the AWOL CHIMPANZEE

[no_to_war_economy]

4. it is so very necessary

we MUST protect the mutherland!

[LibertyorDeath]

7. Thanks & Rec more people need to know this

Tyranny has very few indispensable parts; a compliant media, that will regulate information to meet the goals of the state; a “rubber-stamp” Parliament that will endorse the policies of the supreme leader; a judiciary that will adjust the law to serve the requirements of the ruling body, a strong military to seize the wealth of weaker nations; and a security apparatus, that will eliminate any domestic threats to the system.

On June 29 President Bush took the great-leap forward in transforming the nation’s intelligence services by ordering a restructuring of the FBI and putting “a broad swath of the agency” under the direct control of the executive.

http://www.uruknet.info/?s1=1&p=13721&s2=16

[G2099]

8. Thanks for the recommendation

[cyberpj]

52. Deja vu - seen this?

Just saw Robert Greenwald's STEAL THIS MOVIE about Abbie Hoffman. HBO-Signature channel has been showing it and my Tivo caught it but I checked, and it's also available on Netflix.

I highly recommend it! It's a great reminder of just how similar our Iraq situation is to the Vietnam era, reinforces the extent to which Presidents using CIA and FBI will go to extinguish dissent, has good music, good actors and a good message to today's youth at the end - and is just a darn good movie.

Vincent D'Onofrio .... Abbie Hoffman
Janeane Garofalo .... Anita Hoffman
Jeanne Tripplehorn .... Johanna Lawrenson
Kevin Pollak .... Gerry Lefcourt
Donal Logue .... Stew Albert
Kevin Corrigan .... Jerry Rubin

You may remember Robert Greenwald's other efforts such as:
Unconstitutional (2004) aka Unconstitutional: The War on Our Civil Liberties
Plain Truth (2004)
Uncovered: The War on Iraq (2004)
Outfoxed: Rupert Murdoch's War on Journalism
The Crooked E: The Unshredded Truth About Enron (2003)
Uncovered: The Whole Truth About the Iraq War (2003)
Unprecedented: The 2000 Presidential Election (2002)

He's also now working on The Walmart Movie
http://www.walmartmovie.com/index.php

One review:
Steal This Movie is an engaging and illuminating trip into the not so distant past and the stormy life of a generation brave enough to question their government and fight for their Constitutional rights. As Abbie put it eloquently, poignantly, and sadly in some of his speeches after remerging from his underground exile: "We stopped a war." Whatever one might think of him and his sometimes bizarre methods of protest, he did indeed lead a movement that led to the end of the Vietnam conflict.

http://www.cinemasense.com/Reviews/steal_this_movie.htm

[geek tragedy]

9. The authors should know about oppression--that website

is a Baathist, pro-Saddam front.

These people make Bush fans look like Freedom Marchers.

[G2099]

10. Are you saying that "Mike Whitney" is a, pro-Saddam, Baathist?

[geek tragedy]

24. No, just that website, which is run by fascists.

http://www.uruknet.info/?p=9817

[bloom]

11. "that website is a Baathist, pro-Saddam front."

I think it's sounding like you don't like anything left of center or something.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

12. you got that right

[geek tragedy]

25. I know exactly what's left of center. Baathists and other fascists

are NOT left of center.

http://www.uruknet.info/?p=9817

[bloom]

30. If anything - what I have seen on that site is the opposite of fascism...

I'll keep in mind the pro-Baathist postings if/when I visit.

[geek tragedy]

31. You didn't see this then:

http://www.uruknet.info/?p=9817

Try doing a site search for "Saddam" on that site. Every article mentioning Saddam praises him or defends his record.

Try this search: They don't try to hide the fact that they're Baathist scum.

http://www.google.com/search?as_q=&num=10&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=&as_oq=baathist+baath&as_eq=&lr=lang_en&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=uruknet.info&safe=off

I wouldn't piss on the people running that site if they were on fire.

[bloom]

33. Ok

Well the opposite of American style fascism is all, then.

I don't support the Saddam style, either. Although from what I hear - most Iraqis would gladly go back to what they had over what they now have.

[geek tragedy]

35. There are no "opposites" in fascism imo--the Baathists and the

proto-fascists here are essentially the same ideology. They just play for different teams.

From what I've heard and seen., Iraqis want us and the Baathists and the foreign jihadis to just go the fuck away. In fact, I suspect that if US troops left Iraqis would united in their hatred of the Baathists and foreign jihadis.

[bloom]

44. Bush, A Baathist Supporter?

Created by Anthony J. Pierce on 5/2/04 at 2:19 PM

Bush, A Baathist Supporter?
By Anthony J. Pierce, Political Exorcist

A ‘jubilant’ celebratory roar was heard throughout Falluja this weekend. Citizens learned the U.S. Marines were withdrawing.

But in his weekly radio address knowing the Marines would be withdrawing from Falluja and over the weekend, Bush said, “Life for the Iraqi people is a world away from the cruelty and corruption of Saddam's regime,” And being this nation’s Commander-in-Chief he also knew replacing his much vaunted Marines would be “murderous” Saddam Baathists, the very villains causing ‘regime change....’

http://news.forum.publicradio.org/article.pl?sid=04/05/02/1427233
----

Bush and Kerry Share a Problem

By DAVE LINDORFF

...First look at Bush. Confronted with the very real risk of losing the war in Iraq before the November election, he has in desperation turned for help to a bunch of Saddam Hussein's own top military brass. The U.S. did the same thing with key Nazi's from Germany's secret police and its military scientists, but this was done secretly, only coming to light years later. Bush has had to hire his Baathist villains in public, and now has to hope that the project won't so poison public attitudes in Iraq towards the occupation that the whole country turns on us and boots us out.

http://counterpunch.org/lindorff04202004.html

------

Maybe the Bushists and the Baathists are all one and the same fascists. :shrug:

Though you wouldn't get from Uruknet.info that they are supporting Bushist fascism. So maybe not.

You're not trying to argue that the Bushists aren't fascist are you?

[geek tragedy]

46. I use the term "proto-fascists." They don't have the institutional

dominance or explicit fascist ideology quite yet, but they're clearly on the way.

[bloom]

48. Most are not as open about it as Ledeen...

but that doesn't mean anything to me. I think the neo-cons are proud of their fascism.

"...Michael Ledeen, leading neocon theoretician, expert on Machiavelli, holder of the Freedom Chair at the American Enterprise Institute, regular columnist for National Review—and the principal cheerleader today for an extension of the war on terror to include regime change in Iran.<>

Ledeen criticizes Mussolini precisely for not being revolutionary enough. “He never had enough confidence in the Italian people to permit them a genuine participation in fascism.” Ledeen therefore concurs with the fascist intellectual, Camillo Pellizi, who argues—in a book Ledeen calls “a moving and fundamental work”—that Mussolini’s was “a failed revolution.” Pellizzi had hoped that “the new era was to be the era of youthful genius and creativity”: for him, Ledeen says, the fascist state was “a generator of energy and creativity.” The purest ideologues of fascism, in other words, wanted something very similar to that which Ledeen himself wants now, namely a “worldwide mass movement” enabling the peoples of the world, “liberated” by American militarism, to participate in the “greatest experiment in human freedom.” Ledeen wrote in 1996, “The people yearn for the real thing—revolution.”

http://www.amconmag.com/06_30_03/feature.html

[geek tragedy]

49. Michael Ledeen is an extremist, even amongst that crowd.

He'd have been right at home serving alongside Tariq Aziz and Chemical Ali.

[bloom]

50. Whether he is more extreme - but they like to listen to him

or if some of them are equally or more extreme - does not really matter. Our country is following an extremist path.

“Ledeen’s ideas are repeated daily by such figures as Richard Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz…He basically believes that violence in the service of the spread of democracy is America’s manifest destiny. Consequently, he has become the philosophical legitimator of the American occupation of Iraq.”

In fact, Ledeen’s influence goes even further. The BBC, the Washington Post and Jim Lobe writing for the Asia Times report that Michael Ledeen is the only full-time international affairs analyst consulted by Karl Rove. Ledeen has regular conversations with Rove. The Washington Post said, "More than once, Ledeen has seen his ideas faxed to Rove, become official policy or rhetoric.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3037473

[Kathy in Cambridge]

14. Proof please? It's an Italian website often used by legitimate folks as

reference.

Yes, Michele Malkin and other wingnuts tried to shut it down:

http://newdirection.dailykos.com/story/2005/6/20/21516/5221

nice try, though.

[geek tragedy]

27. No, it's run by supporters of Saddam and his fascist movement.

http://www.uruknet.info/?p=9817

And don't forget their series of articles on "Saddam, the fighter, the thinker, the man."

http://www.uruknet.info/?p=9103

The site is littered with apologia and praise for a fascist dictator.

[bloom]

45. That is good list of sites...

1. Uruknet.info
www.uruknet.info - www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq -

3. Los Angeles Times: After the War
www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/iraq -

4. New York Times: A Nation at War
www.nytimes.com/pages/world/worldspecial/index.html -

5. Kevin Sites Blog
www.kevinsites.net -

6. Electronic Iraq
electroniciraq.net -

7. Iraqi News
www.iraqinews.com -

8. Iraq Today
www.iraq-today.com -

9. BBC News: Iraq in Transition
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/middle_east/2002/conflict_... -

[not systems]

17. Just interested. What was your source of this information?

Examination of it's contents?

Or some third site?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

22. my guess is some third site

see my link to dailykos above.

[geek tragedy]

23. Every single article about Saddam on that website praises and/or

defends his record.

http://www.uruknet.info/?p=9817

http://www.uruknet.info/?hd=0&p=m11200&l=x

[Swamp Rat]

18. Ja mein Freund!

Kommst du heute abend heraus? :D

[geek tragedy]

26. Truth hurts, huh?

http://www.uruknet.info/?p=9817

[Swamp Rat]

39. HAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!! The "TRUTH!" HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

Won't be long... HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! :rofl:

[geek tragedy]

41. Yep. It's hard to read the below site search and conclude otherwise.

http://www.google.com/search?as_q=&num=10&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=&as_oq=baathist+baath&as_eq=&lr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=uruknet.info&safe=off

First ten hits:

1. Baath party statement: http://www.uruknet.info/?p=8027

2. Baath Party statement: http://www.uruknet.info/?p=9817

3. Baath Party statement: http://www.uruknet.info/?p=2860

4. Baath Party statement: http://www.uruknet.info/?p=7402

5. Baath Party Statement: http://www.uruknet.info/?s1=1&p=13408&s2=06

6. Puff piece interview with Baathist insurgent: http://www.uruknet.info/?p=6714&hd=0&size=1&l=x

7. Puff piece on Baath party that describes Saddam as the legitimate ruler of Iraq (dated 4-20-05): http://www.uruknet.info/?hd=0&p=m11200&l=x

8. Knight-Ridder story "Baath Party Back in Business": http://www.uruknet.info/?p=5389

9. Baath Party Statement: http://www.uruknet.info/?s1=1&p=7263&s2=17

10. Baath Party Statement: http://www.uruknet.info/?s1=1&p=7402&s2=20

Not anti-war or anti-Bush, just anti-American and the enemy.

[Swamp Rat]

42. “Truth hurts” ... OWOWOW!!!

Yep, sure is “hard work!” :rofl:

First hit:

1. Amerikan Pravda statements: http://www.foxnews.com/

2. Oxymoron statements: http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/today.guest.html

3. Moon “GOP Messiah” statements: http://www.washingtontimes.com/

4. Fascist party doll statements: http://www.anncoulter.com/

5. “Token black” statements: http://www.renewamerica.us/

6. Amerikan Brown Shirt statements: http://www.freerepublic.com/home.htm

7. “Skool of Rudolph Hess” statements: http://www.hannity.com/

8. Log Cabin statements: http://www.drudgereport.com/

9. More Amerikan Pravda statements: http://www.newsmax.com/

10. Even more More Amerikan Pravda statements: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/

11. Yet, even more Amerikan Pravda statements: http://www.cnsnews.com/

12. A good place to find fascist logos or the nearest David Duke rally, if one is a "white American": http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=141878

13. Don’t forget our leader... “You must OBEY!”: http://www.whitehouse.gov/president/gwbbio.html

[geek tragedy]

47. What's your point? Opposition to Baathists and opposition to Bushists

are supported by the same set of principles.

Or do you believe that a person is either with Bush or with the Baathists?

[bpilgrim]

28. you could say that about more than half the world now

probably.

Thank GORE he 'invented' the INTERNETs :bounce:

psst... pass the word ;->

peace

[geek tragedy]

32. The great majority of the world doesn't belong to the Baathist party

or support Saddam.

[bpilgrim]

36. they also stand in opposition to our fascist policies

is what i meant.

fyi: you don't have to be a baathist or a fascist for that matter to recognize our police state or our fascist policies but it probably helps with the details :evilgrin:

peace

[geek tragedy]

37. Exactly my point--the Baathists know this stuff like the back of their

hand.

Peace.

[bloom]

13. Harry S. Truman...

"I never would have agreed to the formulation of the Central Intelligence Agency back in '47, if I had known it would become the American Gestapo."

Harry S. Truman, 33rd President, 1961 source

[alittlelark]

16. The American people are waking up from their sheeple slumber

quite rapidly. I have faith that WE THE PEOPLE will take care of the little tyrant.

[vickitulsa]

21. Wow, I just found this thread again

after getting side-tracked onto later ones posted. Returned to find some astonishingly astute followups, and I'm appreciative and impressed!

First, thanks for the welcomes -- yes, they are worth offering. I've deliberately refrained from participating in forums or groups discussing (1) Vietnam, (2) politics, or (3) current events for the last couple of years after getting embroiled in some upsetting, distressing developments that just left me shaken not stirred. I found my beloved Namvets online in 1997 after seeking them out and realizing they were very hard to find for a couple of decades. Dropped a note to a couple of them via their superb Websites and was directed to some groups where "my" vets congregated and talked over the war and other issues. Started at VWAR-L and went from there. Firetalk vet rooms were fantastic till that avenue shut down (it was free and how long can that last?).

But so many of the vet groups turned into freefire zones in a heartbeat when someone's PTSD set off someone else's PTSD, and I hadn't yet grown a thick enough skin to handle it. Didn't like the way I had to steady myself, put on a flak jacket and go over the top just to talk with these guys and tell 'em how much I had missed 'em and how constantly I had supported them even when I couldn't find them.

I migrated slowly through probably 10 or more vet groups or forums, made some friendsforlife with whom I'm still in touch privately, but finally opted out of the daily discussions there. Tried unsuccessfully to find a good current events/political discussion forum and was turned off by what was out there. Even here in the last 48 hours I've seen way too many "fucks" for my total comfort ... not that I can't handle the word in all its uses, but those who rely on it extensively often don't have much of substance to say, or are handicapped in their ability to express themselves in intelligent discourse. ;)

But I've not done much else in the last couple of days but allow myself to be drawn into the threads at DU ... and I have to say I'm well pleased with this discovery so far! :applause: You guys are well organized, which means you must be well moderated. I tend to think the best moderators are those who need seldom be heard from in order to be effective, though their continued participation is certainly welcome. Hey, I never wanted the job even though several of my groups tried to give it to me. But I so much appreciate those who are willing to serve in this way and am impressed when I see the results of a job well done in that respect.

I'm also happily surprised (because of past experience in political/current events groups) by the smarts and overall quality of those who've posted on this thread, from the initial post right on through, and on other threads I'm reading as well.

Saigon68, you sound like a lot of the guys I feel right at home with, and Welcome Home from me to you, bud. :hug:

Peace Pat -- absolutely loved your post. I could listen to such sagacious ponderings all day! And definitely will put some of your suggestions into practice. I do know it isn't all over, but I remember the Watergate years so well, recall how Nixon was re-elected easily but only months later was history. Once something BIG starts to go wrong and the rats start deserting the ship (have we seen that yet?), it can be a fast ride out the door! Well, I can HOPE, can't I? ;)

Swampy, my maiden surname (was I ever a maiden??) was Hellwege. I don't go anywhere in the evenings without at least a small arms escort except for the brightest, clearest of pathways. Learnt my lesson, I did!

LorD, bloom, Kathy in Cambridge, lark, alla the rest o' ya's, I really paid attention to what everyone had to say. Checked out the Italian Iraq news site, too ... I love it when I can be directed by sharp people to other sharp people's work. One of my favorite sites for Iraq news early on in the occupation was Healing Iraq. It's a blog by a Baghdad dentist and very enlightening to read from the git-go; but he is unable to post regularly and takes business trips to Basri and the like, so it's not like a site you can check daily or even weekly for news from the Baghdad burbs. But man oh man has he had some great blogs! I remember the day he stepped outside his front door in the morning, just minutes after he'd seen his grade school daughter off down the sidewalk going to school, and a full scale attack of those we now call "insurgents" (whether they are or not) happened right in his street, almost in front of his house! He managed to get his daughter back inside and the bad guys' fighting was limited to a few individuals and was over fairly quickly, so Zeyad and his daughter were safe. But wow, what a nerve-wracking life that must be! He's still there, you can check him out at http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/

Okay, that's enough for one time this time :) Will be sure to keep reading the threads I've checked into already because getting the feedback and seeing how a discussion develops is a huge part of the enjoyment in forums.

Just wanted to let ya'll know I think yer great. :blush:

[bpilgrim]

29. welcome to DU

and thanks for the intro, good read... i can tell you're gonna love it here and we're gonna love hearing more from you :toast:

(former BM3)

peace

[Viva_La_Revolution]

38. Welcome! But be carefull....

DU is highly addictive! :P

Seriously, I have been trolling the web chat rooms since 14baud was 'fast' and never in that time have I found a forum with so many "sharp people".

edited: spelling. geesh.

[Swamp Rat]

40. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[BeHereNow]

43. Great Web Site- Thanks for posting

I went to the home page and looked at
some of the articles there. Great stuff.
Thanks for turning us on to it.
I've never seen that site before.
Bookmarked-
BHN

[Stand and Fight]

51. I cannot recommend this, but I can kick it! n/t

:kick: