Where are they now? The militia groups... remember them?

[kitkat65]

In the 90s, they were deemed as the United States' enemy within and were, in their way, related to the OK City bombing (domestic terrorism). They were very anti government and the OK bombing was Leveigh's (sp?) payback for Waco and Ruby Ridge. Militia groups saw Waco and Ruby Ridge as proof that the government was becoming too powerful but was the main beef about invasion of privacy or religious freedom? Or both?

We hear nothing about them now. And the reason I keep thinking about them is because when I look at the really right wing discussion groups (the freeps) it seems almost to be that same mindset, not overtly but underneath the surface.

So now that the government is republican dominated and supposedly right wing, there's no talk of them or from them. Why?

Did they decide that the having Republicans in power was the answer to their worries and just decided to disband or are they still around doing their thing very quietly?

What could these people possibly think of the antics of the government now? The recent Supreme Court ruling has screwed the average citizen of property rights and the Homeland Security act has decimated the right to privacy and illegal search and seizure.

I don't know. I just wondered if aonyone out there had any ideas, thoughts, or comments.

[solinvictus]

1. I think they've decided to lay low.

But, honestly, I believe it was also a fad among many who were disatisfied with the government in general to join them and form them. There are some, in Michigan I think, that really honest to God train in the field. I'm certain many, though, are a bunch of fat guys with SKS's assigning themselves ranks and titles.

[SoCalDem]

2. They are probably a bit afraid to answer the following questions.

1. Since you are so well armed, and proficient with weapons, why are you not signing up to go fight a real war in Iraq?

2. see no.1.:)

[napi21]

3. I don't know. It's an interesting question though.

I never got the impression they were partisan, just anti Gov't anything! I would think if they were pi**ed about Gov't intrusion in their affairs in the past, they'd be LIVID now!

I would be interested to find out where they are and what they're up to.

[gumby]

9. Maybe you answered your own question.

The people who Hated the Government then, DON'T hate it now. They are NOT LIVID.

That says to me, that they are indeed extremely partisan. The question is, why did they hate Clinton and now luv Bush? The supposed "principles" they hated Clinton for are being imposed upon them a hundred fold by Bush. Now, they just love, love, love those exact same things they hated in the past because Bush is doing it.

It seems to be some kind of psychological mind zap. Go figure.

[kitkat65]

12. So it a religious thing then? Koresh was a nutjob but a Christian.

And, I'm fuzzy on Ruby Ridge but wasn't that an illegal gun selling thing that the government decided to get them on?

Are the militias really "christian soldiers" disguising themselves as patriots?

Ever read The Handmaid's Tale?

[Mythsaje]

15. From what I understand

the government agents had been trying to get the guy for some time and finally set up a confidential informant to talk the guy into modifying a shotgun (sawing down the barrel--a modification he didn't want to do in the first place) which he did, though he only cut it down 1/2 an inch below the legal limit.

Then they went up to serve the warrant, shot his kid's dog without first identifying themselves, then shot the kid when he opened fire on him, then shot his wife while she was standing in the doorway of the cabin with their baby in her arms.

The guy was a survivalist who just wanted to be left alone out there in the boonies with his family. According to the things I'VE seen.

The whole thing happened on Bush 41's watch, however, which SOME of the people I discussed it with were quite willing to admit.

[kitkat65]

19. I saw a documentary about Waco on HBO which absolutely disgusted me

That the authorities were firing at and burning women and children is absolutely apalling to me and then they tried to cover it up. And, that happened on Clinton's watch.

[Mythsaje]

21. Waco was a problem.

I think Koresh and his commune was a pressure cooker that was eventually going to explode anyway...figuratively speaking, of course. It's been made pretty clear that Koresh himself was doing some pretty horrible things, and amassing a considerable amount of weapons and ammo for whatever reason.

Now it's easy to believe that the ATF and FBI went WAY too far trying to root them out...it would have been easier to snag Koresh on one of his occasional trips to town than pry him out of his compound...then they could have sat back and waited for the inevitable shattering of the cult's fortitude.

The problem with these Federal agencies like the ATF, FBI, and the DEA is that they are capable of exercising one HELL of a lot of authority and will often get involved in pissing contests with local authorities and go overboard trying to prove they've got the bigger dick.

I think that's part of what happened at Waco AND at Ruby Ridge. It wasn't a matter of one administration or another, it was the culture behind the Federal law enforcement community.

[kitkat65]

26. Agree with you Koresh was a danger and a pervert

I was only mentioning Clinton because you mentioned the first Bush and I was just thinking that poor judgement from feds occurred during both administrations.

It seems the militia groups are all over the place as far as their focus of ideologies are concerned from the Nazis hate groups to anti government to anti United Nations.

It seems a lot of arrests were made after Oklahoma but I found this to be interesting from the unitedstatesaction.com site mentioned here:

Aryan Microbiologist: LarryWayne Harris, 48

A bearded microbiologist from Dublin, Ohio, Larry Wayne Harris once spent his days testing food and water for contaminants — and cooking up some of the more paranoid fantasies to engage the minds of the Patriot movement. In 1995, Harris ordered three vials of freeze-dried Yersinia Pestis, better known as bubonic plague. After federal agents raided his home — finding the plague vials, many weapons and a certificate identifying Harris as a lieutenant in the neo-Nazi Aryan Nations — he insisted he was no terrorist. On the contrary, Harris said, he was deeply concerned about an "invasion from Iraq of super-germ-carrying rats." Elsewhere, he said Iraqi terrorist women planned to smuggle deadly toxins into the United States in their vaginas. Harris wrote Bacteriological Warfare: A Major Threat to North America, a book that he said gave Americans the weapons to fight back — but which also could be read as a bio-terrorist’s how-to manual. On probation for lying in order to get the plague vials, Harris got into trouble again in 1998 when an informant told the FBI Harris boasted of having enough anthrax to "wipe out" a city. But it turned out he merely had legal anthrax vaccine. In the end, Harris’ doings convinced the Congress to pass laws making it harder to obtain deadly pathogens like bubonic plague.

[solinvictus]

27. Koresh was an FFL holder authorized to sell Class 3's.

Koresh had a dealer's license to possess the guns at the Branch Davidian compound. It was also commonly known that he went into town weekly to listen to music at a few local spots in Waco. The Feds overplayed their hand on this case and wound up burning a bunch of innocents all to get that nutjob.

[Mythsaje]

28. Yep...

a pissing contest trying to prove something to the locals, is my bet. I've talked to a few cops and they've all said that this is pretty typical Fed behavior.

[Lefty48197]

36. Koresh ignited flammable fuels inside the compound

Lemme guess... that's Janet Reno's fault, right?

[Lefty48197]

35. Randy Weaver was a KKK member

and if his kid had pointed a gun at ME, then he'd be every bit as dead as he is now.

[Mythsaje]

45. Being a KKK member,

while disgusting, isn't illegal. And if you're trespassing and shoot someone because they point a gun at you (well within their rights) YOU are the criminal.

[Dave Reynolds]

4. The leader of the Michigan militia

has decided to pack it in and head for Alaska.

May he have frosted balls.

[gumby]

5. Check out David Neiwert

at http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/ He has been studying and writing about right-wing movements for a long time.

I think the 'militias' have gone 'main-stream.' I particularly think the 'eliminationist' rhetoric is in full-tilt-boogie.

[Lindsay]

6. They're still around.

Check out the Southern Poverty Law Center http://www.splcenter.org/. They're tops in the subject.

http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/ is a good blog on the topic; he tracks hate groups and hate crimes. He's a good writer, too.

I read somewhere, though, that the groups at the top of the FBI's list of homegrown threats tend to be liberal grooups, like the American Friends Service Committee. Don't have a link for that little factoid, though.

[MisterP]

10. heck, the Minutemen vigilantes were called "agents," so it's no surprise

that the FBI SAID that even though the militias and Rudolphs actually KILL PEOPLE, it's the ALF and ELF that we need to tremble about. While EF! activists nearly getting killed means that THEY get arrested, terrorists get applauded and wished well when moved from well-fed wilderness to cushy jail to cushy jail.

[wli]

14. The FBI is profiling Quakers?

They aren't even liberal, just pacifist.

[delete_bush]

7. funny, isn't it?

I was thinking the same several weeks ago. In their time, although I'm sure they had conservative leanings, I saw them as somewhat apolitical in that they would have had problems with the gov't regardless of the admin. In fact they started gaining notoriety under Bush 41.

Perhaps they all went into hi-tech in the 90's and are now writing LTE's complaining about outsourcing?

[dweller]

8. Re-stocking...

it's been awhile since Y2K...air freshener and ammo, beans and bombs, water and WMD's, etc.

just the essentials.
dp

[opihimoimoi]

11. It just might be they are EMBARRASSED as HELL...re BUSH and his antics

Blunders/counter productive policies/

They know they got HAD and are flummoxed as what to do....Afraid to taste crow....they have developed a strange case of....muteness.....

[Mythsaje]

16. Some of these groups

were Libertarian based...the 'go away and leave us the fuck alone' mentality. They hate the neo-cons as much as we do.

[Lefty48197]

37. The nazis, skinheads, and the militia ARE the Republican party

.

[Mythsaje]

13. Waco was wacko

but I can kinda see their point about Ruby Ridge. The feds were pretty heavy-handed there. Of course, if one looks back, that wasn't Clinton's game...it was Bush 41 presiding over that bunch of nonsense.

[sam sarrha]

23. waco was not a Militia.. David had a Messiah event in Israel..and went nuts

the Israelis actually have mental health teams at the Jesus Sites.. that take the people who have altered states and think they are the Masiah..or god.. they have a mental health facility that cares for them till they can be taken away by family or the State Department.

David was a Nut Case that was having sex with children, breeding god into them and Clinton's nut case attorney general, who also F*cked up and created the Witch hunts at the daycare centers in Florida.. and ruined propels reputations lives and put Innocent people in jail.. i think one Innocent man is still in jail there.. totally F*cked up that situation ....too.

Ruby ridge was where the feds wanted this poor sap with a CRAZY wife into a Fundie Cult to turn in his neighbors and framed him.. to pressure him to give names.. but that wold have gotten him killed.. that whole scene was his crazy wife thinking the cops were the agents of Satan come to bring on Armageddon and the end times.. some group like the Soldiers of Christ or Gods Army or something nuts..

[Mythsaje]

24. Yeah, it smacked of a set-up...

So what if the guy's wife was nutso...all he wanted was to be left alone.

[sam sarrha]

25. she was PARANOID and caused the situation, he was trying to make a living

in the Far DEEP woods.. they were starving because she moved out to where they would be safe with her cult friends when the world ended..

he was having to steal from his neighbors to feed his family.

[Mythsaje]

29. Damn!

A great example of how people in this country don't get the mental health assistance they need.

[sam sarrha]

32. she was shot in the head and killed while nursing her baby by FBI Sniper

standing in a doorway

[Mythsaje]

33. I know...

One of the things that REALLY set me off about the whole affair.

[sam sarrha]

17. they hate bush, they are laying low, they will only take care of buisness

locally.. they dont have international or national goals, they just want to take care of their area when Bush F*cks up everything and the economy, ... when civilation as we know it disolves the power will go local

I see bumper stickers that say... "will work for AMMO..!!!"

[madeline_con]

18. "Where are they now?"

I can't vouch for the intentions, political motivations or personal beliefs of these sites or those who wrote these articles. It's only a jumping off point for info about these groups. :)

10 years after Oklahoma City bombing, radical right still a threat
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/article.php?sid=20764

HOMEGROWN RAGE: Ten years after Oklahoma City, anti-government and hate groups are weaker — but testing new tools

April 10, 2005
BY JUDY L. THOMAS
KNIGHT RIDDER NEWSPAPERS

http://www.freep.com/voices/sunday/ehate10e_20050410.htm

Anti-Government US "Patriot Groups"
The Rise and Decline of the Patriots
Southern Poverty Law Center Intelligence Report
http://www.unitedstatesaction.com/anti-govt-patriot-groups.htm

[cynatnite]

20. I figured they didn't want to be seen

After the spotlight got laid on them after the Murrow building in OKC it seemed like they did not want to be associated with or even resemble anything close to McVeigh and Nichols.

[Zorra]

22. They are still trying to figure out which half of their membership are FBI

agents and which half are real militia.

[solinvictus]

30. Here's the Michigan Militia..

http://www.michiganmilitia.com/
They seem mostly of a libertarian/individual rights bend to me.

[Mythsaje]

31. That fits what I've heard...

makes it real likely they're no more fond of Bushco than they were of Clinton's WH.

[Lefty48197]

38. PUHLEEEEZE

Please stop apologizing for the right wing NRA nuts. They are hardcore supporters of the Republican party, yet you keep denying that obvious truth.

[K-W]

40. You are mistaking your oversimplification for the obvious truth.

Just because its mentally easier for you to lump militia men in with right wingers doesnt make it so.

They are not hardcore supporters of the republican party. They are anti government.

[Mythsaje]

46. Not all of them...

SOME of them. The Libertarians have been shouting about the abuse of power in this administration since the beginning.

Of course, no one listens to them...

Edited to add last line.

[Lefty48197]

34. They call themselves "the NRA" now.

They're no longer an overt nazi movement, they're now an underground nazi movement.

[Finder]

39. They are on free republic.

They are still around but many groups have been broken apart due to their leadership dying (William Pierce--author of the "Turner Diaries") and many of them in jail or fugitives connected with terrorism. William Krar for WMD for example. Although the media does not focus on christian terrorists they are being prosecuted slowly but surely.

Ironically, many are also big Bush supporters and were grassroots activists in the 2004 election cycle.

[Cocoa]

41. they're on the Mexican border

and calling C-span about immigration issues, and listening to Michael Savage attack Bush from the Right.

[KG]

42. you'd think the PATRIOT act would be an affont to much of what

they supposedly stood for, but it looks like they were just full of shit.

[Must_B_Free]

43. WIth the fostering of Christian Zionism,

and the selling of the idea that Jewish Zionism was a necessary pre-cursor from the standpoint of doctrinal prophecy, they all converted to Christian Zionists and thus are the proponants of the Neocon Agenda.

[carpetbagger]

44. We've got a huge problem about two hours NW of here.

Eldorado, Texas is the home to dissident, polygamous Mormons, hundreds or more of them, who live in a rather large compound. Their leader sometimes kicks 14-year old boys out, ordering their parents to abandon them on the side of the road.

In other militia news, Eric Rudolph got manna from heaven in the form of a plea offer that spares him the death penalty. I guess the death penalty is for terrorists who don't invoke Christianity as their motive.

Some of the militia goals have become politically mainstream. The rise of a bullying, politically powerful Christian movement has also provided a place for many of them, as has the "war on terror", and specifically the "patriotic response".