Maybe London Bombers Weren't Supposed to be Suicides

[chaz4jazz]

I had a thought. Police found papers belonging to the suicide bombers near their seats on several of the trains - I guess it was pieces of their wallets and contents. Now, if they had planned to be suicide bombers, would they have walked into the kill zone with wallets? My theory: They were TOLD that they could set their "timers" by hand that they would have "five minutes(?)" to get off the train at the next stop and disappear into the London crowds. They then, believing this to be the case, reached into their backpacks and thought they were setting timers when what they were doing was instantly detonating their bombs - thereby becoming de facto suicides - and not being living witnesses to the planning.

One eye-witness on the bus saw the bomber reaching into the backpack and "fiddle" around in there when the blast occurred.

[JDPriestly]

1. I always wondered if some of the 9/11 terrorists

did not know what was going to happen. It seems to me that it would be pretty hard to get that many people to decide to do a suicide bombing at the same time. Maybe I just don't understand their mentality. You'd think at least one of them would have gotten cold feet and given the whole plan away if they had known they were committing suicide.

[chaz4jazz]

2. I agree

They could have been told they were going to hold the passengers hostage until the blind Sheik was released from Federal custody - then - Whoa, we're gonna do what?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

6. Yes, hijackers probably did not know full story

The hijackers who guarded the cockpit doors didn't need to know the pilot's flight plan. They were trained to guard the door.

Given the simultaneity of the London bombs, they probably did not all turn them on at the same moment. They were probably told: meet at this station, take trains in four directions and then get off at such and such stop leaving your pack. However, probably three cell phone calls in quick succession detonated the bombs a few stops before. The fourth bomber on the bus is a mystery though and doesn't fit.

[eternalburn]

7. I thought cell phones didn't work well in the Tube....(nt)

[frylock]

3. many of the "hijackers" were known to frequent strip clubs and drink..

copious amounts of alcohol. Hardly the type of behavior one would expect from devout, fundamentalist Muslims preparing to offer their lives to the cause.


A number of the hijackers apparently drink alcohol heavily in bars and watch strip shows. On September 10, three terrorists spend $200 to $300 apiece on lap dances and drinks in the Pink Pony, a Daytona Beach, Florida strip club. While the hijackers had left Florida by this time, Mohamed Atta is reported to have visited the same strip club, and these men appear to have had foreknowledge of the 9/11 attacks. Marwan Alshehhi and Mohamed Atta are seen entering the Hollywood, Florida, sports bar Shuckums already drunk. They proceed to drink even more hard alcohol there . Atta and Alshehhi are seen at Sunrise 251, a bar in Palm Beach, Florida. They spend $ 1,000 in 45 minutes on Krug and Perrier-Jouet champagne. Atta is with a tall busty brunette in her late twenties; Alshehhi is with a shortish blonde. Both women are known locally as regular companions of high-rollers. A stripper at the Olympic Garden Topless Cabaret in Las Vegas, Nevada, recalls Marwan Alshehhi being "cheap," paying only $20 for a lap dance. Several hijackers reportedly patronize the Nardone's Go-Go Bar in Elizabeth, New Jersey. They are even seen there on the weekend before 9/11. Majed Moqed visits a porn shop and rents a porn video. The major of Paterson, New Jersey, says of the six hijackers who stayed there: “Nobody ever saw them at mosques, but they liked the go-go clubs.” Nawaf Alhazmi and Khalid Almihdhar often frequented Cheetah's, a nude bar in San Diego. Hamza Alghamdi watched a porn video on September 10. University of Florida religion professor Richard Foltz states, “It is incomprehensible that a person could drink and go to a strip bar one night, then kill themselves the next day in the name of Islam ... People who would kill themselves for their faith would come from very strict Islamic ideology. Something here does not add up.”


http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/searchResults.jsp?searchtext=Cheetah%27s&events=on&entities=on&articles=on&topics=on&timelines=on&projects=on&titles=on&descriptions=on&dosearch=on

[JDPriestly]

21. And they are well funded.

What if they are paid to take a little ride and end of dead.

[TahitiNut]

4. There's a lot about government-sponsored "conspiracy theories" ...

... that just doesn't make sense. :shrug:

[neweurope]

5. Ah, yes, those papers again. Were only their papers

found? How convenient. Or were the papers of other people found, also? How then does one know which papers indicate the killers?

-----------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Carolab]

9. Speaking of convenient, how about the exercises on the same day?

Exercises regarding bombing of the London subway system at those exact same locations were taking place that same day at the exact same time....

sound at all familiar?

**********************************************************************

http://www.visorconsultants.com/teamvisor_peter-power.html
http://argentina.indymedia.org/news/2005/07/307909.php
London Underground Bombing 'Exercises' : same time same places?
Por FPF-fwd.: Paul Joseph Watson & Alex Jones - Sunday, Jul. 10, 2005 at 9:34 AM
[e-mail] (Casilla de correo válida)

Al mismo tiempo? BBC: "At half past nine this morning we were actually running an exercise for a company of over a thousand people in London based on simultaneous bombs going off precisely at the railway stations where it happened this morning, so I still have the hairs on the back of my neck standing up right now."

Some friends send this concerning the bomb blasts in London, and the sound clip* is indeed a shocker.

London Underground Bombing 'Exercises' Took Place at Same Time as Real Attack

The fact that the exercise mirrored the exact locations and times of the bombings is light years beyond a coincidence.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/audio/090705exercise_clip_2.mp3

[chaz4jazz]

11. You're suggesting conspiracy planting papers of the accused?

I don't buy that. There were lots of papers, wallets, purses, etc. found on the blasted trains. One of the forensic investigations in the aftermath of the bombings was to pick through the debris searching for clues to the type of the explosives used, fragments of the containers carried, and IDs.

[muriel_volestrangler]

18. Lots of papers were found

but when you find the papers of 3 people from the same area of Leeds, with no apparent reason for being on trains and buses in the London rush hour, amongst the 50 or so who died, it's a lead. When they turn out to be devout Muslims, 2 of whom recently visited Pakistan, and you then see them on video together, with rucksacks, a few minutes before they got blown up separately, you have prime suspects.

[Liberal In Texas]

8. Earlier today someone posted this. And someone questioned the

significance.

I think it's incredibly interesting to know that the handler probably told them that "this is how you set the timer" and when they try it, it actually blows the package up.

Very interesting.

[chaz4jazz]

10. Oh, I didn't see that posting

somebody had the same thought I had. It makes sense to me that these young men would have wanted to plant bombs in the conventional manner - set them, drop them, take off - rather than suicides. I am beginning to wonder if some of the suicides in Iraq are young men thinking they are just planting explosives when they actually blow themselves up.

[Liberal In Texas]

12. Well, it makes sense when you think that 3 tube trains were blown up

and one bus.

The one on the bus MUST have been a bomber thinking, "What the F, I know I wasn't supposed to do this right now, but I'll just set the timer at this point, and when I get to the tube leave it under the seat..."

[chaz4jazz]

13. From another Post

Why did they buy return train tickets to Luton? Why did they buy pay & display tickets for cars? Why were there no usual shouts of 'Allah Akhbar'? Why were bombs in bags and not on their bodies?

THE London bombers may have been duped into killing themselves so their secrets stayed hidden.

Police and MI5 are probing if the four men were told by their al-Qaeda controller they had time to escape after setting off timers. Instead, the devices exploded immediately

<snip>

"We think it's possible they were told that when they pressed buttons to set off timers they'd have a short time to abandon the bombs and get away before the blast. Instead, the bombs exploded immediately."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=15742951%26met...

[Liberal In Texas]

14. I believe it was from the Guardian...If I can remember correctly...

yes, these guys were not true suicide bombers, but guys that thought they'd be ditching the bags and going home.

Fool them. Touch the "timer" and it goes off. It explains the bus. He wasn't to his tube assignment yet, but decided to set the "timer". Neat and elegant. No later captured bombers to spill the beans about who hired/recruited them.

The "handler" leaves by jet plane the day before. It makes sense. I read enough novels to think that that's what happened.

[daleo]

15. The practical problem with this idea

Is the difficulty that terrorist groups would have recruiting members if they routinely lied to them like this. It seems to me that organizations like this require a high level of trust. I have my doubts for this reason alone.

I don't think we have seen enough evidence on the London case yet to really know what happened. Nonetheless, suicide bombers are almost a commonplace nowadays. Something motivates people to do this, and it is better to attempt to address this than convince ourselves it is some kind of double-crossing within the organizations themselves.

[rzemanfl]

17. Isn't "routinely being lied to" our military's recruiting problem, not

theirs?

[daleo]

22. And we can see the effect on morale and recruiting there. n/t

[leftofthedial]

16. no way were they bona fide "suicide bombers"

if there is one thing the "terrorists" know how to do well, it's suicide bombing

and suicide bombs don't have timers.

[chaz4jazz]

23. British Intel now believes they were not suicide bombers

Commenting that it would be foolish to eliminate high value terror activists on a one-off job. Also, all participants purchased round trip tickets home.

[KG]

19. you've pretty much sussed it out.

[DemExpat]

20. I know that I am trying to find evidence that these young men were not

conscious of even being terrorists.....but a possibility it is to me...

DemEx


the story of the bomber who became agitated before blowing up the bus and was rummaging through his backpack with an alarmed expression on his face may indicate that he either had second thoughts or had just realized that he was about to become a martyr for Islam.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1631977#1633638