I'm glad lawmakers go after the video game makers

[cynatnite]

I have two children living at home. One is a 15 year old girl and the other a six year old son. We have a playstation 2 with four or five games.

I know next to nothing about video games except what I see when the kids play them. If we're looking at video games trying to decide what to get it's really hard to pick out of so many. Since I don't follow the gaming area I rely on descriptions and the ratings to figure out whether they are appropriate for my kids.

It's tough enough to wade through all the crap when it comes to buying for the kids as it is. Game makers market these directly to kids even though it may not be appropriate and parents like me need all the help they can get.

[ixion]

1. if you don't like the games, don't buy them

just because you have kids doesn't mean I should have to censored video games. ;-)

[lateo]

128. ding ding ding!

We have a winner...close the thread.

[ohio_liberal]

153. True that

Surely it's up to a parent to make the final decision in what games their children should play. I have 4 video-gaming kids. All it takes is some simple research on the internet to determine which games are acceptable. Why should I pass my responsibilities onto someone else? I can't imagine leaving the parenting decisions to some government agency or a warning label on a CD, DVD, video game, whatever.

[JackDragna]

2. Then go read magazines, look on the net and so on..

...and don't applaud the cabal of witless politicians making easy political points at the expense of the young. I have no problems with maturity labels, but that obviously isn't enough for the meddling types in our governments. It wouldn't take you any longer for you to figure out what was really appropriate for your kids to play on their systems than it would for you to check out the safety specs on any number of other things you buy for them, from clothing to food. I know damn well the nanny-staters don't just want tougher guidelines on games: they want to make certain games illegal and I will not stand for it.

[Callalily]

3. I don't want my government

telling me what types of games I can play. I'm thoroughly enjoying an on-line game right now, most likely one my IQ-deficit politico's are trying to censor.

[johannes1984]

4. yeah

I'm glad they're putting rattings on video games , making sure kids don't see violence before they're 18 that is .When the rep's 'll be glad to introduce them to some real time explosions and crap .

I'm sure that kids will have much less a negative influence on their lives from games with a little bit of flinging limbs , than they'll have of growing up in a dissillusioning education system , middleclass gone poor ,or leadership irresponsible .


C"MON PEOPLE < seeing violence does not turn one violent , it's not seeing moral(as in logic and philosophy ) that turns one violent .

But again i'm glad the people in washington are focussing on such filth as sex,fuck and gore in the world of digital entertainment , much better they fuck that up than something which actually matters .

[proud2BlibKansan]

50. Over exposure to violence certainly DOES

give an impressionable kid a twisted view of reality. A responsible parent can prevent that. But unfortunately, not all parents are responsible or even realize how much violence their kids are exposed to in media.

It really IS a problem. Ask any teacher. Watch any playground at recess. We have to spend a lot of time teaching kids to be critical thinkers and to distinguish fun and games from violence.

Please understand I think this is a parenting issue. But when parents don't take responsibility, who then does this task fall upon?

[johannes1984]

84. sigh

Yeah , i feel for you teachers ,you're going to have to right manier a wrong the irresponsible ones have brought upon their kids , and consequentially themselves .

But it is my belief , and i have been known to be wrong manier a time , that this violence and lack to see difference between play and it , is a result of more than just crude video games .


I wish you all the luck , and revise the above in that it's probably a thing of necessity .Mine was a concern that cracking down on the cruder elements would eventually penetrate the twilight of culture and expression .

which leaves me with another two questions

one , don't you think it's society and it's manners at large which is to blame ,and the failure of our leaders to adress this

und

This irresponsability , is it such a great problem , I have little experience with these matters , merely curious .I find it hard to believe , when it comes to kids , any large number could be irresponsible .I however find it easier to believe this irresponsability is the result of having survival and making a living drown out being responsible

[proud2BlibKansan]

105. I believe well informed parents can prevent a lot of negative influences

Story - several years ago, wrestling was all the rage. Many of our kids watched it on TV, wore the tshirts and had the toys. Steve Austin was more popular than Dr. Seuss. Wednesdays on the playground were insane. Kids were jumping on each other, starting fights, etc. Then we realized that the most popular TV wrestling show was on Tues nights.

I had one kid who never got caught up in all of this and I commented to his mother that I guessed she didn't let him watch wrestling on TV. She said oh no, they all loved it and every Tues night the whole family watched WWF together. I said really, you like wrestling? She said, no but don't tell my son. So this mother was smart enough to know what her kid watched and patient enough to sit with him while he watched it.

That kind of attitude is the answer here, not censorship, and not prohibition. Parents have got to take their role more seriously and be actively involved in their kids' entertainment. TV is NOT a babysitter. Homework is more important and should take precedence over video games. If we could just get parents to adopt that attitude, what we do at school would be so much easier. As it is, we end up doing far too much parenting and far too little teaching.

[johannes1984]

159. thank you

it's exactly what i had hoped .This is not the decadence or flaw of society , merely a lack of capability to parent , something which i hope will eventually be remedied .

and again good luck

[matcom]

5. "I know next to nothing about video games ....."

either educate yourself or throw the Playstation away. i just LOVE it that you want Congress to parent for you. :eyes:

gee, there are only about a dozen different Gaming magazines sold right in your grocery store that review and rate video games. pick one up, take an hour to learn what might be ok and not ok for YOUR children and stop relying on Joementum to decide for you.

:eyes:

[RPM]

10. amen matcom!

tell it like it is.

[DS1]

23. Because other than the fact that the game has a felony in the title

I wouldn't know it from Donkey Kong

:shrug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

48. Good advice

I would imagine there are also several internet sites with info on games.

I do understand this parent's dilemna though. And I know I am one of the ones who has applauded Hillary for speaking out about violence in video games. Please understand I don't want responsible adults to be prohibited from entertaining themselves in whatever manner they choose. However, by speaking out, if I get the attention of only ONE parent, I have accomplished something.

Sadly, I think there are many parents like this one who have no idea how inappropriate some of these games are. And you must admit, the video game makers market them for kids, not for adults.

[Occulus]

115. I DON'T understand this parent's dilemma

because it's far, far too easy to see them game in action before EVER picking it up. Someone's just fucking lazy, and trying to blame everyone BUT themselves.

"I don't know a thing about cars, but my kid wants a Ferrari...."

"I don't know a thing about TV, but my kid wants us to subscribe to Cinemax..."

"I don't know a thing about fantasy novels, but my ten-year-old son wants a copy of Temple of the Winds by Terry Goodkind...."

Oh, I give up. It's hopeless.

[proud2BlibKansan]

121. Well as I keep saying,

even when a parent decides to NOT buy these games, the neighbor kids will have it.

[msongs]

69. respect your children - dump the video games completely n/t

[OrlandoGator]

71. You don't have to buy magazines, just check reviews online.

Websites like ign.com have ratings and reviews for every video game.

[Name removed]

110. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cynatnite]

6. Here's a little info on why I'm glad Hillary is taking a stand on this:

Why a warning about the video game, Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas?
We have learned that explicit pornographic scenarios are available to players of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas. The player directs scenes of explicit sexual activity.

Do kids know about this?
One of the reasons we issued our parental alert is that we found directions to the pornographic material on popular teen websites.

What is “Hot Coffee?”
“Hot Coffee” is the name of the pornographic scenes. In the game, CJ, the lead character, is invited in for “hot coffee” by women after dates. It is in those scenes that the player can activate the pornography.

How did the pornography get into the game?
We don’t know the answer to this question yet. Either the game publisher, Rockstar, programmed the code onto the disk which was then discovered by avid gamers OR what is know as a “mod” was created by “modders” and downloaded over the Internet to be played with the game. Our computer experts are at work now to answer this question.

What about the rating?
This game was rated “M” (Mature) by the Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB). We always thought the game deserved an “AO” (Adults Only) for it’s graphic violence and brutal murders of women. The pornography certainly means that parents should consider the game “Adults Only.” If it turns out that the code is on the disk, then this raises serious questions about the whole ratings integrity.

http://www.mediafamily.org/

I do keep an eye on what my kids watch and listen to. I would be negligent as a parent if I didn't. I also am careful about what I buy them as well. That's not to say with the constant media barrage they aren't totally protected. Even as liberal as I am about a lot of things limits have to be there.

If it can happen with this video game, can it happen to others? The rating is misleading with this code that allows pornographic material onto the game. I would never have known about any of this were it not for Hillary Clinton coming out about it.

I'm not asking anything to be censored. Far from it. I'm asking for more power to decide what is best and not best for my kids. The best way to do that is with information more easily available. This is sneaky and underhanded, IMO. It promotes pornography to kids.

[matcom]

7. "I do keep an eye on what my kids watch and listen to...."

then obviously you keep an eye on what they DOWNLOAD from the Internet and INSTALL on your PC.

Hot Coffee isn't for your Playstation game, its for your PC VERSION.

you admitted up top that you do NOT know anything about what your kids are playing. now you claim you DO and you STILL want Congress to waste their time parenting for you.

again. :eyes:

[cynatnite]

15. right

:eyes: Like I need anyone to parent for me :sarcasm:

Not many people knew about this. Isn't it a good thing that at the very least people are made aware of it???

We do own PC games as well, you know. Sorry I wasn't specific enough.

[matcom]

18. so you needed Hillary to know what your kids are downloading from the web?

:eyes:

[cynatnite]

24. I don't give a shit who it was that came out

It could be fucking Santorum for all I care. If no one had said anything a lot of parents wouldn't know.

[matcom]

33. your upset with ME? you should be THANKING ME!

for it is MY tax dollars that are being used to educate YOU apparently regarding the MOST SCRUTINIZED video game in the history of video games.

but no, i have no problem with MY TAX DOLLARS being used to do that instead of less important things like civil rights, unjust wars, outsourcing of jobs, poverty, corruption, etc, etc, etc.... :sarcasm:

[proud2BlibKansan]

67. I want my tax dollars used to educate parents

I have absolutely no problem with that.

I am NOT advocating censorship, but education is definitely a role of the government. And I am grateful for the attention this controversy has given this game. It looks like there is at least one parent here on DU who has learned a few things about video games, thanks to the attention of the last few days.

[RPM]

34. yep - the gvmt should say something, then step the hell out

and leave the parents to acquit themselves of their rightful duties to their spawn.

[Eric J in MN]

8. Are your kids over 17? The game is rated 17+.

bt

[cynatnite]

16. Well, it was on websites which cater to teens n/t

[RPM]

21. cigarettes cater to teens

you dont let your teens smoke 'em, do you?

[cynatnite]

26. My six year old is toting on one right now

:sarcasm:

Now, try the real world.

[RPM]

35. you try the real world...

where you raise your kids instead of having congress do it.

:hi:

[cynatnite]

43. Okay, how did this get to me wanting congress to raise my kids??

We get informed and I'm glad I know so that means I want congress to raise my kids???????????

The reasoning here is just mind boggling.

[proud2BlibKansan]

76. And don't you have a problem with that?

Do you think the tobacco companies should be allowed to market to teens?

[cynatnite]

78. I was being sarcastic when I said that n/t

[RPM]

107. i do have a problem with it

but i refuse to put all the blame for teen smoking on them. As a parent, I have responsibility too!

[proud2BlibKansan]

116. I started smoking as a teen

and my parents were livid. They still are. So even though they tried, I still became a smoker. And I am old enough to remember cigarette ads on TV. Those dancing boxes (I don't remember the brand) were so cute!!

[Darwins Finch]

42. Say no more!

Your parenting responsibility ends right there! If it's "for teens", that's literally ALL you need to know!

:eyes:

Oh, and before you all start bitching at me again, I've raised three kids, including one with special needs. And amazingly never once did I need the government to intervene in the process. (I know, it's almost like I'm not really an American!)

[cynatnite]

44. I've got three kids, too

plus two grandkids.

I've never needed government to intervene. I prefer for the government to keep us informed. Isn't that better?

[Darwins Finch]

82. Yep

But some issues, like appropriate levels of profanity, violence, and sexuality in entertainment, vary widely between consumers. So the most you can count on government to do is to support ratings boards which provide at least broad guidelines for rating content. It's just too complex for them to regulate on a more case-by-case basis, especially when each consumer has their own idea of propriety.

It's a lot of work, but the final arbiter has to be you. And in cases where you don't feel you have enough info to go on, play it safe and give the product a miss. Just like you wouldn't eat food that you don't know the contents of, you shouldn't feed your kids entertainment that you haven't verified as "wholesome" as well. (Again, it's a lot of work, but as I said above, the grey areas are just to big for the government to effectively regulate. And the only other options is outrite censorship, which is not really a solution.)

[cynatnite]

97. I don't need the regulation

I just want the information. Video games, even with ratings, are marketed to kids. That's who they go after and they don't care what it takes to make the sale.

The flip side is that this whole thing makes this particular video game an even bigger seller so more people and kids can get the content they want.

The last time I looked at the video game section at the store I was just amazed at how many there are. The ones that looked interesting had ratings that indicated I didn't believe would be age appropriate.

The problem with this specific issue is it raises questions about how easy it is to modify these games plus I think they could do a better job on ratings. The ratings, I think, is a personal thing for me, but for others, they may be just fine.

I never bought SIMS because of all the crap that can be added that I heard about from a friend of my hubby's.

[Darwins Finch]

108. Regulation is all that's left...

...once the information reaches a certain point. As I was saying, they can only pass guidelines with a certain degree of granularity. For example, they can require a game to carry all the "flag" items that the ESRB (http://www.esrb.org/) checks for, like "Strong Sexual Content", but it's becomes difficult to go beyond that into more subjective criteria ("Contains Sexual Acts That Some People Are Fine With But Others Consider Horrifying"). At some point it becomes impractical to provide all the information that anyone might conceivably want, and in those cases the only alternate courses left are regulation or censorship.

When the ESRB guidelines first came out, they were hopeless vague ("Violence", "Sex"). But I think they're pretty good indicators now ("Comic Mischief", "Fantasy Violence", "Intense Violence"). And I don't know that they can get any more exacting without causing problems themselves ("Mom, it says this game contains 'Blowjobs'. What are those?").

So again I have to say, if you find the information given is lacking, then err toward caution. Better that then getting another nasty surprise. :)

[RetroLounge]

125. This is the same gov't that informed you of the need to go to war

So why would you trust them?

RL

[proud2BlibKansan]

60. And even when parents like you are careful,

you can't prevent what your neighbor buys for their kids.

Every single kid in my class of 4th and 5th graders has played GTA. Every single one can find internet web sites about this game. They don't all own it, but they all know someone who does.

This is why people homeschool. It's not because the schools are not teaching kids to read or to think critically. It's not because parents don't like the curriculum or think the teachers are incompetent. It's not because they want their kids to be indoctrinated with religion or the bible as part of their education. Parents pull away from public schools to get their kids away from negative influences, and the culture of the other kids in school. After watching more and more parents pull away from public schools and decide to homeschool, I am convinced this idea of wanting to protect their kids has more to do with this decision than the curriculum or the teachers or the schools.

[cynatnite]

101. You hit it right on target

Kids find out from other kids and half the time the parents don't find out until much later. We've been pretty fortunate in that regard for the most part.

[proud2BlibKansan]

113. My kids are grown now

but my eldest, at about age 10, befriended a kid whose dad was the Boy Scout leader. Nice kid, nice dad, two parent home. So when asked if he could spend the night, we said of course. We trusted these people. I even called my son's teacher and she assured me these were really good people.

A few months later, at Christmas, our kid asked for a gun. He said he wanted to shoot squirrels in the park. We had no guns, had not ever exposed our kids to guns, no violent video games or movies, etc. So we were floored. Turns out this nice kid's dad had a whole cabinet full of guns and when our kid had spent the night, the dad had decided to take the kids out shooting squirrels in the local park. And of course our 10 year old had the time of his life.

So you just never know.

[Name removed]

145. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RPM]

9. well i'm glad it makes your parenting easier...

:eyes:

i wouldnt want you to have to go do your own research or look at the sticker on the box that says what age group its appropriate for, or even (heaven forbid) say "NO!" to you kid.

Sorry - that's bullshit - since you had kids you are now on the hook for learning about these things and now waiting for the government nanny to do it for you. It's shit like this that gives us assholes like Rick Santorum.

[matcom]

11. ding ding ding

my friend, i think we have a winner

[cynatnite]

17. The stickers can be misleading

They don't always tell you everything you need to know. It's why there are so few games here at home anyway.

Damn, just because I'm glad I'm finding out new information about what's out there, I'm getting reamed over it. :eyes:

[Occulus]

147. and JUSTLY so, because you should have already KNOWN!

GOD!!

[tiredofthisstuff]

12. I'm am so tired of parents wanting everybody else to parent their kids.....

I have a daughter of that is 3 years of age. I know in the coming years there is going to be influences on her that I will have to monitor very closely. Video games will be one of them! To me this situation is no different then reading the nutritional value of a particular juice drink. You take the time to do it because you care about what your child puts into their body. The same would go for purchasing a video game, you take the time to do it. I do not agree with the argument "I don't have time to research that". Give me a break, if you don't have the time then don't buy the game.

Also on a side note: If you spent more time with your kids then maybe they wouldn't need to play video game as much and you wouldn't worry about it as much.

[cynatnite]

19. Pornography being catered to kids...no, I guess I didn't need to know that

:sarcasm:

[proud2BlibKansan]

73. I agree with you

wanting information is not a sign of weak parenting. Quite the opposite, in fact.

[RPM]

22. luv your screenname

appropriate

[proud2BlibKansan]

80. Wait till she goes to school,

comes home and wants something she claims every other kid at school has. Wait till she spends the night at a friend's house and sees a movie or plays a game you don't approve of.

Then come back here and tell us you don't want anyone telling anyone how to raise their kids.

[Darwins Finch]

13. Being reactive is reactionary

Try educating yourself better, rather than relying on government and/or dubious press sources to do it for you.

Start by understanding these points.

1) Games have ratings on them. Just like movies, really, except game ratings are more strict in some ways than movie ones. If the rating is unsuitable for your child, don't buy them the game. PERIOD. No excuses.

2) Understand what "modding" is. The material you are citing is about a "mod" (short for "modification") of a commercial game. That means that the original product has been modified by the addition of new code, in this case code to unlock content that wasn't intended for distribution. (Given the reputation of this particular company, you could say that they deliberately left the code in knowing someone would unlock it. But frankly, if your child has access to the game itself, you shouldn't have a problem with this additional content. Both are unsuitable for children, really.)

3) Be a parent. I'm sick of parents wanting to make the whole damn culture "kid friendly", just because they don't have the time or vigilance to do the job themselves. Here's a clue for you - if you don't have the time and energy to raise your children in a good environment, then maybe you shouldn't have had children. If you can't be bothered to spent ten seconds checking the labels on the games you buy them, I can only imagine what other areas of their development you're too busy to attend to as well.

I don't see how anyone who applauds the government for restricting people's choices in the name of simplify their own job as parent can call themselves a liberal. Sounds too much like the rhetoric of the cons to me.

EDIT - spelling

[sadiesworld]

14. "Here's a clue for you-if you don't have the time and energy

to raise your children in a good environment, then maybe you shouldn't have had children".

Pretty hateful little diatribe you have going there, eh?

Oh, and by the way, changing the word democrat to liberal IS NOT a spelling edit.

[Darwins Finch]

30. Way to selectively reply!

Pretty hateful little diatribe you have going there, eh?

Yeah, holding parents accountable is the very definition of spite and malice, isn't it? After all, it's not like I have to share the world with these irresponsible people and their poorly raised brood.

Oh, and by the way, changing the word democrat to liberal IS NOT a spelling edit.

A thousand pardons, oh master of the board! I was making GENUINE spelling corrections, and realised while in there that the word liberal better expressed what I was trying to say.

I beg thy merciful forgivance that I cruelly tried to deceive others through my villainous edit, which serves only to spread the deceit of Satan to the unknowing!

:eyes:

Sounds like I hit a little close to home with my original post, eh?

[RPM]

32. um, thats a legitimate grouse - most don't think about it AHEAD of time

it's empty advice after the fact, but people don't realize what a committment children are.

"kids - they practically raise themselves" - homer simpson...

[cynatnite]

20. Because pornography was made accessible to kids...

that means I'm restricting people's choices???????

Okay, explain that one to me.

on edit: Come to my home and tell me I shouldn't have kids. Don't you dare to make presumptions about me as a parent. I don't want my kids to have access to pornography. Where in the hell does that make me a bad parent!!!!!!!!

[Darwins Finch]

37. Try reading it again

Because pornography was made accessible to kids...that means I'm restricting people's choices???????

Okay, explain that one to me.

Because:

1) YOU are the one that made it available to your children. YOU bought them a game inappropriate for their age. YOU gave them unmonitored internet access, though which they downloaded a MODIFICATION to a product which IN ITS NORMAL STATE doesn't display the sexual content.

2) YOU are now delighted that government is going to crack down on the people who did all they could to keep the product out of YOUR hands (by affixing a ratings warning to the package as well as content descriptors and guidelines). YOU fell down on the job, but yet YOU are fine with the government restricting others instead of holding YOURSELF responsible.

How clearer do you need it. YOU messed up. YOU made this situation possible. And now YOU want someone else to clean it up.

What's next? Going to give your car keys to the kids and then bitch out the DMV for letting them have an accident?

EDIT - corrected the word "cleared" to "clearer" - is that precise enough now, sadiesworld?

[cynatnite]

40. No, I'm delighted in being more INFORMED n/t

[Darwins Finch]

45. If hope that's sincere

It would be a better thing for both society and your children if true.

[RPM]

46. riiiight - you think this is about information?

bullshit - they will regulate it 7 days from sunday to thump the drum about all the good they are doing. It NEVER ends at solely information. Dont be naive

[unblock]

66. in order to see the x-rated stuff, here's what you have to do:

my understanding is that the regular game doesn't have anything x-rated in it. you have to go to the internet and look up a particular "cheat code" from some gaming discussion board.

then you have to enter the cheat code into the game and play it and if you do certain things within the game, you see some x-rated sequences.

of course, while you were on the internet, you could have just gone to a different website, possibly by accident, and see a WHOLE TON of x-rated stuff. the only 'cheat code' you need to know for that is "yes, i'm 18 or over".


im not really opposed to the idea of have a LABEL on such games (although, frankly, it would only INCREASE sales) but honestly, i think we have many vastly more important issues.

[Occulus]

151. see my post, #145

that screenshot doesn't appear ANYWHERE in the game. It's from a mod that allows the player to spawn in characters into a map, and then pose them. In any way they want.

Don't you DARE complain about Half-Life 2 because of that screenshot. You have no right to do so.

[OrlandoGator]

25. If a game is rated "M" don't buy it for your kids. Simple.

By the way, it is mostly Democrats who are concentrating their efforts on censoring video games...which is sad.

[proud2BlibKansan]

86. But that will NOT prevent your neighbor from buying it for their kid

And unless you plan on locking your kid in a closet, he is going to go play with other kids at their house and with their games.

I applaud the Democrats who care enough about kids to want to protect them from violent media. It's certainly a more healthy attitude than repukelican war mongers who favor killing innocent kids in Iraq.

[gollygee]

155. Do you want to keep your neighbor from being able to buy thesevideo games?

It really sounds in this post like what you want is censorship.

[proud2BlibKansan]

187. No I just want to educate him

so he doesn't let his kids play it.

[gollygee]

188. What if he's educated about it and still lets his kids play it?

[proud2BlibKansan]

189. Well if they come to school and behave violently,

there are consequences. If they invite the neighbor kids over to play it, and those parents don't approve, there are comsequences. And if he over exposes his kids to inappropriate violence and they grow up to become violent criminals, there are consequences.

I bet you thought I would say throw the asshole in jail, eh? :)

The sad thing is the parent has the right to do this. And if he does, like I said, there are consequences. But as the teacher who may have to deal with his overly violent children, I wish I could persuade him not to let them play violent video games in the first place.

[CTLawGuy]

183. then tell your neighbor that you don't want your kid to play that game

I'm sure they will oblige for the time your kid is over the house. And if not, don't let your kid go over there.

[gollygee]

27. This is one of the reasons I got the Game Cube instead

maybe I'm naive but it seems like the playstation II and X-box have more of those types of games.

My daughter is only 3 now, but as she gets older I'll go by the ratings. I can't imagine ever getting a kid an obviously violent game, which is the game that had the sexual images as I recall, so I don't see why this would be a problem.

Are you wanting more than the ratings that currently exist? Isn't the game that had the sexual images already sold with an M rating? I don't get what more needs to be done.

[cynatnite]

29. I wish the ratings were more specific

We try to get some the whole family can enjoy and there are a few strictly for the kids.

A friend of ours has a PS2 and they have fives times the games we do. The last time we were over there the kids were playing and one of the games, I don't remember which, was rated 'T'. She saw that it had some racey images on it that she didn't approve of and took the game. She had no idea they were even on there and she is far stricter than I am about this sort of thing.

I just think they could do a better job of informing parents.

[gollygee]

31. So you'd buy a violent game so long as there was no sex??

If it's rated M for violence, which I assume the Grand Theft Auto games are, you would consider buying it, but if there's sex in it you'd want to know so you don't buy it? Am I misunderstanding this?

I'd rather a kid have a sexy game without violence personally.

[cynatnite]

38. Hubby thought a Grand Theft Auto might be okay for the older one

but the younger would want to play so we nixed the idea.

I can deal with a little sexy on the games, but it's a fine line for me. It's one of those 'I'll know it when I see it' kind of things. LOL

The violence is far more important, though.

Pornography is so easy to get these days as it is and I loathe the idea of it getting even easier and promoted on teen sites.

[OrlandoGator]

53. There are plenty of Rated M (age 17+) games on GameCube.

Killer 7
Splinter Cell
Mortal Kombat
Resident Evil 4
Prince of Persia: Warrior Within
Eternal Darkness
Metal Gear Solid

[gollygee]

56. Yeah but it seems like a lesser percentage

or am I wrong?

I would never buy a game with "killer" in the title. Or "kombat" or "warrior". And I wouldn't buy a game with a cover that was obviously violent. And I won't buy one rated M since my daughter will end up playing any games I get. That's enough to satisfy me.

[Big Lebowski]

28. Hysterical parents will be one of the downfalls of freedom

I can't count how many intrusive laws have been passed through based on "saving the children!" Insane drug laws, censorship, on and on

[RPM]

36. they already are

while the repukes protect little Tyler and Kaitly from videogames, Osama, and the evil frenchmen...

god i hate this fucking country

[cynatnite]

39. You'd think we can't chew gum and walk at the same time n/t

[RPM]

41. no - i t think folks are way too quick to trade freedom for security

people don't seem to care how many freeedoms they give up so long as they are fat dumb and happy.

"Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither"
- Ben Franklin

[cynatnite]

47. Who is trading?

It sure wasn't me. I screamed about the patriot act when it happened. Wrote letters everywhere and badgered my family until they said 'okay, the patriot act wasn't a good idea'.

INFORMATION. That's what it's about. It's about being informed. Isn't that what we here at DU bitch about? Corporate media does not inform the public and when they do, if it's not a subject or matter you approve of, you're ready to blow a gasket.

Rovegate, traitorgate or whatever you want to call it is getting so much play in the media that a person can barely turn on the news without hearing about it.

This took about five minutes on TV and a few newspaper headlines.

[Big Lebowski]

49. The information is available without having to rely on the government

There have to be thousands of web sites out there dedicated to video games and GTA specifically. It's incredibly easy to get the information. I get scared when politicians try to use censorship as a political tool, and even more scared when people support it.

[RPM]

51. agreed

it scares me too.

[cynatnite]

52. Yes, and even harder to keep up with them all

I'm still trying to get how being informed equates to censorship.

[RPM]

57. name one government agency that informs, but doesn't regulate

go ahead, give it a try.

maybe thats why Santorum is trying to kill the weather bureau...

[matcom]

58. good GAWD. HERE IS THE POINT

it is up to YOU, the PARENT, to be informed. NOT up to Congress to INFORM YOU

there isn't a SINGLE poster here so far who agrees with you. could it be POSSIBLE that you are WRONG?

we RESENT our lawmakers taking this role. it is a WASTE OF THEIR TIME AND OUR TAX DOLLARS. its political grandstanding and bullshit whether its Hillary or Santorum

its 100% bullshit and the fact that you LIKE it that they are using their offices to try and CENSOR entertainment is appalling.

look at the bigger picture and stop publicly worrying if your precious little tykes see a cartoon boobie.

[cynatnite]

61. Where am I saying it's okay to censor?

Can someone please point out to where I said, please censor this?

Oh, and it's not a boobie :eyes: It's PORNOGRAPHY being catered to kids.

[RPM]

well now that we are defining pornography, this debate is dead

"I know it when i see it"
- Justice Potter Stewart

[Big Lebowski]

65. Being catered to kids?

You mean with the "M" rating plastered on the box? The one you apparently haven't seen?

[matcom]

68. NOTHING about that game caters to "kids"

largest population of video gamers are something like 18 to 25 MALES.

that game has specifically NOT catered to "kids". if they are playing it then their PARENTS decided it was ok.

as for the porn, it is a MOD (MODIFICATION) that has to be SPECIFICALLY downloaded and INSTALLED

its YOUR FAULT if your kid does this. frankly if your kid has a computer in his or her BEDROOM its YOUR FAULT TOO.

if you have a computer with internet access, it should be in a COMMON area of the house where you can always SEE what little Johnny is doing.

if that isn't the case then yes, you are a negligent parent.

[JHBowden]

164. Good point.

Growing up, my parents always had the video games in the living room.

I don't see why Congress has to be everyone's nanny.

[Darwins Finch]

70. You're not saying "it's okay to censor"

But the politicians you're extolling are, or will be saying it soon enough.

And just to reiterate, it's not "PORNOGRAPHY being catered to kids", because the game is clearly marked as age inappropriate for kids. So they shouldn't be seeing it in any form, modified or not.

[Occulus]

154. See my post, #145 n/t

[Fozzledick]

181. Right here:

"I'm glad lawmakers go after the video game makers"

[proud2BlibKansan]

90. I am very much in favor of parents being able to make informed decisions

and I do not see this poster advocating taking your video games away from you.

So count me as ONE who agrees with her/him. I also applaud any parent who wants to be informed. Unfortunately, there are not as many in this category as you seem to think.

[gollygee]

114. Here is the information the poster already has

on the box this is listed alongside the M (mature) rating:

Blood and Gore
Intense Violence
Strong Language
Strong Sexual Content
Use of Drugs


What more information is needed?

[proud2BlibKansan]

117. I don't know

All I know is that kids DO play these adult rated games. So those stickers are not really working.

[gollygee]

124. How do you know they aren't working

the stickers are to inform the parents about what is in the game, not to keep the kids from getting them. Maybe the parents don't care? If they're informed but don't care, that doesn't mean the stickers aren't doing thier job, it means the parents aren't doing *their* job.

[proud2BlibKansan]

130. If the stickers are meant to communicate the fact that this is

ADULT entertainment, then they are not working.

[gollygee]

132. Being communicated and being followed aren't the same thing

their job is to communicate, not to force.

This warning along an M for Mature viewers rating:

Blood and Gore
Intense Violence
Strong Language
Strong Sexual Content
Use of Drugs


definitely does a good job communicating that the game is ADULT entertainment. People are choosing not to follow that.

[proud2BlibKansan]

139. And the solution for this is???

I honestly don't know.

[gollygee]

141. I don't know either but I think the warning labels are enough from

the government.

[proud2BlibKansan]

144. Maybe they are

I see parent education as the answer but there are those who feel this is too big brotherish.

[gollygee]

152. I haven't seen anyone say that parent education is big brotherish

I see people saying that the warning labels already give parents all the information there is - they are very complete. The only governmental thing left is to ban them altogether. If the government was to start banning everything it thought was bad for us, then *that* would be big brotherish.

[proud2BlibKansan]

166. There are a lot of folks who think it is

Libertarians come to mind.

There is also a group of parents trying to rid schools of counselors. They think their role (the counselors) is too intrusive.

Scientologists regularly protest at special ed conferences I attend. They want psychiatry out of education. I guess they think special ed teachers are watered down shrinks. :shrug:

[gollygee]

168. If people want the gov't that far out of their kids' lives

they need to homeschool. :shrug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

170. Some do

But like I said before, I think many people homeschool to keep their kids away from the culture of childhood in this country.

[Big Lebowski]

64. Don't be obtuse

Hillary was calling for a federal investigation into the game... this is not just about information. It's about creating more needless regulation.

The information that the game contains adult content is right on the box. The M rating. What more is necessary?

[cynatnite]

83. They do need to find out if the makers had anything to do with it

If they did they could get in a heap of trouble over it. That's the specifics of it.

[Big Lebowski]

87. Why? Why should they get in trouble?

Because there is a sexual scene in a game rated "M" where "Strong Sexual Content" is listed right on the box?

Why in the heck should that be investigated at all? There's only one reason: Trying to gain political points with hysterical, overprotective, lazy parents.

[RPM]

88. wow - you are almost as cool as the real Big Lebowski

i think i like you.

Welcome to DU :wave:

[Occulus]

156. It's not "IN" THE GAME

It's content buried deep on the disc, that's not accessible during normal play.

YOU MUST MODIFY THE GAME TO ACCESS THE HOT COFFEE SCENE.

This scene is NOT "in" the game itself. It must be unlocked with an actual HACK, *not* a "cheat code" as someone else here said.

See my post, #145.

[Darwins Finch]

59. I agree to some extent

Negative information IS suppressed a lot in the country, at least when in impacts one of two groups:

1) Whoever's in power.
2) Whoever's making a profit.

(Not to mention when 1 and 2 are the same people...)

So we get these hushed-up scandals about politicos, as the board is currently alive with. But I'll admit, we also get the hushed-up scandals about things that make money.

However, I don't think this particular case is a very good example of this. As I said before, I wouldn't put it past this particular company for sneaking this out there in an effort to get even more controvery and press coverage than they already get. But I maintain that this wouldn't be the big shockeroo either if it wasn't for people allowing this game into the hands of children, where it didn't belong.

Look at it this way - it's like someone discovered an "NC-17" scene in an "R" rated movie. Sure, it's a bit shocking, and inappropriate, but not as big a scandal as finding the same scene in a "PG" film. And what's happened here is that a lot of parents have bought this game for kids too young for it, and in essence have themselves created the "NC-17 scene in a PG film" situation themselves.

Sure, the industry could do a better job making the game ratings clearer. But a lot of what is considered "objectionable" is also down to the consumer. So really, the only safe course to pursue is the one where if you're not sure it's safe, don't buy it.

The kids will wheedle, cajole, and complain when you don't buy them the game, but that's what kids do. They do the same thing when you don't serve chocolate cake for supper, too. :)

[cynatnite]

77. You made some great points

But the bad thing is so much goes under the radar plus the information overload on the net and on TV. It's hard to keep up with. Sometimes it's hard to make informed decisions.

I would prefer not to have to worry about any of this stuff, but since I don't want anyone else to parent my kids except me I will continue to worry about what my kids are being exposed to.

I remember hearing years ago about a Disney more, I believe it was, that had a ten seconds or so of pornographic material inserted into the tape at some point. I thought it was outrageous, but never heard anything more after that. Thinking about it now I'm wondering if it was some sort of hoax.

Oh, and that last paragraph...it's funny you should mention that. Yesterday I was at Kmart and when I was looking for a movie, a little boy was on the floor screaming his head off about a game he wanted. The Dad just stood there and let him. :eyes: I heard the boy screaming his head off all the way to the register.

[Darwins Finch]

94. My solution

Is to live in a low media environment. :)

But mostly I stayed involved in the kids' interests. It probably helps that I'm a big kid myself, who loves video games and anime and current music. But also I made sure that they were encouraged to play their own games, instead of relying on the TV and computer to entertain them. I also channelled my own hobbies into things for them. (For example, I'm a bit of a writer, so I wrote a series of fairy tales for the oldest girl.)

Sadly, I think we're both suffering a bit from old-timers syndrome, in that the world of our children just seems so much more hectic and saturated that ours did. But my mother thinks my world was like that too, and it seems pretty sedate to me. :)

Ultimately you won't be able to mediate everything in your children's lives, and that's probably a good thing. And I know a situation like this particular one is upsetting. It's like you were guarding the front of the henhouse, and the fox snuck in the back. But really, I expect it'll just be a blip in their development period, and you'll have much bigger things to worry about in the future.

So just play it safe and err on the side of caution with your future purchases, and save your energy for the big fights that makes the world better and safer for everyone. Heaven knows there's enough of those to go around now...

:thumbsup:

[Darwins Finch]

100. Oh, and about the Disney thing

That's a mix of urban legend and sophmoric humor. People claiming it happened to someone they know are usually spouting the urban legend, but I'm sure some people out there have actually done this, i.e., taped some porn onto a rental copy of a Disney flick. At least one stand-up comic had a routine about this as well, which probably facilitated its spread.

Fortunately, such a prank is much harder with DVDs, so you don't have to worry about this particular bugbear much anymore. But like most things that the media scares parents with, it was ever only about 5% reality to begin with.

[Occulus]

157. you are VERY wrong in your anaolgy

"Look at it this way - it's like someone discovered an "NC-17" scene in an "R" rated movie."

No IT IS NOT!

It *is* like someone snuck an NC-17 scene into and R rated movie and then invisibly embedded that scene into other information on the disc or tape. Then, the only way to access it would be to MODify (there's that word again) your player so you can access that video, which isn't normally even visibleduring regular playback.

The Hot Coffee scene is not viewable during unMODified gameplay. The end user has to MODify the game to get to it.

See my post, #145. GTA is NOT alone in being able to do this!

[Darwins Finch]

169. Misunderstanding

If you read my other posts, you'd see that I was one of the first respondents to point out that this material is only viewable as a mod. (I write video games, so I know a little bit about the technical side of this.)

My analogy was an attempt to explain the IMPACT of the content to the OP, not necessarily to draw an exact parallel to the STRUCTURE of the content. I was trying to tell the OP that the unlocking of this content was the equivalent of adding an NC-17 scene to an already R movie, but that due to parents placing this game in the hands of kids, it had the IMPACT of adding an NC-17 scene to a PG film. (In that it reached a much more inappropriate audience. I am definitely not saying that the game could be considered PG in its pre-mod form.)

We're on the same side here. I'm sorry if my attempt to make one point clearer only made another murkier. :dilemma:

[Occulus]

184. Sorry- I can't reitorate enough times that

this isn't ordinarily available, and that an end user created the mod itself.

I didn't mean to sound like I was jumping on you; it's just that there are too damn many parents here who simply do not understand what a mod even is. I just made a seperate thread to try to explain this to them, and why they can't do anything about it.

Sorry for the confusion. I'm very angry at these clueles parents, as they're going to end up doing serious damage to the industry, and just not care about it, because they and their kids just won't play them in the first place. But, in their zeal, they'll keep the rest of us from writing mods in the end, out of sheer ignorance and foolish, self-righteous outrage.

In other words, for the most part, they're a bunch of clueless fools who don't know what the hell they're talking about.

[gollygee]

62. The game you're talking about already has an M rating

what more information do you want? I haven't heard specifically what more information you think is necessary other than, "This game isn't appropriate for anyone younger than 17 or 18." Your child is younger than that so it seems like it did in fact give you the information you needed. You just chose not to follow that information.

[Fozzledick]

182. Apparently not without getting permission from congress first

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cynatnite]

55. You must've missed ALL the other posts when I said otherwise n/t

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cynatnite]

85. Apparently, you think you've judged me as a parent

when you've completely misjudged.

I'm talking about age appropriate material here. Parents can educate and inform their kids quite nicely, but still work to keep inappropriate material as much as possible.

With the overload of information all over the place these days it makes it hard to keep up sometimes. The more information I have as a parent makes it easier to do my job. I can inform my kids in a way that is best for them.

Again, I'm being attacked because I like to be informed.

[matcom]

91. in your OP you stated you know next to NOTHING about video games

and they are obviously a part of your child's life. so, if the label fits....

[Big Lebowski]

72. I'm holding the GTA:SA box in my hands right now

It has an "M" rating on both the front and back. On the back, it also lists the adult content in the game:

Blood and Gore
Intense Violence
Strong Language
Strong Sexual Content
Use of Drugs

Instead of regulation, maybe we should give classes to help illiterate parents who can't read the back of a video game box.

[gollygee]

74. I hope the OP clarifies how that isn't enough information

Because it looks like PLENTY.

[matcom]

75. that isn't good enough

i need public officials to tell me what that all means :sarcasm:

[proud2BlibKansan]

93. You are well educated and informed

But trust me, you are in a minority group in our society.

[gollygee]

106. How well educated and informed to you have to be to know that

A game with this warning on it:

Blood and Gore
Intense Violence
Strong Language
Strong Sexual Content
Use of Drugs


Will have sexual and violent content?

What additional information do the stupid people of the world need beyond that straightforward and descriptive list?

[proud2BlibKansan]

118. Like I have said over and over in this thread,

kids DO play these games. So we are obviously not doing enough.

[Darwins Finch]

120. But HOW are kids playing these games?

The stores aren't supposed to sell them to the underaged kids. The kids don't have jobs to earn to the money to buy them. So there's really only two ways they can be playing these games:

1) The parents are buying them the games.
2) They play them at the houses of their friends, whose more permissive parents bought their own kids the game.

If it's the latter, then you need to talk to those parents, just as you would if their kid had shown your kid a Playboy magazine.

If it's the former, than it's your own fault.

A sticker on a box doesn't have the power to keep a kid away. A parent does. So where is the failure occurring?

[proud2BlibKansan]

127. It is #2 I believe

And therein lies the problem. It is a matter of setting a community standard. It is very much like bicycle helmets. In some neighborhoods, every kid wears one. In others, kids are teased and discouraged by their peers from wearing them.

In our neighborhood as my kids were growing up, we set standards. Video games were in their infancy then and we knew which neighbors allowed violent games and which did not. We knew who had cable and who had HBO and who watched their kids and who did not. We were all picky about where our kids played, whose houses were off limits and we knew where they would be safe. We knew all this because we were involved and watched our kids like hawks. That's really all it takes.

[Darwins Finch]

134. In that case

there should be a level of mutual trust between yourself and the neighbors at whose houses you let your kids play. Obviously if you trust them enough to watch your kid in safety, you should have a good understanding with them about lesser matters, such as what kind of games they play.

I still don't get how this is the failure of the game ratings, rather than of the parents involved. If your kids are being exposed to the game due to your libertine neighbors, then why are you letting your kid spend time with them in the first place? That seems just as irresponsible as placing the game in their hands yourself.

I dunno, maybe I was just more involved than others seem to be. :shrug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

137. All I am saying

is that kids DO play this game. Lots of kids. So somewhere our system or parents are failing to protect our kids.

My kids wouldn't have played it. But I can't control other parents.

[Big Lebowski]

146. The flaw in your logic is that "our system" needs to protect our kids

From video games. That kind of thinking leads down a dark and draconian path of censorship. There's no possible way to make sure that no kids are playing GTA, except to ban it so that it can't be made anymore.

If parents did a better job of teaching kids right from wrong, this wouldn't be an issue. I snuck into R-rated movies as a kid, but since my parents were good parents, I didn't become a psychopath.

[proud2BlibKansan]

161. I do believe our system has an obligation to protect kids

and so do many others. Hence, we have child abuse laws today we did not have when I was a child. We have a movie ratings system which keeps kids out of R rated movies in theaters. We have FCC standards that keep porn off many of our airwaves.

The sad reality is that not all parents take their role as seriously as yours did. So many kids who see R-rated movies ARE affected by them, even if you weren't.

[gollygee]

165. There is nothing to prevent someone buying an r-rated DVD

and your kids seeing the movie at their house. Or an X-rated DVD at someone else's house for that matter. Or pornographic magazines at someone else's house. Or tons of things you don't like. Should our system prevent that in some way? And if so, how?

[proud2BlibKansan]

167. If kids are exposed to graphic porn

that is considered child neglect. If any kid in my class came to school and told me he was being allowed to see graphic porn at home on a regular basis, I would hot line that.

So yes, there are laws in place to protect kids.

[gollygee]

171. If this game is graphic porn than that law is already

in place in this instance as well.

[proud2BlibKansan]

172. It doesn't sound graphic to me

But I have not seen it.

Even so, I don't think it is appropriate for kids.

[gollygee]

174. But legally it's in the same realm as an r-rated movie

which also isn't appropriate for kids. And you have no control over another parent buying it and letting their kids watch it. And if their kids show it to your kids, you still have no legal control.

What's the difference between this and video games and what should be done for video games that isn't done for dvds?

[proud2BlibKansan]

178. I can control sending my kids over to those houses to play.

And if they do go over there and are exposed to something I find inappropriate, I can certainly pick up the phone or knock on the door and have a discussion with that parent. Don't need the government to do that. :)

[gollygee]

179. Then you and I have the same solution

:)

[proud2BlibKansan]

180. Yes, as parents

My role as a teacher requires me to do a few other things. :)

[Darwins Finch]

148. That's my point

You say "But I can't control other parents." Fine. But you should be able to TRUST them.

That's what I don't understand. If you don't trust these other parents enough to maintain a decent environment for your child when s/he visits, then why do you trust them with your child AT ALL?

I'm not trying to be argumentative. Rather, it just seems to me that there needs to be better communication between the parents. If they all share in the burden of educating each other about various hazards, whether it be inappropriate video games and strangers prowling the area, then no single parent need become overwhelmed with the tasks.

That's what a community is supposed to be about, and I think you need a genuine community to cope with these issues, rather than relying on mass media or government intervention.

[Occulus]

158. You can't stop modders, though,

and I laugh at the very idea. See my post, #145. You have no power to stop us from modifying these games.

Stop thinking you can. You can't. It's just that simple.

We can have a game that has NO violent, or sexual, content, but DOES ship with editors, and *poof* someone WILL create violent and/or sexual content for it. You can't stop that, and you have no right to try.

[Darwins Finch]

173. I know you can't

Nor would I want to. I like free game content too much, for one thing. :)

But then, I don't see anywhere where I said we should, or should even try. I maintain, as I have throughout this thread, that the onus is on PARENTS. The industry is doing what it can, but somewhere along the line, the parents aren't, and politicians are playing up to the less diligent among them to cover their slack with unneeded laws.

[Occulus]

185. It wouldn't surprise me a bit, though,

if they went after the very ability to mod games. It would be just like them to do so.

We can't have end users creating objectionable content and then making it freely available, now, can we? :silly:

[proud2BlibKansan]

163. I already said

I didn't let my kids go to play with friends whose parents were not vigilant.

[Darwins Finch]

175. Good (n/t)

[gollygee]

129. Kids will always play the games

that doesn't mean more needs to be done. It isn't the government's job to do what parents choose not to do.

What more would you do? I'm still not hearing specific solutions.

[proud2BlibKansan]

131. Parent education

is the answer. As a teacher, I try to keep my parents informed. I have already printed out a copy of an article about this hot coffee addtion to GTA and will send it home the first week of school.

Beyond that, I don't know what to do.

[gollygee]

136. The game already has an M warning

and already has strong sexual content, according to the warning label.

If a parent has read that warning label and has *still* chosen to buy the game for his/her children, will knowing about an additional objectionable part of this game make that same parent decide the game is not appropriate for children? Progmom said that one of the points of this game is to beat up hookers, and no one is complaining about that? I'd be more bothered by that then some simuated cartoon sex.

I'm frustrated about this, but not with you. I'm glad you're sending out the information but I don't understand why parents would read the warning and buy the game for kids in the first place.

[proud2BlibKansan]

142. You would be amazed by the dumb things many parents do

I get to see it every day. It is getting more and more frustrating. We clearly need to do lots more to educate parents.

[Big Lebowski]

135. There's only one way to make sure no kids are playing these games

And that's to ban the games. Kids WILL get their hands on these games, regardless of any regulations. Just like porno magazines, beer, and R-rated movies. How did any of us ever survive before The Government made sure we'd never see anything questionable?

[City of Mills]

81. Game ratings and what they mean

http://www.esrb.org/esrbratings_guide.asp

This site gives a summary of the different game ratings. ;-)

[sweetheart]

79. Time to learn about common sense

Why don't you learn something before spouting off?

I recomment that you investigate "computer" video games, as they are
inherently more complex and powerful learning tools for children.

Then there is common sense. It is unhealthy to sit too close to a
television for too long. Children need to interact with their
environment and other kids and stuff to socialize. If they play the
games too much, it is unhealthy, just like any other addiction. It
is even worse, IMO, to watch TV, as it is NOT interactive, and the
mind just turns to jello.

The sophistocated games are outstanding learning tools, and brilliant
ways for kids to explore and enjoy the benefits of a generation of
technology.

There are 2 ways to deal with a new technology, the luddite way of
misunderstanding it and seeking to banish it from your life, and the
progressive way, of embracing it, learning about it and exploring how
it can help ones life.

I recommend that you do some investigation on good strategy games for
kids on a computer, and then buy and play them yourself... it will
open up a whole new avenue for interaction with your kids, that
suddenly the parent turned out not to be a schmuck and decided to
get hip to life in 2005.

[cynatnite]

89. Duh...common sense does prevail here

The problem is when not everyone else plays by the rules which may have been what happened with this game.

Also, things do get under the radar that not all parents are aware of. It happens so easily now that it makes it harder to make informed decisions.

[RPM]

95. wow - that sounds like conservative logic

"It happens so easily now that it makes it harder to make informed decisions."

Yep - thats the cornerstone of regressive conservatism - badmouth ho hard things are "now".

Step 1. State that the new modern way is hard
2. create a pining for "the way things were"
3. Offer up politicians who want to return to "traditional values"
4. Attack piddly shit morals issues to impress those supporting the "old way"
5. Enjoy life long job security in politics...

that's how they work - and shit like this is how they are enabled.

[Big Lebowski]

98. I can see how this game got under the radar

I just took a webcam picture of the box... I can easily see how you might think this was a fun, happy-go-lucky game in the vein of Super Mario Bros. The government MUST DO SOMETHING to make sure we are informed! More laws please!

[matcom]

99. just like PacMan

except "Inky" wears a thong, has a Brazilian wax and likes to "go down"

[gollygee]

111. I shouldn't have bothered responding to this

How on earth could someone be suprised that a game with a warning like that isn't appropriate for young people?

[gollygee]

109. Under the radar?

The game you're complaining about has an M rating and this listed with the warning:

Blood and Gore
Intense Violence
Strong Language
Strong Sexual Content
Use of Drugs


How is that under the radar?

[progmom]

112. in this game, you get money by beating up hookers

i can see how you would be more offended by simulated sex.

[proud2BlibKansan]

96. For decades now, researchers have told us that

too much television viewing by preschoolers has a negative impact on brain development. But how many parents pay attention to this or are even aware of it? How many parents continue to use TV as a babysitter? How many more TV programs aimed at preschoolers are on the air today than, say, 10 years ago?

As one who has spent years working with kids and getting to know their parents, I can assure you that common sense among parents is becoming rare these days.

[sweetheart]

104. The effects are so open ended

I realized as an adult, that i had been programmed since childhood to
think i "understood" what human relationships were based on the
entertainment i saw on television, and not reality.

This is not to mention having bad eyesight from a young age due to too
much television... and having a culture rotted out by it.

If i ever have another young child in my household, they'll have to get
used to no television, none. The endemic paradigm of watching television
is that of "being entertained". In the middle ages, this might be a
few times a year when a travelling musician and/or an acting troup came
through town. But in those ages, entertainment was more interactive,
that people sang with the musician and laughed when the actors handed
them a prop.

Television, however is a vegetable mind control device, and horribly
dangerous, horribly, to program deep in to the subconscious of young
children the "id" frames of western society, when these should come from
their loving parents instead.

[proud2BlibKansan]

119. Agreed

But there is a lot of valuable programming.

We chose to not have cable when our kids were growing up. It was a sacrifice, but we took parenting them pretty seriously. And now that they are grown and we do have cable, it would be mighty hard to give up.

[two gun sid]

92. Video games and the USMilitary both directly market our kids.

These politicians that go after video games are total whores. They act like they are tackling a tough problem and yet, in reality, they are doing nothing but wasting time and money.

I'd much rather they spent their 'political capital' on reducing the deficit, ending the war in Iraq, catching OBL, creating jobs, strengthening education, etc.

When they prove they can do those jobs, then, I'd be happy to hear them weigh in on video games.

[ThoughtCriminal]

177. Now there's one that needs some hacking

:evilgrin:

Let's get a version that shows what it's REALLY like.

[Misunderestimator]

102. What next? We go through our public libraries rating literature?

What would Anais Nin rate? Hemingway? Gertrude Stein? But we must save our children from reading about sex and violence!

I had no idea that this is what Hillary meant by "It takes a Village"... well, I refuse to be part of this village. :eyes:

[wmills551]

123. Take a deep breath

Rockstar is getting around an Adults Only rating on GTA by hiding pornography in GTA and then acting surprised when it is accessed. They market this adult entertainment on shows and magazines watched/viewed by adolescent. I don't think that our government looking into this cynical manipulation of the existing rating system is really the last step taken before outlawing access to Gertrude Stein.

[Misunderestimator]

126. You lost me at "Take a deep breath"

:eyes:

[name not needed]

138. Rockstar didn't hide anything.

Someone from the Netherlands modded the game, and put it up on some website. Find out what you're talking about before you start dispensing uninformed bullshit.

[wmills551]

149. The modifier in the Netherlands says the content was there

All he did was unlock it, Rockstar refuses to comment directly on this. You sound a little naive.

[Occulus]

160. He had to create codfe to unlock it

We're NOT talking about an "XXOXL1L1R2R2" key combo here. We're talking about actual code.

You don't have a clue what thsi really entails, do you?

[wmills551]

176. So we agree

Porn content was placed in GTA by rockstar and unlocked by mod. With actual code!

[Occulus]

186. You still don't get it.

The *content* was there, but not in the game. It required a mod, written by an end user, to unlock it.

You appear to be against modding itself. After all, this would never have happened if someone hadn't modded the game in the first place, right?

[progmom]

103. I would prefer to see lawmakers get tough on so many other things

I really don't see how this is worth their time or our tax dollars.

I take full responsibility for the things my son is exposed to in my house.

[JHBowden]

122. Don't punish me because of the NEGLIGENCE of others!

If people are not taking the time to see what games are appropriate for their children, they could make the problem easy by not letting them play video games at all. But instead they want to punish the majority that doesn't have a problem with video games.

This is asinine. What ever happened to ***personal responsibility???***

[RPM]

133. amen

i want my porno, cigarettes, booze, and violent video games!!!!

To hell with all of you moral value poops who are abridging my freedoms!

[wmills551]

143. How would you be punished ?

Would changing the rating of a game like GTA to adults only to reflect the true content of the game punish you in some way. Would limiting the shows where GTA could be marketed punish you? I don't understand.

[JHBowden]

150. Look what a crackdown entails.

Some want to make it a crime to sell a minor violent video games. When I hear Democrats talking about the "threat" video games pose to the "moral health" of the almighty god known as "society," one can only imagine what the next step is.

[In_The_Wind]

140. parents need to preview their children's purchases

far too many parents give their children money without supervision and then cry *foul* when the child makes a mistake in judgment while mommy or daddy are preoccupied

[mconvente]

162. actually...

It's not that tough. It's called pro-active parenting. I'm sure you have 10-15 minutes to go to ign.com or other gaming websites and look at pictures and read reviews of the games. As been said here a ton - if you don't like the games, don't buy them.

[Moderator]

190. Locking

This has become a flamewar.

DU Moderator.