There's Something About Hillary.

[mtnsnake]

She's different from the rest, period.

A combination of all the following reasons is what I believe sets her apart from any other candidate we currently have:

1) She's calculated. This lady is always 3 or 4 moves ahead of the game, unlike some of our other candidates, *cough cough*, who were usually 10 moves behind.

2) She's dynamic. Unlike so many of our other robotic candidates, this lady is as robust as they come.

3) She's a great speaker. This intelligent person has no trouble coming up with the right thing to say when shoved into a corner. Her intelligence may be her top virtue.

4) She's battle experienced. She's been through it all already, and she's weathered the storms, always coming out of them even more popular. There's nothing new...no shockers...that the right wing can come up with on her. Anything they try will be old news.

5) She's ballsy. She doesn't allow anyone to push her around. Mess with her and she'll respond.

6) She's well-known. It's not a bad thing to be so familiar to every person in the country. When Hillary talks, people listen.

7) There's something magical about her when she campaigns. I saw with my own eyes how she got so many people to flock behind her, even in my own evenly divided area of rural northern NY. I've never seen so many signs in front lawns of Democratic, as well as many Republican, households as I did when Hillary ran for Senate.

8) Last but not least, she has the ability to trivialize idiots like Rush. She'll shrug them off with a brief condescending remark and a chuckle. When it comes to slimy right wing radio hosts, Hillary has the uncanny ability to educate Americans about them with just a few choice words, a sarcastic little smirky smile, and some well-placed body language while she's burying them. She won't dwell on them, but she won't ignore them. They have good reason to fear her.

[Wetzelbill]

1. Can't argue with that

I like Hillary. Not sure if I'll vote for her in the primaries yet, I haven't nearly made up my mind on who to support. for another year or so on all that.

[YEM]

4. Agreed.

She is by far the best candidate AS OF NOW.

[wakfs]

2. Allow me to add one to the list

9. She's another Democratic subsidiary wholly owned by Corporate America.

No thank you.

[sendero]

36. Don't forget...

... nobody will fire up the Republican base like Hillary.

[cyberpj]

48. I understand your problem - but my response, at this point, is

that unless a candidate is somewhat supported by Corporate America, they don't have a chance in hell of getting elected. Not at the Presidential level.

Does this need changing?

Yes.

Will it change in time for the next elections?

No.

So be careful who you toss out because of that one for now.

[wakfs]

99. Problem is...

...if we don't start challenging the power of the corporatists now, they will only get more powerful (if that's possible).

Not challenging them in the next election only gives them more power, I believe. By backing Hillary, who is obviously gunning for the big corporate dollars, one at least tacitly supports the status quo.

Bottom line, I don't trust her. I believe she is too beholden to the corporatists and will be even moreso if she becomes prez.

[Captain Hilts]

3. Moral fortitude does not require ownership of "balls." (nt)

[KnowerOfLogic]

84. Thank you. Jeezus Christ i wish that expression would die. nt

[Algomas]

91. I love that expression...

It consider it a compliment, especially when applied to women. It is a respectful recognition of personal strength.
After all, having balls of brass or balls that rattle like castanets is a rare thing and worthy of admiration.
Especially if you can throw em over your shoulder like a Continental soldier and can tie em in a knot, tie em in a bow.

[Captain Hilts]

94. It implies being female, is not enough for mental fortitude. (nt)

[vi5]

5. I'll be honest....

I don't like her. Never have. Not for the same reasons the wingnuts do. The thing is, I think she's quite the opposite of a lot of the things you listed.

She strikes me as having the same flaws as Kerry and Gore did: pandering to their critics rather than confronting them. Whereas someone like Dean (and I was no Deaniac) confronts his critics and doesn't change his style when he's criticized, I think Hillary does. She gets presented as this uber-liberal in the Ted Kennedy mold. But she runs away from it by trying to be more centrist than the next guy. I'm not saying she shouldn't be pragmatic, but it doesn't come across as pragmatic to me, just desparate and pandering.

And I'm neither a radical leftie who demands all candidates or politicans pander to every single issue that I feel strongly about, nor am I a mealy mouthed centrist who wants everyone to get along. I'm a solid liberal, with solid liberal beliefs, who likes politicians who have independence but who also understand the fact that what we have and what we need is a unified democratic party. In fact to me, the person who fits the description you gave above is not Hillary Clinton but Harry Reid. And this is coming from a rabid, pro-choice person who was ridiculously skeptical of Reid.

[Wetzelbill]

7. did you read the Washington Post article on Reid

He's an interesting guy. Pretty tough too really.

[vi5]

9. I didn't but I know a lot of his background...

..and I've seen what he's done (or should I say tried to have done but had difficulty due to gasbags like Biden and Leiberman trying to shove their way into the spotlight).

[Wetzelbill]

15. Here it is if you want to check it out

It's worth looking at. I didn't realize he was that interesting of a guy.

Land Of Hard Knocks
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/16/AR2005071601279.html

[dalaigh lllama]

14. Harry Reid

I like him, too, for the same reasons you stated.

One problem (not for me,tho) is that he's not as "charismatic" as people have come to expect. Ever since Reagan-the movie-star, people seem to want "American Idol" as president -- someone to drink a beer with. I heard some young kid on TDS the other night who said Kerry just wasn't as exciting to be around as Bush. I would much rather have a president that knew what he/she was doing and have that beer with my friends while cheering them on. I doubt someone like Lincoln could get elected today, he just wasn't cute enough.

Problems with Reid or Clinton running: can we afford to lose any more democratic senators?

[Pepperbelly]

16. Hillary is up for re-election in 06 ...

She is safe in 08.

[vi5]

17. I'm not saying Reid for president...

I'm just using him as an example of what I consider to be a good democratic politican in 2005. Especially compared to someone like Hillary who I consider to be the opposite of someone like Reid.

[iamjoy]

21. I Don't Like Her Either

I respect her.

I don't think she's a good speaker, she seems robotic to me. I don't think she comes across as genuine or warm.

She is a skilled political player, knowing just when to come out strong as a Liberal and just when to play like a Conservative. She knows when to shine as a strong feminist, but can play the Tammy Wynette "stand-by-your man" too. But I don't think Conservatives are buying her shift to the right, although some moderate voters might be.

She lies. Most politicians do, but sometimes Hillary gets caught and this would make her a liability.

That being said, I don't dislike her. She can be very funny (the whole shoe bit with Tucker Carlson was great) and she is very intelligent. I like a lot of what she stand for when she isn't trying to pander to the right wing. But, I would not work for her in the primary.

[laura888]

45. Exactly. I agree with your assessment of Hillary

You want an example of balls?

John Conyers.

[Oversea Visitor]

6. Worth a consideration

if she can deliver a surplus like her hubby did hey.
God knows US do need to recover.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

8. She's a politcian with all the ethics of a hungry piranha.

DLC, say anything, do anything, be anything, to advance her ambitions.

But, she is a great advertisement for voting Green should she be nominated by the republican wing of the Democratic Party.

Not only would I never vote for her, I'd actively work against her.

[mtnsnake]

12. Unlike you, I'd support anyone who could deliver a knockout blow

to the current criminal regime. If they're running on the Democratic ticket, they automatically get my vote, even if it's someone like Joe Liebermann, who I hope doesn't get any consideration.

Hey, your reasoning that "She's a politcian the ethics of a hungry piranha" is one more reason to believe she'll do whatever it takes to unseat the current corruption we're living under now. Add that to her list of strong points!
;-)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

19. Oh good! The "not as bad" argument.

It's worked so well in 2000, 2002, and 2004.

[sendero]

37. If I thought she could win..

... I'd be in support. I dont' think she can. She will rally the Republicans into an apoplectic fit. She will GOTV for Repugs like no Republican ever could.

She is hated by a wide swath of Americans, for no good reason IMHO but what's reason got to do with it - this is politics.

If Hillary is the best we can do, I give up. There is no hope left for the Democratic party.

[Pepperbelly]

13. how do you know this?

That is 100% right wing, Newsmax, Drudge, and Limbaugh bullshit. They say it all the time and I sure hate to see it parroted here. Do you actually have some evidence about this or are you merely repeating what you've heard?

IOW, tell us exactly what you base your observation upon --that she will say/do anything to "advance her ambitions." And differentiate that evidence from the same fucking right wing talking point used against both Gore and Kerry.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

18. Newsmax, Drudge and Limbaugh thinks she's too rightwing?

Saying that she's too right wing is a right wing talking point?

She voted for the war.
She supports the occupation.
She's cuddling up to the pro-preggers saying that we have "common ground" with them.
She's palling around with that other DLC'(R) Lieberman fretting about sex.
How about her swanning around Iraq and talking about "the failed insurgency"?

How's that? As for Gore and Kerry, they both pandered to the right also. Remember the great goose safari to win the NRA redneck vote?

[Pepperbelly]

27. That isn't what you said in your post ...

what you said was that she would say or do anything to achieve her agenda, whatever that is. So how do you know that?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

52. I gave you examples of her pandering to the right.

Did I mean that she would peanut butter covered cockroaches? Probably not. But, her willingness to support rightwing policies is a bit disturbing, don't you think? Do you really believe that she is doing so out of conviction?

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[jsamuel]

92. LOL, look at all those deleted messages, LOL

:rofl:

[Wetzelbill]

65. Kerry strangled a duck with his bare hands!

:)

I added nothing to this at all.

[LincolnMcGrath]

10. Clinton - Kucinich 08

:hi: Dream Ticket!

[lvx35]

11. Hllary's part of the family, but she has work to do.

I have so much admiration for Hillary when people like Bush are in the picture. However, I think she needs to grab onto the breakaway "radical" dems, people like Clark or Dean. There's a real picture of a broken democratic party, with folks like her and Kerry on one side and the grass roots dems on the other side. There is no way I would vote for her for president unless she had Clark or somebody like that as vice. I want to see her with our people, I want to see unification before I can get behind her. I want to see pictures of her and Dean/Clark, NOT her and Lieberman talking about things.

[ScamUSA.Com]

20. 9) She has no chance of being President

as brilliant and connected as she is

Senators dont become president

[Kahuna]

26. There's more to Hillary to just being a senator... She was

acknowledged by everyone as being a co-govenor and co-president with Bill. She has plenty of executive experience. She has more executive experience that every candidate that ran in 2004.

[Pepperbelly]

28. Perhaps JFK would've like to known that so he wouldn't waste his

time running.

[ScamUSA.Com]

29. hillary not equal jfk

Sorry, but I want a candidate that actually has a chance of winning.

NOT ANOTHER PATSY

[Pepperbelly]

30. so now you shift your ground from ...

one of "a senator cannot win" to Hillary sucks. What do you base your opinion regarding whether she can win upon?

[ScamUSA.Com]

31. not shifting, double whammy

Tell me that Sen Clinton will do better as a nominee than Sen Kerry? thats just not logical

[Pepperbelly]

32. why isn't it?

She has a better track record at stuffing the wingnuts crap right back at them rather than sitting around and waiting for their kinder natures to prevail. Kerry, as good a guy as he is, after securing the nomination, allowed the right wing lies and smears to simmer for most of the summer of 04. He made fatal strategic and PR blunders in so doing.

[ScamUSA.Com]

33. yep Kerry sure messed it up

Personally I just think that if Clinton is the nominee its an automatic loss.

A winning nominee, to me, will have to be a strong Dem governor that conservatives could possibly vote for.

Clinton will cause EVERY republican to crawl out of their holes and vote for their candidate.

[Pepperbelly]

35. bullshit ...

There is nothing magical about the Clinton name except that it pisses off the Repubs but I truly believe that they come after every one of our nominees with everything that they can. Hell, they make up shit about all of them. These bastards will never vote for a Democrat anyway so fuck them. I hope it does piss them off.

[wisteria]

69. Nonsense! Kerry fought back!

What election were you following? kerry answered the SBV with days, ann everything was rebuked. The MSM keep playing it up even while it discredited it. Gee, at least kerry has actual military experience to run on,wheres Hillary's?

[Pepperbelly]

71. no, he did not.

He let it ride all summer while he vacationed. His surrogates were useless.

[mtnsnake]

74. He did???? Kerry SHOULD'VE fought back against those

SBV fuckers, and he all but ingnored them until it was too late! It was one of MANY fatal mistakes he made in that horrible campaign.

[wakfs]

101. Not necessary

Since JFK was actually the LAST sitting member of Congress to be elected to the presidency (and that, thanks to his dad's uh, connections).

Recent Prez Losers

2004: Sen. Kerry
2000: Former senator Gore
1996: Sen. Dole
1988: Former Sen. Mondale
1976: Former Rep. Ford
1972: Sen. McGovern
1968: Sen. Humphrey
1964: Sen. Goldwater

[zestfolly]

22. http://www.hillaryclinton.com/

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/

[JHBowden]

23. Hillary is also difficult to directly attack.

Vocal smear campaigns against her can easily backfire, making Hillary look like the victim and gaining even more support.

On the other hand, a Hillary candidacy will put GOP fundraising and activism absolutely in overdrive, so she better be on her A-game if she wins the nomination.

[cynatnite]

24. I like Hillary

As politicians go, she's one of my favorites. Like any politician they do pander to their base. That's just how it is. Most of them do.

I think she's got style and is hard-nosed. I like that she's so hated by the RW nutjobs. There isn't a thing they can do to her. They already tried it all.

If she runs for Pres, I'm with her all the way!

[Wetzelbill]

66. She outworks everybody else and she's tough

That makes her a dangerous candidate.

[Kahuna]

25. Right on all those points. I can't see any reason why she shouldn't run..

It's not as if our male pols have been producing any results.

[BooScout]

34. I'm far left of Hillary but I WILL VOTE FOR HER

She'll get my vote and a lot of others who are left of her. She's been moving to the center for years, just as Bill did. She's doing it because she knows in the long run it will get her elected.

I am a person who has pushed for the Democratic Party to push more to the left so we have a more clear choice of issues & candidates (and selfishly because my own agenda is to the left). But when it comes to picking a candidate to knock the GOP off their pedestal.............it's going to take Hillary. She's smarter than all of them. And she will win if she wants it.

[mtnsnake]

38. I think your post is very accurate

and I appreciate your sense of loyalty to the Democratic Party if it's a choice between us or them.

I'm not pushing for Hillary so much because I'm positive she'd make the best president of any Democratic candidate, but because I think she gives us the best shot at winning of any Democrat we currently have.

I like General Clark the best, but I think Hillary has the best shot at delivering a KO punch to the Republican party in '08. She's a great planner, a great speaker, and extremely intelligent. She's also loaded with charisma, something that's almost mandatory nowadays.

[SaveElmer]

79. Right on!!!

She is on our side 95% of the time...if she is on the opposite side of me 5% of the time, and that helps her get elected...it's ok by me.

[wli]

87. far, far left of Hillary as well

Clark sounds like a solid alternative as far as collecting votes. Regardless, when it comes time to vote the neofascists out of Congress and to vote out whatever remnants of them remain in the White House after PATRIOT/RICO/treason/etc. charges come down, I'll be voting strategically, i.e. Democrat.

[Must_B_Free]

39. I don't like Hillary

sorry. She doesn't give me a feel good feeling. May be because all of the controversy already surrounding her.

[mtnsnake]

41. I can understand that, but who do you like that gives you a better feeling

as far as being a stronger all-around candidate who you think would have a better chance of winning than she would?

[radwriter0555]

40. she's a republican. why bother?

seriously? She and bill have sold their souls to the GOP and are now worthless traitors.

[mtnsnake]

43. C'mon, that's not true and totally unfair.

With some people, it seems that anytime some Democrat makes a move that's not to the extreme left of center, he or she gets labeled unfairly as being a Republican. Great.

[radwriter0555]

49. Know what? ANYONE who sided with HITLER was NOT rewarded and senator

clinton would serve herself well to remove herself from any, ANY alliances with the bush regime. It's not her POLITICS that I don't like, she's semi-=okay, its her and bill's whoring with the bush regime family members that makes me puke.

I have NO respect for ANYONE who plays patsy to the bushistas, the clintons INCLUDED. No quarter and fuck fairness.

These fuckers in the white house are evil, evil and EVIL. ANYONE with a brain and any balls curries no favor with these evil, criminal people...

You would do far better to assign your alliances to true American politicians who LOUDLY proclaim the criminality of the bush regime like SENATOR BOXER and NANCY PELOSI.

You want to back REAL politicians with YOU in their hearts? Back those two women.

Forget the clintons, they're sell outs.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

53. My heart goes with Boxer and Conyers or Waxman. That would be my ideal

ticket.

I find that the threads concerning Hillary are very polarizing and the fangs are out at anyone who says boo about her.

Well, boo! She's my Senator and has yet to win me over, and I know that I will be flamed again, but I swore not to vote for her ever again because of her Support of the war. I had many arguments with people about the fact that I believed there were no WMDs and meanwhile, with all the evidence, she pushed that there was. Those people whom I argued with used her as an example. If she was married to Bill, she surely would know if there were or if there weren't. I don't trust her as far as I can throw her.

[Pepperbelly]

50. you cannot just make stuff up here ...

What you posted does not conform to reality. I am trying very hard not to impuign you or your character but GOd damn it!, you shouldn't just pretend that your own opinion is a fact. It is not.

Neither Hillary nor Bill Clinton is a Republican. Both have done far more for the Democratic Party than any group of 10,000 Bill and Hillary haters.

[SaveElmer]

78. Hillary has an ADA rating of 95...

Or is the ADA some right wing hack group now too?!!!

[Vinca]

42. She's not my favorite Dem, but I agree with what you say.

Going after the smarmy video game people was a savvy move on her part politically speaking (although I'm sure her motive is to protect kids from porn). If she's the candidate in 2008 I wouldn't have a problem supporting her.

[goclark]

44. One of the great political speakers of our time!

IMO. she is riveting!

I saw her speak in Orange County, CA last fall.

She absolutely commands the stage, she is a magnetic force that makes you believe that she is telling you the truth.

I never saw Shirley Chisolm in person but I believe she is that kind of forceful.

Everyone in the audience was hanging onto her every word.

When we left,my thought was, " I thought Bill was the politician. She runs circles around him!"

Don't count her out folks,she knows how to play both ends and she may be getting friendly with all those clowns like Biden ad Joey L.but she, IMO, wants to be the 1st Woman President and that is OK with me.

[Catherine Vincent]

46. And most of all.....

She's married to the Big Dog!!!!!

[globalvillage]

56. Although I'm not in the Hillary for President camp

I do like her as senator and think she was a great first lady.
It really pisses me off when repubs, who think it's unAmerican to disagree with the white house, have no problem trashing a woman who was first lady for 8 years and who serves her country still. She may not be my choice for president, but she is a patriot, and someone who deserves the respect of the country. She is a smart, honorable and gracious woman, and I admire her.

But the reason for this post is that I'm really curious what Bill might be saying to Hill that's making her bite her bottom lip.
From the look on her face, it must be something good.

:blush:

Great picture.

[journalist3072]

47. You hit the nail on the head!!

The reasons you listed are those why I believe Hillary will be an excellent candidate, should she decide to run in 2008.

I especially agree with the "battle tested" part. They've already called her everything but a child of God. There's not much else anyone can say about her.

Also, she doesn't wait forever & a day to respond to allegations. When the Gennifer Flowers story first broke during the 1992 primary, she was right on it, preparing for battle.

She will not make the mistakes John Kerry made w/ the Swift Boat liars.

[atomicdawg38]

51. Never...

Sorry, I would never vote for her. She comes across as phony, cold and calculating. She stands for nothing, supporting whatever position will benefit HER at a particular moment.

[GetTheRightVote]

54. Does seem to take over the room when she marches in, hmm

:kick:

[undeterred]

58. And behind this great woman

is a pretty amazing man.

[Wetzelbill]

64. He's a charismatic sonofagun

Hillary probably can't get away with playing both sides the way Bill could, because Bill is just Bill. That's why all these guys who try to copy his centrism can't win elections, because really he was the only one who can get away with it. He just has special political skills. Not that she can't win it though. She's definitely capable.

[wisteria]

70. I don't care what she has, she comes across as phony.

Pandering to what ever side she feels has the upper hand. She wants to be president for all the wrong reasons. No thank you. One Clinton in office was enough, lets move on-please.

[mtnsnake]

76. One Clinton in office was enough? Huh??

Geez, you don't like him either? What's up with that?

Anyway, back to the subject of this thread...Hillary...if coming across as phony is your biggest complaint about her, well that's pretty much the same across the board when it comes to any politician.

[Pepperbelly]

80. How do you know she has the wrong reasons?

In fact, I am not even certain that she wants to be President. How can she have the wrong reasons to want something that there is no real indication that she does?

[Chicago Democrat]

75. No!

I want someone else!



I don't know who yet. Hillary is too calculating! I don't like her cause she is too conservative, number one.

[mtnsnake]

81. Hey, at least you gave a viable reason why you don't like her.

As far as reason number one, "she's too calculating", I see that as a definite positive. By being calculating she doesn't leave herself wide open to making the fatal mistakes of some of our past loser candidates. Plus she's always a few steps ahead of things.

As far as being "too conservative", that's a good reason for sure not to like her, but she's NO WHERE near as conservative as many of her naysayer here make her out to be. She might be conservative by some of our standards as liberals, but she's not like some neocon or anything. Far from it.

In a perfect world, I'd want some tree-hugging environmentalist elected as my next president, but in this fucked-up country I'd gladly settle for Hillary if it means putting an end to the corruption we presently have. She's putting on a more conservative act for sure in order to WIN, but once elected, I think you'd see a much more liberal Hillary Clinton running things.

[Chicago Democrat]

83. I'm a Democrat first... I will enthusiastically support our parties

candidate no matter what.


Mainly I want a GREAT PRIMARY AND VICTORY!

[Psyop Samurai]

77. By all means...

...let's feed their "studio wrestling" diversion.

God knows nothing real's at stake. :sarcasm:

[SaveElmer]

82. Exactly...look at the Joe Klein book for evidence...

Of all the right wing hack jobs that have been written against Democrats, it is the one against Hillary that has backfired the most. The story isn't about Hillary, it's about Klein and his backers...Hillary ends up looking better. This is no accident, she knows how to marshal her defenders to attack her opponents. Of all the Democrats who may run, she is the best at dealing with these attacks.

[eridani]

85. She voted for the war and the PATRIOT Act

Nope. Sorry. No way.

[wli]

86. that one clinches me, too

Boxer and Pelosi it is.

[Jane Austin]

88. I wish she were a better public speaker.

To me, her style is too stilted.

Also she has a bad tendency to go for the gaffe. Like saying "Gandhi, down at the gas station" and it seems like she did another one a week or two ago.

[hiphopnation]

89. she's polarizing alright

as evidenced by this thread.

i dunno...a vote for this war...how could she?

[KG]

90. There's Something About Hillary running for pres. that make me wanna

vote third party. :) :hi:

[jsamuel]

93. I don't like her support behind censoring/banning video games

Do you ban R rated movies because adults can buy them tickets? No.

Do you ban video games (rated M so children can't buy them) because adults can buy it for them? Yes, according to her and Joe Liberman.


I hate that...

some think this is pandering to the right, i just think it is wrong...

[mmonk]

95. And given to be a type of weathervane

when we need a rock.

[MadHound]

96. And then there is something disturbingly the same about her too,

Mainly that she is another corporate whore, part of the two party/same corporate master system of government, willing to sell out her constituents and the rest of the country all in order to acquire more of that corporate lucre. And that, my friend, overrides whatever other percieved positive traits that Hillary has.

Sorry, but what we need in this country is real change, not more of the same ol' same ol' good cop/bad cop routine. Hillary, nor any other politician who takes corporate cash, can fill that bill. And until we start electing politicians who aren't more beholden to their corporate masters than their constituents, this country of ours will continue its inevitable slide into corporate fascism.

I've played that game of lesser evil for over thirty years now, and all that it has gotten us is the Second Gilded Age, where it doesn't matter which party is in power for the rich continue to get richer while the poor get poorer. I refuse to play that game anymore.

[hiphopnation]

97. Inspiring words.

Thanks. :thumbsup:

[mtnsnake]

98. Trouble is, America isn't ready to elect politicians like you mention

This is a really fucked up country right now, and there is no way the majority of citizens will elect the kinds of candidates that you, me, and most everyone on this forum likes. That's the sad truth.

Hillary may be a "corporate whore" in yours and others opinions, but at least she would be a start...a new beginning. We have to start somewhere, and if she's the most powerful politician we can muster up to defeat the current fascist regime, then so be it. I'd take Hillary Clinton any day of the week and twice on sunday if it means the only alternative to what's going on now. If attracting mid-stream voters is what it takes for Democrats to get a win, then so be that, too.

At this point, I honestly don't care WHO the fuck it is that wins in 2008, as long as it's not a Republican AGAIN.

[MadHound]

100. And buying into that meme is what keeps this country in chains

People have always stated about third party and non-corporate candidates that they like such candidates, but they are unwinnable choices, so we must settle for the lesser of two evils. And thus, here we are, compromising our way right over the brink of that cliff into hell.

Yeah, I played that game for three decades now, and quite frankly the average American has lost more than they've gained with that compromise strategy. Sorry, but that just doesn't fly anymore friend. One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, yet expecting a different result every time. Thus we see that we're engaged in a collective form of insanity, compromising time and again, hoping for something different every time, but each and every time getting screwed. Over the last thirty five years we watched the average Americans real wages go down, the gap between the rich and the rest of us grow to a record breaking chasm, corporate control of our government expand by leaps and bounds, while checks for corporate abuses go down. Hillary represents nothing more than that same ol' same ol'. She doesn't represent a new beginning friend so much as she represents a continuation of the status quo, another act in that mummers play of good cop/bad cop where corporate America wins while the rest of us lose.

The Democratic party is deep in the pockets of corporate America, and stigmatize and shun the only candidate they had in the last election who didn't take corporate money, Kucinich. With the entire ranks of liberal voters in ABB mode, you don't think they would have voted for him over Bush? Please friend. Same thing with the '08 election upcoming. The entire left of center is ready, willing and able, along with many moderate Republicans, to put ANY left of center candidate into the White House. Why does it have to be another corporate candidate like Hillary? Why not put in somebody representing real change, who isn't beholden to corporate cash? The voters are ready for it, thus the conclusion must be that the party leadership isn't ready for it.

And answer me this friend, what real change is Hillary going to bring about? She's all in favor of the war, so that isn't a change. She's all in favor of the Patriot Act, so that isn't going to be a change. She is very much in the pocket of corporate America, so that isn't going to be a change. So what real change will Hillary bring about? A kinder gentler screwing for the average American, while our jobs continue to hemmorage out of the country, as we continue to fight this deeper and deeper into this illegal, immoral quagmire known as Iraq, and watch while the country's debt continues to soar, along with the riches of the well off. Sorry friend, but I'm looking for real change in this country, not faux change. And apparently, I'm in the majority, since most eligible voters don't vote out of sheer disgust at the lack of distinction between the partys and the candidates.

That is the telling number friend, that most eligible voters don't vote. They've dropped out simply because they perceive little real difference between the two majors. And guess what, they're right. So just maybe, in order to regain power, the Democratic party should offer them a real difference, ie a candidate who is beholden to the voters, not the corporations. Gee, what a novel concept, following the plan that our forefathers laid out for us so long ago.

[ecstatic]

102. Thanks for this! Tired of Hllary bashing

She has gotten on my nerves a few times, but I support her wholeheartedly for President in 08. I mean, who are the other credible candidates? Kerry? HELL no!