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Some more from the Clark Republican speech:

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Julien Sorel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 03:08 PM
Original message
Some more from the Clark Republican speech:
But we're also extremely vulnerable. Our economy--we're using three times--we've got three times as much foreign investment as we're investing--capital flow--as we're putting out there. They're investing here because they believe in us. We're using energy like it's going out of style. We're using five to eight times as much energy per capita as people in the rest of the world, twice as much as even the Europeans. We're vulnerable to security threats--everything from terrorism to the developing missiles that are--we know rogue states are developing to aim at us.

And so I think we have to have a new strategy, and we have to have a consensus on the strategy, and we have to have a bipartisan consensus, and politics has to stop in America at the water's edge. We've got to reach out, and we've got to find those people in the world and share our values and beliefs--and we've got to reinforce them. We've got to bring them here and let them experience the kind of life that we have. They've got to get an education here. They've got to be able to send their children here. They they've got to go home. And they've got to carry the burdens in their own lands, and to some extent we have to help them.



This was before 9/11. That wicked, wicked, evil man. That PNACer in disguise. That crypto-Republican. How dare he have the same message today that he had 3 years ago. He's just a shady opportunist. And how effing dare he, bring up the topic of energy conservation to a roomful of Republicans. This is a man whose values place him someplace to the right of Rush Limbaugh. If politics were fishing, Clark is the little fish that we should, by damn, throw back into the ocean! We're too good for him.

'Go Howard Dean! That's the one we want!'

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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. neocon global hegemony
"We've got to reach out, and we've got to find those people in the world and share our values and beliefs--and we've got to reinforce them. We've got to bring them here and let them experience the kind of life that we have. They've got to get an education here. They've got to be able to send their children here. Then they've got to go home. And they've got to carry the burdens in their own lands, and to some extent we have to help them."
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returnable Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. You'd prefer we build walls?
I don't know if I agree with your world view...

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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. no walls
I'd rather not focus on spreading the reach of American values and beliefs abroad. Indeed I believe that American values and beliefs are the problem. I believe that Americans would be well served by going to other places in the world and experiencing the kind of life others have. Get educated abroad. Send your children abroad. Then come back to the US and help carry on the burden of being an American. Let others help us out to some extent.

Helping "them" out as Clark envisions is no help at all. Its arrogant and disrespectful. America has more to learn from the world than it has to teach the world.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Helping "them" out
has been American foreign policy since Woodrow Wilson...

If it's arrogant and disrespectful than FDR, HST, JFK, LBJ, JEC,and WJC have been arrogant and disrepectful...

I want to get this criminal gang out of office and export what's best about America-individual rights and the rule of law....
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. regimes of law
http://www.twnside.org.sg/title/political.htm

Globalization, a political and not simply an economic question

by Chakravarthi Raghavan

Geneva, 8 Aug 2001

* * * *

The major regimes of law implicated in the on-going processes of globalization mainly concern those related to international trade, investment and finance and, broadly speaking, they fall within the rubric of International Economic Law, which is primarily concerned with the principles and institutional mechanisms that undergird developments within the international economy. Some basic questions that arise are: Does a liberal regime of international trade, investment and finance especially that espoused by the dominant proponents of globalization always foster the promotion and protection of human rights? Is there a necessary synergy and mutuality of support between increased international trade, investment, finance and human rights? Are there situations in which the two regimes may conflict?

There is a general misconception that the two regimes of law exist in pristine, self-contained isolation. However, the same entities (states) have created and adopted the norms and standards of the two bodies of law. It is thus necessary to ensure that there is greater coherence between the two. Answers to the questions are not clear cut. On the face of it, International Economic Law has largely not paid much attention to International Human Rights, and vice versa.

* * *

he regime of law concerned with the promotion and protection of International human rights is itself not free of problems. Despite assertions about the universal character of human rights, several issues remain outstanding whether of a conceptual or an enforcement nature. Thus, the insidious categorization of international human rights law continues, despite the Vienna Declaration’s proclamation on the indivisibility, interdependence and interrelationship of human rights, and the considerable work by the CESCR in clarifying this category of rights. Sometimes couched in terms of implementation, resources, or their alleged non-justiciability, the net effect has been to downgrade the importance of economic, social and cultural rights while paying lip-service respect to civil and political ones. Secondly, the enforcement mechanisms of international human rights remain weak and perfunctory, unless there is an overriding interest of a political or economic nature that is driving the action.

Against the background of these tensions, the problem remains that some countries have not benefited from the new developments in the global economy. Neither have many individuals in such countries gained from the increased attention to international human rights.

The last decade has witnessed numerous countries especially developing and least developed ones (LDCs) adopt all the basic tenets of a liberalized economy, including free exchange rates, reduced regulations on prices and markets for goods (including farm produce), and the dismantling of trade and financial barriers, all in the name of deriving maximum benefits from the processes of globalization.

But, as brought out in UNCTAD’s most recent report on LDCs, most of the poorest countries’ economies have still fared badly, some even worse than before liberalization, partly on account of dependence on a single cash crop, insufficient donor support, and the intervention of wars and coups, and even further to the very conceptualization of the policies and programs of liberalization. There is thus a problem with both regimes of law. It is fairly obvious that resolving the tensions and bringing the two regimes of law closer together will be no small task.
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DemExpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Going abroad, getting an education abroad is exactly
what Wes Clark has done in his life.
I believe he would like Americans to be more open to other viewpoints as well.

Interaction and co-operation is what the world and America needs, and Clark knows this IMO.

DemEx
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. During The 00
Edited on Fri Sep-26-03 04:12 PM by DemocratSinceBirth
debate Al Gore advanced the Wilsonian approach to foreign policy; that America should export democracy....

Of course neither Gore nor Wilson said it should be at the point of a bayonet....


And Chimpy said "we should be a humble nation" and "not engage in nation building"

Oh, how the worm has turned....

And the PNACERS want to do it at the point of a bayonet....
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CMT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. You're right about one thing
Howard Dean is the one I want.

By the way Dean has gotten some impressive Republican support in New Hampshire:
http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/Main.asp?SectionID=25&SubSectionID=354&ArticleID=89839
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Julien Sorel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Hey, he's had Karl Rove's support for ages!
Edited on Fri Sep-26-03 03:25 PM by BillyBunter
Karl's Republican. In fact, that's where that quotation came from.
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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. LOL!
n/t.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. Do you have any evidence that Rove prefers Dean?
IIRC many Democrats were happy when Bush fucked over McCain, because we thought he was too much of an idiot to win and that the voters would see that.
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DoveTurnedHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Rove Was Quoted During Some Parade or Event Where Dean Was
Saying, "That's the guy we want," or something like that. It got good play, I want to say in the NYT, but I'm not sure about that.

DTH
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Here is the proof that Rove prefers Dean... how soon we forget....
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. A major issue yes
but I hadn't seen the proof. Thanks for the link.

I still think that Rove doesn't know what fire he is playing with on this one.
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
6. Other than the decent comments made by Clark ....
I have no idea what you are trying to say .....

Is this semi-sarcastic ???? .... then semi-not-sarcastic anymore ????
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Julien Sorel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Those two paragraphs are the heart of the speech -- they
Edited on Fri Sep-26-03 04:16 PM by BillyBunter
define Clark's political ethos. Want to know what Clark's about? It's right there, before he was in this race, probably before the thought of running even seriously entered his mind. He's essentially non-partisan at heart, which he has said all along. But you have people here claiming he's a crypto-Republican, a fifth column PNACer, and all sorts of other nonsense, when he has a huge body of work out there that screams otherwise. But all that gets left outside and ignored, while they pick at bits and pieces trying to put the puzzle together the way they want it to look, instead of the way it really does look. It's totally insane and illogical, but it's par for the course for some of these loons.
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. Calling those who disagree with you 'loons' is hardly the way...
...to win hearts and minds.

- Conservative Dems will probably vote for Clark...but a 'liberal' wouldn't go anywhere near him.
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
9. Maybe I'm too naive and understanding
But anyone able to reach out to Republicans is a great and necessary strategy. As bad as they are hasn't their party been hijacked by the wrong bunch of goons and it's going bad aexcept for cronyism and favors building into a backlash?

The others talk to business groups and Republicans as well even though it is pretty much like Bush asking the UN to bail out the occupation.
You need more than this text to see where he is selling a sellout on the issues to win over true believers in PNAC. He can't anyway without arousing the vigilant anger displayed in this post.

Politics. But do our candidates have a clue that bipartisanship is for suckers when it comes down to choice for the other side? It is permissible to worry and watch. If this speech really resonates with Repugs then Bush is fallen even with all the fraud and nmedia and money in the world.

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boxster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
10. Billy, Billy, Billy....
You were doing so well until the Howard Dean comment.

Hehe. Just kidding.
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